GWEN: WHO SAYS THINGS GET SLOW IN AUGUST?
IN AUGUST?
WE JOURNEY TO FERGUSON, WE JOURNEY TO FERGUSON, MISSOURI, MOUNT SISNJAR, IRAQ, MISSOURI, MOUNT SISNJAR, IRAQ, AND INTO THE HEART OF AMERICAN AND INTO THE HEART OF AMERICAN POLITICS TONIGHT ON "WASHINGTON POLITICS TONIGHT ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."
WEEK."
LAST WEEK, YOU WOULD HAVE LAST WEEK, YOU WOULD HAVE GUESSED THIS WAS GAZA.
GUESSED THIS WAS GAZA.
THIS WEEK, IT WAS THE STREETS THIS WEEK, IT WAS THE STREETS OF A MIDWESTERN TOWN.
OF A MIDWESTERN TOWN.
>> THIS IS A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE >> THIS IS A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WORK, GO TO SCHOOL, RAISE THEIR WORK, GO TO SCHOOL, RAISE THEIR FAMILIES AND GO TO CHURCH, A FAMILIES AND GO TO CHURCH, A DIVERSE COMMUNITY, A MISSOURI DIVERSE COMMUNITY, A MISSOURI COMMUNITY.
COMMUNITY.
BUT LATELY IT'S LOOKED A LITTLE BUT LATELY IT'S LOOKED A LITTLE BIT MORE LIKE A WAR ZONE.
BIT MORE LIKE A WAR ZONE.
GWEN: THE SPARK, THE POLICE GWEN: THE SPARK, THE POLICE SHOOTING DEATH OF AN UNARMED SHOOTING DEATH OF AN UNARMED BLACK TEENAGER.
BLACK TEENAGER.
>> I NEED JUSTICE FOR MY SON.
>> I NEED JUSTICE FOR MY SON.
GWEN: THE ACCELERANT, THE GWEN: THE ACCELERANT, THE POLICE RESPONSE.
WITH LOCAL, STATE AND FEDERAL WITH LOCAL, STATE AND FEDERAL OFFICIALS ON THE SPOT.
OFFICIALS ON THE SPOT.
>> PUT SIMPLY, WE ALL NEED TO >> PUT SIMPLY, WE ALL NEED TO STANDARD, PARTICULARLY THOSE OF STANDARD, PARTICULARLY THOSE OF US IN POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY.
US IN POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY.
GWEN: IN IRAQ, THE NEWS WAS GWEN: IN IRAQ, THE NEWS WAS RELATIVELY GOOD.
RELATIVELY GOOD.
REFUGEES RECUED FROM MOUNT REFUGEES RECUED FROM MOUNT SINJAR AS A DIE ADVICIVE LEADER SINJAR AS A DIE ADVICIVE LEADER FINALLY AGREES TO STEP DOWN.
FINALLY AGREES TO STEP DOWN.
BACK AT HOME, A LITTLE BACK AT HOME, A LITTLE RECREATIONAL HILLARY WATCHING.
RECREATIONAL HILLARY WATCHING.
>> ARE YOU GOING TO HUG IT OUT >> ARE YOU GOING TO HUG IT OUT WITH THE PRESIDENT?
WITH THE PRESIDENT?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> IS SHE REALLY TRYING TO >> IS SHE REALLY TRYING TO DISTANCE HERSELF FROM THE DISTANCE HERSELF FROM THE PRESIDENT SHE ONCE SERVED.
PRESIDENT SHE ONCE SERVED.
COVERING THE WEEK.
COVERING THE WEEK.
CARRIE JOHNSON, JUSTICE CARRIE JOHNSON, JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT FOR N.P.R., YOCHI CORRESPONDENT FOR N.P.R., YOCHI DREAZEN, MANAGING EDITOR OF DREAZEN, MANAGING EDITOR OF FOREIGN POLICY MAGAZINE, AND FOREIGN POLICY MAGAZINE, AND JEFF ZELENY, SENIOR WASHINGTON JEFF ZELENY, SENIOR WASHINGTON ORRESPONDENT FOR ABC NEWS.
ORRESPONDENT FOR ABC NEWS.
>> AWARD WINNING REPORTING AND >> AWARD WINNING REPORTING AND ANALYSIS COVERING HISTORY AS IT ANALYSIS COVERING HISTORY AS IT HAPPENS.
HAPPENS.
LIVE FROM OUR NATIONS LIVE FROM OUR NATIONS CAPITOL.
CAPITOL.
THIS IS "WASHINGTON WEEK WITH THIS IS "WASHINGTON WEEK WITH GWEN IFILL."
ONCE AGAIN, LIVE FROM WASHINGTON, MODERATOR GWEN WASHINGTON, MODERATOR GWEN IFILL.
IFILL.
GWEN: GOOD EVENING.
GWEN: GOOD EVENING.
IT HAS BEEN HARD TO LOOK AWAY IT HAS BEEN HARD TO LOOK AWAY FROM THE IMAGES IN FERGUSON, FROM THE IMAGES IN FERGUSON, MISSOURI.
MISSOURI.
FROM THE STILL SHOTS OF MICHAEL FROM THE STILL SHOTS OF MICHAEL BROWN LYING DEAD IN THE STREET BROWN LYING DEAD IN THE STREET TO THE VIOLENT PROTESTS THAT TO THE VIOLENT PROTESTS THAT FOLLOWED TO THE CAUTIOUS ANGRY FOLLOWED TO THE CAUTIOUS ANGRY TRUCE THAT ENERGD AFTERWARD.
TRUCE THAT ENERGD AFTERWARD.
BUT WHAT WAS THE GOVERNMENT'S BUT WHAT WAS THE GOVERNMENT'S ROLE SUPPOSED TO BE?
ROLE SUPPOSED TO BE?
THE JUST DEPARTMENT HAS THE JUST DEPARTMENT HAS LAUNCHED ITS OWN INVESTIGATION LAUNCHED ITS OWN INVESTIGATION AND THE PRESIDENT WEIGHED IN AS AND THE PRESIDENT WEIGHED IN AS WELL.
WELL.
>> THERE IS NEVER AN EXCUSE FOR >> THERE IS NEVER AN EXCUSE FOR VIOLENCE AGAINST POLICE OR FOR VIOLENCE AGAINST POLICE OR FOR THOSE WHO WOULD USE THIS THOSE WHO WOULD USE THIS TRAGEDY AS A COVER FOR TRAGEDY AS A COVER FOR VANDALISM OR LOOTING.
VANDALISM OR LOOTING.
THERE IS ALSO NO EXCUSE FOR THERE IS ALSO NO EXCUSE FOR POLICE TO USE EXCESSIVE FORCE POLICE TO USE EXCESSIVE FORCE AGAINST PEACEFUL PROTESTS OR TO AGAINST PEACEFUL PROTESTS OR TO THROW PROTESTERS IN JAIL FOR THROW PROTESTERS IN JAIL FOR LAWFULLY EXERCISING THEIR FIRST LAWFULLY EXERCISING THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS.
AMENDMENT RIGHTS.
GWEN: THE STATE HIGHWAY PATROL GWEN: THE STATE HIGHWAY PATROL CAPTAIN NOW IN CHARGE OUTLINED CAPTAIN NOW IN CHARGE OUTLINED THE DILEMMA ON THE GROUND THE DILEMMA ON THE GROUND TODAY.
TODAY.
>> I AGREE THAT THIS IS NOT A >> I AGREE THAT THIS IS NOT A BLACK AND WHITISH BECAUSE WE BLACK AND WHITISH BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE SONS AND DAUGHTERS AND ALL HAVE SONS AND DAUGHTERS AND WE DO NEED TO COMMUNICATE WE DO NEED TO COMMUNICATE BETTER.
BETTER.
THE GOVERNMENT TALKED ABOUT OLD THE GOVERNMENT TALKED ABOUT OLD WOUNDS.
WOUNDS.
THIS IS AN OLD WOUND.
THIS IS AN OLD WOUND.
IT'S TIME TO STOP SAYING IT'S IT'S TIME TO STOP SAYING IT'S AN OLD WOUND AND CLOSE IT FOR AN OLD WOUND AND CLOSE IT FOR GOOD.
GOOD.
GWEN: BUT WHAT CAN THE FEDERAL GWEN: BUT WHAT CAN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REALLY DO TO GET TO GOVERNMENT REALLY DO TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF A PAINFUL AND THE BOTTOM OF A PAINFUL AND CONFUSING EPISODE THAT HAS CONFUSING EPISODE THAT HAS RESONATED ACROSS THE COUNTRY, RESONATED ACROSS THE COUNTRY, CARRIE?
