05/08/2015 | 26m 16s | Video has closed captioning.
Poverty & Geography: a re-analysis of the anti-poverty experiment "Moving to Opportunity." #TalkPay: How Twitter could end the pay gap. Mothers Who Leave: Author Melissa Cistaro discusses her life after her mother left. Panel: Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton, Sabrina Schaeffer, Anushay Hossain, Mercy Viana Schlapp
Aired: 05/08/15
>> THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY... FIRST, NEIGHBORHOODS MATTER TO A CHILD'S FUTURE.
THEN HASHTAG #TALKPAY FOR PAY EQUITY FOR MOTHER'S DAY MOTHERS WHO LEAVE.
[♪♪♪] >> HELLO I'M BONNIE ERBE WELCOME TO THE CONTRARY A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS.
UP FIRST, WHY GEOGRAPHY CAN RUIN THE AMERICAN DREAM.
>> WHERE A CHILD LIVES AFFECTS WHETHER HE OR SHE MAKES IT OUT OF POVERTY ACCORDING TO RESEARCH.
RESEARCHERS AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY ANALYZED THE ANTI-POVERTY EXPERIMENT CALLED MOVING TO OPPORTUNITY REGARDED AS A FAILURE.
THE PROGRAM WAS LAUNCHED IN THE NINE OWES AND IT GAVE VOUCHERS TO HELP POOR FAMILIES MOVE TO BETTER NEIGHBORHOODS BUT THE FAMILIES DID NOT ESCAPE POVERTY AS HOPED.
THE NEW ANALYSIS SHOWS OLDER KIDS' LIVES WERE DISRUPTEDP THEY DID NOT BENEFIT.
BUT CHILDREN YOUNGER THAN 13 AT THE TIME OF THE MOVE WERE MORE LIKELY TO HAVE HIGHER INCOMES LATER IN LIFE.
CONGRESSMAN NORTON -- CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON WHY IS IT THAT A NEIGHBORHOOD SHOULD PREDETERMINE A CHILD'S FUTURE EARNINGS?
>> BECAUSE THE PLACE WHERE A CHILD LIVES AND LEARNS FROM STARTS SMALL IT IS THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
>> THERE IS A SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL FACTORS IF YOU CHANGE YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD SOMETIMES THAT CAN GET BETTER.
>> I DON'T THINK IT'S RIGHT.
I DON'T THINK YOUR GEOGRAPHY SHOULD SET YOUR DESTINY.
>> TAKE A CRIME-INFESTED AREA VERSUS A PEACEFUL NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND GUESS WHAT?
IF A CHILD GROWS UP IN A PEACEFUL NEIGHBORHOOD THEY WILL HAVE A GREATER CHANCE OF SUCCEEDING.
>> AND CHILDREN WHO MOVED WHEN THEY WERE UNDER 13 YEARS OF AGE.
IS IT OBVIOUSLY SCHOOL WHERE YOU GO TO SCHOOL HAS A HUGE AFFECT HOW FAR YOU MAY GO IN LIFE.
BUT YOU AND MYSELF AS AN IVY LEAGUER LATER IN COLLEGE YOU MAKE LIFELONG FRIENDSHIPS AND CONNECTIONS THAT YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE AT A LESS AFFLUENT LESS ESTABLISHED PLACE.
>> YEAH, AND THINK ABOUT IT.
THE HOME IS ONE PLACE.
BUT THEN THERE'S THE SCHOOL, THERE IS A NEIGHBORHOOD, WHAT SELLS THERE FOR A CHILD?
WHEN YOU ARE LEARNING -- >> YOU WOULD THINK THAT THE PARENTS.
>> I SAID THE HOME.
BUT THEN OUTSIDE OF THE HOME THERE IS THE SCHOOL.
THERE IS A NEIGHBORHOOD AND FOR A CHILD THAT IS THE WORLD.
AND THAT IS HOW THE CHILD LEARNS WHAT THEY BELIEVE THE WIDER WORLD IS ALL ABOUT.
>> AND SO MUCH OF POVERTY IS AT THAT INDIVIDUAL LEVEL AND IT'S ABOUT SOCIAL NORMS.
WHAT IS ACCEPTED IN THE WORLD THAT I LIVE IN IS SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE DIFFERENT FROM A CHILD WHO HAS NOT BEEN BLESSED WITH A TWO-PARENT HOUSEHOLD WHERE THERE'S BEEN STEADY WORK AND DRUG ABUSE.
