THELELE, AND THE CHARLES A. FRUEAUFF FOUNDATION.
>> THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY... >> FIRST, THE OFTEN IGNORED TIES BETWEEN SEXISM AND RACISM.
THEN, A STAR-STUDDED CALL FOR REVIVING THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT.
BEHIND THE HEADLINES THE FREELANCE ECONOMY.
GOOD OR BAD FOR WOMEN?
[♪♪♪] >> HELLO I'M BONNIE ERBE WELCOME TO THE CONTRARY A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL FRIENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.
UP FIRST, THE CHARLESTON CHURCH SHOOTING.
>> FUNERALS FOR THE NINE MEN AND WOMEN MURDERED IN THE CHARLETON CHURCH SHOOTING CONTINUE INTO NEXT WEEK WHILE THE NATION GRAPPLES WITH HOW TO IMPROVE RACE RELATIONS.
SOUTHERN STATES CONSIDER ENDING THE USE OF THE CONFEDERATE FLAG AS AN HISTORICAL EMBLEM.
LAST WEEK'S SHOOTING PROMPTED CHLOE ANGYAL OF THE NEW REPUBLIC TO WRITE AN OPINION COLUMN OUTLINING WHAT SHE SEES AS WHITE WOMEN'S PART IN RACIST VIOLENCE.
IN A COLUMN TITLED "I DON'T WANT TO BE AN EXCUSE FOR RACIST VIOLENCE ANYMORE" SHE CONSIDERS THE KILLER'S MOTIVE FOR KILLING BLACK PEOPLE.
YOU ARE RAPING OUR WOMEN AND TAKING OVER OUR COUNTRY.
>> HE SAID A VERBALIZED VERSION OF A SENSE AND SENSIBILITY THAT PERSUADES AMERICAN CULTURE.
>> RACISM HAS BEEN A DEFENSE OF SEXUAL PURITY OF WHITE WOMEN.
ANGYAL BELIEVES IT IS COMPLICATED.
THEY GO HAND AND HAND.
ONE CANNOT FUNCTION WITHOUT THE OTHER.
IF ONE IS PRESENT SO IS THE OTHER.
>> SHE ARGUES WHITE WOMEN HAVE TO STAND UP AND DECRY VIOLENCE DONE IN THEIR NAME.
>> IF YOU ARE THE KIND OF WOMAN WHO GETS OUTRAGED BY SIXISM AS SHOULD BE COMMUNIST OF JUST AS OUTRAGED AS RACISM.
BECAUSE WILL YOU NOT END ONE WITHOUT ENDING THE OTHER.
>> WHY IS THE LANGUAGE OF LYNCHING STILL BEING USED ESPECIALLY BY A YOUNG PERSON IN THE 21ST CENTURY?
>> BONNIE, MAYBE IT IS A SIPE OF RACIAL PROGRESS.
THIS 21-YEAR-OLD JUSTIFIED HIS RACISM HAD TO REACH BACK TO ANCIENT KANARDS.
LIKE THE CONFEDERATE FLAG AND BLACK MEN RAPE WHITE WOMEN.
>> YEAH, ELEANOR IS RIGHT.
THIS IS SO TRAGIC AND SAD FOR THE COUNTRY.
BUT I THINK THIS IS MORE OF AN OUTLIER THAN THE MAINSTREAM.
>> I THINK THAT IS RIGHT.
WE WANTED TO SEE THIS AS THE ANOMALY BUT POWER, FEAR AND POWERLESSNESS ARE THE DRIVING FORCES WHY PEOPLE DO THESE HORRIBLE ACTS.
>> I COULD NOT AGREE MORE.
THIS IS A CRUTCH HE IS USING.
HE WANTED TO INSIGHT TERROR IN OTHERS AND HAD A HATRED OF PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT SKIN COLORS.
>> DO WHITE WOMEN HAVE A BURDEN AS CHLOE ANGYAL WROTE TO COME OUT AND FIGHT VIOLENT RACISM BECAUSE WE ACCORDING TO HER, BENEFIT FROM IT?
>> BACKUP A BIT AND SAY THAT HISTORICALLY SHE IS CORRECT.