CARRIE?
>> THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S >> THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S ROLE HERE, GWEN, IS LIMITED.
ROLE HERE, GWEN, IS LIMITED.
AS YOU MAY KNOW, MURDER IS A AS YOU MAY KNOW, MURDER IS A LOCAL CRIME USUALLY PROSECUTED LOCAL CRIME USUALLY PROSECUTED LOCALLY AND SO THE JUSTICE LOCALLY AND SO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CAN INTERVENE IN DEPARTMENT CAN INTERVENE IN CERTAIN CASES, FOR INSTANCE, IF CERTAIN CASES, FOR INSTANCE, IF A FEDERAL WORKER IS KILLED ON A FEDERAL WORKER IS KILLED ON THE JOB OR IF A MURDER OCCURS THE JOB OR IF A MURDER OCCURS ON FEDERAL LAND.
ON FEDERAL LAND.
HERE THERE IS A SPECIAL HOOK HERE THERE IS A SPECIAL HOOK BECAUSE THE LAW GIVES THE BECAUSE THE LAW GIVES THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SPECIAL JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SPECIAL POWER TO GO IN IF A POLICE POWER TO GO IN IF A POLICE OFFICER ACTING IN THE LINE OF OFFICER ACTING IN THE LINE OF DUTY MAY HAVE VIOLATED THE DUTY MAY HAVE VIOLATED THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF AN INDIVIDUAL CIVIL RIGHTS OF AN INDIVIDUAL AND THAT'S WHAT ERIC HOLDER AT AND THAT'S WHAT ERIC HOLDER AT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS LOOKING AT HERE.
LOOKING AT HERE.
GWEN: WHEN DID THE JUSTICE GWEN: WHEN DID THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT DECIDE IN THIS WHOLE DEPARTMENT DECIDE IN THIS WHOLE PROCESS AS THIS WAS UNFOLDING PROCESS AS THIS WAS UNFOLDING THAT THEY HAD TO GET INVOLVED THAT THEY HAD TO GET INVOLVED TO AT LEAST SAY THEY WERE GOING TO AT LEAST SAY THEY WERE GOING TO GET INVOLVED?
TO GET INVOLVED?
>> THEY LET PEOPLE KNOW AS >> THEY LET PEOPLE KNOW AS EARLY AS MONDAY A COUPLE OF EARLY AS MONDAY A COUPLE OF DAYS AFTER THE KILLING OF THE DAYS AFTER THE KILLING OF THE UNARMED BLAKE TEENAGER MICHAEL UNARMED BLAKE TEENAGER MICHAEL BROWN THEY WERE LOOKING AT BROWN THEY WERE LOOKING AT THIS.
THIS.
GWEN CALLS FROM THE STREET IN GWEN CALLS FROM THE STREET IN FERGUSON HAVE GROWN THROUGHOUT FERGUSON HAVE GROWN THROUGHOUT THE WEEK BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE SO THE WEEK BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE SO LITTLE CONFIDENCE IN THE STATE LITTLE CONFIDENCE IN THE STATE AND LOCAL AUTHORITIES, ARREST AND LOCAL AUTHORITIES, ARREST AT LEAST THEY DID FOR FOUR OR AT LEAST THEY DID FOR FOUR OR FIVE DAYS.
FIVE DAYS.
WHAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAD WHAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAD TO DO LATER IN THE WEEK SPELL TO DO LATER IN THE WEEK SPELL OUT IN EXPLICIT TERMS WHAT OUT IN EXPLICIT TERMS WHAT EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS DOING, NOT EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS DOING, NOT JUST SENDING INVESTIGATORS TO JUST SENDING INVESTIGATORS TO INTERVIEW EYEWITNESSES TO THE INTERVIEW EYEWITNESSES TO THE KILLING OF MICHAEL BROWN, BUT KILLING OF MICHAEL BROWN, BUT ALSO SENDING MEDIATORS INTO THE ALSO SENDING MEDIATORS INTO THE COMMUNITY, MEDIATORS FROM A COMMUNITY, MEDIATORS FROM A SPECIAL PROGRAM D.O.J.
HAD SET SPECIAL PROGRAM D.O.J.
HAD SET UP IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS UP IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS STRUGGLES OF THE 1960'S TO GO STRUGGLES OF THE 1960'S TO GO INTO THE SOUTH TO DIFFUSE INTO THE SOUTH TO DIFFUSE TENSIONS THERE.
TENSIONS THERE.
THEY'RE ON THE GROUND THERE.
THEY'RE ON THE GROUND THERE.
FINAL, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FINAL, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS MADE AVAILABLE ADVISORS TO HAS MADE AVAILABLE ADVISORS TO THE LOCAL POLICE TO HELP THEM THE LOCAL POLICE TO HELP THEM WITH CROWD CONTROL.
WITH CROWD CONTROL.
OBVIOUSLY THE PROTESTS GOT VERY OBVIOUSLY THE PROTESTS GOT VERY VIOLENT IN SOME INSTANCES AND VIOLENT IN SOME INSTANCES AND OUT OF HAND AS THOUGH THE LOCAL OUT OF HAND AS THOUGH THE LOCAL ARMED FORCES WERE OVERLY ARMED FORCES WERE OVERLY MILITARYRIESIC IN THE STREETS MILITARYRIESIC IN THE STREETS OF FERGUSON.
OF FERGUSON.
> THIS HAS CREATED SO MANY > THIS HAS CREATED SO MANY STRANGE BEDFELLOWS.
STRANGE BEDFELLOWS.
WE SAW PRESIDENT OBAMA SPEAKING WE SAW PRESIDENT OBAMA SPEAKING OUT ON THIS.
OUT ON THIS.
I WAS STRUCK BY THE FIRST TIME I WAS STRUCK BY THE FIRST TIME HE SPOKE OUT ON THE RACIAL HE SPOKE OUT ON THE RACIAL INCIDENT, HE WAS CRITICIZED INCIDENT, HE WAS CRITICIZED BACK WITH HENRY GATES IN HIS BACK WITH HENRY GATES IN HIS FIRST TERM AND THIS TIME WITH FIRST TERM AND THIS TIME WITH TRAYVON MARTIN.
TRAYVON MARTIN.
THIS TIME HE SEEMED TO HAVE AN THIS TIME HE SEEMED TO HAVE AN AFFECT HERE.
AFFECT HERE.
RAND PAUL, A REPUBLICAN SENATOR RAND PAUL, A REPUBLICAN SENATOR OF KENTUCKY, WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF KENTUCKY, WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF ALL -- OF ALL -- GWEN: SPEAKING MORE TOUGHLY GWEN: SPEAKING MORE TOUGHLY ABOUT THE RACIAL COMPONENT.
ABOUT THE RACIAL COMPONENT.
>> WITHOUT QUESTION.
>> WITHOUT QUESTION.
>> WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A >> WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A CONVERSATION, NOT JUST IN CONVERSATION, NOT JUST IN WASHINGTON, JEFF, BUT ALL OVER WASHINGTON, JEFF, BUT ALL OVER THE COUNTRY ABOUT THE CRIMINAL THE COUNTRY ABOUT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND THE JUSTICE SYSTEM AND THE DISPARITIES IN THE CRIMINAL DISPARITIES IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.
JUSTICE SYSTEM.
RAND PAUL IN AN ESSAY WENT ALL RAND PAUL IN AN ESSAY WENT ALL THE WAY THERE.
THE WAY THERE.
HE SAID HE WOULD BE TREATED HE SAID HE WOULD BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY IF HE WERE ON THE DIFFERENTLY IF HE WERE ON THE STREET AND TOLD BY A POLICE STREET AND TOLD BY A POLICE OFFICER TO MOVE ALONG AND GET OFFICER TO MOVE ALONG AND GET OUT OF THE STREET.
OUT OF THE STREET.
HE WOULD NOT EXPECT AT ALL TO HE WOULD NOT EXPECT AT ALL TO BE THE SUBJECT OF VIOLENCE AS BE THE SUBJECT OF VIOLENCE AS THIS YOUNG MAN, MICHAEL BROWN, THIS YOUNG MAN, MICHAEL BROWN, WAS.
WAS.