SOMETIMES LITERALLY PICKING SOMEONE OUT OF THAT A COMMUNITY WHERE THE NORTHERNS ARE DIFFERENT WOULD BE HELPFUL BUT YOUR PEER GROUP IS SMALL.
IF YOU ARE 13, 14, 15 YEARS OLD IT MAY BE HARDER TO CHANGE THINGS AT THAT POINT.
>> I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THE I DO NOT THINK ANYBODY IS ARGUING THIS IS A CHILD'S WORLD AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE THE THINGS BASICALLY STABLE FOR THE CHILD, THE HOME AND THE SCHOOL BUT IT'S INTERESTING IN AMERICA HOW YOUR ACCESS TO THESE IS SO RANDOM.
IT'S SO IMPORTANT THE NEIGHBORHOOD YOU LIVE IF I'M DISCOVERING AS A PARENT SCHOOL WORLD WE ARE JUST ENTERING IT AND IT'S CRAZYCH CRAZY.
PEOPLE WILL KILL TO GET THE THE KIDS IN THE SCHOOL.
>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS WHERE IT IS A HIGH LEVEL OF POVERTY AND HIGH CRIME, LOTS OF DRUG USE, SINGLE PARENTS.
IT IS AGAIN THE IDEA THAT THESE STRUCTURES STARTING WITH THE FAMILY AND ALSO WITH THE WEAK SCHOOL SYSTEM THAT IMPACTS THE LIVES OF THESE CHILDREN.
AND GUESS WHAT?
THE KIDS ARE LOOKING AND SAYING WE ARE DEALING WITH THE DRUG ADDICTED PARENT AND SAYING I DO NOT HAVE HOPE.
WHERE AM I TO GO?
>> THAT SEEMS TO ME VERY MUCH TO THE POINT THAT YOU FIND IN SOME NEIGHBORHOODS AND I WANT TO CLARIFY THIS, WHAT IS ACCEPTED IN ONE NEIGHBORHOOD WOULD NOT BE ACCEPTED IN ANOTHER.
LET'S SAY DRUG DEALING.
THE FACT IS MOST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD HATES THE DRUG DEALING AND WANTS THE COPS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT BUT THEY SEE SO MUCH IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IT IS QUOTE ACCEPTED.
AND WHEN YOU MOVE TO A NEIGHBORHOOD WITH NO SUCH ACTIVITY ON YOU GOT TO BE BETTER OFF THEN WHEN CASUALLY YOU SAW PEOPLE OLDER THAN YOU MAKING MONEY DOING THAT.
>> EVENTUALLY DEALERS ARE GOING TO TARGET YOUR KIDS.
>> YOU CANNOT MOVE EVERY POOR FAMILY INTO A MIDDLE CLASS OR AFFLUENT NEIGHBORHOOD.
WHAT DO YOU DO?
>> I THINK THAT THIS IS A CORE WOMEN'S ISSUE FOR SO LONG WOMEN HAVE BEEN AT THE FOREFRONT OF HELPING THOSE IN NEED AND REBUILD CITIES SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE COUNTRY.
AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE THINK ABOUT OUR ECONOMIC POLICIES.
AND OFTEN ALL OF US AT THE TABLE HAVE OUR HEARTS ARE IN THE SAME PLACE BUT WE DISAGREE HOW BEST TO GO ABOUT SPENDING MONEY AND REGULATING WORKPLACE.
THINKING HARD ABOUT HOW WE IMPLEMENT POLICIES THAT MAY BACKFIRE ON THOSE COMMUNITIES WHETHER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SCHOOL SYSTEM OR JOB CREATION OR TALKING ABOUT GETTING ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE GOODSP SERVICES IN THE COMMUNITIES.
>> AND I THINK IT IS ABOUT STARTING IN THE COMMUNITY.
AND IT'S INTERESTING YOU LOOK AT THE MOTHERS -- >> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FUNDING WISE?
MORE FEDERAL TO STATE TO LOCAL GRANTS?
>> IT'S GIVING STATES MORE ACCESS TO DO WHAT THEY NEED IN THOSE SPECIFIC COMMUNITIES.
BALTIMORE THEY ARE SPENDING $15,000 PER CHILD WHICH IS A LOT OF MONEY YET WE ARE NOT SEEING THE RESULTS.