THERE'S BEEN SORT OF A PERVERSE INTERSECTION BETWEEN THE WAY THAT WE TALK ABOUT WOMEN AND THE WAY WE TALK ABOUT RACE.
GO BACK TO THE 18TH, 19TH CENTURIES THIS IS PERVASIVE.
AND WOMEN ARE AT THE FOREFRONT OF THE ABOLITIONIST MOVEMENT SO THERE'S BEEN AN INTERSECTION.
BUT I STOP THERE AND SAY I FIND THIS CRIME SO HORRIFYING NOT BECAUSE I AM A WHITE WOMAN BUT BECAUSE I AM A HUMAN BEING AND YOU LOOK AROUND AT THE COUNTRY AND THINK THIS IS A HORRIBLE ACT THAT HAPPENED.
IF IT WAS DONE IN THE NAME OF PROTECTING ME, THAT IS DISGUSTING.
BUT I'M NOT SURE I HAVE MORE OF A RESPONSIBILITY TO STAND UP AGAINST IT.
>> I'VE NEVER HEARD WHITE WOMEN SPEAK OUT IN THE WORST DAYS OF RACISM SAYING PROTECT US FROM THE BLACK MEN.
INDEED, I THINK IT'S THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
THE FIRST ABOLITIONISTS WERE WHITE WOMEN NOT WHITE MEN AND THE NATIONAL POLITICAL CAUCUS OF WHATEVER, THE NATIONAL WOMEN'S POLITICAL CAUCUS I REMEMBER THEY SAID THEY WERE EQUALLY AGAINST RACISM AND SEXISM.
I THINK WHITE WOMEN HAVE BEEN UP FRONT NOT LAGGING BEHIND ON THIS SCORE.
>> AS A BROWN WOMAN I AM CONFUSED.
I DO NOT AT.
WHERE ARE WE AT IN 2015 ARGUING FOR A SYMBOL OF THE CONFEDERATE FLAG AND TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN SOUTH CAROLINA IN THE WAKE OF THIS STRATEGY.
IT'S -- TRAGEDY.
IT IS TERROR ON OUR GROUNDS AND I'M NOT SURE HAVING WHITE WOMEN ARE NOT BLACK STAND UP AND SAY WHAT HAPPENED IN THE CHURCH WAS WRONG.
IT HAS TO GO BACK TO THE FAMILY.
I'M STILL CURIOUS WHO THE SHOOTER'S MOTHER WAS.
WE KNEW IN NEWTOWN WHAT HAPPENED.
YOUNG CHILDREN WERE SHOT BUT WE DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE FAMILY OF THIS SHOOTER.
FOR US TO JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS WE DON'T KNOW.
AND THOSE DETAILS WILL BE REVEALED AND KNOW MORE ABOUT THE ROLE OF WOMEN AND WHAT WE CAN DO MOVING FORWARD.
>> YOU KNOW, IT JUST OCCURRED TO ME, HOW COME WE'RE JUST FINDING OUT NOW AND WE'RE JUST ACTING NOW ABOUT GETTING RID OF THE CONFEDERATE FLAG ON STATE CAPITOLS ON LICENSE PLATES?
I MEAN THIS IS A -- I'M SORRY FOR ANYBODY FEELS THIS IS AN HISTORIC LEGACY THAT IS NOT -- THAT IS ABOUT HISTORY AND IT'S NOT ABOUT RACISM.
BUT FOR MOST PEOPLE LOOKING AT THE CONFEDERATE FLAG WHITE, BLACK, ORANGE, PURPLE OR GREEN, YOU KNOW IT WAS THE SIGN OF THE SOUTH AND THE SOUTH TREATED AFRICAN-AMERICANS UNBELIEVABLY.
AND WELL AFTER QUITE FRANKLY, THE NORTH DID.
AND WHY ARE WE FINDING OUT ABOUT THAT?
WHY ARE WE JUST FINDING OUT THAT LOTS OF WHITE COPS ARE KILLING UNARMED BLACK MEN AND WOMEN FOR THAT MATTER?
>> IN BOTH CASES IT'S THE SAME THING; THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE FIGHTING AGAINST BOTH FOR A LONGTIME.
AND THE SOUTH CAROLINA CONFEDERATE FLAG WHICH USED TO FLY AS A COMPROMISE THAT BROUGHT IT DOWN USED TO FLY ON THE TOP OF THEIR STATE CAPITOL.