THEY ALSO HAVE COME TOGETHER, THEY ALSO HAVE COME TOGETHER, POLITICIANS FROM LEFT AND RIGHT POLITICIANS FROM LEFT AND RIGHT AROUND THIS ISSUE OF BIG AROUND THIS ISSUE OF BIG GOVERNMENT IN FEDERAL FUNDING GOVERNMENT IN FEDERAL FUNDING FOR SOME OF THESE FOR SOME OF THESE TECHNICALOLOGIST AND TECHNICALOLOGIST AND TECHNIQUES, THE NOTION THAT TECHNIQUES, THE NOTION THAT THERE ARE ARMORED VEHICLE THAT THERE ARE ARMORED VEHICLE THAT ARE PROVIDED TO THE FERGUSON ARE PROVIDED TO THE FERGUSON POLICE, THE SWAT TEAM GEAR, THE POLICE, THE SWAT TEAM GEAR, THE TEAR GAS AND RUBBER BULLETS TEAR GAS AND RUBBER BULLETS THAT WE SAW EXPLODING IN THE THAT WE SAW EXPLODING IN THE STREETS OF FERGUSON THIS WEEK.
STREETS OF FERGUSON THIS WEEK.
>> SOME MEMBERS OF CONGRESS >> SOME MEMBERS OF CONGRESS HAVE SAID THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK HAVE SAID THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK IN THAT, ALL OF THESE MILITARY IN THAT, ALL OF THESE MILITARY CONVERSATIONS OF THESE GLOBAL CONVERSATIONS OF THESE GLOBAL POLICE FORCES.
POLICE FORCES.
>> NOT JUST RAND PAUL AND TED >> NOT JUST RAND PAUL AND TED CRUZ, A TEA PARTY FAVORITE AND CRUZ, A TEA PARTY FAVORITE AND CARL LEVIN, DEMOCRAT FROM CARL LEVIN, DEMOCRAT FROM MICHIGAN WHO RUNS THE ARMED MICHIGAN WHO RUNS THE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE AND A SERVICES COMMITTEE AND A GEORGIA DEMOCRAT SAID HE WILL GEORGIA DEMOCRAT SAID HE WILL INTRODUCE LEGS ON THESE ISSUES INTRODUCE LEGS ON THESE ISSUES WHEN CONGRESS COMES BACK TO WHEN CONGRESS COMES BACK TO TOWN.
TOWN.
>> I SPENT TIME IN IRAQ AND IT >> I SPENT TIME IN IRAQ AND IT WAS COMMON TO SEE SNIPER AND WAS COMMON TO SEE SNIPER AND ARMORED VEHICLES.
ARMORED VEHICLES.
YOU HAD IRAN TWEETING OUT ABOUT YOU HAD IRAN TWEETING OUT ABOUT FERGUSON WHICH IS SHOCKING.
FERGUSON WHICH IS SHOCKING.
IS IT TOO LATES TO GET THESE IS IT TOO LATES TO GET THESE WEAPONS OUT OF THE HANDS OF THE WEAPONS OUT OF THE HANDS OF THE POLICE?
POLICE?
>> OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE LOTS AND >> OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE LOTS AND LOTS OF WEAPONS ALREADY IN THE LOTS OF WEAPONS ALREADY IN THE HANDS OF STATE AND LOCAL FORCES HANDS OF STATE AND LOCAL FORCES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.
ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.
I THINK THE ISSUE IS CONTROLING I THINK THE ISSUE IS CONTROLING THE CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER WHICH THE CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER WHICH THEY ARE TRAINED TO USE THOSE THEY ARE TRAINED TO USE THOSE WEAPONS AND PEOPLE, FOR WEAPONS AND PEOPLE, FOR INSTANCE, AT THE NAACP LEGAL INSTANCE, AT THE NAACP LEGAL DEFENSE FUND ARE CALLING ON THE DEFENSE FUND ARE CALLING ON THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO INSTITUTE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO INSTITUTE NEW REQUIREMENTS FOR TRAINING NEW REQUIREMENTS FOR TRAINING LOCAL FORCES AND HOW TO DO LOCAL FORCES AND HOW TO DO THIS.
THIS.
EVEN MORE IMPORTANT, HOW EVEN MORE IMPORTANT, HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO GET IN THE IMPORTANT IT IS TO GET IN THE COMMUNITY ITSELF AND FORGE COMMUNITY ITSELF AND FORGE RELATIONSHIPS SO THAT WHEN RELATIONSHIPS SO THAT WHEN SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS, YOU HAVE SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS, YOU HAVE TRUST IN THE COMMUNITY.
TRUST IN THE COMMUNITY.
WHAT WE SAW RON JOHN, THE WHAT WE SAW RON JOHN, THE HIGHWAY PATROL CAPTAIN DOING HIGHWAY PATROL CAPTAIN DOING WAS GOING OUT IN THE STREETS OF WAS GOING OUT IN THE STREETS OF FERGUSON THIS WEEK AND HUGGING FERGUSON THIS WEEK AND HUGGING PEOPLE AND LETTING THEM KNOW PEOPLE AND LETTING THEM KNOW THAT HE WAS FROM THERE HAVING A THAT HE WAS FROM THERE HAVING A RAPPORT WITH THE COMMUNITY.
RAPPORT WITH THE COMMUNITY.
GWEN: THERE SEEMS TO BE GWEN: THERE SEEMS TO BE DIFFERENT LAYERS OF DIFFERENT LAYERS OF INVESTIGATION GOING ON RIGHT INVESTIGATION GOING ON RIGHT NOW.
NOW.
THE ACTUAL INVESTIGATION OF THE THE ACTUAL INVESTIGATION OF THE SHOOTING IS STILL IN THE HANDS SHOOTING IS STILL IN THE HANDS OF THE ST. LOUIS COUNTY COPS.
OF THE ST. LOUIS COUNTY COPS.
AS YOU MENTIONED, RON JOHNSON, AS YOU MENTIONED, RON JOHNSON, THE HIGHWAY PATROL GUY PUT IN THE HIGHWAY PATROL GUY PUT IN CONTROL OF COMMUNITY POLICING CONTROL OF COMMUNITY POLICING PIECE OF THIS, AND THEN THE PIECE OF THIS, AND THEN THE F.B.I.
SAID THERE IS GOING TO F.B.I.
SAID THERE IS GOING TO BE A PARALLEL INVESTIGATION.
BE A PARALLEL INVESTIGATION.
HOW UNUSUAL IS IT FOR THERE TO HOW UNUSUAL IS IT FOR THERE TO BE A PARALLEL FEDERAL BE A PARALLEL FEDERAL INVESTIGATION FOR A LOCAL CRIME INVESTIGATION FOR A LOCAL CRIME OR ALLEGED CRIME?
OR ALLEGED CRIME?
>> IT IS UNUSUAL, BUT IT >> IT IS UNUSUAL, BUT IT HAPPENS IN CASES WHERE THERE HAPPENS IN CASES WHERE THERE HAS BEEN A CASE OF ABUSE AND HAS BEEN A CASE OF ABUSE AND CIVIL RIGHTS ALLEGATIONS, IN CIVIL RIGHTS ALLEGATIONS, IN ESSENCE WHAT THE F.B.I.
AND ESSENCE WHAT THE F.B.I.
AND CIVIL RIGHTS INVESTIGATORS OF CIVIL RIGHTS INVESTIGATORS OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT ARE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT ARE DOING IS LOOKING OVER THE DOING IS LOOKING OVER THE SHOULDER AT THE CONDUCT OF THE SHOULDER AT THE CONDUCT OF THE LOCAL FORCE AND THAT'S A LOCAL FORCE AND THAT'S A SPECIAL ROLE FOR THE FEDERAL SPECIAL ROLE FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO PLAY, ONE THAT GOVERNMENT TO PLAY, ONE THAT GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE RODNEY KING INCIDENT IN RODNEY KING INCIDENT IN CALIFORNIA.
CALIFORNIA.
GWEN: LET ME ASK YOU THIS.
GWEN: LET ME ASK YOU THIS.
I SAW JOHN LEWIS, CONGRESSMAN I SAW JOHN LEWIS, CONGRESSMAN FROM GEORGIA, CIVIL RIGHTS ICON FROM GEORGIA, CIVIL RIGHTS ICON SAY, MARTIAL LAW, CALL FOR SAY, MARTIAL LAW, CALL FOR MARTIAL LAW, WHICH SURPRISED ME MARTIAL LAW, WHICH SURPRISED ME A LITTLE BIT.
A LITTLE BIT.
IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?
IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?