AND IT STARTS WITH THE MOTHER'S EDUCATION.
>> HOW IS THAT?
>> MISMANAGEMENT OF THE PHONE.
THE BUREAUCRACY.
>> MISMANAGEMENT IT STARTS WITH THE QUESTION YOU ASKED.
WHICH IS THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
YOU CAN POUR MONEY INTO THE DRUG INFESTED NEIGHBORHOOD WITH A LOT OF SINGLE MOTHERS AND THAT MONEY DOES NOT RESONATE IN THE SAME WAY.
REMEMBER HOW THIS STARTED.
WITH VOUCHERS FOR SOME PARENTS TO MOVE TO BETTER NEIGHBORHOODS, FIRST THEY THOUGHT THAT DID NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
>> AND THE PROGRAM IS NO LONGER.
>> AND THEY THOUGHT IT MADE NO DIFFERENCE NOW THEY KNOW IF YOU GET IT TO A FAMILY WITH YOUNG CHILDREN THESE VOUCHERS SHOULD COME BACK FOR A LIMITED NUMBER OF FAMILIES.
>> DO YOU THINK THAT CONGRESS IS CONSTRUCTED DO YOU SEE ANYWAY THAT IT WOULD BE RENEWED?
>> I LAUGH IF IT WERE NOT A SERIOUS QUESTION BUT THE ANSWER IS NO.
>> ONE IMPORTANT INDICATOR IS THE MOTHER'S EDUCATION.
MOTHER'S DAY THIS WEEKEND.
>> AND WE ARE BLAMING MOTHERS FOR EVERYTHING.
WE LOVE AALL MOTHERS.
>> NO, LISTEN.
WHEN SO MANY OF THE MOTHERS THAT DROPPED OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL.
GUESS WHAT?
THREE TO FOUR TIMES LIKELY THAT THEIR CHILD WILL NOT GRADUATE FROM HIGH SCHOOL.
IT IS INVESTING IN THESE PROGRAMS WHERE THESE MOTHERS CAN GET THE SINGLE MOTHERS CAN GET THE GEDS AND THEIR CHILDREN ARE ABLE TO BE SCHOOL READY.
THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF PROGRAMS THAT ARE EFFECTIVE.
>> AND THOSE ARE ALSO FUNDING PROGRAMS THAT REPUBLICANS -- LISTEN TO ME.
REPUBLICANS WILL GENERALLY OPPOSE THAT.
>> THEY ARE CUTTING THEM RIGHT NOW.
>> I MEAN, WHAT IS THE MESSAGE YOU GUYS SUPPORT IT?
WHAT MESSAGE DO YOU WANT TO SEND TO THE REPUBLICANS YOU SUPPORT IN CONGRESS?
>> WELL, I BELIEVE IN COMPASSION AND CONSERVATIVISM.
YOU HAVE TO LOOK YOU HAVE 126 FEDERAL PROGRAMS DEALING WITH POVERTY.
STREAMLINE THEM AND MAKE THEM LESS BUREAUCRATIC AND GET THE MONEY TO THE PEOPLE.
THAT IS HOW YOU DO THINGS.
>> I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST ONE OF THE CHALLENGES REASONS THAT PEOPLE ARE IMPOVERISHED THEY DO NOT HAVE CONSISTENT FULL-TIME EMPLOYMENT AND WE HAVE OUR EYE ON THE WRONG BALL WE MAY DISAGREE BUT I DO NOT THINK WE SHOULD MANDATE AN INCREASE IN THE MINIMUM WAGE BECAUSE WE WILL SEE THAT WE DON'T WANT TO ADD ARTIFICIAL BARRIERS OF ENTRY INTO THE WORKPLACE.
PEOPLE NEED MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR JOBS THAN FEWERMENT AND I GO INTO DRUGSTORES WHERE THERE IS ONE EMPLOYEE.
AND THESE ARE THE POLICIES PEOPLE SAY YOU ARE NOT COMPASSIONATE AND YOU DON'T CARE BUT IT IS AN EFFORT TO MAKE SURE THAT P PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO JOBS.
>> THERE'S NO ARTIFICIAL BARRIER FOR THESE LOW INCOME WOMEN.
AND THEY DO -- AND THEY DO GO IN AND THEY GET THE MINIMUM WAGE.
