May 1, 2024 - PBS NewsHour full episode

AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

On the "NewsHour" tonight: Police clear an occupied building at Columbia University and violence erupts at UCLA, as campus protests over the war in Gaza intensify.

AMNA NAWAZ: New details in former President Trump's own words about what he would do with a second term in the White House.

GEOFF BENNETT: And in a rare interview, the top U.S. commander in the Indo-Pacific region discusses efforts to counter China.

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO, Commander, U.S. Indo-Pacific Command: They continue to be more aggressive in a variety of areas.

They're challenging the current international rules to benefit an authoritarian society.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "NewsHour."

There were arrests again today at a number of college campuses after protests led to heated confrontations between demonstrators and law enforcement.

AMNA NAWAZ: The decision by college officials to call in police and when to do so has been debated in a number of states.

Arrests played out dramatically on television overnight in both New York and Los Angeles.

But they are by no means the only ones, and many don't involve students.

Demonstrations at UCLA took a turn overnight, as clashes erupted at an encampment of pro-Palestinian protesters, when counterprotesters began dismantling plywood barriers around the camp.

MAN: Oh!

Somebody just got ambushed.

AMNA NAWAZ: Demonstrators kicked shoved and hit one another.

Fireworks and pepper spray were deployed.

It's unclear by whom.

Police were eventually able to separate the two groups.

By morning, a calmer scene, but all classes were canceled for the day and many students were left frustrated.

EDGAR GOMEZ, UCLA Student: Things are not going well.

People are, like, angry at each other, lots of tensions going on.

I just hope things could get resolved, maybe some negotiations going on.

Who knows what will happen, but I just hope things get resolved right away.

AMNA NAWAZ: Across the country in New York, demonstrations also flared overnight, as police removed pro-Palestinian protesters who occupied a Columbia University building for more than 12 hours.

In a statement today, Columbia President Minouche Shafik said police were called in only after several days of negotiations failed and the building occupation -- quote -- "pushed the university to the brink."

She went on to say -- quote -- "Students and outside activists breaking Hamilton Hall doors, mistreating our public safety officers and maintenance staff and damaging property are acts of destruction, not political speech."

(CHANTING) AMNA NAWAZ: Blocks away, police face another group of protesters at the City College of New York.

Today, New York City Mayor Eric Adams said about 300 people had been arrested overnight at both campuses and underscored his concern about outside agitators joining in campus protests.

ERIC ADAMS (D), Mayor of New York: Our goal is to make sure that we tell the right story.

There are people that we have been watching and organizations that are not part of the campus.

We have been very clear there are individuals and organizations that are not students.

We're seeing a shift in tactics that are being used.

AMNA NAWAZ: Some students expressed concern about the police response.

MEGHNAD BOSE, Columbia University Student: It's very difficult for me to say how many people have been injured or exactly how many people I saw getting injured.

But we do know that at least some of the police action that we saw yesterday was pretty aggressive.

AMNA NAWAZ: Larger protests at Columbia University were sparked in mid-April and have since spread to campuses across the country.

According to The Washington Post, police have made more than 1,200 arrests in the past two weeks alone.

Confrontations with law enforcement unfolded at other schools today.

At the University of Wisconsin-Madison, police worked to remove tents and made at least a dozen arrests.

In New Orleans, police arrested six people at Tulane University.

Seven others were suspended, as protests from coast to coast continue to sustain and in some cases grow.

For a closer look now at when and how police are involved in these protests, I'm joined by Frederick Lawrence, a distinguished lecturer at Georgetown University's Law Center, and he previously served as president of Brandeis University, and by Ed Davis.

He's former commissioner of the Boston Police Department from 2006 to 2013.

He's now president and CEO of the Edward Davis Company.

That's a business strategy and security services firm.

Welcome to you both.

And, Fred, I will begin with you.

As a former university president, what's your reaction to how you're seeing when and how university officials are deciding if and when to invite police and law enforcement onto campus?

FREDERICK LAWRENCE, Distinguished Lecturer, Georgetown Law Center: I think, on some campuses, law enforcement are being invited on too fast.

Law enforcement is available, but that should always be a last resort.

You always want to try to address these problems and these situations within the university family, if you possibly can.

That means faculty, that means staff, and that means public safety at universities.

In many campuses like mine, my public safety officers were deputized officers.

But, still, we didn't go off campus unless you absolutely had to.

So I'm not suggesting that it never happens.

I just think that can't be where you start.

AMNA NAWAZ: Ed, how do you look at how this is unfolded?

Do you agree with that, that, in some cases, police are being called in too quickly?

ED DAVIS, Former Boston Police Commissioner: Well, I agree that the police should be a last resort in these situations.

But we have seen some pretty outrageous behavior in some of these encampments.

And so it certainly is up to the college president to make the call.

The question is, when does the behavior go beyond free speech and start to infringe on other people's rights?

When that happens, the campus police are ill-suited to do what needs to be done with these life protests simply because of staffing.

They're very professional, they're very well trained, they know what they're doing, but they need more people.

AMNA NAWAZ: Fred, what is that last resort line for you these days?

Is it them blocking access to university buildings, violence of some kind?

FREDERICK LAWRENCE: Well, there are two different issues here.

I think Ed's quite right that there's a point when you cross over from free speech into activity that can be precluded.

That's blocking access to buildings, that's occupying buildings, that's disrupting the orderly operation of the institution, as well as actually engaging in threatening behavior, violent behavior.

So, when you do cross over that line, then speech can be restricted.

It doesn't necessarily mean that you immediately reach to law enforcement.

There are certain situations where you can or must.

Part of this too is that, by the time it comes to that, there probably were already opportunities in the past that were not taken.

So, even now, as hard as it is at this moment, we should be thinking about, what are the lessons learned and how can we get this better next time?

AMNA NAWAZ: Opportunities in the past like what?

What do you mean by that?

FREDERICK LAWRENCE: The real training for these things, the real preparation for these events takes place weeks, months, sometimes years in advance.

On my own campus at Brandeis, the presidents of the student government and I had a very close working relationship, so that by the time something like this happened, it's a little late to say, hi, I'm President Lawrence, I'm sorry we haven't met.

You have to have a trust relationship and a working relationship.

That's not going to solve all your problems, but it's actually going to solve a surprising number.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, Ed, once police are called in, once that line has been crossed, walk us through the protocol in these situations.

I mean, should there be sort of an assumption, because they are there to disband a group or to remove an encampment, that there will be some kind of use of force?

ED DAVIS: Not necessarily.

I think, in our own backyard recently at Northeastern, we saw a very controlled, very polite process of dismantling the encampment.

The State Police were called in to assist the university police there.

And I think the important difference was that the students and the protesters there had made a decision to be arrested and to go peacefully.

And so, if you encounter no resistance -- and I have done this before -- protest groups have said: We want to be arrested.

So we do that.

And it's a very civil orderly process.

The problem comes when there's a number of the individuals involved who have other ideas or other objectives.

The mayor of New York mentioned this today, people from outside the university.

And I totally agree that the prior conversations with university students and personnel does make all the difference.

You can't make a relationship in a crisis.

So if you have a good relationship and you're talking to the students, that's fine.

The unknown factor here is the other individuals who are coming in.

Some are anarchists.

Some have other objectives.

You can't negotiate with people that want to fight.

AMNA NAWAZ: Ed, tell me more about that, because we did hear Mayor Adams specifically call out outside agitators.

We have seen law enforcement leaders, national security leaders in this country saying that there could be more involvement of these kind of actors in political protests and gatherings of this sort.

How worried are you about their involvement in these protests and what that means for the future?

ED DAVIS: Well, it changes the whole formula in dealing with it.

And we track these groups all the time.

I have been dealing with them since Occupy Boston many years ago.

And the bottom line is, they're organized.

They're dangerous.

They have an agenda.

And when they get inserted into the mix, it changes the whole formula of prior relationships and being able to speak logically with people.

This is really about having a moment in the sun, having the fight occur and being in the middle of it.

AMNA NAWAZ: Fred, how do outside agitators infiltrating these campus protests, how does that change the equation for university officials?

FREDERICK LAWRENCE: It means that we have to find ways of figuring out who is and who's not.

Ed's quite right.

When you have outside people, it does change the equation.

First of all, I would just add that we have got to be very careful about loosely talking about outside agitators.

That's long been an explanation for repressing demonstrations.

I'm not suggesting that's what's happening here.

It just -- I think once you approach it with some level of skepticism.

What do you do with the concern with that?

Campuses that have fences around them that have swipe card entry, you put them in lock mode, so that a student has to have an I.D.

to let somebody in.

Obviously, a student could let somebody in, but now you have made it much harder to do that.

In situations where there are sort of soft versions of arrests, even by campus security, and where somebody shows a student I.D.

card and they're immediately released, they don't show a student I.D.

card, then they get taken into detention, that's another way of dealing with that.

But, again, if you have the relationships with the students -- look at example like Northwestern University, like Brown, where they actually sat down and worked out deals with those students.

I'm sure part of those discussions was, we're talking to you.

We will do a deal with you.

You bring in people from the outside, all bets are off.

And to a large extent, these student groups will hear that.

AMNA NAWAZ: Ed, do you see these protests slowing down or winding down any time soon?

ED DAVIS: I think a lot of it depends on international events.

I think the situation in the Middle East, if there's a cease-fire there and some type of moderation of the hostilities, I think this could calm down.

However, this is an election year.

And that's going to be weighed in the process.

So, we will see what happens.

We have got to get through graduation.

In the summertime, when there aren't as many people on campus, the focus of these protests may move somewhere, but a lot depends on what happens in Gaza.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is Ed Davis, former commissioner of the Boston Police Department, and Frederick Lawrence from Georgetown University Law Center, former president of Brandeis University.

Thank you, gentlemen, to you both.

We appreciate your time.

FREDERICK LAWRENCE: Good being with you.

GEOFF BENNETT: Amid the campus unrest in the U.S., Secretary of State Antony Blinken spent this day in Israel insisting the time is now for a cease-fire.

He spoke with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Jerusalem and visited an aid crossing into Gaza.

Later, he said Israel has offered key compromises for a cease-fire, and he pressed Hamas to say yes.

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. Secretary of State: If Hamas actually purports to care about the Palestinian people and wants to see an immediate alleviation of their suffering, it will take the deal.

If it doesn't, I think that's further proof that it doesn't care a bit.

GEOFF BENNETT: In turn, the prime minister's office insisted that Israel still means to assault the city of Rafah to finish off Hamas.

But Blinken said the U.S. has not received any Israeli plan for attacking Rafah in Southern Gaza that accounts for the safety of civilians.

Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians are sheltering in Rafah amid airstrikes that killed two more children overnight and despite fears of an Israeli ground offensive.

ENAS SYAM, Gaza Resident (through translator): We are afraid at any moment that there will be an invasion of Rafah.

And even if the invasion happens, we do not know where to go.

There is no safe place left.

God willing, there will be a truce.

GEOFF BENNETT: Palestinian officials say the war in Gaza has killed more than 34,500 people to date, and Hamas terrorists killed some 1,200 people in the October raid into Southern Israel that sparked the war.

In the day's other headlines: The Federal Reserve left its key interest rate unchanged at better than 5 percent, acknowledging that inflation remains stubbornly high.

That, in turn, jeopardizes plans to cut rates three times this year.

Fed Chair Jerome Powell said he still expects inflation to drop this year closer to the goal of 2 percent, but there's no sign yet of that.

JEROME POWELL, Federal Reserve Chairman: We didn't see progress in the first quarter.

And I have said that it appears then that it's going to take longer for us to reach that point of confidence.

So I don't know how long it'll take.

I can just say that, when we get that confidence, then rate cuts will be in scope.

And I don't know exactly when that will be.

GEOFF BENNETT: Powell did say it's unlikely the Fed's next move will be a rate increase.

There have been major developments on abortion policy on two fronts today.

In Florida, a ban on abortion after six weeks of pregnancy took effect, with exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother.

And Vice President Kamala Harris visited Jacksonville today and denounced the law.

Voters will decide whether to add abortion rights to the state constitution this November.

The Arizona State Senate voted today to overturn a strict abortion ban that dates to 1864.

Democrats won over enough Republicans to carry the measure.

A repeal had narrowly passed the state House last week, as three Republicans crossed party lines.

The law provides no exceptions for rape or incest.

In Congress, far right Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene is vowing that she will forge ahead with trying to oust House Speaker Mike Johnson.

Many Republicans still support Johnson, and Democrats now say that they will oppose efforts to remove him.

But, today, outside the Capitol, Greene announced that she will call for a vote next week unless Johnson quits.

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): He can pray about it, think about it all weekend, do the right thing, and resign, giving our conference time to elect a new leader, a new speaker of the House.

He should reject the endorsement of Hakeem Jeffries and the entire Democrat leadership team.

That is not an endorsement that any Republican speaker should ever want or embrace.

GEOFF BENNETT: For his part, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries says it's time for Democrats to help restore order in the House.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): House Republicans are either unwilling or unable to get Marjorie Taylor Greene and the extreme MAGA Republicans under control, and so it's going to take a bipartisan coalition and partnership to accomplish that objective.

GEOFF BENNETT: House Speaker Johnson enraged his Republican critics last month when he used Democratic support to push through aid for Ukraine.

United Methodist Church delegates have repealed a longstanding ban on LGBTQ clergy.

The vote came today at the denomination's national gathering in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Delegates also barred regional leaders from punishing clergy who officiate same-sex weddings.

All of this comes as many conservatives have left the church in recent years.

Protesters around the world poured into the streets to advocate labor rights on this May Day.

Rallies popped up from Sri Lanka, a country struggling through economic crisis, to Paris, where workers demanded wage hikes ahead of the summer Olympic Games.

In Istanbul, Turkey, police arrested more than 200 people after clashes broke out near the city's main square.

In Kansas, a town of just 700 people is in mourning tonight after a tornado killed one person and blasted homes into ruins.

Last night's storm ripped through Westmoreland, about 50 miles outside of Topeka.

Piles of tree limbs and other debris cluttered neighborhood streets.

Officials said 22 homes were destroyed, with more than a dozen others damaged.

Former students at a now-defunct chain of colleges will have $6 billion of federal student loan canceled over allegations of fraud.

The Biden administration says it's writing off loan debt to some 317,000 people who attended the art institutes.

Federal officials say the schools lied about their job prospects.

And on Wall Street, stocks searched for direction after the Fed's announcement on inflation and interest rates.

The Dow Jones industrial average gained 87 points to close at 37903.

The Nasdaq fell 52 points.

The S&P 500 slipped 17.

Still to come on the "NewsHour": a government task force releases new breast cancer screening guidelines; and an agriculture university in Rwanda works to develop a climate-aware approach to help farmers.

Donald Trump was out of the courtroom and back on the campaign trail today in Wisconsin with a familiar refrain about undocumented immigrants.

DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate: We're going to have the largest deportation in the history of our country.

We have no choice.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) GEOFF BENNETT: It was the latest example of the policies he would like to implement if reelected.

And it follows a wide-ranging interview with "TIME" magazine that sparked headlines about what he would do in a second term.

Lisa Desjardins joins us now.

So, Lisa, there's a lot in this interview.

But let's start with how Donald Trump would staff his administration and what sounds like a litmus test about the 2020 election.

LISA DESJARDINS: Yes, "TIME" magazine said, overall, this was a picture of a man who wants an imperial presidency, someone who plans to ramp up and intensify, not soften, what he's doing.

And that's where we get to 2020.

He again repeated the idea that the election was stolen from him.

He said there was proof.

We know the proof goes the other way, that the 2020 election was one of the most well-regarded and well-monitored elections in U.S. history.

But "TIME" magazine asked him specifically about something Republicans elsewhere are doing.

They are asking people who apply for jobs if they think that Joe Biden won the election.

So "TIME" magazine asked former President Trump what he thought about that idea.

And "TIME"'s Eric Cortellessa said his response to that gave him a very sharp impression.

ERIC CORTELLESSA, "TIME": He wants to go into a second term and consolidate power into the office of the presidency, so that he can remove the guardrails that stood in his way from implementing his agenda the last time he was in office.

What Donald Trump was conveying to me was that he would not be inclined to hire anyone who has come out and admitted that Donald Trump lost the last election.

And so I think he is planning to fill the most important offices in the executive branch with true believers of the MAGA doctrine.

LISA DESJARDINS: There's a reason that that's called the big lie, because that goes to our democracy itself.

And, here, former President Trump is saying, no, I might not hire anyone who thinks otherwise.

I need people to support that idea that only I can win, only I ever have won when I ran.

GEOFF BENNETT: Another topic, immigration and the border, this has been the cornerstone of his campaign.

What's he saying in this interview?

LISA DESJARDINS: Right.

This gets to migrants.

He is becoming more militant and more martial in what he is talking about here.

He is calling for nothing less than the largest deportation in American history.

He gave some more details.

He specifically used these numbers; 15 to 20 million people is what the former president told "TIME" magazine.

How would he do that?

He said he would use local law enforcement and the military, National Guard, didn't really get into too many details about that.

But he was asked specifically about how that comports with U.S. law, which says the military cannot, in fact, be used to be deployed against civilians.

I want to read you the quote from what he told "TIME" magazine about that.

He said of migrants: "These aren't civilians.

These are people that aren't legally in our country.

This is an invasion of our country.

I can see myself using the National Guard.

And, if necessary, I would have to go a step further."

This is invoking, obviously, martial powers in a way that we haven't really seen in this issue at all.

Now, as for would he have mass detention camps, he said possibly, but he doesn't think they're needed.

I will say, right now, the U.S. is actually allowing for more bed space for migrant detention.

That's something that this Congress and president are doing.

But that's the tune of a few thousand migrants.

What he is talking about is millions.

This is deportation that really almost has no comparison point in terms of forced movement of people on a global scale.

GEOFF BENNETT: On abortion, we have seen Donald Trump shift his stance seemingly to match with the kinds of voters he is trying to win over.

He has, in the past, taken credit for overturning Roe.

Now he says he disagrees with Florida's six-week abortion ban, which took effect today.

What's he saying to "TIME" magazine now in this interview?

LISA DESJARDINS: Yes, you're so right.

This is a tricky issue for this president.

He's someone who wants to run the Republican Party on every other issue, but, on this one, he is consistently saying, and he did again in this interview, he wants to leave it to the states.

That is because his own personal view that he's expressed that a six-week ban is too far is something that's a problem with those on the right.

So, he was asked some specific questions that I think were interesting, and I want to get into a few of those questions that stood out in this interview.

One, he was asked, should states monitor pregnancies to determine if an abortion happened in a state where it is illegal?

Trump responded: "I think they might do that."

Then, should states process women for abortions?

He said: "The states are going to say.

It's irrelevant whether I'm comfortable or not."

Now, again, this is a consistent "states will do what they should do" policy from the former president.

It is a policy proposal.

It is also political.

But this idea that states monitoring pregnancy is something that he could accept is incredibly notable.

Whether he's a president who vetoes legislation or not, he's the leader of the Republican Party making these statements.

GEOFF BENNETT: And what's the picture that this gives overall, Lisa?

LISA DESJARDINS: Right.

This is a picture, as I said, of a president who is ramping up his aggression.

He is -- or his aggressive tactics as a president, trying to really consolidate executive power before he even comes into office.

Now, I will say, it was a wide-ranging interview.

He went into details on economic policy, his ideas on tariffs.

This wasn't all just about these cultural hot spots.

And it's really worth people looking at this interview to understand what he says he would do as president.

But, overall, this is someone who wants to take the Republican Party even further into this direction where it must do exactly what he says and be more aggressive about it.

I spoke to Republican consultant Kevin Madden, who we have on this show.

And he said this could mean more of a stress test for Republicans, especially those in office.

KEVIN MADDEN, Republican Strategist: Trump blocks out the sun on all of the other voices inside the party.

He expects that the party is going to adopt his view, his language, his approach.

And he very much demands, fealty from leaders inside the party.

One of the challenges for a Trump presidency will be that the idea of an executive equal to a legislative branch is going to be challenged on a day-to-day basis.

LISA DESJARDINS: Bigger stress test for Republicans means a bigger stress test for the U.S. government is also what Kevin Madden's saying.

GEOFF BENNETT: Meantime, we have some new polling results that look at how and which Americans believe what Donald Trump says.

LISA DESJARDINS: Truth is such a core part of this.

And we wanted to ask voters and Americans what they think about how Donald Trump speaks.

So let's look at this.

When Donald Trump speaks, 31 percent of people that we polled who are definitely planning to vote, 31 percent said they believe he's speaking mostly the truth; 34 percent say he's speaking mostly falsehoods.

Now, that -- you're doing the math.

Those in the middle that we don't put there are those who say sometimes it's some of each.

But this is interesting on the two polls, that we think a third of Americans from this who are voting believe he speaks mostly the truth.

If you look at this more in depth, you see a gender gap.

Men are the ones who are most likely to believe what former President Trump says.

And look at that.

Women, 45 percent of women overall believe he speaks mostly falsehoods, that he does tell lies.

Now, one other thing, how about strengthening democracy or not?

Look at this.

We asked voters -- these are definite voters -- what they think about President Trump and President Biden.

They felt, 38 percent, that former President Trump is someone who would strengthen democracy if he's reelected.

Look at that, President Biden, 35 percent would likely strengthen democracy.

This is a tricky number because a lot of voters who answered this poll believe that President Biden would keep things as it was.

But we wanted to raise this because it shows many voters, definite voters, believe that Trump would strengthen democracy.

More believe he would weaken it.

But there is a significant core out there that believes he would strengthen it.

GEOFF BENNETT: All right, Lisa Desjardins, thanks so much for walking us through all this.

We appreciate it.

LISA DESJARDINS: You're welcome.

AMNA NAWAZ: A key scientific panel has updated its recommendations on breast cancer screenings.

Ali Rogin has more on the changes that could potentially save thousands of lives -- Ali.

ALI ROGIN: Amna, the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force is now recommending that all women start getting biennial mammograms at age 40 until they turn 75.

The new guidelines replace ones from 2016, which recommended biennial screenings starting at age 50 and that starting them any earlier should be a matter of individual choice.

But these new guidelines are still out of step with some major medical associations and cancer advocacy groups.

Dr. Wanda Nicholson is the chair of the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force and joins me now.

Dr. Nicholson, thank you so much.

Why did the USPSTF make these recommendations?

And how many lives is it going to save?

DR. WANDA NICHOLSON, Chair, U.S. Preventive Services Task Force: Well, we know that breast cancer is the second most common cancer in women and the second most common cause of cancer deaths in women.

The latest science clearly shows that by starting at age 40 and screening every other year until age 74 can save even more lives from breast cancer and, in fact, can save up to nearly 20 percent more lives.

And this corresponds to about 25,000 more women whose lives are saved.

We think that's a huge win for women.

ALI ROGIN: As we did mention, these guidelines are out of step with some advocacy groups and medical organizations.

I spoke earlier today with a board-certified radiologist, Dr. Robyn Roth.

She raised some concerns.

I want to play for you some of her comments and then ask you about them.

DR. ROBYN GARTNER ROTH, Cooper University Health Care: I think that they missed the mark in a number of ways, the largest way being the every-two-year screening interval, which experts like myself will tell you that annual screening mammography saves the most lives.

These guidelines do not endorse supplemental screening in women with dense breast tissue.

And I think that is a major downfall of these recommendations.

ALI ROGIN: I want to ask first about the two-year interval.

You actually said in a recent interview that annual screening might find some cancers earlier.

So, why not recommend annual breast screening?

DR. WANDA NICHOLSON: Well, the task force's role is to look for the strongest evidence possible to help guide women as to how they should be screened and how often to be screened.

And we recently looked at the evidence and looked across all the evidence, comparing the benefits and harms of different screening strategies.

We found a much more favorable balance of benefits and harms for individuals undergoing screening every other year compared to annually.

ALI ROGIN: And what are some of those harms?

DR. WANDA NICHOLSON: Well, there can be various harms.

First, the first leading harm can be a harm of potentially false positives.

And what we found is that, if you compare annual screening to every-other-year screening, women who undergo annual screening can have up to 50 percent more likely to have a false positive result.

So what does that mean?

It means that then the next step may be a breast biopsy that could otherwise be normal, and, that way, they underwent sort of an unnecessary biopsy.

It can also lead to issues of overdiagnosis and overtreatment and a possibly exposure to treatments that may have some harmful side effects.

So, again, when we compared the balance of benefits and harms, it was a more favorable balance for every-other-year screening.

ALI ROGIN: And when weighing the potential for false positives against the potential for catching some cancers earlier, what was that calculation?

DR. WANDA NICHOLSON: Well, you're -- when we think about annual screening, then you are looking at the fact that perhaps you may have detected a cancer earlier.

But the issue remains is whether or not that annual screening correlated with reducing mortality.

So, while you may have a slightly -- you might have a benefit to the annual screening, the harms of the annual screening in terms of false positives and the downstream consequences of that outweigh that potential benefit.

ALI ROGIN: Is there evidence to show that there is no correlation between catching cancers earlier and reduction of mortality?

DR. WANDA NICHOLSON: Well, we do want to catch cancers as early as possible.

I mean, we care about women and we want women to get best care possible.

Again, it's a matter of balancing the benefits and harms.

And when we look across the evidence, as well as our modeling studies, we looked across different strategies.

So we compared screening every other year.

We compared screening every year.

And when you look at that balance of what benefit you may gain with screening annually, compared to those harms, those harms far outweighed those benefits.

ALI ROGIN: The other thing that Dr. Roth brought up was breast density, which, of course, dense breasts are harder to read on mammograms.

Why not make more specific recommendations for dense breasts, for which sometimes MRIs or ultrasounds, secondary screening, is indicated?

DR. WANDA NICHOLSON: Well, we know that up to 50 percent of the women in the U.S. can have dense breasts, so certainly an important group.

The critical question for this population is whether additional imaging with MRI or ultrasound can help women with dense breasts live healthier lives.

So, in other words, should they -- should we recommend MRI?

Should we recommend ultrasound?

How often should we recommend MRI or ultrasound?

So many critical questions there that haven't been answered and for which we need additional science, additional evidence to really be able to make a recommendation.

The task force is calling urgently for more research in this area.

We want researchers to make it a priority.

And in the interim time, for those women with dense breasts with concerns, they should have a one-to-one conversation with their clinician to decide whether, at this point, should they move forward with any additional screening.

ALI ROGIN: And you have to ask about what you mentioned about the lack of answers that are out there.

Certainly, groups like the American College of Radiology, the European Society of Radiology do recommend annual secondary screening for women whose breasts have been shown to be dense.

So what additional evidence is required?

DR. WANDA NICHOLSON: Well, we believe that women need the strongest possible evidence out there to help guide them in their decisions.

And the task force, we have looked - - we looked diligently for evidence to help us to make a recommendation as to how additional screening, additional imaging should be done in women with dense breasts.

And, currently, that evidence just is not there.

We don't want to rely purely on expert opinion.

We really believe that women need that science as the basis and the rationale for what recommendations we make for additional screening.

ALI ROGIN: And I'm just wondering, how do you see the role of the USPSTF in issuing these recommendations in the context of all of the available guidance that's out there for women?

DR. WANDA NICHOLSON: Well, it is true that there are variations in guidance.

I do think that our USPSTF task force recommendations are -- have more similarities with other groups versus differences.

We -- again, we looked across the entire scope of evidence that we had available.

We looked at the comparative benefits and harms.

Whenever we make a recommendation for a preventive service, we really want to look at both sides of the equation.

ALI ROGIN: Dr. Wanda Nicholson, chair of the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force, thank you so much for joining us.

DR. WANDA NICHOLSON: Thank you for having me.

GEOFF BENNETT: The Biden administration calls the People's Republic of China, or PRC, the only country with the will, the intent, and the military strength to change the world order.

The U.S. military officer responsible for China and the vast area from Hawaii to India is stepping down this week after three years and a 40-year career.

He spoke in his final interview with Nick Schifrin in Honolulu.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The military calls it Indo-Pacific Command, or INDOPACOM.

It covers half the surface area of the planet and more than 60 percent of the world's economy and population.

And, increasingly, Admiral John Aquilino sees China speeding up.

Already, Beijing fielded the world's largest military, and in the three years since he's been in command, Aquilino says China has built more than 400 aircraft, 20 major warships, and doubled its missile inventory, leading Aquilino to say that the U.S., its allies, and its partners must go faster.

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO, Commander, U.S. Indo-Pacific Command: As I look at over my last three years, the security environment has changed drastically, and not in a good way.

When you look at the PRC as the most concerning security threat that exists, they continue to be more aggressive in a variety of areas.

They're challenging the current international rules to benefit an authoritarian society that does not provide benefit for anyone else in the region.

They have expanded their military capability.

Their verbalization is more aggressive and their actions are more aggressive, and they have now accelerated to dangerous.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Perhaps most dangerous in the Philippines.

On Tuesday, Chinese boats hit a Philippine boat with water cannons in the Scarborough Shoal, which China claims as its own.

It also claims the Second Thomas Shoal, where Chinese boats have rammed Philippine boats trying to resupply a ship the Philippines intentionally grounded.

The U.S. acknowledges it is obligated to defend the Philippines.

Are Chinese actions increasing the chances of U.S.-Chinese conflict?

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: Yes, the Chinese actions are certainly destabilizing to the region.

They are putting at risk the Philippine Coast Guardsmen, sailors, and those fishermen that operate in their exclusive economic zone within the full rights of the Philippines.

NICK SCHIFRIN: If one of these incidents becomes deadly, then that becomes a very serious challenge for the U.S. and for the military.

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: That could absolutely be a challenge for the United States, again, through the policy level.

Nick, the important part of this, again, it's the Philippines today, but we have to highlight the fact that China has these same claims throughout the entire South China Sea.

NICK SCHIFRIN: You recently said the Chinese -- quote -- "believe they can get away with it."

Does that mean they haven't paid enough price for their actions?

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: Well, they have clearly made a risk determination that taking aggressive actions is within their interests and to the benefit of their strategic objectives.

You would have to ask them on how they're thinking about this.

Their actions tell a story, as I look at it.

NICK SCHIFRIN: In about three weeks, Taiwan inaugurates a new president known as William Lai.

Beijing calls him a dangerous separatist.

You recently called out increasingly aggressive coercion and pressure by Beijing toward Taipei.

What do you expect from Beijing around Inauguration Day?

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: What I would say is, the United States' policy as it applies to Taiwan has not changed.

The United States supports the peaceful resolution of this dispute to the satisfaction of people on both sides of the straits, free of coercion.

And the issue here is, we are not in the free-of-coercion space.

Increase aggressiveness in the maritime domain, in the air domain, in the cyber domain, and in the information domain, and not just against the mainland island of Taiwan, but against Matsu, Kinmen, and the other places that we are watching more aggressive behavior.

NICK SCHIFRIN: These are Taiwanese islands.

Some of them are closer to mainland than they are to Taipei.

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: That's correct.

Operations in spaces that have been designed to separate our forces, those are being challenged.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The Trump and Biden administrations have both urged Taiwan to purchase fewer fighter jets and tanks and more mobile, smaller weapons.

Some experts say they haven't done enough, but the theory has now been proven in Ukraine.

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: They have absolutely taken steps in the wake of the Ukraine invasion to, number one, understand that the unthinkable is potentially real.

And they have taken all the right steps.

As it applies to their defense, they get a choice on what they should buy, how they should work it, how they integrate it, and how they deliver it.

And, again, under the Taiwan Relations Act, we're standing by to support that.

When you look at the INDOPACOM AOR here, from the border of Pakistan and India over to this part... NICK SCHIFRIN: Across the region, the military has broadened cooperation with allies and now operates from more bases, thanks to bilateral and multilateral political agreements, in part designed to complicate Beijing's war planning.

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: What I want is for all of these nations to be able to operate together, if need be, to support each other when required, whether it be for humanitarian assistance or for the United States to execute our mutual defense treaty responsibilities or ultimately to protect the global commons.

NICK SCHIFRIN: China has its own expanding alliance.

You recently testified that China has helped Russia rebuild and reconstitute its defense industrial base.

How much has it done?

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: What I can watch from this side is the ability of Beijing to utilize a cover of civil-military fusion to be able to provide capabilities to the Russians below the level of direct lethal aid.

And, again, that is this no-limits relationship that we should be concerned about.

NICK SCHIFRIN: A U.S. official gave me this detail.

China has sent Russia billions of dollars worth of machine tools that Moscow has likely used to build missiles, microelectronics for tanks and aircraft.

It almost sounds like this kind of partnership that Nixon and Kissinger were able to prevent during the Cold War.

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: And in the words of President Xi Jinping, this is a relationship not seen in 100 years.

Those are his words.

And the actions support it.

NICK SCHIFRIN: North Korea has supplied Russia with short-range ballistic missiles, in addition to more than a million artillery shells.

Russia has used these ballistic missiles, including in Kharkiv, what was once Ukraine's second largest city.

Are you concerned this is a two-way street, that North Korean missiles, which are not particularly good, get tested, get battle-tested in Ukraine by Russia and therefore could destabilize the peninsula?

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: Absolutely.

First of all, when you talk about the authoritarian nations, no one ever does anything to help anybody else for the goodness of the other person.

There is a quid pro quo that applies.

So we are concerned about the access to increased technology in North Korea.

But the main theme that's really concerning here and that everyone has to see is, it links authoritarian nations in ways that hasn't -- that we haven't seen in our history in a long, long time.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Last week, President Biden signed into law a bill that would require TikTok's Chinese owner to divest or face a ban in the U.S. You have pointed out that no Chinese apps are being used at INDOPACOM.

If you don't mind my asking a slightly personal question, would you let your family use TikTok?

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: I have encouraged my daughters not to.

There is a risk there, right, the intelligence gathering risk, the information, misinformation and disinformation transmission that we see.

Again, that's the reason that I have prohibited it here at INDOPACOM.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Well, do your daughters listen to you?

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: No one in my house listens to me.

(LAUGHTER) ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: This jaunt down here for me, Nick, this is my place of sanity, right?

NICK SCHIFRIN: At Joint Base Pearl Harbor, the guided missile cruiser USS Shiloh has just rebased from Japan.

Aquilino has pushed the military to create a regional joint task force, the first outside a theater of war.

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: The more aggressive rhetoric, and certainly the more aggressive actions over my three years, have led me to a place where the synchronization of our force is required, and the best way to do that is by putting in place a standing joint task force to totally and seamlessly integrate our operations, our actions, our plans in order to be postured in a fight tonight stance.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Standing here three years later, what have you not accomplished that you hoped you would?

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: What I would say has been consistent over three years.

I haven't been able to drive the entire machine to move faster.

I don't think we have accelerated enough across all domains and all areas to be able to, no kidding, accelerate the delivery of deterrent effects and ultimately posture ourselves in a position that is really where we need to be in this current security environment.

For all of us, we all have to continue to go faster.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Do you think you have a legacy after three years?

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: Everybody gets a legacy, whether they like it or not.

I will let other people write the history.

I couldn't be more proud to have been serving with and serving alongside the 380,000 U.S. service members in this region.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Admiral Aquilino, thank you very much.

ADM. JOHN AQUILINO: Thanks, Nick.

AMNA NAWAZ: The African continent faces challenges as varied as its vast landmass, some three times the size of the United States.

But one shared challenge by all 54 countries is food security, how to feed a population of 1.2 billion people that's expected to double by 2050.

Fred de Sam Lazaro has a report on one attempt to build a foundation.

It's part of his series Agents for Change.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: This picturesque 3,000-acre campus represents a $100 million effort to bring a piece of Nebraska to Rwanda, a land whose history and geography could not be more distant from the American Midwest.

On one small plot, a harvest of corn or maize is being brought in by students whose day is split between farm chores and a rigorous curriculum of biology and mathematics.

The Rwanda Institute for Conservation Agriculture, or RICA, was inaugurated in 2019, aiming to transform a profession that employs the vast majority of Africa's population.

For most, farming is an eternal struggle to earn a living or respect.

And you will never find a young person a poster or flier about agriculture, says student Joel Ishimwe.

JOEL ISHIMWE, Student: You only find old women who are from the rural areas.

You can't find some cool guys on those posters.

(CROSSTALK) FRED DE SAM LAZARO: ... find cool guys on those posters?

RICA students like this group are arguably cool, academic high achievers, among 84 chosen each year from more than 3,000 applicants.

Many come from urban and middle-class families that climb the socioeconomic ladder, leaving behind the agriculture traditions of their grandparents.

KEVIN ARAHIRWA INEZA, Student: When you come from a family of engineers, lawyers, to tell them that you're joining agriculture, they think you're crazy.

FIONA IRIZA, Student: Most of them are like, oh, you were supposed to study medicine.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Before coming here, how many of you had ever milked a cow?

JOEL ISHIMWE: I tried.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: And did you get any milk?

JOEL ISHIMWE: A little.

(LAUGHTER) FRED DE SAM LAZARO: When they graduate, they will be expected to know not only how to milk cows or raise poultry, but to think innovatively about how to make agriculture more and sustainably productive.

The curriculum for their bachelor's degrees was designed in partnership with the University of Nebraska, with the wherewithal of one man from that state's most famous family, one who's no stranger to Africa.

HOWARD BUFFETT, Philanthropist: I have been to every country on the continent, as a matter of fact, and we have worked in about 44 countries.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Howard Buffett is the 69-year-old son of billionaire investor Warren Buffett, who is gifting much of his fortune to his children's charitable foundations.

Howard's has focused substantially on food security.

HOWARD BUFFETT: In all the places we have worked where we have seen really bad conflict, I can tell you that one denominator is, people are not getting the food they need to get.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: In addition to unsettled conflict and weather, he says the continent has few temperate zones ideal for staple crops, and systems to transport, store and market food are also inadequate.

Rwanda, with relative political stability, was a good place to start building a system, he says, but daunting nonetheless.

HOWARD BUFFETT: Almost the entire country is made up of small holder farmers.

And if you look at the types of slopes farming on, if we can get it right in Rwanda, we can get it right anywhere.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Rwanda has a landmass about the size of New Hampshire, but with 10 times the population, about 13 million people.

And despite progress that's been made at slowing the growth rate, the population here is expected to double by 2050.

MAGNIFIQUE NZARAMBA, Rwanda Institute for Conservation Agriculture: It's not all our students are going to become job seekers.

They have to be job creators.

That's really our end goal.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Magnifique Nzaramba, who studied at Texas A&M, is a deputy vice chancellor at RICA.

So our target is to try and teach them entrepreneurial skills, business skills, but also sufficient technical skills to implement it themselves or to go work for somebody to make sure that they have -- they add value to wherever they seek employment.

FIONA IRIZA: So I want to be able to provide safe food.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Safe food comes with careful processing, says senior Fiona Iriza, who hopes someday to start her own business.

She also wants to reduce waste, finding new uses for, say, dairy byproduct.

FIONA IRIZA: Well, we're making cheese, for example.

The whey proteins that remain, they can also be used to feed -- to feed the pigs, because they're very nutritious.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Kevin Ineza, who hoped to be an engineer before coming to RICA, plans to employ similar skills in agriculture.

KEVIN ARAHIRWA INEZA: I hope to own a company that works on precision agriculture, where you can use sensors and other technologies, so that you can conserve the environment, the water, so that you make agriculture more productive.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Joel Ishimwe and Ornella Rukundo have their own ideas toward the same goal.

ORNELLA RUKUNDO, Student: How can we make more money through agricultural activities, and as well as integrating the crop and animal livestocks?

JOEL ISHIMWE: The thing that I want to do, ideally in five years, is to teach kids and introduce agriculture and farming practices to kids when they are still young.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: RICA wants to make extension agents of its alumni, imparting knowledge they gain here to help farmers.

MAGNIFIQUE NZARAMBA: Maybe they're not using the right seed.

Maybe they don't have access to the right fertilizers.

So, really, our job is to listen to them, assess what is right, and then help them improve on what isn't right.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: It's exactly the model of universities like Nebraska or Minnesota, whose agricultural researchers provide extension services to farmers, as Howard Buffett explained to RICA's first graduating class last year.

HOWARD BUFFETT: Every country in Africa needs its own version, its own version of a land grant university.

Very importantly, it would be informed by and designed for local needs, local research and local extension.

That's what the land grant university in America was built on.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Unlike America, where farms have gotten larger and farmers fewer in number, he says Rwanda's priority is to sustain small rural farms, which have struggled in many developing nations, driving tens of millions of people into overcrowded cities.

And the focus at RICA is on conservation agriculture, planting fields without tilling, the widespread practice, especially in the U.S., that erodes and depletes the soil of nutrients.

It requires more and more fertilizer, is polluting and, Buffett says, unsustainable.

HOWARD BUFFETT: What's the most important thing I have?

It's not my tractor, it's not my drill, it's not my combine.

It's the soil.

When you can keep that soil in place, you can increase your production, you can maintain your production, and you can keep your water clean.

And conservation agriculture is a huge contributor to the solution to several problems.

It's not just about, how do we help farmers in Rwanda farm better.

It's about, what does it mean to farm better?

They're all split into eight acres.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: On his own farms in South Africa, in Nebraska, and here in Illinois, he says, it's meant both his soil and his bottom line remain solidly black.

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Fred de Sam Lazaro in Decatur, Illinois.

AMNA NAWAZ: Fred's reporting is a partnership with the Under-Told Stories Project at the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota.

GEOFF BENNETT: And, remember, there's more online, including a look at a little-known illness linked to frequent cannabis use.

That's at PBS.org/NewsHour.

AMNA NAWAZ: And join us again here tomorrow night, when we will have a look at the critical youth vote in the battleground state of Michigan.

And that is the "NewsHour" for tonight.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "PBS NewsHour," thanks for joining us, and have a good evening.