>> WELL, JOHN LEWIS, >> WELL, JOHN LEWIS, CONGRESSMAN JOHN LEWIS, A CONGRESSMAN JOHN LEWIS, A VETERAN OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS VETERAN OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS STRUGGLES IN THE 1960'S WANTED STRUGGLES IN THE 1960'S WANTED PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA TO CALL PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA TO CALL OUT THE NATIONAL GUARD TO OUT THE NATIONAL GUARD TO RELIEVE THE FERGUSON POLICE AND RELIEVE THE FERGUSON POLICE AND THE ST. LOUIS COUNTY PLEASE THE ST. LOUIS COUNTY PLEASE BECAUSE THEY HAD BEEN DOING BECAUSE THEY HAD BEEN DOING SUCH A MISS HANDLED JOB OF SUCH A MISS HANDLED JOB OF DOING CROWD CONTROL AND SO MUCH DOING CROWD CONTROL AND SO MUCH MISTRUST.
MISTRUST.
IT IS UNUSUAL.
IT IS UNUSUAL.
I'M TOLD BY JUSTICE DEPARTMENT I'M TOLD BY JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFIALS CITHEY NEVER FOR ONE OFFIALS CITHEY NEVER FOR ONE MOMENT CONSIDERING THAT TO MOMENT CONSIDERING THAT TO HAPPEN OR CONSIDERED THAT AS AN HAPPEN OR CONSIDERED THAT AS AN OPTION.
OPTION.
WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO HERE, WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO HERE, GWEN, IS DEMILITARIZE THE GWEN, IS DEMILITARIZE THE SITUATION, DIFFUSE THE SITUATION, DIFFUSE THE SITUATION AND FOCUS ON THE FACT SITUATION AND FOCUS ON THE FACT THAT IN FERGUSON, THE POLICE THAT IN FERGUSON, THE POLICE FORCE OF 50 ODD PEOPLE HAS TWO FORCE OF 50 ODD PEOPLE HAS TWO OR THREE AFRICAN-AMERICAN OR THREE AFRICAN-AMERICAN OFFICERS AND THAT'S SOMETHING OFFICERS AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT ERIC HOLDER AT THE JUSTICE THAT ERIC HOLDER AT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SAYS NEEDS TO BE A DEPARTMENT SAYS NEEDS TO BE A SUBJECT OF CONVERSATION MOVING SUBJECT OF CONVERSATION MOVING FORWARD.
FORWARD.
>> YOU USED THE TERM >> YOU USED THE TERM DEMILITARIZATION, WE TALKED DEMILITARIZATION, WE TALKED ABOUT DEMILITARIZING GAZA AND ABOUT DEMILITARIZING GAZA AND NOW AN AMERICAN CITY.
NOW AN AMERICAN CITY.
SO NOW LET'S MOVE TO IRAQ.
SO NOW LET'S MOVE TO IRAQ.
TWO SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENTS TWO SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENTS THIS WEEK.
THIS WEEK.
THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS ATOP THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS ATOP MOUNT SINJAR HAS EASTED AIDED MOUNT SINJAR HAS EASTED AIDED PERHAPS BY U.S. AIR STRIKES.
PERHAPS BY U.S. AIR STRIKES.
AND IRAQI P.M. NOURI AL-MALIKI AND IRAQI P.M. NOURI AL-MALIKI SAW THE POLITICAL HANDWRITING SAW THE POLITICAL HANDWRITING ON THE WALL AND AGREED TO HAND ON THE WALL AND AGREED TO HAND OVER THE REINS OF GOVERNMENT TO OVER THE REINS OF GOVERNMENT TO A SUCCESSOR.
A SUCCESSOR.
DOES THAT MEAN THE CRISIS THAT DOES THAT MEAN THE CRISIS THAT WE HAVE SEEN BUILDING THERE IS WE HAVE SEEN BUILDING THERE IS ENDING SOMEWHAT OR ANOTHER ENDING SOMEWHAT OR ANOTHER CRISIS RIGHT BEHIND IT?
CRISIS RIGHT BEHIND IT?
>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO >> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO CRISIS HAPPENING CRISIS HAPPENING SIMULTANEOUSLY.
SIMULTANEOUSLY.
THE ISLAMIC STATE CONQUERING THE ISLAMIC STATE CONQUERING MORE AND MORE OF IRAQ PUSHING MORE AND MORE OF IRAQ PUSHING INTO KURDISTAN AND CONTINUING INTO KURDISTAN AND CONTINUING TO PUSH WHEN PEOPLE THOUGHT TO PUSH WHEN PEOPLE THOUGHT THEY COULDN'T PUSH FURTHER AND THEY COULDN'T PUSH FURTHER AND A P.M., THAT THE ALLIES HE A P.M., THAT THE ALLIES HE NEEDS TO FIGHT THE ISLAMIC NEEDS TO FIGHT THE ISLAMIC STATE WOULDN'T FIGHT WITH HIM.
STATE WOULDN'T FIGHT WITH HIM.
GWEN: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE GWEN: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE FIRST ONE, 40,000 REFUGEES ON FIRST ONE, 40,000 REFUGEES ON THE MOUNTAIN AND MAYBE THERE THE MOUNTAIN AND MAYBE THERE WAS 4,000, WHAT'S THE DEAL?
WAS 4,000, WHAT'S THE DEAL?
>> THAT'S THE QUESTION.
>> THAT'S THE QUESTION.
IT HASN'T BEEN ANSWERED YET.
IT HASN'T BEEN ANSWERED YET.
WHEN THE INITIALS NUMBER WRONG, WHEN THE INITIALS NUMBER WRONG, AND A KEY PART OF THE CASE FOR AND A KEY PART OF THE CASE FOR THE INTERVENTION THAT THE WHITE THE INTERVENTION THAT THE WHITE HOUSE USE WASN'T THERE OR BY HOUSE USE WASN'T THERE OR BY SOME MIRACLE CAN YOU GUESS SOME MIRACLE CAN YOU GUESS 40,000, 80,000 PEOPLE OFF THE 40,000, 80,000 PEOPLE OFF THE MOUNTAIN IN A NUMBER OF DAYS.
MOUNTAIN IN A NUMBER OF DAYS.
IT DIDN'T GET MUCH ATTENTION.
IT DIDN'T GET MUCH ATTENTION.
THE WHITE HOUSE IS SAYING THE WHITE HOUSE IS SAYING THINGS ARE PRETTY MUCH OK, THINGS ARE PRETTY MUCH OK, THINGS ARE TERRIBLE DESCRIBING THINGS ARE TERRIBLE DESCRIBING MASS STARVATION AND LACK OF MASS STARVATION AND LACK OF MEDICINE.
MEDICINE.
IT WAS HARROWING READING, IT WAS HARROWING READING, TOTALLY OVERSHADOWED BY THE TOTALLY OVERSHADOWED BY THE NEWS OF THE U.S. SAYING IT'S NEWS OF THE U.S. SAYING IT'S NOT THAT BAD.
NOT THAT BAD.
>> GWEN, WE KNOW THE SITUATION >> GWEN, WE KNOW THE SITUATION PERHAPS IS NOT AS BAD AS IT PERHAPS IS NOT AS BAD AS IT LOOKED A WEEK AGO.
LOOKED A WEEK AGO.
PRESIDENT OBAMA STOOD ON THE PRESIDENT OBAMA STOOD ON THE SOUTH LAWN OF THE WHITE HOUSE SOUTH LAWN OF THE WHITE HOUSE TO SORT OF ANNOUNCE THIS, BUT TO SORT OF ANNOUNCE THIS, BUT DOES THIS GIVE HIM AN OUT DO DOES THIS GIVE HIM AN OUT DO YOU THINK TO SORT OF SAY, OK, YOU THINK TO SORT OF SAY, OK, WE'RE DONE HERE, IT'S NOT AS WE'RE DONE HERE, IT'S NOT AS BAD AS WE THOUGHT, MOVE ON OR BAD AS WE THOUGHT, MOVE ON OR IS THAT NOT THE CASE?
IS THAT NOT THE CASE?
>> HE IS GETTING A BIT OF >> HE IS GETTING A BIT OF PRESSURE TO RAMP UP THE AIR PRESSURE TO RAMP UP THE AIR STRIKES AGAINST THE ISLAMIC STRIKES AGAINST THE ISLAMIC STATE.
STATE.
ABSENT THAT, THERE IS NO ABSENT THAT, THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY THE ARMY WILL POSSIBILITY THE ARMY WILL RETAKE THE LAND THAT HAS BEEN RETAKE THE LAND THAT HAS BEEN LOST.
LOST.
SHOULD HE CHOOSE TO WANT TO SHOULD HE CHOOSE TO WANT TO WITHDRAW AND IT'S CLEAR HE WITHDRAW AND IT'S CLEAR HE DIDN'T WANT TO DO THIS IN THE DIDN'T WANT TO DO THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE, HE DOES HAVE A BIT FIRST PLACE, HE DOES HAVE A BIT OF AN OUT.