AND THERE ARE LOTS OF THOSE JOBS OUT THERE AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF THEM.
NO THE ANSWER IS THE MINIMUM WAGE IF THEY MUST HAVE THE JOBS GIVE THEM ENOUGH MONEY TO SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES.
>> FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.
FROM NEIGHBORHOODS TO WAGES... >> CAN WE TWEET OUR WAY OUT OF THE PAY GAP IN PEOPLE DELUGE THE SOCIAL MEDIA SERVICE ABOUT THEIR PAY AND JOB TITLES TO CLOSE THE INCOME GAP BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN AMONG RACES.
THE TWEETS GOT THE HASHTAG, #TALKPAY.
MANY WONDER WHY CENSUS BUREAU FIGURES SHOW IN 2013 WOMEN WORKING FULL-TIME EARNED 78 CENTS FOR EVERY DOLLAR EARNED BY MEN UP BY ONE CENT OVER THE PREVIOUS YEAR.
THAT IS A LONG WAY FROM THE 60 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR WOMEN COLLECTED IN 1960.
OBSTACLES CONTINUE TO CROP UP.
MILLENNIAL WOMEN THINK THE PAY GAP IS A MYTH AND A SURVEY SHOWS THERE IS A 10% PAY GAP BETWEEN MILLENNIAL WOMEN AND MEN.
BUT THE PAY GAP WIDENS AS WE AGE.
SO WILL YOUNG PEOPLE BE WILLING TO FIGHT AS HARD FOR EQUAL PAY IF THEY THINK THEY ALREADY HAVE IT?
>> YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THE PAY GAP?
I DO BELIEVE THERE IS A PAY GAP BUT I THINK IT'S SMALLER THAN THE 78 CENTS AND WE HAVE TALKED WHEN YOU CONTROL FOR ANY NUMBER OF IMPORTANT VARIABLES THAT GO INTO DETERMINING SOMEONE'S SALARY IT'S 4 TO 6 CENTS IS THE DIFFERENCE IN PAY.
AND IT CAN BE EXPLAINED BY SOCIAL FORCES BIOLOGICAL, EXPLAINED BY DISCRIMINATION.
>> I HEAR CONSERVATIVES AND I READ CONSERVATIVES SAYING THIS BUT THE FACT IS THE BLS COMPARES FULL-TIME EMPLOYED WOMEN TO FULL-TIME EMPLOY MEN.
NOT LIKE A C.E.O.
WHO IS WORKING 3,000 HOURS A WEEK TO A PART-TIME -- PART-TIME WORKER WHO IS RAISING THREE KIDS ON MINIMUM WAGE.
>> BUT THEY DO NOT CONTROL FOR THINGS LIKE COLLEGE EXPERIENCE OR COLLEGE MAJOR TIME SPENT IN AND OUT OF THE WORKFORCE AND THOSE ARE IMPORTANT FACTORS.
>> YOU CANNOT GET AROUND THE NOTION THAT WE HAVE BROKEN IT DOWN OCCUPATION BY OCCUPATION.
AND OCCUPATION BY OCCUPATION THE MAN WILL EARN MORE AS A SURGEON THAN THE WOMAN.
THE MAN WILL MAKE MORE AS A LAWYER AND DON'T LET ME GET DOWN TO THE BOTTOM PART OF THE WORKFORCE.
YES SOME OF THE FACTORS COME INTO PLAY.
IT'S EASY TO CATCH UP WITH THE FACTORS BECAUSE THE AVERAGE WOMAN GOES INTO THE -- DOES NOT SPEND MUCH TIME-OUT OF THE WORKFORCE TODAY BECAUSE SHE CANNOT AFFORD TO DO SO.
SHE HAS TO GO BACK TO WORK BEFORE THE KID IS MORE THAN A YEAR OR TWO OLD.
WE ARE NOT GOING TO DEPEND UPON THAT ANYMORE AND THE QUESTION IS: THAT THAT GAP, THAT GAP REMAINS AND IT'S HARD TO EXPLAIN EXCEPT THAT EMPLOYERS CAN DO IT SO THEY DO IT.
>> LET'S GET TO THE SOCIAL MEDIA CAMPAIGN ABOUT IT.
WOULD YOU PUT YOUR SALARY AND YOUR EARNINGS AND YOUR TITLE ON TWITTER?
>> I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD.
