April 21, 2024 - PBS News Weekend full episode

JOHN YANG: Tonight on PBS News Weekend, we asked NATO Secretary General if the delayed U.S. aid to Ukraine is too late to make a difference.

Then, how a Supreme Court case on laws limiting homeless encampments could reshape policy across the country.

WOMAN: Cities generally use much more punitive policies to effectively punish people who are experiencing homelessness for behaviors that are associated with the realities of homelessness.

JOHN YANG: And detentions in one Montana city over homeless people living in vehicles.

(BREAK) JOHN YANG: Good evening, Iúm John Yang.

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy hailed yesterdayús vote to resume aid to his embattled nation.

He called it a sign of unwavering U.S. support for Ukraine and the Ukrainian people.

Other Western leaders also welcomed the $61 billion aid package.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz called it a strong signal.

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said the much delayed funding is better late than too late.

The Kremlin on the other hand, said it would further ruin Ukraine and result in the deaths of even more Ukrainians.

On NBCús Meet the Press today, Zelenskyy said that the new weapons will give his fighters a chance for victory.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, Ukrainian President (through translator): We really need to get this to the final point we need to get approved by the Senate.

And then we want to, well, get things as fast as possible so that we get some tangible assistance for the soldiers on the frontline as soon as possible not in another six months so that they would be able to move ahead.

JOHN YANG: Senate approval and President Bidenús signature are both widely expected in the coming days.

Both are necessary before the desperately needed aid can start flowing.

Palestinian health officials said 22 people died today and Israeli strikes on Rafah in southern Gaza.

18 of the dead were children.

Israel is bombarded Rafah from the air almost daily saying they were targeting Hamas terrorist.

Israeli officials say a ground offensive there is still in the works despite international calls for restraint.

The Hamas run Gaza health ministry says the Palestinian death toll since the war began has now surpassed 34,000.

And Roman Gabriel has died he was one of the leading pro quarterbacks of the 1960s in the 1970s.

He played in 16 seasons in the NFL for the Los Angeles Rams and Philadelphia Eagles.

He was voted MVP in 1969 the year he led the league and touchdown passes.

Gabriel was the first Filipino-American NFL quarterback and retirement Gabriel works as a broadcaster coached and dabbled in acting appearing on such TV shows as Gilliganús Island and Wonder Woman.

Roman Gabriel was 83 years old.

Still to come on PBS News Weekend.

Whatús at stake for the unhoused across the country and Monday Supreme Court case and how one Montana City is grappling with the issue of homeless people living in cars and RVs.

(BREAK) Among the Western leaders welcoming yesterdayús approval of Ukraine aid was sent NATO secretary General Jens Stoltenberg.

He tweeted this makes us all safer in Europe and North America.

Earlier I spoke with Stoltenberg from NATO headquarters in Brussels.

I asked him about the difference the aid will make in the war.

JENS STOLTENBERG, Secretary General, NATO: The U.S. decision that we saw on Saturday is big, it is important and it will make a difference on the ground.

And Iúm absolutely confident that the U.S. will be able to get support to the battlefield to the frontlines quickly, then, of course, the delay has had a consequence, because the Ukrainians have been totally outgunned.

And we have seen also how Russian missiles, drones have been able to hit the more and more Ukrainian targets because the Ukrainians are too little elephants, and also to get the with announcements from other NATO allies.

Germany and the Netherlands are stepping up and that will make a difference on the ground in the coming weeks on this.

JOHN YANG: You talked about the NATO allies in Europe?

Have they been slow in getting going in your view?

Are they doing enough?

JENS STOLTENBERG: I think all allies can do more.

But the reality is that if you look at the numbers Canada and European allies as a non-U.S. allies, they have, since the start of this war, provided roughly 50 percent, half of the total military support, which is substantial.

And if you add then economic support Ukraine, humanitarian to support Ukraine, and on top of that, also the economic cost of hosting millions of Ukrainian refugees.

The reality is that European allies are paying much higher economic price for the war in Ukraine than the United States.

So this is burden sharing.

We do this together.

And thatús exactly what we should do.

JOHN YANG: On Friday, youúve said weúre talking about Patriot missile batteries, which of course Ukraine has been asking for.

They say they desperately need them.

You said that there are some in in NATO allies in Europe that could be provided to them.

Why havenút those batteries already been set?

Why have they been set before?

JENS STOLTENBERG: So first of all, NATO allies have provided Patriot batteries, but also many other types of air defense systems and NATO Defense Ministers met on Friday together with the president Zelenskyy and made it very clear that we need to do even more.

Germany has already announced an additional Patriot battery, or their allies I expect will announce in the coming days or at least soon.

And weúre also now engaging with the defense industry, from the NATO side to make sure that they do whatever they can to ramp up production, but not only ramp up production new systems, but to ensure that we can refurbish all systems because this is not only about having the batteries.

They also need the ammunition, the interceptors to the batteries.

And weúre working on both batteries and on ammunition as fast as possible to get them over to Ukraine.

JOHN YANG: During the congressional debate yesterday, a number of opponents of this aid to Ukraine said this is a European problem, which also sort of tracks along with Donald Trumpús isolationism.

What do you say to those people?

JENS STOLTENBERG: It isnút a security interest of the United States that Ukraine prevails.

Because if President Putin wins in Ukraine, it will be a tragedy for the Ukrainians, but also send a clear message to President Putin that when he uses military force when they violate international law, he gets what he wants.

And that will make the world more dangerous and all of us more vulnerable.

So this is about our own security, military support.

Ukraine is not charity, military support Ukraine is an investment in our own security, and is an investment in us security.

JOHN YANG: Whatús your assessment of what the situation is on the ground?

Right now, there was a lot of talk that this is the year that Ukraine could lose the war.

Whatús your assessment?

JENS STOLTENBERG: It is a difficult situation partly caused by the delays in provision of ammunition and weapons from the United States.

But today, I think we should just be glad and welcome the very important decision that was taken on Saturday.

And as soon as this has passed the Senate and signed by the President, then the U.S. support will make a difference.

Wars are by nature very unpredictable.

But we need to be prepared for long haul.

And therefore it is important that we are an hour also discussing not only short term support as a month by month, but also look into how we can establish more institutionalized NATO framework around the support to have more predictable, more robust support for the long term and long term funding that will send a message to President Putin that he cannot wait us out and that will increase the possibility for some kind of negotiated solution.

JOHN YANG: Would you support Ukraine striking inside Russia to pressure them and to raise the cost of Russia of waging this war?

JENS STOLTENBERG: We have to remember that this is a war of aggression.

One country attacks and other countries invade the country with battle tanks, with planes, with soldiers and according to international law the victim of aggression has the right to self-defense.

And we have the right to support them without becoming party to the conflict.

And the right to self-defense includes also right to strike legitimate military targets outside Ukraine.

Itús not for NATO to design.

But the reality is that Ukraine has the right to defend themselves.

And that includes also destroying military targets outside Ukraine.

JOHN YANG: Do they have the capability to do that?

JENS STOLTENBERG: We have seen that they have been quite capable of conducting deep strikes against different Russian military capabilities behind the alliance.

And in particular, they have been able to sink a large number of Russian ships combat vessels in the Black Sea.

So the principal able to open a corridor in the Black Sea and to ship out grain.

Again, we need to remember where this war started back in February 2022.

Most experts feared that Ukraine would collapse within weeks and key within days, that didnút happen.

Ukrainians are liberated 50 percent of the land that was occupied by Russia and the beginning.

They have conducted deep strikes and destroyed significant amount of Russian combat capabilities.

And they have opened up a corridor in the Black Sea.

So the Ukrainians have the skills, the commitment to prevail, we need to provide the military equipment to them.

JOHN YANG: President Zelenskyy was on the NewsHour last week, and he talked a lot about the role that Russian propaganda has played in this congressional fight.

There are a number of NATO allies who have important elections this year, not just the United States.

How big a threat is the possibility of this sort of Russian meddling in those elections?

And what can NATO do about that?

JENS STOLTENBERG: We need to be very much aware of the risk of disinformation, Russian attempts to meddle to manipulate political processes in our countries.

But I actually believe that the best way to counter this information is the truth, the truth will prevail, but to ensure that we need a free and independent press journalists who are doing their job checking their sources.

In democracies, there will be different views.

There will be discussions, there will be different opinions.

But as long as we have an open debate with a free and independent press, Iúm quite certain that democracies will be resilient against an attempt from authoritarian powers like Russia to undermine our democratic institutions.

JOHN YANG: NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, thank you very much for your time.

JENS STOLTENBERG: Thanks so much for having me.

JOHN YANG: Tomorrow, the Supreme Court hears arguments about whether laws limiting homeless encampments in public places are unconstitutional because they punish people for being homeless.

The case is about laws in Grants Pass, Oregon, a city of about 40,000 in the state southwest corner, but the outcome could reshape policies nationwide for years to come.

Charley Willison teaches public health at Cornell University.

Sheús the author of "Ungoverned and Out of Sight: Public Health and the Political Crisis of Homelessness in the United States."

Charley, in the filings for this case Grants Pass as well there these laws are about public health and public safety.

The two homeless people who have brought this case say itús really about pushing homeless people out of the -- out of Grants Pass getting them to move on to go someplace else.

Whatús your take on that?

CHARLEY WILLISON, Cornell University: This is such an important question.

And what this case is really getting at is a deep tension that American cities face when thinking about how to respond to homelessness across the country, but especially in West Coast cities that have very limited shelter capacity, and are also in the midst of a housing crisis.

And these two tensions that Iúd like to emphasize are that cities generally use much more punitive policies these criminalization approaches that are at the heart of Johnson versus Grants Pass to effectively punish people who are experiencing homelessness for behaviors that are associated with the realities of homelessness.

Now, importantly, the use of these punitive policies actually facilitate cycles of homelessness and does not effectively end homelessness.

While the alternative addressing homelessness through the use of more housing, as well as housing paired with access to social and medical services, does successfully end homelessness.

However, we have seen cities across the United States have much less emphasis on the use of housing and supportive services compared to these punitive policies that are at the heart of this case.

JOHN YANG: But at the same time, these camping bans are really spreading just this spring.

Governor DeSantis and Florida signed a ban statewide banning camping in public places.

But you say this really doesnút help homelessness is it, does it hurt it?

CHARLEY WILLISON: So these camping bans and other broadly punitive responses again, where we see people who are experiencing homelessness being either find through civil penalties or criminalized through criminal penalties for realities associated with homelessness, whether it is sleeping in public sitting down in public eating public, things like this do actually promote cycles of homelessness.

Now, the Florida law that is in question is a ban on camping.

However, it is also using an interim solution where there are temporary shelters and that will hopefully be used, as opposed to criminalizing people.

So banning camping as opposed to incarcerating people, or finding people directing people into temporary shelters, which appear to be sanctioned camping sites.

JOHN YANG: What about the ballot proposal that narrowly passed earlier this year in California that directs counties to spend more money on housing programs and drug treatment programs?

Will that help?

Will that make a difference?

CHARLEY WILLISON: Proposition one in California, which passed just about a month ago, this raises the issue of the housing crisis itself, and the need for West Coast cities in particular, but especially cities across the United States, to engage in more housing based solutions, which are the only solution that effectively successfully ends homelessness.

Across the country having these investments and in California, especially where there are by far very limited or far more limited shelter and housing opportunities compared to other East Coast cities.

For example, having more accountability, where cities are required to spend a certain proportion of their budgets on housing will likely help improve the situation and require cities to engage in these evidence based policies which are far more effective.

JOHN YANG: From your perspective, whatús the public health issue or whatús the public health effect implications of homelessness?

CHARLEY WILLISON: There are many, many grave public health effects of homelessness.

If we think about homelessness, in general, people experiencing homelessness, whether it is short term or long term face group far greater morbidity and mortality compared to the general population.

And this is both in the short term and the long term.

For example, we know that people who are experiencing sheltered homelessness, so this is when they donút have to sleep outside, they have a place to go their mortality rates are about three times higher than the general population.

Whereas people who are experiencing unsheltered homelessness, which is the population that is at the heart of this court case, have mortality rates are about 10 times higher than the general population.

So when weúre thinking about population health and homelessness is absolutely a public health problem because of the grave and dire consequences for people and their health in these ways.

JOHN YANG: In your view, whatús at stake in this case?

CHARLEY WILLISON: There are many things at stake in this case, but I would say probably the most important thing is again, going back to this tension, where cities have placed a lot of very robust resources in these punitive responses to homelessness.

Now, if they are allowed to continue to do this, the question will be whether or not cities will be incentivized to create these alternative solutions using housing paired with social medical services, which we know actually successfully ends homelessness.

However, if the court rules in favor of Johnson, we I think this is a very big opportunity for cities to engage in these evidence based solutions and make investments especially in West Coast cities, where they have not previously done so, so that we may actually successfully reduce and end homelessness.

JOHN YANG: Charley Willison of Cornell University.

Thank you very much.

CHARLEY WILLISON: Thank you so much.

JOHN YANG: In some cities with growing numbers of homeless people, the issue goes beyond encampments and public places.

Theyúre also coping with more people living in cars and RVs parked on city streets.

Montana PBSús Joe Lesar reports on how city leaders in Bozeman Montana are dealing with the tensions arising from this more visible display of homelessness.

STEVEN ANKNEY, Bozeman resident: Terry, oh, man, you got to have thick skin out here.

BELINDA ANKNEY, Bozeman resident: Oh, we got the windows broke out.

Not went up there.

Itús just completely gone.

STEVEN ANKNEY: Yeah, that oneús had the BB come through there.

JOE LESAR (voice-over): Steve and Belinda Ankney, have been living in their trailer on the streets of Bozeman for the past three years.

STEVEN ANKNEY: We take plates around or if people are having a hard time and theyúre not eating, theyúll stop by and ask if we can help her anyway.

JOE LESAR (voice-over): The rising cost of living has only compounded issues they Iúve been facing for years.

BELINDA ANKNEY: I was raised with the drugs.

I was raised with the alcohol.

Thatús all I knew.

JOE LESAR (voice-over): Both have struggled with addiction.

Belinda works full time at a restaurant.

But health issues made worse by inconsistent access to care have affected Stevenús ability to work.

BELINDA ANKNEY: One of the biggest misconceptions is that we want to be here that weúre not trying to get out.

JOE LESAR (voice-over): Belindaús legal troubles out another barrier to securing housing.

BELINDA ANKNEY: Yeah, the mental health issues.

The drug issues the in and out of incarceration not getting the right help not being on the right meds, you know, just as (inaudible).

JOE LESAR (voice-over): Urban camping as itús been named, has increased by 200 percent in the last two years, according to city officials.

Itús a growing issue.

Itús increasingly dividing Bozeman.

WOMAN: If Bozeman is too expensive to live in, choose another place to live.

MAN: But it feels more like a warzone with all these housing crises and no solutions to anything.

MAN: Bozeman doesnút owe anybody anything.

MAN: Iúve never seen or been in a city where thereús so much conflict over how this homelessness thing.

JOE LESAR (voice-over): To tackle this growing issue, Bozeman recently implemented a new ordinance limiting camping in the same spot to 30 days with an option for filing for an extension.

There are rules about keeping camps clean, and after three warnings $25 civil penalties will be issued.

If unsanitary conditions continue, the city can clear camp 72 hours after giving notice.

But some are criticizing city leaders for putting too much of a burden on the unhoused.

Others feel theyúre being too lenient.

Mayor Terry Cunningham says the rules about where camping will be allowed will help make the situation more manageable.

MAYOR TERRY CUNNINGHAM, Bozeman, Montana: You canút be parked in front of a business, you canút be parked in front of a school, childcare facility, residence, et cetera.

So narrowing the areas that it is acceptable to camp in front of is important so we can get some level of predictability and control.

JOE LESAR (voice-over): But many camps are already in compliance with those rules.

A group of businesses are suing the city alleging that it is refusing to enforce existing laws within the homeless encampments.

Andrew Hinnenkamp runs one of the businesses involved in the lawsuit.

ANDREW HINNENKAMP, Principal, Modulus Corporation: Early on, we had some thefts of services on the property.

We had a little bit of a harassment interaction with an employee and one of the individuals.

TERRY CUNNINGHAM: homelessness has always been on the radar.

This with urban camping are Vús more cars.

This is a recent phenomenon.

JOE LESAR (voice-over): Because of the generators, new model cars and TV antennas, thereús a sentiment in Bozeman that people are choosing to camp in order to save money on housing.

City officials acknowledged that some people are doing that and will be asked to move on.

But figuring out who those people are comes with challenges.

TERRY CUNNINGHAM: One of the difficulties is having the discussion and saying why are you currently homeless?

We -- they are not required to provide us with that information and often are uncomfortable answering those types of questions.

JOE LESAR (voice-over): The population of people experiencing homelessness in Bozeman has increased by 50 percent since 2020.

In the groups providing services to this growing population have struggled to meet the demand.

HEATHER GRENIER, President, Human Resources Development Council: As a result of COVID there was this big uptick in demand and there was this outpouring of support.

And now that outpouring of support has dropped off, but the demand has stayed up at this level and the resources are very insufficient to meet the need.

JOE LESAR (voice-over): Heather Grenier, who runs the nonprofit Human Resource Development Council, says her organizationús caseload is at capacity.

And there are not many alternatives available.

HEATHER GRENIER: Itús remarkably difficult because thereús no pathway for us to help them.

Thereús no housing.

Thereús no rental assistance to help them get into housing.

And even if there were a housing unit, thereús no transitional housing.

JOE LESAR (voice-over): Usage of HRDC overnight shelter has nearly doubled since 2019.

Some of that needs should be eased when theyúre new 24/7 shelter opens, but thatús not expected until next year.

Grenier believes this newer, more visible form of homelessness has caused a shift in attitudes around Bozeman.

HEATHER GRENIER: Just general sentiment that everyone deserves the safe warm place to sleep is that doesnút really resonate with everyone anymore.

BELINDA ANKNEY: Are we out?

Are we out for it?

STEVEN ANKNEY: No.

Iúve seen not.

I donút know.

BELINDA ANKNEY: OK. JOE LESAR (voice-over): Cost between a lack of services and a frustrated community, are people like Steven and Belinda?

STEVEN ANKNEY: There are good people in Bozeman there.

Yeah.

Itús just the ugly overshadows the good so bad.

This is what itús about.

We are having me struggles and we are having these problems.

But as soon as we get through them, we are going to be okay.

We are going to get to the other side.

JOE LESAR (voice-over): Yeah.

For PBS News Weekend, Iúm Joe Lesar in Bozeman, Montana.

JOHN YANG: And that is PBS News Weekend for this Sunday.

Iúm John Yang.

For all of my colleagues, thanks for joining us.

Have a good week.