OF AN OUT.
IT'S A HISTORIC MOMENT FOR HIM.
IT'S A HISTORIC MOMENT FOR HIM.
IT'S REALLY THE QUESTION OF HIS IT'S REALLY THE QUESTION OF HIS WHOLE SECOND TERM.
WHOLE SECOND TERM.
DOES HE DOUBLE UP AND CONTINUE DOES HE DOUBLE UP AND CONTINUE IN IRAQ, GO BACK IN A WAY HE IN IRAQ, GO BACK IN A WAY HE DIDN'T WANT TO DO OR ALLOW THE DIDN'T WANT TO DO OR ALLOW THE FORMATION OF AN INDEPENDENT FORMATION OF AN INDEPENDENT STATE CONTROLLED AT LEAST IN STATE CONTROLLED AT LEAST IN PART BY A MILITANT VIOLENT PART BY A MILITANT VIOLENT GROUP.
GROUP.
WE HAD AN INTELLIGENCE BRIEFING WE HAD AN INTELLIGENCE BRIEFING YESTERDAY IN WHICH WAS TALKED YESTERDAY IN WHICH WAS TALKED ABOUT HOW THE ISLAMIC STATE IS ABOUT HOW THE ISLAMIC STATE IS THE BEST FUNDED, BEST ARMED, THE BEST FUNDED, BEST ARMED, BEST TRAINED TERROR GROUP IN BEST TRAINED TERROR GROUP IN HISTORY.
HISTORY.
THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ANYTHING THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT.
LIKE IT.
WE TALK AL QAEDA FOR OBVIOUS WE TALK AL QAEDA FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.
REASONS.
THIS GROUP IS SEEN AS A BIGGER THIS GROUP IS SEEN AS A BIGGER THREAT.
THREAT.
>> THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE NOT >> THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE NOT WANTED U.S.ROOP TS ON THE WANTED U.S.ROOP TS ON THE GROUND MOST ANYWHERE.
GROUND MOST ANYWHERE.
WHAT IS SAID ABOUT GOING BACK WHAT IS SAID ABOUT GOING BACK INTO IRAQ IN FULL FORCE AND INTO IRAQ IN FULL FORCE AND WHERE IS CONGRESS AT THIS POINT WHERE IS CONGRESS AT THIS POINT ON THIS?
ON THIS?
>> IT'S INTERESTING, YOU GO >> IT'S INTERESTING, YOU GO BACK TO TO THE STRANGE BACK TO TO THE STRANGE BEDFELLOWS QUESTIONS FROM BEDFELLOWS QUESTIONS FROM BEFORE.
BEFORE.
YOU HAVE THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT YOU HAVE THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT SAYING COME TO US, THEY'RE SAYING COME TO US, THEY'RE SAYING TO THE PRESIDENT, YOU SAYING TO THE PRESIDENT, YOU CAN'T SIMPLY DO THIS WITHOUT CAN'T SIMPLY DO THIS WITHOUT CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL AND CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL AND DEBATE.
DEBATE.
THE POLLING SIMULTANEOUSLY IS THE POLLING SIMULTANEOUSLY IS PEOPLE THINK THE PRESIDENT IS PEOPLE THINK THE PRESIDENT IS TOO WEAK ON ONE HAND.
TOO WEAK ON ONE HAND.
PEOPLE WANT TO DO MORE TO HELP PEOPLE WANT TO DO MORE TO HELP REFUGEES ON THE OTHER BUT THEY REFUGEES ON THE OTHER BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO GO INTO IRAQ IN DON'T WANT TO GO INTO IRAQ IN ANY SIGNIFICANT WAY.
ANY SIGNIFICANT WAY.
IT'S KIND OF ALL OVER THE IT'S KIND OF ALL OVER THE PLACE.
PLACE.
YOU CAN SEE WHY THE WHITE HOUSE YOU CAN SEE WHY THE WHITE HOUSE ISN'T REALLY SURE POLITICALLY ISN'T REALLY SURE POLITICALLY HOW TO FRAME THIS OUT TO ACT HOW TO FRAME THIS OUT TO ACT WITHIN.
WITHIN.
GWEN: LET'S LISTEN TO THE GWEN: LET'S LISTEN TO THE PRESIDENT'S ATTEMPT TO FRAME IT PRESIDENT'S ATTEMPT TO FRAME IT AND WHEN HE CAME OUT EARLIER AND WHEN HE CAME OUT EARLIER THIS WEEK AND CLAIMED THE THIS WEEK AND CLAIMED THE VICTORY, BUT HE ALSO FRAMED VICTORY, BUT HE ALSO FRAMED THAT THE REMAINING DILEMMA THIS THAT THE REMAINING DILEMMA THIS WAY.
WAY.
>> WE ARE URGING IRAQIS TO COME >> WE ARE URGING IRAQIS TO COME TOGETHER TO TURN THE TIDE TOGETHER TO TURN THE TIDE AGAINST ISIL BY SEIZING THE AGAINST ISIL BY SEIZING THE ENORMOUS OPPORTUNITY TO FORM A ENORMOUS OPPORTUNITY TO FORM A NEW INCONCLUDES SIEVE NEW INCONCLUDES SIEVE GOVERNMENT UNDER THE LEADER OF GOVERNMENT UNDER THE LEADER OF THE PRIME MINISTER DESIGNATE.
THE PRIME MINISTER DESIGNATE.
I HAD A CHANCE TO SPEAK TO HIM I HAD A CHANCE TO SPEAK TO HIM FEW DAYS AGO AND HE SPOKE FEW DAYS AGO AND HE SPOKE ABOUT THE NEED FOR THE KIND OF ABOUT THE NEED FOR THE KIND OF INCLUSIVE GOVERNMENT, A INCLUSIVE GOVERNMENT, A GOVERNMENT THAT SPEAKS TO ALL GOVERNMENT THAT SPEAKS TO ALL OF THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ THAT IS OF THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ THAT IS NEEDED RIGHT NOW.
NEEDED RIGHT NOW.
>> SO, OK, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE >> SO, OK, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PRIME MINISTER DESIGNATE, IS PRIME MINISTER DESIGNATE, IS THE PRESIDENT PUTTING ALL OF THE PRESIDENT PUTTING ALL OF HIS EGGS IN THAT BASKET, IS IT HIS EGGS IN THAT BASKET, IS IT REALISTIC?
REALISTIC?
>> ONE THING THAT IS >> ONE THING THAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT THOSE INTERESTING ABOUT THOSE REMARKS.
REMARKS.
HE SAID A LOT OF WORDS.
HE SAID A LOT OF WORDS.
HE DIDN'T SAY AL-MALIKI.
HE DIDN'T SAY AL-MALIKI.
DIDN'T MENTION HIS NAME AT ALL.
DIDN'T MENTION HIS NAME AT ALL.
THE WHITE HOUSE WANT HIM IN THE THE WHITE HOUSE WANT HIM IN THE REAR-VIEW MIRROR AND WANTING A REAR-VIEW MIRROR AND WANTING A BODY IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT.
BODY IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT.
GWEN: THEY MADE THAT CLEAR FOR GWEN: THEY MADE THAT CLEAR FOR A WHILE NOW.
A WHILE NOW.
> HE IS FROM THE SAME PARTY AS > HE IS FROM THE SAME PARTY AS AL-MALIKI.
AL-MALIKI.
HIS BRANCH OF WENT ON THROUGH HIS BRANCH OF WENT ON THROUGH LONDON, SPEAKS FLUENT ENGLISH, LONDON, SPEAKS FLUENT ENGLISH, WORKED AS AN ENGINEER, BUILT WORKED AS AN ENGINEER, BUILT PART OF THE LONDON BRIDGE PART OF THE LONDON BRIDGE SPANNING THE RIVER THERE.
SPANNING THE RIVER THERE.
HIS BACKGROUND IS VERY, VERY HIS BACKGROUND IS VERY, VERY DIFFERENT.
DIFFERENT.
HE IS POP LARD WITH THE KURDS HE IS POP LARD WITH THE KURDS AND THE SUNNI.
AND THE SUNNI.
YOU CAN SEE WHY THERE IS YOU CAN SEE WHY THERE IS OPTIMISM.
OPTIMISM.
THINK ABOUT THE TASK HE HAS TO THINK ABOUT THE TASK HE HAS TO CONFRONT.
CONFRONT.
HE HAS TO REBUILD A GOVERNMENT, HE HAS TO REBUILD A GOVERNMENT, FIND A GOVERNMENT THAT IS FIND A GOVERNMENT THAT IS CAPABLE OF REBUILDING THE ARMY, CAPABLE OF REBUILDING THE ARMY, GET AN ARMY TO FIND ON BEHALF GET AN ARMY TO FIND ON BEHALF OF THAT GOVERNMENT AND FIGHT OF THAT GOVERNMENT AND FIGHT AGAINST THE BEST FUNDED, BEST AGAINST THE BEST FUNDED, BEST ARMED GROUP IN THE HISTORY OF ARMED GROUP IN THE HISTORY OF TERRORISM.
TERRORISM.
I THINK IT'S THEIR RIGHT TO I THINK IT'S THEIR RIGHT TO THINK HE IS A DIFFERENT MAN, THINK HE IS A DIFFERENT MAN, BUT TO THINK THAT HE WILL FIX BUT TO THINK THAT HE WILL FIX EVERY PROBLEM, IT'S NOT A HOPE EVERY PROBLEM, IT'S NOT A HOPE THAT WILL BE FULFILLED.
THAT WILL BE FULFILLED.
GWEN: DOES THIS MEAN THAT THE GWEN: DOES THIS MEAN THAT THE U.S. CAN USE THE KURDS ALMOST U.S. CAN USE THE KURDS ALMOST AS PROXY FIGHTERS IN THIS AND AS PROXY FIGHTERS IN THIS AND ARMING THEM IN A WAY THAT CAN ARMING THEM IN A WAY THAT CAN HOPEFULLY UNDERCUT THIS, WELL, HOPEFULLY UNDERCUT THIS, WELL, FINANCED TERROR ORGANIZATION FINANCED TERROR ORGANIZATION AND AT THE SAME TIME SUPPORT AND AT THE SAME TIME SUPPORT THIS NEW POLITICAL MOVEMENT?
THIS NEW POLITICAL MOVEMENT?
>> YEAH, I MEAN THEY'RE DOING >> YEAH, I MEAN THEY'RE DOING TWO THINGS WITH THE KURDS, THEY TWO THINGS WITH THE KURDS, THEY ARE ARMING THEM DIRECTLY.
ARE ARMING THEM DIRECTLY.
THE KURDS FUNCTION AS SPOTTERS.
THE KURDS FUNCTION AS SPOTTERS.
KURDISH TROOPS GO FORWARD AND KURDISH TROOPS GO FORWARD AND SAY STRIKE THIS TARGET IN SAY STRIKE THIS TARGET IN COOPERATION WITH THE AMERICAN COOPERATION WITH THE AMERICAN AIR FORCE.
AIR FORCE.
THEY'RE USING THE KURDS AS A THEY'RE USING THE KURDS AS A GROUND ARMY, THEY'RE BOOTS ON GROUND ARMY, THEY'RE BOOTS ON THE GROUND, NOT AMERICAN ONES.
THE GROUND, NOT AMERICAN ONES.
GWEN: HOW MUCH OF THE POLITICAL GWEN: HOW MUCH OF THE POLITICAL DILEMMA IN IRAQ MIRRORS THE DILEMMA IN IRAQ MIRRORS THE POLITICAL DILEMMA WE HAVE SEEN POLITICAL DILEMMA WE HAVE SEEN IN AFGHANISTAN IN WHICH WE HAVE IN AFGHANISTAN IN WHICH WE HAVE HAD TO BASICALLY KNIT THAT HAD TO BASICALLY KNIT THAT DEMOCRACY OR EFFORT THAT DEMOCRACY OR EFFORT THAT DEMOCRACY BACK TOGETHER?
DEMOCRACY BACK TOGETHER?
>> IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE YOU >> IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE YOU WOULD SAY ABOUT AFGHANISTAN, WOULD SAY ABOUT AFGHANISTAN, THE RECENT PAST, IT WAS JUST THE RECENT PAST, IT WAS JUST KARZAI AND CAB YOU WILL AND THE KARZAI AND CAB YOU WILL AND THE REST WAS LAWLESS.
REST WAS LAWLESS.
MALIKI BASICALLY TOOK A COUNTRY MALIKI BASICALLY TOOK A COUNTRY STAYING TOGETHER AND FRACTURED STAYING TOGETHER AND FRACTURED IT EVEN FURTHER.
IT EVEN FURTHER.
THAT'S A CHANGE.
THAT'S A CHANGE.
THAT ISN'T THE WAY IRAQ HAD THAT ISN'T THE WAY IRAQ HAD OPERATED FOR MOST OF ITS OPERATED FOR MOST OF ITS HISTORY.
HISTORY.
GWEN: OK, WE'LL BE WATCHING TO GWEN: OK, WE'LL BE WATCHING TO SEE IF THAT HAPPENS OR IF THERE SEE IF THAT HAPPENS OR IF THERE IS EVEN HOPE OF THAT HAPPENING.
IS EVEN HOPE OF THAT HAPPENING.
FINAL WE'RE GOING TO END WITH A FINAL WE'RE GOING TO END WITH A LITTLE BIT OF AMERICAN LITTLE BIT OF AMERICAN POLITICS.
POLITICS.
THE WATCHABLE RELATIONSHIP THE WATCHABLE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HILLARY CLINTON AND BETWEEN HILLARY CLINTON AND BARACK OBAMA TOOK ANOTHER TURN BARACK OBAMA TOOK ANOTHER TURN THIS WEEK, WE CAN'T STOP THIS WEEK, WE CAN'T STOP WATCHING.
WATCHING.
THAT'S WHEN IT WAS WIDELY THAT'S WHEN IT WAS WIDELY REPORTED THAT IN AN INTERVIEW REPORTED THAT IN AN INTERVIEW WITH JEFF ZELENY, CLINTON WITH JEFF ZELENY, CLINTON BASICALLY STIFF ARMED THE BASICALLY STIFF ARMED THE PRESIDENT ON FOREIGN POLICY PRESIDENT ON FOREIGN POLICY JUST BEFORE HE ORDERED AIR JUST BEFORE HE ORDERED AIR STRIKES AT IRAQ, JUST BEFORE STRIKES AT IRAQ, JUST BEFORE THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO SEE EACH THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO SEE EACH OTHER AT A PARTY ON MARTHA'S OTHER AT A PARTY ON MARTHA'S VINEYARD, SPOKE, FIRE, BOTH, VINEYARD, SPOKE, FIRE, BOTH, NEITHER, JEFF?
NEITHER, JEFF?
>> THE CLINTONS AND THE OBAMAS, >> THE CLINTONS AND THE OBAMAS, IT'S ALL OF THE ABOVE.
IT'S ALL OF THE ABOVE.
DEFINITELY SMOKE, DEFINITELY DEFINITELY SMOKE, DEFINITELY FIRE, FOR A MINUTE, I THOUGHT FIRE, FOR A MINUTE, I THOUGHT IT WAS TRANSFERRED BACK TO IT WAS TRANSFERRED BACK TO 2007.
2007.
WE COVERED THAT CAMPAIGN THAT WE COVERED THAT CAMPAIGN THAT WENT FOREVER INTO 2008.
WENT FOREVER INTO 2008.
THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN PRESIDENT OBAMA AND NOW FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA AND NOW FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE HILLARY SECRETARY OF STATE HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON ARE SIMILAR AND RODHAM CLINTON ARE SIMILAR AND REMINISCENT OF THEN.
REMINISCENT OF THEN.
GWEN: THEY'RE LIKABLE ENOUGH.
GWEN: THEY'RE LIKABLE ENOUGH.
>> LOOK, THERE IS NO QUESTION >> LOOK, THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT HILLARY CLINTON IS THAT HILLARY CLINTON IS DEFINITELY TRYING TO DISTANCE DEFINITELY TRYING TO DISTANCE HERSELF FROM THE PRESIDENT, HERSELF FROM THE PRESIDENT, PARTICULARLY ON FOREIGN POLICY.
PARTICULARLY ON FOREIGN POLICY.
IT IS FOR ALL OF THE REASONS WE IT IS FOR ALL OF THE REASONS WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT, IT'S THE HAVE TALKED ABOUT, IT'S THE LOWEST APPROVAL RATINGS HE HAS LOWEST APPROVAL RATINGS HE HAS HAD ON THIS.
HAD ON THIS.
THAT'S NOT SURPRISING.
THAT'S NOT SURPRISING.
THE QUESTION IS TIMING.
THE QUESTION IS TIMING.
WAS SHE MEANING TO POKE THE WAS SHE MEANING TO POKE THE FINGERS IN THE EYE.
FINGERS IN THE EYE.
THE THING THAT IRRITATED THE THE THING THAT IRRITATED THE PEOPLE INSIDE THE WHITE HOUSE, PEOPLE INSIDE THE WHITE HOUSE, ESPECIALLY THE PRESIDENT, GREAT ESPECIALLY THE PRESIDENT, GREAT TIONS NEED ORGANIZING TIONS NEED ORGANIZING STUFF ISN'T AN ORGANIZING STUFF ISN'T AN ORGANIZING CATCH ALL CATCH ALL MESSAGE FOR OUR FOREIGN POLICY MESSAGE FOR OUR FOREIGN POLICY HAS TO BE SORT OF, WELL THOUGHT HAS TO BE SORT OF, WELL THOUGHT OUT.
OUT.
WE CAN'T DO THINGS LIKE INVADE WE CAN'T DO THINGS LIKE INVADE A COUNTRY, ET CETERA.
A COUNTRY, ET CETERA.
WELL, IT PROMPTED DAVID WELL, IT PROMPTED DAVID AXELROD, THE PRESIDENT'S FORMER AXELROD, THE PRESIDENT'S FORMER VISOR TO WEIGH IN ON TWITTER.
VISOR TO WEIGH IN ON TWITTER.
HE HAS WORKED FOR HILLARY HE HAS WORKED FOR HILLARY CLINTON BEFORE THOUGH, TOO.
CLINTON BEFORE THOUGH, TOO.
HE DOESN'T USUALLY JUMP INTO HE DOESN'T USUALLY JUMP INTO THESE THINGS.
THESE THINGS.
HE SAID, LOOK, DON'T DO STUPID HE SAID, LOOK, DON'T DO STUPID STUFF MEANS NOT INVADE IRAQ.
STUFF MEANS NOT INVADE IRAQ.
HE WAS BASICALLY CALLING HER HE WAS BASICALLY CALLING HER OUT.
OUT.
A COUPLE HOURS LATER SHE A COUPLE HOURS LATER SHE ANNOUNCED THAT SHE WAS GOING TO ANNOUNCED THAT SHE WAS GOING TO APOLOGIZE.
APOLOGIZE.
SO AT THE END OF THE DAY HERE, SO AT THE END OF THE DAY HERE, OF COURSE, SHE IS MORE HAWKISH OF COURSE, SHE IS MORE HAWKISH THAN HE IS.
THAN HE IS.
THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE GOING BACK TO 2007.
GOING BACK TO 2007.
HER ADVISORS SAY SHE WAS NOT HER ADVISORS SAY SHE WAS NOT TRYING TO SORT OF CREATE TRYING TO SORT OF CREATE TROUBLE HERE, BUT SHE WAS TROUBLE HERE, BUT SHE WAS DEFINITELY TRYING TO DEFINITELY TRYING TO DISTINGUISH HER OWN VIEWS FROM DISTINGUISH HER OWN VIEWS FROM THIS IN THIS VERY LONG AND THIS IN THIS VERY LONG AND FASCINATING ARTICLE IN "THE FASCINATING ARTICLE IN "THE ATLANTIC."
ATLANTIC."
GWEN: CLEARING THE HEADLINE WAS GWEN: CLEARING THE HEADLINE WAS DAMNING, BUT WAS THE STORY, WAS DAMNING, BUT WAS THE STORY, WAS SHE REALLY DISTANCING HERSELF SHE REALLY DISTANCING HERSELF AS MUCH FROM THE PRESIDENT IN AS MUCH FROM THE PRESIDENT IN THE CONTEXT OF TALKING ABOUT THE CONTEXT OF TALKING ABOUT NOT DOING STEW STUPID STUFF.
NOT DOING STEW STUPID STUFF.
SHE WENT ON TO SAY THAT STUPID SHE WENT ON TO SAY THAT STUPID STUFF IS A POLITICAL IDEA.
STUFF IS A POLITICAL IDEA.
IT SOUNDS LIKE SHE ALMOST BUILT IT SOUNDS LIKE SHE ALMOST BUILT THAT IN.
THAT IN.
THE HEADLINE SAID WHAT IT SAID.
THE HEADLINE SAID WHAT IT SAID.
>> OF COURSE IT SAID WHAT IT >> OF COURSE IT SAID WHAT IT SAID.
SAID.
THEY AGREE ON MUCH, MUCH MORE THEY AGREE ON MUCH, MUCH MORE THAN THEY DISAGREE ON.
THAN THEY DISAGREE ON.
THEY'RE DEMOCRAT FROM THE SAME THEY'RE DEMOCRAT FROM THE SAME ESSENTIAL WING OF THE PARTY.
ESSENTIAL WING OF THE PARTY.
THEY'RE CLOSE FRIENDS, HAVE THEY'RE CLOSE FRIENDS, HAVE BECOME ADVISORS AND THINGS BECOME ADVISORS AND THINGS WHERE SHE DEFINITELY IS SORT OF WHERE SHE DEFINITELY IS SORT OF AN VISOR TO HIM.
AN VISOR TO HIM.
LOOK, I THINK THAT IN A RESPECT LOOK, I THINK THAT IN A RESPECT WE'RE LOOKING FOR THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR THINGS THAT SEPARATE THEM, BUT SHE DIDN'T SEPARATE THEM, BUT SHE DIDN'T HAVE TO SAY THAT.
HAVE TO SAY THAT.
I MEAN IT WAS VERY INTENTIONAL I MEAN IT WAS VERY INTENTIONAL A LOT OF OBAMA PEOPLE BELIEVE A LOT OF OBAMA PEOPLE BELIEVE AND SHE IS GOING TO -- THIS IS AND SHE IS GOING TO -- THIS IS JUST THE FIRST CHAPTER OF THIS.
JUST THE FIRST CHAPTER OF THIS.
IF SHE DECIDES TO MOVE AHEAD IF SHE DECIDES TO MOVE AHEAD WITH THIS, WE'RE GOING TO SEE WITH THIS, WE'RE GOING TO SEE HER DRAWING DISTINCTIONS, HER DRAWING DISTINCTIONS, SHE'LL HAVE TO.
SHE'LL HAVE TO.
>> JEFF, DOES THIS ALL REALLY >> JEFF, DOES THIS ALL REALLY MATTER IN THE LONG RUN?
MATTER IN THE LONG RUN?
SHE HASN'T EVEN ANNOUNCED YET, SHE HASN'T EVEN ANNOUNCED YET, FOR INSTANCE.
FOR INSTANCE.
ARE WE GOING TO BE TALKING ARE WE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THIS IN THREE OR FOUR ABOUT THIS IN THREE OR FOUR MONTHS?
MONTHS?
>> IT'S A GREAT POINT, CARRIE.
>> IT'S A GREAT POINT, CARRIE.
IT'S ANOTHER SLOW POLITICAL IT'S ANOTHER SLOW POLITICAL SEASON.
SEASON.
PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR WHATEVER PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR WHATEVER DAYLIGHT THERE IS BETWEEN THE DAYLIGHT THERE IS BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM.
TWO OF THEM.
MOST PEOPLE ASSUME THAT SHE IS MOST PEOPLE ASSUME THAT SHE IS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.
RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.
IT WOULD BE MUCH MORE IT WOULD BE MUCH MORE SURPRISING NOW IF SHE'S NOT.
SURPRISING NOW IF SHE'S NOT.
YOU'RE RIGHT, WE DON'T KNOW YOU'RE RIGHT, WE DON'T KNOW YET.
YET.
WE DON'T KNOW THAT AT ALL.
WE DON'T KNOW THAT AT ALL.
IT ONLY MATTERS IS SHE GOING TO IT ONLY MATTERS IS SHE GOING TO HAVE TO APOLOGIZE EVERY TIME HAVE TO APOLOGIZE EVERY TIME SHE TRIES TO DISTANCE HERSELF SHE TRIES TO DISTANCE HERSELF OR DISTINGUISH HERSELF FROM OR DISTINGUISH HERSELF FROM HIM.
HIM.
IT'S ALWAYS THE CHALLENGE OF IT'S ALWAYS THE CHALLENGE OF RUNNING AFTER THE PARTY THAT RUNNING AFTER THE PARTY THAT YOU'RE IN INHERITS THE WHITE HOUSE.
HOUSE.
IT'S NOT AS EASY TO BE A CHANGE IT'S NOT AS EASY TO BE A CHANGE ELECTION BECAUSE YOU SAY I WANT ELECTION BECAUSE YOU SAY I WANT TO CHANGE, BUT I STILL NEED TO TO CHANGE, BUT I STILL NEED TO BE SORT OF WITH THAT GUY.
BE SORT OF WITH THAT GUY.
THAT'S HER CHALLENGE.
THAT'S HER CHALLENGE.
JEFF, THE QUASIAPOLOGY, THE JEFF, THE QUASIAPOLOGY, THE INTERVIEW IF YOU LISTEN TO IT, INTERVIEW IF YOU LISTEN TO IT, THE CONTEXT.
THE CONTEXT.
SHE WROTE A 600-PAGE BIT OF SHE WROTE A 600-PAGE BIT OF CONTEXT.
CONTEXT.
WHY DID YOU NOT PUT THIS KIND WHY DID YOU NOT PUT THIS KIND OF CRITIQUE AS OPPOSED TO A OF CRITIQUE AS OPPOSED TO A MID-AUGUST INTERVIEW?
MID-AUGUST INTERVIEW?
>> GREAT QUESTION.
>> GREAT QUESTION.
AND THE BOOK WASN'T EXACTLY AND THE BOOK WASN'T EXACTLY CHOCKED FULL WITH OTHER NEWS.
CHOCKED FULL WITH OTHER NEWS.
THIS WAS ROOM FOR THIS BIT OF A THIS WAS ROOM FOR THIS BIT OF A NUGGET OR HER EX PLORG THIS.
NUGGET OR HER EX PLORG THIS.
IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
THE MOST CYNICAL VIEW, MAYBE THE MOST CYNICAL VIEW, MAYBE SHE IS TRYING TO SELL BOOKS.
SHE IS TRYING TO SELL BOOKS.
SO SHE IS DOING THIS INTERVIEW SO SHE IS DOING THIS INTERVIEW IN THE SUMMER TO TRY AND DRAW IN THE SUMMER TO TRY AND DRAW ATTENTION TO IT.
ATTENTION TO IT.
THE BOOK WAS NOT THAT THE BOOK WAS NOT THAT REFLECTIVE.
REFLECTIVE.
IT WAS MORE OF JUST KIND OF A IT WAS MORE OF JUST KIND OF A TRAVEL LOG IF YOU WILL.
TRAVEL LOG IF YOU WILL.
THIS WAS OBVIOUSLY AN ANSWER TO THIS WAS OBVIOUSLY AN ANSWER TO A VERY SKILLED JOURNALIST A VERY SKILLED JOURNALIST ASKING TOUGH QUESTIONS AND ASKING TOUGH QUESTIONS AND REPORTING QUESTIONS.
REPORTING QUESTIONS.
HER ADVISORS FLAGGED THE WHITE HER ADVISORS FLAGGED THE WHITE HOUSE, OH, THIS MAYBE A HOUSE, OH, THIS MAYBE A PROBLEM.
PROBLEM.
SHE GAVE THIS INTERVIEW TO THE SHE GAVE THIS INTERVIEW TO THE ATLANTIC.
ATLANTIC.
IT'S COMING OUT SOON.
IT'S COMING OUT SOON.
THEY SORT OF KNEW WHAT THEY THEY SORT OF KNEW WHAT THEY DID.
DID.
IT'S EVERYTHING THAT SHE HAS IT'S EVERYTHING THAT SHE HAS DONE IN THIS BLITZ OF DONE IN THIS BLITZ OF INTERVIEWS INCLUDING WHEN SHE INTERVIEWS INCLUDING WHEN SHE TALKED TO THE ABC'S DIANE TALKED TO THE ABC'S DIANE SAWYER, WE WERE DEAD BROKE WHEN SAWYER, WE WERE DEAD BROKE WHEN WE WERE LEAVING THE WHITE WE WERE LEAVING THE WHITE HOUSE.
HOUSE.
SOME OF THE MORE REVEALING SOME OF THE MORE REVEALING THINGS ARE COMING OUT IN THESE THINGS ARE COMING OUT IN THESE SERIES OF INTERVIEWS MORE THAN SERIES OF INTERVIEWS MORE THAN THE BOOK.
THE BOOK.
GWEN: I'M GOING TO CALL GWEN: I'M GOING TO CALL GOLDBERG YOU CALLED HIM A GOLDBERG YOU CALLED HIM A SKILLED JOURNALIST.
SKILLED JOURNALIST.
LET ME GO BACK TO AL GORE LET ME GO BACK TO AL GORE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, WAS VICE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, WAS VICE PRESIDENT UNDER BILL CLINTON.
PRESIDENT UNDER BILL CLINTON.
HE HAD TO OVER TIME MAKE A HE HAD TO OVER TIME MAKE A LITTLE DISTANCE BETWEEN HIM AND LITTLE DISTANCE BETWEEN HIM AND THE PRESIDENT AND IT CAUSED BAD THE PRESIDENT AND IT CAUSED BAD FEELINGS.
FEELINGS.
THERE WERE, AS YOU RECALL.
THERE WERE, AS YOU RECALL.
IS THIS EVEN DOABLE, THIS IDEA IS THIS EVEN DOABLE, THIS IDEA OF SEPARATING YOURSELF OUT FROM OF SEPARATING YOURSELF OUT FROM A GUY YOU WORKED FOR?
A GUY YOU WORKED FOR?
>> IT CAUSED BAD FEELINGS AND >> IT CAUSED BAD FEELINGS AND MAYBE EVEN COST HIM THE MAYBE EVEN COST HIM THE ELECTION.
ELECTION.
HE LOST TENNESSEE THAT YEAR AND HE LOST TENNESSEE THAT YEAR AND HE LOST ARKANSAS.
HE LOST ARKANSAS.
AT LEAST IN BILL CLINTON'S WAY AT LEAST IN BILL CLINTON'S WAY OF THINKING AND HIS ADVISORS, OF THINKING AND HIS ADVISORS, IF HE HAD CAMPAIGNED WITH HIM, IF HE HAD CAMPAIGNED WITH HIM, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SORT OF MORE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SORT OF MORE HELPFUL.
HELPFUL.
IT'S VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO IT'S VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO DISTINGUISH HIMSELF AND JUST DISTINGUISH HIMSELF AND JUST THINK OF VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN THINK OF VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN RUNS, WE CAN'T RULE OUT THAT RUNS, WE CAN'T RULE OUT THAT ENTIRELY, HOW WILL HE ENTIRELY, HOW WILL HE DISTINGUISH HIMSELF.
DISTINGUISH HIMSELF.
GWEN: ALL OF THIS WILL BE FUN GWEN: ALL OF THIS WILL BE FUN TO WATCH.
TO WATCH.
THE SOAP OPERA NEVER ENDS.
THE SOAP OPERA NEVER ENDS.
WE'LL BE THERE FOR YOU.
WE'LL BE THERE FOR YOU.
THANK YOU, EVERYBODY.
THANK YOU, EVERYBODY.
WE HAVE TO LEAVE YOU A FEW WE HAVE TO LEAVE YOU A FEW MINUTES EARLY AGAIN THIS WEEK MINUTES EARLY AGAIN THIS WEEK TO GIVE YOU THE CHANCE TO TO GIVE YOU THE CHANCE TO SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL STATION, BUT SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL STATION, BUT IF YOU'RE HUNGRY FOR MORAND E IF YOU'RE HUNGRY FOR MORAND E WE HOPE YOU ARE, OUR WE HOPE YOU ARE, OUR CONVERSATION WILL CONTINUE CONVERSATION WILL CONTINUE ONLINE.
ONLINE.
THE "WASHINGTON WEEK" WEBCAST THE "WASHINGTON WEEK" WEBCAST EXTRA STREAMS LIVE AT 8:30 P.M.
EXTRA STREAMS LIVE AT 8:30 P.M. EASTERN.
EASTERN.
WATCH IT NOW OR YOU CAN FIND IT WATCH IT NOW OR YOU CAN FIND IT ALL WEEK LONG AT ALL WEEK LONG AT PBS.ORG/WASHINGTON WEEK.
PBS.ORG/WASHINGTON WEEK.
AMONG OTHER THINGS, WE'LL TALK AMONG OTHER THINGS, WE'LL TALK ABOUT TONIGHT'S INDICTMENT OF ABOUT TONIGHT'S INDICTMENT OF TEXAS GOVERNOR RICK PERRY.
TEXAS GOVERNOR RICK PERRY.
KEEP UP WITH DEVELOPMENTS WITH KEEP UP WITH DEVELOPMENTS WITH ME AND JUDY WOODRUFF ON THE PBS ME AND JUDY WOODRUFF ON THE PBS NEWS HOUR AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEWS HOUR AND WE'LL SEE YOU HERE NEXT WEEK ON "WASHINGTON HERE NEXT WEEK ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."
WEEK."
OOD NIGHT.