THAT IS YOU KNOW THAT IS A PERSONAL DECISION TO MAKE.
HOWEVER I RESPECT THE PEOPLE THAT DECIDE TO PUT THEIR SALARIES TO SAY, HEY I'M MAKING THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY AND HOW MANY HOURS I'M PUTTING IN AND IT ALLOWS THE EMPLOYEES TO DECIDE IF THEY ARE FEELING THEY ARE BEING COMPENSATED FAIRLY.
BUT WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT WE BELIEVE IN THE EQUAL WORK FOR EQUAL PAY.
WHEN ARE YOU STARTING TO LOOK THERE WAS A GREAT ARTICLE IN THE "WASHINGTON POST" ARGUING THAT 9 OUT OF 10 FIELDS THAT ARE DOMINATED BY MEN.
SO HOW CAN WE GET THE WOMEN TO GO INTO THE SCIENCES AND ENGINEERING, WHERE THEY COULD COMPETE FOR THE MONEY?
HOW DO WE GET TO THAT POINT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE 9 OUT OF 10 OF THE LOWEST PAID FIELDS IT'S DOMINATED BY WOMEN.
>> BACK TO SOCIAL MEDIA IT'S PITIFUL THAT WE HAVE TO DEPEND ON SOCIAL MEDIA.
THE PAYCHECK FAIRNESS ACT WHICH IS NOW PENDING IN THE CONGRESS IS A MILD UPDATE OF THE EQUAL PAY ACT.
WOULD KEEP AN EMPLOYER FROM PUNISHING AN EMPLOYEE WHO SHARES HER PAY WITH OTHER EMPLOYEES.
AND YOU WOULD THINK THAT THE REPUBLICAN WOMEN AND MEN WOULD BE WITH US ON THAT.
BUT WE HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO MOVE THAT BILL.
IN FACT, IF WE REALLY WANT EVERYBODY TO AT LEAST KNOW WHAT OTHERS ARE MAKING SO THERE COULD BE COMPARISON, WOMEN WOULD GET AHOLD OF THEMSELVES AND FORM UNIONS.
>> I WILL JUMP IN FOR A SECOND.
THE REASON I DO NOT SUPPORT THE PAYCHECK FAIRNESS ACT, I THINK IT'S GOING TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR WOMEN TO SUE BUT NOT BE PAID HIGHER WAGES.
AND THE REASON I LIKE THE SOCIAL MEDIA CAMPAIGN IT TAKES THE CONVERSATION AWAY FROM THE ISSUE OF LEGISLATION AND IT MAKES WOMEN FEEL EMPOWERED AGAIN.
IT SAYS HEY, YOU HAVE CONTROL.
THINK ABOUT THE CHOICES ARE YOU MAKING THINKING ABOUT THINGS IN YOUR LIFE THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO YOU.
IS SALARY THE MOST IMPORTANT?
OR IS FLEXIBILITY MORE IMPORTANT?
HAVE YOU NEGOTIATED YOUR WAGE?
HAVE YOU DONE EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO ADVOCATE FOR YOURSELF?
IF NOT THEN WE HAVE LAWS IN PLACE AND IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE BEEN DISCRIMINATED AGAINST AND I WOULD NOT TELL SOMEONE NOT TO TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION BUT THIS PUTS THE POWER BACK IN WOMEN'S HANDS RATHER THAN GOVERNMENT.
>> AND ALSO YOU CANNOT ASK FOR MORE AND YOU CANNOT START ANYTHING WITHOUT GETTING INFORMATION.
SO A LOT OF TIMES WOMEN ARE UNAWARE THAT THEIR CO-WORKER IS GETTING PAID MORE BECAUSE HE IS A GUY.
I WORKED IN A PLACE FOR A LONGTIME THAT WAS AGEIST AND SEXIST AND ALL RUN BY WOMEN.
>> WHY WERE YOU WORKING THERE?
>> IT WAS LIKE SENATOR CLINTON'S CAMPAIGN.
SHE WAS PAYING WOMEN $16,000 LESS THAN THE MEN.
>> I HAVE NO IDEA.
THAT IS TERRIBLY POLITICAL.
I HAVE NO IDEA IF THOSE WERE COMPARABLE JOBS AT ALL.
BUT IT OUGHT NOT BE AND YOUR POINT COULD NOT BE MORE IMPORTANT, MOST PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW UNLESS YOU WORK FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BY THE WAY, BUT MOST PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW.