>> AND DIDN'T FLY FOR 100 YEARS AFTER THE CIVIL WAR BROUGHT BACK IN '62 BY WHITE MALE LEGISLATORS OPPOSED TO THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT WHEN JOHNSON WAS IN POWER.
>> SAME ON SHAME ON THE SOUTH.
IF THEY WANTED TO MAKE THIS A HERITAGE MATTER IN '62 THEY WOULD HAVE SAID DO NOT RAISE THE CONFEDERATE FLAG TO SUPPORT RACISM.
WE WERE FIGHTING FOR OUR PART IN THE COUNTRY.
BUT INSTEAD THEY HAVE ALLOWED IT TO BE PE REVMENTLOINED.
ALLOWEDDED IT TO BE USED BY RACISTS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND NOT SPEAKING UP THEY HAVE NO RIGHT NOW TO SAY KEEP IT.
>> THERE HAVE BEEN MORE PEOPLE KILLED IN THE COUNTRY BY WHITE EXTREMISTS THAN BY JIHADDISTS.
HOW DOES THAT WORK?
>> I THINK IT'S TOUGH TO BRING ALL OF THESE THINGS TOGETHER.
I DO THINK WE HAVE TO BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT WHEN WE USE THE WORD TERRORISM.
THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT INDIVIDUALS ENGAGE IN WHAT ARE LEGITIMATELY THOUGHT TORE TERRORIST ACTS.
BUT THERE IS, IF YOU WILL, A WAR THAT WE ARE WAGING AGAINST ISIS AND AL-QAEDA.
SO WHEN INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE SYMPATHIES TOWARDS THEM DO THINGS WE SHOULD THINK OF THOSE THINGS SEPARATELY AND DISCREET.
THE WAR AT THE LEGAL LEVEL HAS BEEN CHANGED BY THE SUPREME COURT, BY OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TIME AND AGAIN.
AS WE JUST DISCUSSED.
YOU KNOW, THIS SHOOTER IS THE ANOMALY.
HE IS THE OUTLIER.
WHAT HE DID AND THE RACISM THAT EXISTS IS UNACCEPTABLE.
AND WHILE THERE MAY STILL BE INSTITUTIONAL RACISM THAT PERVADES YOU CAN LOOK AT THE SUPREME COURT'S DECISION THAT CAME DOWN ON HOUSING WHICH SAID THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE OVERT FOR IT TO BE REAL.
>> I THINK WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT HOW WE TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS AND DISTINGUISH THESE THINGS.
BECAUSE THE ONE THING I WILL SAY, AND I'VE SAID IT BEFORE, WE HAVE THE FEWEST NUMBER OF RACISTS IN THE COUNTRY THAN WE HAVE EVER HAD ON A PERCENTAGE BASIS.
THE COUNTRY HAD A MUCH LARGER PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO BELIEVED IN SEGREGATION AND RACIAL PREJUDICE AND THEY WERE THE NORM.
>> ANGYAL SAID TO ME THAT ALL WHITE WOMEN ARE RACIST AND NEED TO ADMIT THEM TO THEMSELVES AND ACT ON IT.
YOUR THOUGHTS?
>> WHAT SHE IS TALKING ABOUT IS THE LONG PERCEIVED AND UNDERSTOOD AND RESEARCHED SORT OF TRUTHFULLY HISTORY OF THE HEIRARCHY THAT GOES WITH SOCIAL CONSTRUCTIONS.
SO THESE SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED IDEAS OF WHAT WHITE WOMEN HOOD IS ABOUT OR WHAT BLAM WOMENHOOD IS ABOUT PERVADE THE STEREOTYPES THAT EXIST IN OUR COUNTRY.
AND THERE IS, I THINK, SOME LEGITIMACY TO WHAT SHE IS SAYING.
BUT I WOULD HATE TO THINK THIS WOULD DIVIDE WOMEN AGAINST THE PERVASIVE PROBLEM WHICH IS WE HAVE TO STOP ALL OF THESE KINDS OF ACTS.
>> I WONDER IF HER WRITING DRIVES ONE MORE WEDGE BETWEEN WHITE AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN.
DO YOU FEEL THAT WAY?
>> AND A WEDGE WE DON'T NEED.
TO BLAME WHITE WOMEN FOR THE KID DOES IS FAR AFIELD.
WHITE WOMEN AND BLACK WOMEN ARE TOGETHER ON THIS AND BROWN WOMEN AS FAR AS HE WAS CONCERNED, YOU WOULD BE BLACK.
>> NO DOUBT.
>> TRUE.
ANYWAY, LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.
FOLLOW ME OPPORTUNITY TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.
FROM CHARLESTON TO CAPITOL HILL HILL... THREE-TIME ACADEMY AWARD WINNER MERYL STREEP IS LOBBYING CONGRESS FOR THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT AND CALLS ON THEM TO REFLECT ON THE ISSUES OF INWE QUALITY FACED BY THE WOMEN IN THEIR LIVES.
QUOTE I'M WRITING TO YOU TO ASK YOU TO STAND UP FOR EQUALITY FOR YOUR MOTHER, YOUR DAUGHTER YOUR SISTER, YOUR WIFE OR YOURSELF.
THE AMENDMENT WAS WRITTEN IN 1920 AND PASSED IN 1972.
HOWEVER IT FAILED TO BE RATIFIED BY THE REQUIRED NUMBER IN 308 STATES.
A NEW GENERATION OF WOMEN AND GIRLS IS TALKING ABOUT EQUALITY, EQUAL PAY, EQUAL PROTECTION FROM SEXUAL ASSAULT.
EQUAL RIGHTS.
>> WILL STAR POWER BE ENOUGH TO MOVE THE ERA?
>> I DON'T THINK ANYTHING WILL MOVE THE ERA.
WE ARE LOOKING AT A CONSERVATIVE CONGRESS AND WE KNOW THAT IT'S UNLIKELY GIVEN THE PARTY SORT OF PARITY IN OUR COUNTRY AND THE POLARIZATION THAT EXITS BOTH CHAMBERS WOULD BE ABLE TO PASS ANY LAW BY TWO-THIRDS.
I DO NOT IMAGINE IT MOVING FORWARD.
>> AND YOU HAVE INTERESTING DATA WHEN THE DEMOCRATS MAY BE BE POSITIONED TO TAKE BACK CONGRESS?
>> WELL, POLITICAL SCIENTISTS LOOKED AT THIS AND TALKED ABOUT THIS.
GENERALLY SPEAKING SHOULD HILLARY CLINTON WIN THE PRESIDENCY IT'S UNLIKELY THAT THE DEMOCRATS WOULD BE ABLE TO WIN THE HOUSE UNTIL 2022 WHEN THERE WOULD BE A MIDTERM, IF YOU WILL, SIX-YEAR ITCH ON THAT PRESIDENCY.
>> THOUGHTS?
>> A DOR MERYL STREEP SO IT PAINS ME TO THINK I MIGHT BE ON THE OTHER SIDE ON THIS ISSUE.
BUT I THINK THIS IS WHERE THERE IS PERHAPS LOST IN TRANSLATION IS WHAT THE ERA WOULD DO.
AND RIGHT NOW WOMEN ARE EQUALLY PROTECTED UNDER THE LAW.
AND THE ERA WOULD GIVE WOMEN EQUAL RIGHTS UNDER THE LAW.
FOREMORE EXTREME FEMINISTSTH IS IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO ATTACK THE GENDER SYSTEM.
LIKE SINGLE SEX EDUCATION, GIRL SCOUTS, BOY SCOUTS AND GIRLS TOYS COULD BE UNATTACK IN THE LAW.
AND THAT IS WHERE PEOPLE DO NOT REALIZE DIFFERENT THAN TALKING ABOUT RACES THAT RACES ARE ABSOLUTELY EQUAL EVEN IF PEOPLE LOOK DIFFERENT.
SEXES ARE DIFFERENT.
WE HAVE DIFFERENT BIOLOGY AND WE ARE DIFFERENT AND THERE ARE TIMES WHERE IT MAY BENEFIT TO BE SEPARATED AND THAT SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T WANT TO UNDERMINE IN THE NAME OF EQUALITY.
WE WANT TO SEE WOMEN AND GIRLS THRIVE AND DO WELL.
>> I HAVE TO -- THE AMENDMENT WOULD BE ABOUT STATE ACTION.
SO GIRLS TOYS AND BOYS TOYS WOULD NOT BE UNDER ATTACK.
IT IS TRUE THERE COULD BE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.
AND IN 1972 WHEN THE AMENDMENT FIRST WENT FORWARD.
THE CLIMATE DOES NOT EVEN ALLOW US TO GET A SMALL REFORM UPDATING OF THE EQUAL PAY ACT.
AND IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT IN A -- >> HOW DO YOU AND THE OTHER WOMEN LEADERS IN CONGRESS WANTED TO UPDATE IT?
>> WE WANT THE PAYCHECK FAIRNESS ACT WHICH WOULD ALLOW CLASS ACTIONS FOR EXAMPLE.
WE -- THESE ARE NOTHING THAT CHANGE THE BASIC OUTLINE.
AND WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET THAT FOR 10 YEARS NOW.
NOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT?
I SHOULD NOTE WHEN THIS IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT AS A LAWYER, WHO GINSBERG ARGUED THE 14TH AMENDMENT COVERS WOMEN.
WE HAVE MADE SOME PROGRESS EVEN THOUGH WE ARE NOT FULLY THERE WITH -- YOU ARE RIGHT.
THE 14TH AMENDMENT IS PROTECTION.
WHAT IS THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT WOULD DO WOULD ALLOW WOMEN TO BE MORE PRO-ACTIVE.
>> AND THE CLIMATE IN CONGRESS RIGHT NOW IS WORSE THAN WHEN YOU STARTED TRYING TO -- WAY WORSE.
>> AND INDEED.
YOU GOT A CONGRESS THAT LET THE APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE RUN OUT BEFORE THEY DID ANYTHING ABOUT IT BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT WANTED TO BY EXECUTIVE ORDER CHANGE THINGS FOR THE FAMILIES UNDER THE IMMIGRATION LAW.
SO YOU KNOW, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE FAR LESS MOMENTUM THAN THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT THAT WE CANNOT GET DONE IN CONGRESS TODAY.
>> AND THE ADVANCEMENT OF WOMEN AND GIRLS WITH THE TECHNOLOGY IN THIS FIGHT.
AND WHAT IS HAPPENING IN CONGRESS, I TEND TO AGREE ON THE PIECEMEAL APPROACH.
IF WE ARE GOING TO MAKE A PUSH MERYL STREEP SHE HAS HER OWN SORT OF MOTIVATIONS IN THIS.
THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK HOW THINGS ARE IN HOLLYWOOD FOR WOMEN LIKE HER, SUPERSTARS.
>> I WILL ADD THAT I THINK DISCRIMINATION EXISTS AND THERE ARE BAD PEOPLE OUT THERE MEN WHO ARE CRASS AND EVERY INDUSTRY AND WE'VE ALL ENCOUNTERED IT.
BUT I DO THINK THERE IS THIS TENSION THAT WE HAVE WHERE THERE IS CONSTANTLY THIS REFRAIN THAT THE WORKPLACE THAT SOCIETY IS SORT OF OUT TO GET WOMEN.
THAT SOCIETY IS RIFE WITH SEXISM AND I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT IS THE CASE.
I BELIEVE THERE ARE BAD INDIVIDUALS BUT ON BALANCE, LIFE IN AMERICA IS GOOD FOR WOMEN AND GIRLS.
AND SOMETIMES THE CONVERSATIONS PERPETUATE A BAD MESSAGE FOR GIRLS.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT CHANGE.
>> I'M SORRY WE HAVE TO LET THAT GO.
BECAUSE IN SOME WAYS, THINGS ARE WORSE.
REMEMBER THAT THERE WERE TWO PERIODS AND WE ARE ABOUT TO CELEBRATE THE GRANTING OF THE RIGHT TO VOTE.
AND 2020.
AND DURING THE 1970s, WE REALLY GOT MORE THAN A THIRD OF THE STATES OPPORTUNITY THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT.
SO THE NOTION THAT THINGS ARE SO MUCH BETTER NOW, THE EVIDENCE, I THINK POINTS THE OTHER WAY.
YES, WE'VE MADE PROGRESS BUT THERE'S NOT BEEN STEAMROLLER PROGRESS.
WE ARE STUCK NOW.
>> AND THE OTHER THING I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT BEFORE WE CUT BECAUSE WE ARE OUT OF TIME, THERE HAVE BEEN PROGRESS AND THERE'S BEEN BACKWARDS MOTION.
IT DEPEPPEDS ON THE FIELD.
I WAS ON THE PHONE WITH THE HIGH LEVEL INTEL EXECUTIVE AND THEIR BIG THING IS GETTING MORE WOMEN INTO STEM AND SHE TOLD ME THAT SHE RETIRED AFTER 25 YEARS AT THE COMPANY.
THE YEAR SHE STARTED CARNEGIE MELON STARTED WOMEN IN COMPUTER SCIENCE PROGRAM THERE WERE 37% WOMEN IN THE FOLLOWING CLASS.
THERE ARE NOW 11%.
SO THERE ARE FIELDS WHERE WE HAVE GONE NOTHING BUT FAR BACK.
BEHIND THE HEADLINES RESEARCH SHOWS A MAJOR ACTIVE OF FREE LAPSERS ARE WOMEN.
BECAUSE FREELANCING IS FEMINIST ACCORDING TO SARA HOROWITZ THE HEAD OF THE FREELANCERS UNION.
SHE SAYS WORK FOR HIRE CAN BE ATONIC TO THE MALE-DOMINATED CORPORATE CULTURE.
>> FREELANCING IS FEMINIST BECAUSE IT GIVES WOMEN A WAY TO START ORDERING THEIR LIVES IN A WAY THAT ACTUALLY MAKES ACCEPTS TO THE WAY PEOPLE AND WOMEN WANT TO LEAD THEIR LIVES.
SO INSTEAD OF HAVING IT BE THAT WE ALL HAVE TO GO TO A 9-5 JOB AND FOR WOMEN THAT FREQUENTLY MEANS DOING THE SECOND AND THIRD SHIFT OF TAKING CARE OF CHILDREN AND THEIR PARENTS, IT'S NOW A WAY FOR WOMEN IN PARTICULAR, TO START TO SAY WHAT DO I REALLY WANT TO DO WITH MY LIFE?
AND HOW CAN I FIT THE PIECES TOGETHER IN A WAY THAT SAY FULLER LIFE FOR ME?
>> ACCORDING TO A STUDY COLLISIONED WOMEN ARE -- COMMISSION WOMEN ARE MORE LIKELY TO SAY SCHEDULE FLEXIBILITY IS A REASON WAY WORK FREELANCE.
>> WOMEN WANT TO PUT TOGETHER A LIFE THAT LETS THEM BE A WHOLE PERSON.
IT'S NOT THAT WOMEN ARE SAYING I WANT TO HAVE THIS CAREER AND I DON'T WANT TO WORRY ABOUT TAKING CARE OF CHILDREN.
I AM A WORKING MOTHER AND I VALUE AND HAVE ALWAYS VALUED SPENDING A LOT OF TIME WITH MY KIDS.
AND I THINK THAT WE INSTEAD OF THIS CONCEPT HAVING IT ALL IT'S JUST I WANT TO BE A HUMAN BEING.
AND A HUMAN BEING MEANS THAT YOU HAVE A FULL LIFE.
A LIFE OF LOVE AND A LIFE OF THINGS YOU ARE INTERESTED IN AND A LIFE OF WORK.
AND YOU CAN PUT THAT TOGETHER IN A MORE SANE WAY.
>> ON THE OTHER HAND, MOST FREELANCING JOBS DO NOT OFFER BENEFITS THAT COME WITH SALARIED POSITIONS.
THIS CAN BE DIFFICULT FOR WOMEN ESPECIALLY MOTHERS.
BUT HOROWITZ SAYS SALARIED WOMEN FACE THESE ISSUES.
>> THERE ARE NOT MANY JOBS NOWADAYS THAT ARE FULL-TIME, WITH BENEFITS, THAT GIVE PEOPLE CHILDCARE BENEFITS.
THAT IS NOT THE EXPERIENCE NOW OF AMERICANS.
IT MAY NOT COME FROM YOUR JOB, BUT NFERS, AS YOU -- NEVERTHELESS, AS YOU AGE YOU STILL NEED A RETIREMENT PLAN THAT YOU MAY NOT GET HEALTH INSURANCE PAID FOR FROM YOUR JOB.
BUT AS A CITIZEN, YOU NEED TO HAVE THAT.
AND WE NEED GROUPS LIKE FREELANCERS UNION, THE DOMESTIC WORKERS, THE GUEST WORKERS, PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATIONS CHAMBERS STARTING TO PLAY A ROLE IN BRINGING TOGETHER THESE BENEFITS SO THEY CAN HELP THEIR MEMBERS CHOOSE THE RIGHT PLANS FOR THEM.
>> HOROWITZ SAYS ANOTHER REASON WOMEN BECOME FREELANCERS IS TO ESCAPE THE QUOTE OLD BOYS CLUBS THEY FEEL STIFLED THEM IN COMPANY JOBS.
FREELANCERS ARE NOT SEPARATED FROM OFFICE POLITICS, HOROWITZ SAYS FREELANCING HAS ITS OWN CULTURE.
>> IT'S NOT THAT FREELANCERS ARE SAYING OH, WE ARE JUST GOING TO AVOID THAT AND GO HERE AND DO IT THIS WAY.
BECAUSE FREELANCERS STILL HAVE TO GO INTO CORPORATE AMERICA AS FREELANCERS AND DO ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT WORK.
>> FREELANCING, THOUGH, CAN REALLY MAKE IT A SAFER ENVIRONMENT TO JUST DO YOUR OWN WORK IN YOUR OWN WAY.
AND IT DOES HAVE A DIFFERENT CULTURE.
IT IS ALL ABOUT BUILDING UP YOUR NETWORK AND CONNECTIONS TO OTHER PEOPLE.
AND BUILDING UP TEAMS.
AND THESE ARE THINGS THAT WOMEN HAVE AS A STRENGTH.
>> WHILE FREELANCING MAY ALLEVIATE PROBLEMS ONLY TOTAL CULTURAL CHANGE CAN DISMANTLE THE MONKEY BARS.
>> WE STILL DON'T SEE THE STRENGTH AND VALUE THAT WOMEN BRING TO THE TABLE.
WHAT FREELANCING DOES, IT LETS YOU OPEN UP THESE POSSIBILITIES A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN BEFORE.
BUT NOT NEARLY ENOUGH.
>> AND NOT ENOUGH MONEY AS FAR AS MOST OF THE FREELANCERS I TALK TO ARE CONCERNED.
HOW DOES IT WORK?
>> I AM THE HUSTLE AND THE UNCERTAINTY OF THE PAYCHECK IS TOUGH BUT I WILL NOT LIE.
BUT THE TRADE OFFS ARE GREAT AND THE FLEXIBILITY OF SCHEDULES AND LEAVING THE POLITICS OF OFFICES IS GREAT.
I WOULD NOT TRAIN IT FOR ANYTHING.
I'M ENTERING MY FIFTH YEAR.
AND.
>> 53 PERCENT OF WOMEN THAT ARE FREE PLANSERS.
>> I HAVE SEEN THIS BECAUSE MY MOM HAS BEEN IN REAL ESTATE.
AND SHE WAS A BROKER AND SHE BOUGHT PROPERTIES AND SOLD THEM.
AND HAS DONE SORT OF DEALS FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SHE ALWAYS USED TO SAY IS AFTER EVERY DEAL I'M UNEMPLOYED.
IT WAS DIFFICULT BUT IT WAS GREAT SHE WAS ABLE TO RAISE ME AS A SINGLE MOM BUT TOUGH TO MAKE SURE THERE WAS ALWAYS ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY THE BILLS AND BUY THE GROCERIES.
>> THE REAL FREELANCE ECONOMY STARTED ABOUT 20 PLUS YEARS AGO WHERE REALLY JOBS NO LONGER CAME BUNDLED WITH VACATIONS WITH HEALTHCARE, NOW OF COURSE THERE'S OBAMACARE.
BUT AND WITH ALL KINDS OF BENEFITS THAT THE POST WORLD WAR II BOOMER GENERATION THOSE PEOPLE BECAUSE THERE WAS A SHORTAGE OF LABOR IN THE 40s AND 50s, THE COMPANIES STARTED PACKAGING BENEFITS WITH FULL-TIME JOBS AND GUARANTEED MONEY AND SOME CASES OVERTIME.
BUT ALL OF THAT HAS FALLEN APART.
>> VERY MUCH SO.
AND THERE ARE TWO THINGS.
ONE WHAT WOMEN WANT AND THAT IS WHY FLEXIBILITY WORKING MOTHERS WANT.
AND IT IS A CHANGE IN THE ECONOMY.
I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE LUNCH WITH HENRY TIMES WHO WROTE A GREAT ARTICLE IN HARVARD BUSINESS REVIEW YESTERDAY AND HE TALKED ABOUT THE SHIFT FROM OLD POWER TO NEW POWER AND THIS IS WHAT WE ARE SEEING.
THE OLD-NEW ROOMS ARE CHANGING AND THERE IS A COMBINATION OF PEOPLE WANTS TO GET OUT OF THE SPACE AND THE INDUSTRY CHANGING.
THE DIRECTION AND NOT HAVING AS MUCH MONEY.
WE ARE SEEING THE WORLDS INTERSECT.
>> AND THE IMPACT ON WOMEN.
>> IT'S NOT JUST A QUESTION OF ONE INDUSTRY BUT THE HUGE ADVANTAGES CORPORATES HAVE OVER EMPLOYEES.
IT'S PART OF INCOME INEQUAINT.
ONE OF THE HUGE DISADVANTAGES THE ECONOMIC SECURITY THAT OUR FATHERS AND GRANDFATHERS FOUGHT FOR AND HAD IS GOING FROM THIS GENERATION.
>> I SAY THERE'S TRADE OFFS WITH EVERYTHING WE DO.
IF I HAD CHOSE ESPECIALLY TO GO TO WALL STREET I WOULD NEVER SEE MY CHILDREN BUT I WOULD BE ABLE TO PAY MY BILLS MORE EASILY.
>> AND THEN SOMEONE WOULD HOPE.
>> AND I DID SPEND SEVERAL YEARS AFTER I HAD MY FIRST COUPLE OF CHILDREN WORKING PART-TIME WRITING SPEECHES.
AND YOU ARE HUSTLING.
BUT IT MADE -- IT WORKED FOR US FOR THAT TIME PERIOD AND YOU MIGHT CHANGE.
AND WE HAVE TO REMEMBER HOW DYNAMIC THE WORK ENVIRONMENT IS.
>> YOU HAVE EQUAL CHOICES.
MOST PEOPLE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE.
THE KINDS OF CHOICE THAT SAYS YOU HAVE A 9-5 JOB AND IF THEY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A 9-5 JOB THEY WOULD JUMP AT IT.
>> THAT IS THE OTHER QUESTION.
HOW MANY OF YOUR FREELANCER FRIENDS WOULD JUMP INTO A FULL-TIME GIG IF OFFERED?
>> IT IS AN EVEN SPLIT BECAUSE THEY LIKE THE FLEXIBILITY AND THE GETTING AWAY FROM THE OFFICE POLITICS THAT DID NOT ALLOW THEM TO GET AHEAD.
AND SET THEIR OWN RATES.
I LOVE YOU BRING UP THE POINTS THE 9-5 SECURITY SUCH AS HEALTHCARE AND PAID MATERNITY LEAVE.
BUT LESS AND LESS THOSE JOBS ARE OFFERING THE PERKS.
WOMEN LIKE ME JOIN FREELANCERS UNION AND GOT HEALTH INSURANCE THROUGH THEM AND.
WE'RE MAKING IT WORK SO WE GO AGAINST THE GRAIN AND MAKE IT WORK FOR OURSELVES THE SAME WAY IT DID.
>> I KNOW THERE WAS A TIME THAT I DID CONSULTING AS WELL AND I HAVE GONE BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN BOTH SITUATIONS.
AND IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
AND IF IT IS UNCOMFORTABLE THEY ARE GREAT TRADE OFFS.
BUT THEN AGAIN, I CANNOT GO TO THE DOCTOR.
>> AND FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.
AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.
[♪♪♪]DADADADADADADADADADATION.
FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF THE TO THE CONTRARY, VISIT OUR PBS WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.
[♪♪♪]