DOME PAIRED TO WHAT?
YOU CAN PUT YOUR SALARY ON TWITTER ALL YOU WANT TO.
BUT IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A BASELINE TO COMPARE IT WITH IT DOESN'T GET YOU FAR.
>> AND WE SHOULD SAY THAT IT IS A POOR PERSON ON MINIMUM WAGE OR MAKING SOMEBODY A MIDDLE CLASS PERSON MAKING LESS THAN A MALE COUNTERPART WHO WANTS TO FILE A LAWSUIT IT'S EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE.
AND UNLESS YOU HAVE A REALLY GOOD CASE, NO LAWYER IS GOING TO TAKE IT ON CONTINGENCY.
AND EVEN IF SOMETHING HORRIBLENESS GOING ON, PROVING IT IN COURT IS A DIFFERENT MATTER.
>> I DON'T THINK THEY NEED TO WORRY ABOUT OPPOSING THE PAYCHECK FAIR CHECK ACT BECAUSE YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE INCREASE OF LAWSUITS.
WOMEN ARE NOT GETTING PAID BECAUSE THEY ARE WOMEN.
>> WHOA.
I HAVE TO REIGN THIS BACK IN.
BECAUSE THE FACT IF YOU LOOK AT A PLACE LIKE M.I.T.
TOP WOMEN SCIENTISTS WE STILL SEE THERE IS A DIVISION WHAT MEN ARE GOING INTO.
MEN AND WOMEN ARE DIFFERENT AND SOMETIMES THE CHOICES WILL BE REFLECTED IN THEIR PAY.
>> BEHIND THE HEADLINES.
THIS MOTHER'S DAY, WE ARE TAKING A LOOK AT A SUBJECT THAT DOESN'T GET MUCH ATTENTION.
MOTHERS WHO ABANDONED THEIR CHILDREN.
>> IT'S STILL A VERY PAINFUL EXPERIENCE TO HAVE A PARENT WALK AWAY.
>> IN A NEW MEMOIR, "PIECES OF MY MOTHER", MELISSA CISTARO PAINTS A VIVID PICTURE OF THE DAY HER MOTHER PACKED THE CAR AND DROVE AWAY WITHOUT SAYING GOOD-BYE.
CISTARO AND HER TWO BROTHERS WERE ALL YOUNGER THAN FIVE.
>> THE STORY I WROTE IS ABOUT THE EXPERIENCES OF GROWING UP WITHOUT A MOM.
AND HOW THAT SHAPED ME AS A PARENT.
AND NOW WE DID SEE HER ABOUT ONCE A YEAR SOMETIMES TWICE.
AND YOU KNOW, IT WAS REALLY WHEN I BECAME A PARENT THAT I BEGAN TO IT REALLY HIT ME HARD.
HOW DOES A MOTHER HOW DOES ANY MOTHER WALK AWAY FROM HER CHILDREN?
>> THERE ARE NO DATA HOW MANY MOTHERS ABANDON THEIR FAMILIES BUT ACCORDING TO THE CENSUS BUREAU THE NUMBER OF SINGLE FATHERS HAS BEEN RISING STEADILY FOR 600,000 IN 1982 TO MORE THAN TWO MILLION IN 2011.
CISTARO SAYS SOCIETY IS MORE ACCEPTING OF FATHERS WHO LEAVE.
WHEN A MOTHER LEAVES THE STIGMA IS GREATER.
CISTARO HAS BUILT A LOVING TRADITIONAL FAMILY BUT SHE WONDERS IF SHE HAS THE LEAVING GENE.
>> I COME FROM A VERY LONG LINE OF COMPLICATED WOMEN.
AND OTHER MOTHERS WHO LEFT THEIR CHILDREN WHEN THEY WERE YOUNG.
AND THIS REALLY WHAT IS HARD FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT WAS THAT MY GRANDMOTHER ON MY FATHER'S SIDE WAS DROPPED OFF AT A CONVENT AT AGE TWO-AND-A-HALF.
MY MOTHER'S MOTHER DIED VERY YOUNG BECAUSE SHE WAS NOT CAPABLE OF MOTHERING HER CHILDREN.
>> CISTARO'S STORY IS SET IN THE LAST WEEK BEFORE HER MOTHER PASSED AWAY AND FOUND A FOLDER TITLED LETTERS NEVER SENT.
>> WHEN I FOUND THE LETTERS I WAS AFRAID OF THEM, AFRAID OF WHAT I WAS GOING TO FIND.
I DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE WAS INFORMATION THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT.
>> SHE READ THE LETTERS CAREFULLY BUT NEVER UNDERSTOOD WHY HER MOTHER LEFT.
WAS IT TO AVOID RESPONSIBILITY?
A DESPERATE SOUL SEARCHING JOURNEY?
OR WAS SHE IN LOVE WITH MORE MAN?
>> I HAD HOPED TO DISCOVER IN THOSE LETTERS A DEFINITIVE ANSWER WHAT WENT WRONG AND HOW BAD WAS IT, WHAT WERE HER CHALLENGES AS A MOTHER AS A WOMAN DURING THE TIME?
AND I WAS LOOKING FOR CLOSURE BEFORE SHE DIED.
AND WHAT I FOUND WAS SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM CLOSURE.
AND IT CAME TO SORT OF AN ACCEPTANCE OF WHO SHE WAS AS A WOMAN AND PERSON AS OPPOSED TO THE MOTHER SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE.
>> IT TOOK CISTARO 12 YEARS TO WRITE THE BOOK.
>> I WANTED TO WRITE THE STORY FROM A PLACE OF COMPASSION.
NOT LIKE MY MOTHER WAS TERRIBLE SHE LEFT BUT WHO WAS THIS IN WOMAN?
AND HOW DID THAT IMPACT HER CHILDREN?
AND MY BROTHERS STRUGGLED IN MUCH MORE DIFFICULT WAYS THAN I DID.
BUT I REALLY WANTED TO UNDERSTAND HER AND HER CHOICES.
>> I WANT TO START BY SAYING CLEARLY MOTHERS GET DUMPED ON IN THE MEDIA MUCH MORE THAN FATHERS DO.
AND MOTHERS DAY WEEKEND WE WANT TO SEND A SHOUT-OUT TO ALL MOMS DOING A GREAT JOB AND DOING THE BEST THEY CAN UNDER DIFFICULT CIRCUMSTANCES.
BUT DOES THIS WOMAN'S EXPERIENCE SHOW THAT SOME WOMEN ARE NOT MEANT TO BE MOTHERS?
>> I THINK IT COMPLETELY SHOWS THAT.
ON THE SIDELINE I WOULD LIKE TO SAY WOW DID YOU KNOW THAT YOU COULD JUST LEAVE?
I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.
I'M TAKING OFF FOR THE WEEKEND.
BUT ON A SERIOUS NOTE YES, IT IS' TRUE.
AND I THINK THAT THE STIGMA AND THE JUDGMENT THAT THE WOMAN RECEIVES WHEN SHE DOES WALK AWAY IS INTENSE.
BUT THEN I AGREE THAT SOME WOMEN SHOULD NOT BE MOTHERS.
BIRTH CONTROL.
>> THEY SHOULD NOT WALK AWAY.
HAVING HAD MY SECOND GRANDCHILD ON APRIL 23, I'VE GOT TO SAY -- >> BEST WISHES.
>> I HAVE TO SAY THAT I THINK WOMEN WALK AWAY BECAUSE FOR THE SAME REASON MEN DO.
THEY WERE NOT MEANT TO BE MOTHERS.
THEY ARE -- >> WHY WOULD IT TAKE YOU THREE KIDS TO FIGURE OUT YOU WERE NOT MEANT TO BE A MOTHER?
WHY NOT LEAVE AFTER ONE?
>> THREE KIDS IS A LOT OF KIDS.
ASK THIS MOM.
>> I THINK SOME PEOPLE SNAP.
I THINK WE DON'T KNOW NECESSARILY HER MOTHER DID WRITE THE LETTERS AND YET SHE NEVER GOT THE ANSWERS AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE MOTHER WAS THINKING ABOUT.
BUT AS A MOTHER IT IS INCREDIBLY OVERWHELMING.
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE A LIKE NEWBORN CHILD AND LIKE WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO.
THERE IS NO INSTRUCTIONS COMING WITH IT.
AND YOU HAVE THE THREE AND WHEN YOU HAVE FIVE IT'S ALL OVER.
THROW IN THE TOWEL.
>> I THINK IT IS A LESSON TO ALL OF US FOR MAYBE WE HAVE RAISED THE BAR TOO HIGH FOR PEOPLE AND IT'S GOOD TO STEP BACK AND NOT THINK OF ALL THE THINGS THAT YOU DID NOT ACCOMPLISH.
BUT I GOT THEM FED AND DRESSED AND TO SCHOOL AND THEY ARE ALIVE AND HAPPY.
THEY GOT A BEDTIME STORY.
SOMETIMES WE ARE ALL PUTTING TOO MUCH PRESSURE ON WHAT IS EXPECTED OF PARENTING.
>> THE NOTION OF THE SINGLE MOTHER IS LEDGE LEGENDARY, I THINK IT'S A SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY THAT A WOMAN FEELS THE MOMENT SHE SEES THIS BABY.
AND IT IS VERY STRONG IT STICKS WITH HER AND THOUGH LIFE GETS VERY HARD, APPARENTLY, SHE IS WILLING TO DO WHAT MUCH GREATER NUMBER OF MEN WHO WALK AWAY ARE NOT.
>> WHY IS IT SO MUCH MORE DIFFICULT WHEN A MOM LEAVES?
OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE LOTS MORE MEN WHO LEAVE THAN MOTHERS.
WHY IS IT MORE DIFFICULT AND WHY IS THERE MORE STIGMA ATTACHED TO IT?
>> I FEEL THAT THE MOTHER IS THE PRIMARY CAREGIVER AND THAT IS WE CAN CALL IT TRADITIONAL OR NOT.
BUT IT'S USUALLY THE CASE THAT THE MOTHER MAKES SURE THE KIDS ARE FED.
AND THEKIES ARE DRESSED.
AND THERE IS A SENSE THAT I FEEL THERE IS THAT BOND ALMOST LIKE THAT MATERNAL INSTENT THAT BOND WITH THAT CHILD.
NOT THAT THE FATHER DOESN'T HAVE IT.
IT IS JUST DIFFERENT.
>> WHY MANY WALK AWAY IT GETS TO BE TOO MUCH.
>> OR THEY DO NOT FEEL CONNECTED TO THE KIDSMENT WE DID GROW THE BABIES.
>> AND MOMS THAT ADOPT, TOO.
THERE IS THAT DIFFERENT ANGLE BUT I THINK THAT IT'S USUALLY IT IS THE MOTHER WHO SPENDS MORE TIME WITH THE CHILD.
>> AND IT SAYS A LOT ABOUT HOW MUCH WE INVEST AND TAKE SERIOUSLY WOMEN'S MENTAL HEALTH.
POST-PARTUM DEPRESSION WE ARE JUST STARTING TO TALK ABOUT IN THE LAST 5 OR 10 YEARS.
>> NOW, THAT WE ARE TAKING NOTICE WHAT SHOULD BE DONE?
>> WE NEED TO GIVE THE WOMEN THE HEALTH SERVICES THEY NEED.
IT'S HARD.
YOU HEAR ABOUT THE MOMS THAT DROVE THE SIX KIDS INTO THE RIVER AND I WONDER WHAT IS GOING ON WITH HER MENTAL HEALTH?
THAT IS A CRY FOR HELP.
>> AND THIS IS OBVIOUSLY NOT DATA IT'S ONE PERSON'S EXPERIENCE.
BUT I KNEW A WOMAN WHO ADOPTED TWO CHILDREN FROM A MILITARY MOM WHO THE HUSBAND DIED IN THE MILITARY.
AND THEN SHE MET A NEW GUY SHE WANTED TO MARRY AND HE SAID I'M NOT TAKING YOUR KIDS.
SHE PUT THEM UP FOR ADOPTION.
HOW DO -- HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?
>> YOU WONDER IF THE PEOPLE ARE UNSTABLE TO BEGIN WITH AND ARE NOT HAPPY PEOPLE.
IT'S HARD TO EXTRAPOLATE FOR THE LARGER POPULATION.
BUT IT'S IMPORTANT AND I THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF BAD THINGS TO SAY ABOUT MEN IN SOCIETY AND SOMETIMES IT'S GOOD TO SAY PEOPLE CAN BE COMPLICATED AND PEOPLE CAN BE BAD.
AND IT'S NOT ONLY ONE GENDER.
>> THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION.
FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.
[♪♪♪] FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRA
