GWEN: THE RACE TO RECESS.
LAWMAKERS SCATTER TO THE FAR LAWMAKERS SCATTER TO THE FAR WINDS BUT NOT BEFORE CREATING A WINDS BUT NOT BEFORE CREATING A LITTLE CHAOS.
LITTLE CHAOS.
AND THE TENSIONS WITH RUSSIA AND THE TENSIONS WITH RUSSIA AND THE FIGHTING IN THE MIDDLE AND THE FIGHTING IN THE MIDDLE EAST ARE TIED UP IN KNOTS.
EAST ARE TIED UP IN KNOTS.
WE EXPLAIN WHY TONIGHT ON WE EXPLAIN WHY TONIGHT ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."
"WASHINGTON WEEK."
>> THE HOUSE WILL BEN OR IDER.
>> THE HOUSE WILL BEN OR IDER.
GWEN: HOUSE REPUBLICANS FIGHT GWEN: HOUSE REPUBLICANS FIGHT AMONG THEMSELVES OVER AMONG THEMSELVES OVER IMMIGRATION REFORM.
IMMIGRATION REFORM.
AND WITH DEMOCRATS BY VOTING TO AND WITH DEMOCRATS BY VOTING TO SUE THE PRESIDENT.
SUE THE PRESIDENT.
>> OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT IS >> OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT IS IN A BAD PLACE WHEN ONE BRANCH IN A BAD PLACE WHEN ONE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT IS COMPELLED TO OF GOVERNMENT IS COMPELLED TO SUE ANOTHER BRANCH OF SUE ANOTHER BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT FOR FAILING TO PLAY GOVERNMENT FOR FAILING TO PLAY ITS PROPER CONSTITUTIONAL ROLE.
ITS PROPER CONSTITUTIONAL ROLE.
GWEN: BUT WILL THEY ENERGIZE GWEN: BUT WILL THEY ENERGIZE THEIR OWN BASE OR THE DEMOCRATS THEIR OWN BASE OR THE DEMOCRATS ?
?
>> THIS IS A TACTIC THAT'S >> THIS IS A TACTIC THAT'S ANTI-GIVENENS, ANTI-SCIENCE AND ANTI-GIVENENS, ANTI-SCIENCE AND ANTI-BARACK OBAMA.
ANTI-BARACK OBAMA.
GWEN: IN THE MIDDLE EAST.S.
U GWEN: IN THE MIDDLE EAST.S.
U CONDEMNATIONS GROW MORE HARSH CONDEMNATIONS GROW MORE HARSH AS CEASE-FIRE AFTER CEASE-FIRE AS CEASE-FIRE AFTER CEASE-FIRE COLLAPSES.
COLLAPSES.
>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE >> I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE VERY HARD TO PUT A CEASE-FIRE VERY HARD TO PUT A CEASE-FIRE BACK TOGETHER AGAIN IF ISRAELIS BACK TOGETHER AGAIN IF ISRAELIS AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY CAN'T FEEL CONFIDENT THAT HAMAS CAN'T FEEL CONFIDENT THAT HAMAS CAN FOLLOW THROUGH.
CAN FOLLOW THROUGH.
GWEN: AND RUSSIA REFUSES TO GWEN: AND RUSSIA REFUSES TO BACK DOWN IN UKRAINE.
BACK DOWN IN UKRAINE.
OR FLINCH AT NEW SANCTIONS.
OR FLINCH AT NEW SANCTIONS.
A HOT SUMMER GROWS HOTTER.
A HOT SUMMER GROWS HOTTER.
COVERING THE WEEK, ROBERT COVERING THE WEEK, ROBERT COSTA, NATIONAL POLITICAL COSTA, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER FOR "THE WASHINGTON REPORTER FOR "THE WASHINGTON POST."
POST."
MOLLY BALL, NATIONAL POLITICAL MOLLY BALL, NATIONAL POLITICAL ORRESPONDENT FOR "THE ORRESPONDENT FOR "THE ATLANTIC."
ATLANTIC."
YOCHI DREAZEN, MANAGING EDITOR YOCHI DREAZEN, MANAGING EDITOR OF "FOREIGN POLICY MAGAZINE."
OF "FOREIGN POLICY MAGAZINE."
AND ELISE LABOTT, GLOBAL AND ELISE LABOTT, GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT FOR CNN.
AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT FOR CNN.
>> AWARD-WINNING REPORTING AND >> AWARD-WINNING REPORTING AND ANALYSIS, COVERING HISTORY AS ANALYSIS, COVERING HISTORY AS T FROM OUR T FROM OUR NATION'S CAPITAL THIS IS NATION'S CAPITAL THIS IS "WASHINGTON WEEK WITH GWEN "WASHINGTON WEEK WITH GWEN IFILL."
ONCE AGAIN, LIVE FROM WASHINGTON, MODERATOR GWEN WASHINGTON, MODERATOR GWEN IFILL.
IFILL.
GWEN: GOOD EVENING.
GWEN: GOOD EVENING.
GETTING OUT OF WASHINGTON FOR GETTING OUT OF WASHINGTON FOR THE CONGRESSIONAL BREAK IS THE CONGRESSIONAL BREAK IS OFTEN A MESSY AFFAIR.
OFTEN A MESSY AFFAIR.
THERE ARE TRANSPORTATION BILLS THERE ARE TRANSPORTATION BILLS TO PASS, VETERANS HOSPITALS TO TO PASS, VETERANS HOSPITALS TO FIX, AND ALWAYS, ALWAYS, SOME FIX, AND ALWAYS, ALWAYS, SOME NASTY BIT OF POLITICS TO TAKE NASTY BIT OF POLITICS TO TAKE CARE OF.
CARE OF.
IT'S HARD TO KNOW WHERE TO IT'S HARD TO KNOW WHERE TO START.
START.
OH, I KNOW.
OH, I KNOW.
IMMIGRATION.
IMMIGRATION.
>> WE HAVE A CRISIS ON OUR >> WE HAVE A CRISIS ON OUR BORDER WITH MEXICO RIGHT NOW.
BORDER WITH MEXICO RIGHT NOW.
IT CAN'T WAIT.
IT CAN'T WAIT.
IT'S A HUMANITARIAN CRISIS.
IT'S A HUMANITARIAN CRISIS.
IT'S ALSO A FAILURE OF OUR IT'S ALSO A FAILURE OF OUR BORDER.
BORDER.
IT'S AN OPEN BORDER NOW.
IT'S AN OPEN BORDER NOW.
UNLESS YOU FIX IT.
UNLESS YOU FIX IT.
GWEN: BUT IT TURNS OUT IT CAN GWEN: BUT IT TURNS OUT IT CAN WAIT.
WAIT.
IN PART BECAUSE NO ONE CAN IN PART BECAUSE NO ONE CAN AGREE ON WHAT CONGRESS SHOULD AGREE ON WHAT CONGRESS SHOULD DO AND COULD DO ABOUT IT.
DO AND COULD DO ABOUT IT.
LET'S AMEND THAT.
LET'S AMEND THAT.
HOUSE REPUBLICANS CAN'T AGREE, HOUSE REPUBLICANS CAN'T AGREE, ROBERT, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH ROBERT, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS?
THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS?
>> WE HAVE SEEN HOUSE >> WE HAVE SEEN HOUSE REPUBLICANS HAVE A VERY REPUBLICANS HAVE A VERY DIFFICULT TIME THIS YEAR TO DIFFICULT TIME THIS YEAR TO PASS MUCH OF ANYTHING.
PASS MUCH OF ANYTHING.
BUT WHAT'S HAPPENED ON THE BUT WHAT'S HAPPENED ON THE BORDER BILL THIS WEEK IS THAT BORDER BILL THIS WEEK IS THAT THE CENTER OF GRAVITY WITHIN THE CENTER OF GRAVITY WITHIN THE HOUSE OF REPUBLICAN THE HOUSE OF REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE HAS SHIFTED SO FAR CONFERENCE HAS SHIFTED SO FAR TO THE RIGHT THAT EVEN IF A TO THE RIGHT THAT EVEN IF A SMALL GROUP, A VOCAL GROUP, SMALL GROUP, A VOCAL GROUP, MICHELE BACHMAN, STEVE KING, MICHELE BACHMAN, STEVE KING, THEY'RE CONNECTED TO THE THEY'RE CONNECTED TO THE GRASSROOTS AND THESE GRASSROOTS AND THESE CONSERVATIVE LEADERS LIKE TED CONSERVATIVE LEADERS LIKE TED CRUZ OVER IN THE SENATE.
CRUZ OVER IN THE SENATE.
AND WHAT THEY SAY MATTERS.
AND WHAT THEY SAY MATTERS.
OTHER HOUSE REPUBLICANS WHO OTHER HOUSE REPUBLICANS WHO MAYBE WANT TO VOTE FOR THIS MAYBE WANT TO VOTE FOR THIS BORDER BILL LISTEN TO THEM AND BORDER BILL LISTEN TO THEM AND THEY WERE ABLE TO GET THIS BILL THEY WERE ABLE TO GET THIS BILL CHANGED AND ALSO ABLE TO CHANGED AND ALSO ABLE TO STRUGGLE TO PASS IT BECAUSE OF STRUGGLE TO PASS IT BECAUSE OF THEM.
THEM.
GWEN: MOLLY, WHAT HAS HAPPENED?
GWEN: MOLLY, WHAT HAS HAPPENED?
WE USED TO ALWAYS EXPECT BACK WE USED TO ALWAYS EXPECT BACK BEN CHERS OR PEOPLE LIKE BEN CHERS OR PEOPLE LIKE MICHELE BACHMAN WHO IS NOT EVEN MICHELE BACHMAN WHO IS NOT EVEN RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION TO NOT RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION TO NOT HAVE THAT MUCH POWER IN THE HAVE THAT MUCH POWER IN THE HOUSE.
HOUSE.
THE WAY IT WAS CONSTRUCTED.
THE WAY IT WAS CONSTRUCTED.
WAS VERY TOP DOWN.
WAS VERY TOP DOWN.
IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY ANYMORE.
ANYMORE.
>> IT'S A COMBINATION OF >> IT'S A COMBINATION OF THINGS.
THINGS.
AND IN A NEW WAY, THIS IS DEJA AND IN A NEW WAY, THIS IS DEJA VU ALL OVER AGAIN.
VU ALL OVER AGAIN.
THIS IS JUST THE LATEST THIS IS JUST THE LATEST EXAMPLE.
EXAMPLE.
THINK BACK TO THE SHUTDOWN AND THINK BACK TO THE SHUTDOWN AND THE PLAN B VOTE.
THE PLAN B VOTE.
ALL THE VOTES WHERE JOHN ALL THE VOTES WHERE JOHN BOEHNER HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO BOEHNER HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO HERD THE CATS IN HIS CAUCUS TO HERD THE CATS IN HIS CAUCUS TO GET THE VOTES TO PASS A GET THE VOTES TO PASS A REPUBLICAN BILL.
REPUBLICAN BILL.
AND SO LIKE BOB SAYS, IT IS -- AND SO LIKE BOB SAYS, IT IS -- THIS CENTER OF GRAVITY THAT'S THIS CENTER OF GRAVITY THAT'S VERY FAR TO THE RIGHT.
VERY FAR TO THE RIGHT.
THESE HOUSE REPUBLICANS WHO ARE THESE HOUSE REPUBLICANS WHO ARE CONSERVATIVES BUT MOST OF THEM CONSERVATIVES BUT MOST OF THEM DO WANT TO COMPROMISE AND DO WANT TO COMPROMISE AND GOVERN ARE STILL AFRAID OF WHAT GOVERN ARE STILL AFRAID OF WHAT THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS BACK HOME ARE GOING TO THINK IF BACK HOME ARE GOING TO THINK IF THEY'RE NOT ON THE SIDE OF THE THEY'RE NOT ON THE SIDE OF THE SORT OF MOST FLAMBOYANT SORT OF MOST FLAMBOYANT CONSERVATIVES.
CONSERVATIVES.
THE MICHELE BACHMANS OF THE THE MICHELE BACHMANS OF THE WORLD.
WORLD.
WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THEM?
WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THEM?
DOES IT MEAN THEY'RE A SQUISH DOES IT MEAN THEY'RE A SQUISH AND A TRAITOR TO CONSERVATISM?
AND A TRAITOR TO CONSERVATISM?
SO THEY'RE GOING TO FALL ON SO THEY'RE GOING TO FALL ON THAT SIDE IF THEY DON'T HAVE A THAT SIDE IF THEY DON'T HAVE A STRONG INCENTIVE NOT TO.
STRONG INCENTIVE NOT TO.
BOEHNER HAS A LAID BACK STYLE BOEHNER HAS A LAID BACK STYLE AS SPEAKER.
AS SPEAKER.
HE ALSO DOESN'T LIKE TO PASS HE ALSO DOESN'T LIKE TO PASS THINGS WITH DEMOCRATIC VOTES.
THINGS WITH DEMOCRATIC VOTES.
ALTHOUGH HE'S HAD TO DO THAT ALTHOUGH HE'S HAD TO DO THAT SEVERAL TIMES.
SEVERAL TIMES.
AND SO THAT MEANS THAT HE'S HAD AND SO THAT MEANS THAT HE'S HAD TO REPEATEDLY YANK THESE BILLS TO REPEATEDLY YANK THESE BILLS AND DIDN'T HAVE THE VOTES FOR.
AND DIDN'T HAVE THE VOTES FOR.
>> I JUST LOVE TO HEAR SOME OF >> I JUST LOVE TO HEAR SOME OF THE BEHIND-THE-SCENES, WOULDN'T THE BEHIND-THE-SCENES, WOULDN'T YOU LOVE TO BE A FLY ON THE YOU LOVE TO BE A FLY ON THE WALL OF WHAT WAS GOING ON WALL OF WHAT WAS GOING ON BETWEEN BERNIE SANDERS AND JEFF BETWEEN BERNIE SANDERS AND JEFF MILLER OR WHAT DID BOEHNER HAVE MILLER OR WHAT DID BOEHNER HAVE TO DO TO KIND OF BRING THIS TO TO DO TO KIND OF BRING THIS TO A VOTE?
A VOTE?
>> WELL, JEFF MILLER IN >> WELL, JEFF MILLER IN FLORIDA, AND BERNIE SANDERS FLORIDA, AND BERNIE SANDERS WERE ABLE TO CUT A DEAL ON WERE ABLE TO CUT A DEAL ON VETERANS AFFAIRS.
VETERANS AFFAIRS.
THAT WAS ONE OF THE RARE THAT WAS ONE OF THE RARE BIPARTISAN MOMENTS.
BIPARTISAN MOMENTS.
WE -- BUT ON THE BORDER I SAT WE -- BUT ON THE BORDER I SAT OWN THIS MORNING WITH COME OWN THIS MORNING WITH COME BATCH -- CONGRESSWOMAN BACHMAN BATCH -- CONGRESSWOMAN BACHMAN AND CONGRESSMAN KING AND THEY AND CONGRESSMAN KING AND THEY SAID YOU CAN REWRITE THE SAID YOU CAN REWRITE THE LEGISLATION FOR US.
LEGISLATION FOR US.
AND BOEHNER'S UNWILLINGNESS TO AND BOEHNER'S UNWILLINGNESS TO CHALLENGE -- CHALLENGE -- GWEN: WHAT IS HIS POINT?
GWEN: WHAT IS HIS POINT?
HE JUST WANTS TO GET ANYTHING HE JUST WANTS TO GET ANYTHING DONE?
DONE?
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT.
WELL, HE DOESN'T SEEM TO WANT WELL, HE DOESN'T SEEM TO WANT TO REALLY MAKE A MAJOR EFFORT TO REALLY MAKE A MAJOR EFFORT TO TRY TO GET A BIPARTISAN, TO TRY TO GET A BIPARTISAN, BICAMERAL DEAL.
BICAMERAL DEAL.
IF PURE GOING TO KING AND IF PURE GOING TO KING AND BACHMAN AT THE 11TH HOUR NOT BACHMAN AT THE 11TH HOUR NOT THE WAY TO GET A MAJOR DEAL IN THE WAY TO GET A MAJOR DEAL IN CONFERENCE.
CONFERENCE.
I THINK HE'S AFRAID TO CONFRONT I THINK HE'S AFRAID TO CONFRONT THE RIGHT AND RISK THE OUTRAGE THE RIGHT AND RISK THE OUTRAGE OF THOSE WHO ARE THE GRASSROOTS OF THOSE WHO ARE THE GRASSROOTS ACTIVISTS.
ACTIVISTS.
AND THAT'S -- DIMINISHED AND THAT'S -- DIMINISHED BOEHNER'S POLITICAL CAPITAL.
BOEHNER'S POLITICAL CAPITAL.
IT'S CRIPPLED HIS ABILITY TO IT'S CRIPPLED HIS ABILITY TO GET ANYTHING THROUGH HIS OWN GET ANYTHING THROUGH HIS OWN CHAMBER.
CHAMBER.
GWEN: AND HE -- PUTS HIM IN A GWEN: AND HE -- PUTS HIM IN A POSITION TO BE MOCKED BY THE POSITION TO BE MOCKED BY THE PRESIDENT WHO SAID TODAY THEY PRESIDENT WHO SAID TODAY THEY KNOW THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET KNOW THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET TO THE SENATE AND I'M GOING TO TO THE SENATE AND I'M GOING TO VETO IT ANYWAY SO WHAT'S THIS VETO IT ANYWAY SO WHAT'S THIS ABOUT?
ABOUT?
>> SO LET'S NOT FORGET, THOUGH, >> SO LET'S NOT FORGET, THOUGH, THAT THE SENATE ALSO DID NOT THAT THE SENATE ALSO DID NOT PASS BORDER LEGISLATION.
PASS BORDER LEGISLATION.
THE SENATE FAILED TO PASS A THE SENATE FAILED TO PASS A BILL ON THURSDAY.
BILL ON THURSDAY.
AND WENT HOME.
AND WENT HOME.
LEAVING IT IN THE HOUSE'S LEAVING IT IN THE HOUSE'S HANDS.
HANDS.
THE HOUSE IS NOT GOING TO PASS THE HOUSE IS NOT GOING TO PASS ANYTHING RESEMBLING WHAT THE ANYTHING RESEMBLING WHAT THE SENATE PASSED.
SENATE PASSED.
AND SO THE HOUSE'S ACTION WAS AND SO THE HOUSE'S ACTION WAS PURELY SYMBOLIC AND THE ONLY PURELY SYMBOLIC AND THE ONLY REASON FOR THEM TO PASS REASON FOR THEM TO PASS SOMETHING IS TO LOOK LIKE SOMETHING IS TO LOOK LIKE THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING.
THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING.
SO THERE'S A SORT OF SO THERE'S A SORT OF DYSFUNCTION ON BOTH ENDS OF THE DYSFUNCTION ON BOTH ENDS OF THE CAPITOL, RIGHT?
CAPITOL, RIGHT?
IT'S NOT AS IF THE PRESIDENT'S IT'S NOT AS IF THE PRESIDENT'S PARTY IN THE SENATE IS IN PARTY IN THE SENATE IS IN CONTROL ENOUGH TO MAKE IT CONTROL ENOUGH TO MAKE IT HAPPEN THERE, EITHER.
HAPPEN THERE, EITHER.
>> TED CRUZ OBVIOUSLY HAS HIS >> TED CRUZ OBVIOUSLY HAS HIS BACKERS IN THE SENATE AND MANY BACKERS IN THE SENATE AND MANY OF THEM SEEM SCARED OF HIM.
OF THEM SEEM SCARED OF HIM.
WHAT'S HIS ROLE HERE?
WHAT'S HIS ROLE HERE?
HOW COMMON IS IT FOR A SENATOR HOW COMMON IS IT FOR A SENATOR TO LOBBY IN THE HOUSE AS WELL?
TO LOBBY IN THE HOUSE AS WELL?
>> PRETTY EXTRAORDINARY.
>> PRETTY EXTRAORDINARY.
BUT IN TED CRUZ'S WORLD VIEW, BUT IN TED CRUZ'S WORLD VIEW, THERE ARE NO RULES.
THERE ARE NO RULES.
AND HE HAS -- AND HE HAS -- GWEN: RULES WE'VE COME TO KNOW GWEN: RULES WE'VE COME TO KNOW IN THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS.
IN THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS.
>> HE'S A LAWYER.
>> HE'S A LAWYER.
A VERY, VERY SKILLED A VERY, VERY SKILLED CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYER WHO'S CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYER WHO'S ARGUED BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT ARGUED BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT AND WHERE DOES IT SAY HE'S NOT AND WHERE DOES IT SAY HE'S NOT ALLOWED TO RUN THE HOUSE CAUCUS ALLOWED TO RUN THE HOUSE CAUCUS IF BOEHNER IN HIS VIEW ISN'T IF BOEHNER IN HIS VIEW ISN'T DOING IT?
DOING IT?
SO -- BUT TED CRUZ'S END GAME SO -- BUT TED CRUZ'S END GAME HERE IS ESSENTIALLY THAT HE'S HERE IS ESSENTIALLY THAT HE'S RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.
RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.
FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES.
FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES.
WE KNOW THAT THAT IS WHAT HE'S WE KNOW THAT THAT IS WHAT HE'S GOING FOR.
GOING FOR.
AND SO HIS WHOLE IMAGE IS AND SO HIS WHOLE IMAGE IS PREDICATED ON THIS TACTIC OF PREDICATED ON THIS TACTIC OF STICK BEING HIS FINGER IN THE STICK BEING HIS FINGER IN THE EYE OF LEADERSHIP.
EYE OF LEADERSHIP.
HE HAS THIS JOKE HE LOVES TO HE HAS THIS JOKE HE LOVES TO TELL ON THE TRAIL ABOUT HOW TELL ON THE TRAIL ABOUT HOW WHEN HIS LITTLE DAUGHTERS GANG WHEN HIS LITTLE DAUGHTERS GANG UP ON HIM AND ATTACK HIM HE UP ON HIM AND ATTACK HIM HE FEELS LIKE HE'S AROUND MITCH FEELS LIKE HE'S AROUND MITCH MCCONNELL AND SO HE GETS A LOT MCCONNELL AND SO HE GETS A LOT OF POLITICAL MILEAGE OUT OF OF POLITICAL MILEAGE OUT OF THIS.
THIS.
AND HE EXPECTS THAT HE CAN AND HE EXPECTS THAT HE CAN TRANSLATE THAT INTO A LARGE TRANSLATE THAT INTO A LARGE VOTE WITH THE REPUBLICAN BASE.
VOTE WITH THE REPUBLICAN BASE.
>> REAL QUICK, ON SENATOR CRUZ, >> REAL QUICK, ON SENATOR CRUZ, I THINK HE'S A VERY CAGEY I THINK HE'S A VERY CAGEY POLITICAL OPERATOR.
POLITICAL OPERATOR.
I SAT DOWN WITH HIM ON THURSDAY I SAT DOWN WITH HIM ON THURSDAY AFTERNOON.
AFTERNOON.
AND I ASKED HIM ABOUT HIS AND I ASKED HIM ABOUT HIS MEDDLING IN HOUSE AFFAIRS.
MEDDLING IN HOUSE AFFAIRS.
AND HE DENIED THAT HE DID AND HE DENIED THAT HE DID ANYTHING DIRECTLY TO CAUSE ANYTHING DIRECTLY TO CAUSE BOEHNER'S BILL TO STUMBLE.
BOEHNER'S BILL TO STUMBLE.
AND I THINK THIS IS HOW CRUZ AND I THINK THIS IS HOW CRUZ OPERATES WITHIN THE SENATE.
OPERATES WITHIN THE SENATE.
NOW HE OPERATES WITHIN NATIONAL NOW HE OPERATES WITHIN NATIONAL POLITICS.
POLITICS.
HE MEETS WITH HOUSE HE MEETS WITH HOUSE CONSERVATIVES.
CONSERVATIVES.
HE CLEARLY INFLUENCES THEM.
HE CLEARLY INFLUENCES THEM.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, HE BUT AT THE SAME TIME, HE DOESN'T LIKE THE HEAT.
DOESN'T LIKE THE HEAT.
HE DOESN'T LIKE ALL THIS HE DOESN'T LIKE ALL THIS ATTENTION FROM DEMOCRATS ATTENTION FROM DEMOCRATS CALLING HIM SPEAKER CRUZ.
CALLING HIM SPEAKER CRUZ.
AND THAT'S GOING TO BE A AND THAT'S GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE FOR HIM AS HE MAYBE CHALLENGE FOR HIM AS HE MAYBE THINKS ABOUT A WHITE HOUSE BID.
THINKS ABOUT A WHITE HOUSE BID.
GWEN: WHAT'S INTERESTING IS GWEN: WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THAT -- CONGRESS DID GET SOME THAT -- CONGRESS DID GET SOME THINGS PASSED.
THINGS PASSED.
THEY GOT THIS V.A.
COMPROMISE THEY GOT THIS V.A.
COMPROMISE PASSED THROUGH BOTH HOUSES AND PASSED THROUGH BOTH HOUSES AND A PARTIAL EXTENSION OF THE A PARTIAL EXTENSION OF THE TRANSPORTATION BILL.
TRANSPORTATION BILL.
BUT THE OTHER BIG THING THAT BUT THE OTHER BIG THING THAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK WAS THEY HAPPENED THIS WEEK WAS THEY ACTUALLY VOTED TO SUE THE ACTUALLY VOTED TO SUE THE PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT.
IT WAS ONE OF THESE THINGS IT WAS ONE OF THESE THINGS WHICH EMPOWERED -- TECHNICALLY WHICH EMPOWERED -- TECHNICALLY EMPOWERED THE HOUSE SPEAKER, EMPOWERED THE HOUSE SPEAKER, JOHN BOEHNER, TO SUE HIM.
JOHN BOEHNER, TO SUE HIM.
AND ESSENTIALLY THAT WAS FOR AND ESSENTIALLY THAT WAS FOR DERELICTION OF DUTY.
DERELICTION OF DUTY.
SOME REPUBLICANS HAD BEEN SOME REPUBLICANS HAD BEEN TALKING IMPEACHMENT.
TALKING IMPEACHMENT.
WHICH POLLS SHOW TO BE BROADLY WHICH POLLS SHOW TO BE BROADLY UNPOPULAR.
UNPOPULAR.
SO BOEHNER HAD TO KNOCK THAT SO BOEHNER HAD TO KNOCK THAT DOWN.
DOWN.
>> WE HAVE NO PLANS TO IMPEACH >> WE HAVE NO PLANS TO IMPEACH THE PRESIDENT.
THE PRESIDENT.
WE HAVE NO FUTURE PLA.
WE HAVE NO FUTURE PLA.
LISTEN, IT'S ALL A SCAM STARTED LISTEN, IT'S ALL A SCAM STARTED BY DEMOCRATS AT THE WHITE BY DEMOCRATS AT THE WHITE HOUSE.
HOUSE.
GWEN: AND DEMOCRATS DO SEEM TO GWEN: AND DEMOCRATS DO SEEM TO BE ODDLY ENERGIZED BY THE OUST BE ODDLY ENERGIZED BY THE OUST OBAMA EFFORTS.
OBAMA EFFORTS.
THE PRESIDENT TODAY APPEARED THE PRESIDENT TODAY APPEARED HAPPY FOR THE CHANCE TO PUSH HAPPY FOR THE CHANCE TO PUSH BACK.
BACK.
>> THEY CAN'T EVEN PASS THEIR >> THEY CAN'T EVEN PASS THEIR OWN VERSION OF THE BILL.
OWN VERSION OF THE BILL.
SO THAT'S NOT A DISAGREEMENT SO THAT'S NOT A DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN ME AND THE HOUSE BETWEEN ME AND THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS.
REPUBLICANS.
THAT'S A DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THAT'S A DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS AND THE THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS AND THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS.
HOUSE REPUBLICANS.
GWEN: BY THE END OF THE WEEK, GWEN: BY THE END OF THE WEEK, THERE WAS ONLY A LITTLE BIT OF THERE WAS ONLY A LITTLE BIT OF CLARITY.
CLARITY.
FIRST OFF, IS ANYBODY REALLY FIRST OFF, IS ANYBODY REALLY SUING ANYBODY?
SUING ANYBODY?
IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN?
IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN?
>> NO.
>> NO.
THE CLIMATE IN WHICH THIS THE CLIMATE IN WHICH THIS LAWSUIT HAPPENS IS THAT A LOT LAWSUIT HAPPENS IS THAT A LOT OF CONSERVATIVES WHO WOULD LIKE OF CONSERVATIVES WHO WOULD LIKE TO IMPEACH THE PRESIDENT.
TO IMPEACH THE PRESIDENT.
AT LEAST ON THE FAR RIGHT OF AT LEAST ON THE FAR RIGHT OF THE PARTY.
THE PARTY.
BOEHNER KNOWS THIS.
BOEHNER KNOWS THIS.
AND HE'S TRYING TO MANAGE A AND HE'S TRYING TO MANAGE A VERY UNRULY CAUCUS AND SO HE VERY UNRULY CAUCUS AND SO HE GOES KIND OF HALFWAY BY SUING GOES KIND OF HALFWAY BY SUING THE PRESIDENT.
THE PRESIDENT.
AND HE FOCUSES ON EXECUTIVE AND HE FOCUSES ON EXECUTIVE ORDERS RELATED TO HEALTH CARE.
ORDERS RELATED TO HEALTH CARE.
BUT IT HASN'T DONE MUCH TO CALM BUT IT HASN'T DONE MUCH TO CALM HIS RANKS.
HIS RANKS.
AND I THINK THE PRESIDENT HAS AND I THINK THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN ABLE TO USE THIS TO HIS BEEN ABLE TO USE THIS TO HIS POLITICAL ADVANTAGE AND YOU POLITICAL ADVANTAGE AND YOU LOOK AT THE MILLIONS DEMOCRATS LOOK AT THE MILLIONS DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO RAISE SINCE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO RAISE SINCE THIS LAWSUIT HAPPENED.
THIS LAWSUIT HAPPENED.
IT'S A POTENT THING AHEAD OF IT'S A POTENT THING AHEAD OF THE MID TERMS FOR THEM.
THE MID TERMS FOR THEM.
>> I THINK WHAT'S REALLY >> I THINK WHAT'S REALLY INTERESTING HERE IS ONE DAY INTERESTING HERE IS ONE DAY THAT ARE TALKING ABOUT SUING THAT ARE TALKING ABOUT SUING THE PRESIDENT.
THE PRESIDENT.
THE NEXT DAY REPUBLICANS ARE THE NEXT DAY REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING, OH, THERE ARE THINGS SAYING, OH, THERE ARE THINGS THAT THE PRESIDENT CAN DO IN THAT THE PRESIDENT CAN DO IN EXECUTIVE ORDER.
EXECUTIVE ORDER.
WHICH IS WHY THEY'RE SUING HIM WHICH IS WHY THEY'RE SUING HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE.
IN THE FIRST PLACE.
ON THE IMMIGRATION ISSUE.
ON THE IMMIGRATION ISSUE.
SO I'M NOT REALLY CLEAR WHETHER SO I'M NOT REALLY CLEAR WHETHER THE DIVISIONS WITHIN THE THE DIVISIONS WITHIN THE REPUBLICANS THEMSELVES ARE MORE REPUBLICANS THEMSELVES ARE MORE IMPORTANT AT THIS POINT OR IMPORTANT AT THIS POINT OR LARGER THAN THE DIVISIONS THAT LARGER THAN THE DIVISIONS THAT THEY HAVE WITH THE WHITE HOUSE.
THEY HAVE WITH THE WHITE HOUSE.
THE DEMOCRATS.
THE DEMOCRATS.
>> AND THERE WAS A LOT OF >> AND THERE WAS A LOT OF MOCKERY OF THE MOUSE MOCKERY OF THE MOUSE REPUBLICANS FOR THAT BEING REPUBLICANS FOR THAT BEING THEIR RESPONSE.
THEIR RESPONSE.
AFTER THE CONGRESS COLLECTIVELY AFTER THE CONGRESS COLLECTIVELY FAILED TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE FAILED TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE BORDER, THEY SAID, WELL, THIS BORDER, THEY SAID, WELL, THIS IS ALL BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT IS ALL BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT HASN'T DONE HIS JOB.
HASN'T DONE HIS JOB.
AND THERE ARE STILL THINGS HE AND THERE ARE STILL THINGS HE CAN DO.
CAN DO.
AT THE SAME TIME AS YOU POINT AT THE SAME TIME AS YOU POINT OUT.
OUT.
AS THERE ARE POTENTIALLY SUING AS THERE ARE POTENTIALLY SUING HIM FOR EXECUTIVE OVERREACH AND HIM FOR EXECUTIVE OVERREACH AND TOO MANY OF THESE EXECUTIVE TOO MANY OF THESE EXECUTIVE ORDERS.
ORDERS.
SO THERE IS A VERY RICH IRONY SO THERE IS A VERY RICH IRONY THERE.
THERE.
WHICH HAS NOT GONE UNNOTICED.
WHICH HAS NOT GONE UNNOTICED.
AND IN COMES POLITICALLY AT A AND IN COMES POLITICALLY AT A POINT WHERE EVERYTHING WAS POINT WHERE EVERYTHING WAS GOING REALLY WELL FOR GOING REALLY WELL FOR REPUBLICANS.
REPUBLICANS.
THERE'S INCREASINGLY A THERE'S INCREASINGLY A CONVENTIONAL WISDOM THAT CONVENTIONAL WISDOM THAT THEY'RE POISED TO RETAKE THE THEY'RE POISED TO RETAKE THE SENATE.
SENATE.
THERE'S NO WAY THEY LOSE THE THERE'S NO WAY THEY LOSE THE HOUSE.
HOUSE.
THEY'RE SORT OF ON A GLIDE PATH THEY'RE SORT OF ON A GLIDE PATH TO NOVEMBER.
TO NOVEMBER.
AS LONG AS THEY DON'T SCREW IT AS LONG AS THEY DON'T SCREW IT UP.
UP.
SO OF COURSE THEY FIND A WAY TO SO OF COURSE THEY FIND A WAY TO SORT OF STEP ON THEIR OWN FEET.
SORT OF STEP ON THEIR OWN FEET.
GWEN: I WAS IN WISCONSIN GWEN: I WAS IN WISCONSIN WORKING ON A STORY AND WENT TO WORKING ON A STORY AND WENT TO A TOWN HALL MEETING FOR JIM A TOWN HALL MEETING FOR JIM SENSEN BRENNER.
SENSEN BRENNER.
THE TWO THINGS THAT CAME UP IN THE TWO THINGS THAT CAME UP IN THIS COMFORTABLE MILWAUKEE THIS COMFORTABLE MILWAUKEE SUBURB.
SUBURB.
IMPEACHMENT AND IMMIGRATION.
IMPEACHMENT AND IMMIGRATION.
THEY WERE ANGRY.
THEY WERE ANGRY.
AND I WONDER IF THESE FOLKS GO AND I WONDER IF THESE FOLKS GO HOME NOW FOR THEIR DISTRICT HOME NOW FOR THEIR DISTRICT WORK PERIOD AS THEY LIKE TO WORK PERIOD AS THEY LIKE TO CALL IT, THEY'RE GOING TO HEAR CALL IT, THEY'RE GOING TO HEAR A LOT MORE OF THIS AND THIS A LOT MORE OF THIS AND THIS WILL ENERGIZE THEM EVEN IF THE WILL ENERGIZE THEM EVEN IF THE LEADERSHIP THINKS IT'S A LOSING LEADERSHIP THINKS IT'S A LOSING DEVELOP.
DEVELOP.
>> IT IS.
>> IT IS.
WHEN I WAS AT THE CAPITOL THIS WHEN I WAS AT THE CAPITOL THIS MORNING YOU HEAR FROM THE MORNING YOU HEAR FROM THE CONSERVATIVES AND RANK AND FILE CONSERVATIVES AND RANK AND FILE MEMBERS.
MEMBERS.
MOUSE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE MOUSE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE THAT THEIR CONSTITUENTS AT THAT THEIR CONSTITUENTS AT LEAST ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF LEAST ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THINGS, THEY REALLY DO BELIEVE THINGS, THEY REALLY DO BELIEVE THE PRESIDENT IS LAWLESS AND THE PRESIDENT IS LAWLESS AND TALKING ABOUT IMPEACHMENT.
TALKING ABOUT IMPEACHMENT.
AND TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRATION.
AND TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRATION.
AND THIS IS CREATING A CULTURE AND THIS IS CREATING A CULTURE WITHIN THE HOUSE G.O.P.
WHERE WITHIN THE HOUSE G.O.P.
WHERE THEY CAN'T GOVERN.
THEY CAN'T GOVERN.
AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THEY HAD TO TRY TO PASS REASONS THEY HAD TO TRY TO PASS THIS BORDER BILL FRIDAY NIGHT.
THIS BORDER BILL FRIDAY NIGHT.
THEY NEEDED SOMETHING TO TALK THEY NEEDED SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT TO SAY THEY'RE TAKING ON ABOUT TO SAY THEY'RE TAKING ON PRESIDENT OBAMA.
PRESIDENT OBAMA.
>> THE FACT THAT THEY MAY NOT >> THE FACT THAT THEY MAY NOT BE GOVERNING, DO THEY CARE?
BE GOVERNING, DO THEY CARE?
OR DO THEY WEAR THAT AS A BADGE OR DO THEY WEAR THAT AS A BADGE OF PRIDE?
OF PRIDE?
AND STOP THE MACHINERY?
AND STOP THE MACHINERY?
>> IT DEPENDS WHO THE THEY IS >> IT DEPENDS WHO THE THEY IS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THE REPUBLICAN ESTABLISHMENT, THE REPUBLICAN ESTABLISHMENT, REPUBLICANS IN D.C., REPUBLICANS IN D.C., PROFESSIONAL REPUBLICANS, AND PROFESSIONAL REPUBLICANS, AND THE MAJORITY OF THE REPUBLICANS THE MAJORITY OF THE REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE, THEY IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE, THEY DO WORRY ABOUT THIS.
DO WORRY ABOUT THIS.
AND THEY KNOW THAT THAT IS THE AND THEY KNOW THAT THAT IS THE MISSING PIECE.
MISSING PIECE.
THEY KNOW THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THEY KNOW THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THE POLLS PEOPLE ARE FED UP THE POLLS PEOPLE ARE FED UP WITH THE PRESIDENT.
WITH THE PRESIDENT.
PEOPLE ARE NOT REALLY THRILLED PEOPLE ARE NOT REALLY THRILLED ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS.
ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS.
AND THEY -- THE LAST PIECE OF AND THEY -- THE LAST PIECE OF REASSURANCE THAT PEOPLE NEED TO REASSURANCE THAT PEOPLE NEED TO VOTE REPUBLICAN IS TO FEEL THAT VOTE REPUBLICAN IS TO FEEL THAT REPUBLICANS COULD GOVERN.
REPUBLICANS COULD GOVERN.
GWEN: THERE'S ONE THING THAT GWEN: THERE'S ONE THING THAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK WHICH WE HAPPENED THIS WEEK WHICH WE DON'T WANT TO SKATE OVER WHICH DON'T WANT TO SKATE OVER WHICH IS THE DEMOCRATS MADE A LOT OF IS THE DEMOCRATS MADE A LOT OF MONEY ON THIS.
MONEY ON THIS.
THEY RAISED ALMOST $5 MILLION THEY RAISED ALMOST $5 MILLION FROM ANGRY DEMOCRATS WHO FROM ANGRY DEMOCRATS WHO THOUGHT THAT SOMEBODY WAS THOUGHT THAT SOMEBODY WAS REALLY TRYING TO IMPEACH THE REALLY TRYING TO IMPEACH THE PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT.
AND WE HEARD BOEHNER CALL IT A AND WE HEARD BOEHNER CALL IT A SCAM.
SCAM.
THE DEMOCRATS ARE NOT UNHAPPY THE DEMOCRATS ARE NOT UNHAPPY ABOUT THIS FIGHT.
ABOUT THIS FIGHT.
THIS MAY BE THEIR BIG CHANCE.
THIS MAY BE THEIR BIG CHANCE.
>> THE DEMOCRATS ARE RELISHING >> THE DEMOCRATS ARE RELISHING THIS MOMENT BECAUSE THEY'RE THIS MOMENT BECAUSE THEY'RE DEALING WITH AN UNPOPULAR DEALING WITH AN UNPOPULAR PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT.
MOST DEMOCRATIC SENATE MOST DEMOCRATIC SENATE CANDIDATES ARE NOT INVITING CANDIDATES ARE NOT INVITING PRESIDENT OBAMA TO HIT THE PRESIDENT OBAMA TO HIT THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL WITH THEM.
CAMPAIGN TRAIL WITH THEM.
THEY HAVE TO GET PRESIDENT THEY HAVE TO GET PRESIDENT OBAMA'S POPULARITY UP.
OBAMA'S POPULARITY UP.
IF NOT WITH VOTERS AT LARGE AT IF NOT WITH VOTERS AT LARGE AT LEAST WITH THE DEMOCRATIC BASE.
LEAST WITH THE DEMOCRATIC BASE.
WHEN PRESIDENT OBAMA SEEMS LIKE WHEN PRESIDENT OBAMA SEEMS LIKE HE'S THE VICTIM OF HOUSE HE'S THE VICTIM OF HOUSE REPUBLICANS WHO ARE GOING OVER REPUBLICANS WHO ARE GOING OVER THE TOP WITH THIS IMPEACHMENT THE TOP WITH THIS IMPEACHMENT TALK, THAT GETS DEMOCRATS AND TALK, THAT GETS DEMOCRATS AND PLACES LIKE GEORGIA EXCITED.
PLACES LIKE GEORGIA EXCITED.
PLACES WHERE THERE ARE OTHER PLACES WHERE THERE ARE OTHER KEY SENATE RACES THAT'S KEY SENATE RACES THAT'S IMPORTANT TO DEMOCRATS.
IMPORTANT TO DEMOCRATS.
>> I THOUGHT ONE THING WAS >> I THOUGHT ONE THING WAS INTERESTING LAST NIGHT.
INTERESTING LAST NIGHT.
GWEN: GO AHEAD.
GWEN: GO AHEAD.
FINISH YOUR THAULT.
FINISH YOUR THAULT.
>> ONE INTERESTING THING LAST >> ONE INTERESTING THING LAST NIGHT THAT THE SENATE WAS ABLE NIGHT THAT THE SENATE WAS ABLE TO CONFIRM THE RUSSIAN -- THE TO CONFIRM THE RUSSIAN -- THE U.S.
AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA BUT U.S.
AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA BUT NOT THE AMBASSADOR TO GUATEMALA NOT THE AMBASSADOR TO GUATEMALA WHERE THIS WHOLE CRISIS IS WHERE THIS WHOLE CRISIS IS STIRRING.
STIRRING.
GWEN: EXACTLY.
GWEN: EXACTLY.
WE'RE -- THAT'S A NICE SEGUE WE'RE -- THAT'S A NICE SEGUE BECAUSE WE WILL MOVE TO FOREIGN BECAUSE WE WILL MOVE TO FOREIGN POLICY BECAUSE WORLD CONFLICT POLICY BECAUSE WORLD CONFLICT HAS GONE FROM CONCERNING TO HAS GONE FROM CONCERNING TO KERR FIGE.
KERR FIGE.
AND RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT AND RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT ALL THE U.S.
STRUGGLES.
ALL THE U.S.
STRUGGLES.
YOU UNSUCCESSFULLY FOR THE MOST YOU UNSUCCESSFULLY FOR THE MOST PART TO FORCE ACTION.
PART TO FORCE ACTION.
THE PRESIDENT REFLECTED ON THAT THE PRESIDENT REFLECTED ON THAT TODAY.
TODAY.
>> I THINK MANY OF US RECOGNIZE >> I THINK MANY OF US RECOGNIZE THE DILEMMA WE HAVE.
THE DILEMMA WE HAVE.
ON THE ONE HAND, ISRAEL HAS A ON THE ONE HAND, ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF AND IT'S RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF AND IT'S GOT TO BE ABLE TO GET AT THOSE GOT TO BE ABLE TO GET AT THOSE ROCKETS AND THOSE TUNNELS ROCKETS AND THOSE TUNNELS NETWORKS.
NETWORKS.
ON THE OTHER HAND, BECAUSE OF ON THE OTHER HAND, BECAUSE OF BEING -- THE IRRESPONSIBLE BEING -- THE IRRESPONSIBLE ACTIONS ON THE PART OF HAMAS TO ACTIONS ON THE PART OF HAMAS TO OFTENTIMES HOUSE THESE ROCKET OFTENTIMES HOUSE THESE ROCKET LAUNCHES RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF LAUNCHES RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF CIVILIAN NEIGHBORHOODS, WE END CIVILIAN NEIGHBORHOODS, WE END UP SEEING PEOPLE WHO HAD UP SEEING PEOPLE WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH NIECE NOTHING TO DO WITH NIECE ROCKETS ENDED UP BEING HURT.
ROCKETS ENDED UP BEING HURT.
GWEN: TODAY'S DISTURBING GWEN: TODAY'S DISTURBING DEVELOPMENT, THE APPARENT DEVELOPMENT, THE APPARENT ABDUCTION OF AN ISRAELI SOLDIER ABDUCTION OF AN ISRAELI SOLDIER IN GAZA.
IN GAZA.
O WHERE DO WE STAND ON THIS O WHERE DO WE STAND ON THIS TONIGHT, ELISE?
TONIGHT, ELISE?
>> WELL, THE ISRAELIS ARE >> WELL, THE ISRAELIS ARE SAYING THAT THEY'RE GOING TO SAYING THAT THEY'RE GOING TO INCREASE THEIR OFFENSIVE.
INCREASE THEIR OFFENSIVE.
THEY'RE LOOKING FOR THE SOLDIER THEY'RE LOOKING FOR THE SOLDIER OBVIOUSLY GOING HOUSE TO HOUSE.
OBVIOUSLY GOING HOUSE TO HOUSE.
THEY'VE TOLD CITIZENS IN GAZA THEY'VE TOLD CITIZENS IN GAZA TO EVACUATE CERTAIN AREAS.
TO EVACUATE CERTAIN AREAS.
AND THEY SHOW NO SIGNS OF AND THEY SHOW NO SIGNS OF STOPPING.
STOPPING.
I THINK CLEARLY THE CEASE-FIRE I THINK CLEARLY THE CEASE-FIRE TALKS ARE DEAD RIGHT NOW.
TALKS ARE DEAD RIGHT NOW.
THEY HOPE THAT THEY CAN GET THEY HOPE THAT THEY CAN GET THEM UP AT SOME POINT.
THEM UP AT SOME POINT.
BUT THE QUESTION I THINK RIGHT BUT THE QUESTION I THINK RIGHT NOW IS HOW DOES THIS CHANGE NOW IS HOW DOES THIS CHANGE ISRAEL'S STRATEGY?
ISRAEL'S STRATEGY?
THEY HAD SAID THAT THE STRATEGY THEY HAD SAID THAT THE STRATEGY WAS REALLY A SUSTAINED CALM.
WAS REALLY A SUSTAINED CALM.
AND THAT MEANT GETTING RID OF AND THAT MEANT GETTING RID OF THE ROCKETS, DESTROYING SOME OF THE ROCKETS, DESTROYING SOME OF THE TUNNELS.
THE TUNNELS.
BUT NOW IS THEIR LONGER-TERM BUT NOW IS THEIR LONGER-TERM GOAL OF GETTING RID OF HAMAS GOAL OF GETTING RID OF HAMAS AND CRUSHING THEM GOING TO BE AND CRUSHING THEM GOING TO BE THE IMMEDIATE STRATEGY RIGHT THE IMMEDIATE STRATEGY RIGHT NOW?
NOW?
GWEN: IT SEEMS AS IF WE SIT GWEN: IT SEEMS AS IF WE SIT AROUND THIS TABLE HE HAVE WEEK AROUND THIS TABLE HE HAVE WEEK AND WE LOOK FOR A DIFFERENT WAY AND WE LOOK FOR A DIFFERENT WAY WHICH IS WHAT IS THE WAY OUT?
WHICH IS WHAT IS THE WAY OUT?
THERE ARE SOME -- ACTORS THERE ARE SOME -- ACTORS USUALLY AT THE TABLE HERE IN USUALLY AT THE TABLE HERE IN THIS THESE KIND OF CONFLICTS THIS THESE KIND OF CONFLICTS WHO ARE ABSENT THIS TIME.
WHO ARE ABSENT THIS TIME.
>> IT'S FASCINATING.
>> IT'S FASCINATING.
NORMALLY THE WAY THESE WIND NORMALLY THE WAY THESE WIND DOWN IS ISRAEL FIGHTS, HAMAS DOWN IS ISRAEL FIGHTS, HAMAS FIGHTS, EGYPT STEPS IN AND FIGHTS, EGYPT STEPS IN AND EGYPT IS THE IMMEDIATE RATOR.
EGYPT IS THE IMMEDIATE RATOR.
-- IS THE MEDIATOR.
-- IS THE MEDIATOR.
THAT'S NOT HAPPENING NOW.
THAT'S NOT HAPPENING NOW.
YOU HAVE THESE DIVISIONS THAT YOU HAVE THESE DIVISIONS THAT NEVER EXISTED BEFORE AND YOU NEVER EXISTED BEFORE AND YOU THINK THE DIVISION THAT MATTERS THINK THE DIVISION THAT MATTERS IS IRAN ARABS.
IS IRAN ARABS.
WHAT MATTERS NOW IS ARAB ARAB.
WHAT MATTERS NOW IS ARAB ARAB.
EGYPT ON THE ONE SIDE, CLOSE TO EGYPT ON THE ONE SIDE, CLOSE TO ISRAEL AND CLOSER THAN EVER ISRAEL AND CLOSER THAN EVER BEFORE AND QATAR ON THE OTHER BEFORE AND QATAR ON THE OTHER AND CLOSER TO HAMAS THAN EVER AND CLOSER TO HAMAS THAN EVER BEFORE AND THAT'S THE CLASH.
BEFORE AND THAT'S THE CLASH.
GWEN: IT DOESN'T EVEN SOUND GWEN: IT DOESN'T EVEN SOUND LIKE HAMAS IS COMPLETELY LIKE HAMAS IS COMPLETELY UNIFIED.
UNIFIED.
THEY SEEM TO TAKE CREDIT FOR THEY SEEM TO TAKE CREDIT FOR THE ABDUCTION OF THE ISRAELI THE ABDUCTION OF THE ISRAELI SOLDIER AND ON THE OTHER HAND, SOLDIER AND ON THE OTHER HAND, THEY SEEM TO SAY WE HAD NOTHING THEY SEEM TO SAY WE HAD NOTHING TO DO.
TO DO.
THIS IS ANOTHER PALESTINIAN THIS IS ANOTHER PALESTINIAN FACTION.
FACTION.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT.
THEY'RE NOT SURE HOW FAR DO THEY'RE NOT SURE HOW FAR DO THEY GO BEFORE THEY CAUSE SO THEY GO BEFORE THEY CAUSE SO MUCH SUFFERING IN GAZA THAT MUCH SUFFERING IN GAZA THAT PEOPLE START TO BLAME THEM?
PEOPLE START TO BLAME THEM?
AT A CERTAIN POINT IT TWISTS.
AT A CERTAIN POINT IT TWISTS.
AT A CERTAIN POINT THE AT A CERTAIN POINT THE NARRATIVE GOES FROM WE'RE BEING NARRATIVE GOES FROM WE'RE BEING MASSACRED BY THE ISRAELIS TO MASSACRED BY THE ISRAELIS TO WE'RE BEING MASSACRED BECAUSE WE'RE BEING MASSACRED BECAUSE OF YOU.
OF YOU.
GWEN: AND YOU'VE HEARD LIKE GWEN: AND YOU'VE HEARD LIKE SOME OF THE ARABS NOW, IT USED SOME OF THE ARABS NOW, IT USED TO BE WHEN THESE -- THIS CRISIS TO BE WHEN THESE -- THIS CRISIS ALL THE CRITICISM WAS OF ALL THE CRITICISM WAS OF ISRAEL.
ISRAEL.
NOW THE -- THE CRITICISM OF NOW THE -- THE CRITICISM OF ISRAEL IS VERY MUTED.
ISRAEL IS VERY MUTED.
EVEN THE SAUDI KING TODAY CAME EVEN THE SAUDI KING TODAY CAME OUT AND TALKED ABOUT KIND OF OUT AND TALKED ABOUT KIND OF JOINT TERRORISM, WHETHER IT'S A JOINT TERRORISM, WHETHER IT'S A STATE OR WHETHER IT'S AN STATE OR WHETHER IT'S AN ORGANIZATION.
ORGANIZATION.
AND IT'S AS YOCHI HAS SAID, AND IT'S AS YOCHI HAS SAID, THESE REGIONAL SHIFTS OF THESE REGIONAL SHIFTS OF POLITICS THAT YOU WOULD HAVE POLITICS THAT YOU WOULD HAVE THE EGYPTIANS AND THE SAUDIS THE EGYPTIANS AND THE SAUDIS AND THE U.A.
ON THE ONE SIDE AND THE U.A.
ON THE ONE SIDE AND QATAR AND TURKEY ON THE AND QATAR AND TURKEY ON THE OTHER SIDE AND THEY REALLY OTHER SIDE AND THEY REALLY THINK THAT THIS IS ALL KIND OF THINK THAT THIS IS ALL KIND OF INVOLVED IN EGYPT AND THE INVOLVED IN EGYPT AND THE CRACKDOWN ON THE MUSLIM CRACKDOWN ON THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD.
BROTHERHOOD.
IT'S REALLY INTERESTING IT'S REALLY INTERESTING POLITICAL DYNAMIC THAT'S NOW POLITICAL DYNAMIC THAT'S NOW PLAYING OUT IN THE PLAYING OUT IN THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT.
ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT.
>> IN TERMS OF AMERICA'S ROLE >> IN TERMS OF AMERICA'S ROLE IN ALL THIS, HOW IS -- IN ALL THIS, HOW IS -- SECRETARY OF STATE JOHN KERRY'S SECRETARY OF STATE JOHN KERRY'S CONDUCT BEEN EVALUATED?
CONDUCT BEEN EVALUATED?
WHAT HAS BEEN THE CRITICISM OR WHAT HAS BEEN THE CRITICISM OR THE PHRASE -- THE PHRASE -- >> WELL, THERE WERE SOME >> WELL, THERE WERE SOME REPORTS IN THE ISRAELI PRESS REPORTS IN THE ISRAELI PRESS THAT CALLED SECRETARY KERRY -- THAT CALLED SECRETARY KERRY -- SECRETARY KERRY'S PROPOSAL OF A SECRETARY KERRY'S PROPOSAL OF A CEASE-FIRE, A STRATEGIC CEASE-FIRE, A STRATEGIC TERRORIST ATTACK, HE'S A FRIEND TERRORIST ATTACK, HE'S A FRIEND OF HAMAS.
OF HAMAS.
HE'S RUINED EVERYTHING.
HE'S RUINED EVERYTHING.
AND I THINK FOR U.S. OFFICIALS AND I THINK FOR U.S. OFFICIALS THAT YOU TALK TO, THEY REALLY THAT YOU TALK TO, THEY REALLY WERE JUST KIND OF OUTRAGED BY WERE JUST KIND OF OUTRAGED BY ALL OF THAT.
ALL OF THAT.
THE U.S.
GIVES SO MUCH SUPPORT THE U.S.
GIVES SO MUCH SUPPORT OF ISRAEL AND STANDS ALONE AT OF ISRAEL AND STANDS ALONE AT THE UNITED NATIONS AND TAKES THE UNITED NATIONS AND TAKES ALL THIS ABUSE FROM THE WORLD ALL THIS ABUSE FROM THE WORLD COMMUNITY ON BEHALF OF ISRAEL.
COMMUNITY ON BEHALF OF ISRAEL.
AND LOOK, JOHN KERRY MAYBE NOT AND LOOK, JOHN KERRY MAYBE NOT ALWAYS THE MOST ARTFUL DIPLOMAT ALWAYS THE MOST ARTFUL DIPLOMAT AND MAYBE STEPS IN IT AND MAYBE STEPS IN IT SOMETIMES.
SOMETIMES.
BUT REALLY WORKING HIS TAIL OFF BUT REALLY WORKING HIS TAIL OFF AND TO INSINUATE AS FAR AS U.S. AND TO INSINUATE AS FAR AS U.S. OFFICIALS SAY THAT HE DOESN'T OFFICIALS SAY THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE ISRAEL'S BEST INTERESTS AT HAVE ISRAEL'S BEST INTERESTS AT HEART OR HE'S A FRIEND OF HAMAS HEART OR HE'S A FRIEND OF HAMAS IS JUST REALLY OFFENSIVE.
IS JUST REALLY OFFENSIVE.
AND THAT'S WHY FINALLY TODAY AND THAT'S WHY FINALLY TODAY YOU HEARD THIS FULL THROATED YOU HEARD THIS FULL THROATED DEFENSE OF SECRETARY KERRY BY DEFENSE OF SECRETARY KERRY BY PRESIDENT OBAMA.
PRESIDENT OBAMA.
>> WHEN YOU LISTEN TO PRESIDENT >> WHEN YOU LISTEN TO PRESIDENT OBAMA TODAY AT THE PODIUM, HE OBAMA TODAY AT THE PODIUM, HE SOUNDED QUITE PESSIMISTIC IT SOUNDED QUITE PESSIMISTIC IT SEEMED ABOUT THE CONFLICT.
SEEMED ABOUT THE CONFLICT.
AND ABOUT THE CEASE-FIRE.
AND ABOUT THE CEASE-FIRE.
HOW DO YOU THINK HIS PRESS HOW DO YOU THINK HIS PRESS CONFERENCE TODAY WILL BE CONFERENCE TODAY WILL BE INTERPRETED IN ISRAEL BY -- AND INTERPRETED IN ISRAEL BY -- AND BY HAMAS?
BY HAMAS?
>> INTERESTING THING.
>> INTERESTING THING.
BEFORE THE PRESS CONFERENCE, BEFORE THE PRESS CONFERENCE, JOHN KERRY PUT OUT A STATEMENT, JOHN KERRY PUT OUT A STATEMENT, THE WORDS WERE ULTIMATELY THE THE WORDS WERE ULTIMATELY THE SAME.
SAME.
AND WHAT WAS STRIKING WAS IT AND WHAT WAS STRIKING WAS IT DID NOT MENTION HAMAS AT ALL.
DID NOT MENTION HAMAS AT ALL.
IT DID NOT MENTION ISRAELI IT DID NOT MENTION ISRAELI CONDUCT AT ALL.
CONDUCT AT ALL.
THE PRESS CONFERENCE AND THE THE PRESS CONFERENCE AND THE RELEASE FOR BOTH HAMAS RELEASE FOR BOTH HAMAS VIOLATED.
VIOLATED.
HAMAS WAS OUTRAGEOUS.
HAMAS WAS OUTRAGEOUS.
THIS IS ALL ON HAMAS.
THIS IS ALL ON HAMAS.
PART OF THAT TO GET TO YOUR PART OF THAT TO GET TO YOUR POINT, MOLLY, THEY KNOW THEY'RE POINT, MOLLY, THEY KNOW THEY'RE HATED AND MISTRUSTED IN ISRAEL HATED AND MISTRUSTED IN ISRAEL AND TRYING TO TAMP IT DOWN A AND TRYING TO TAMP IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT.
LITTLE BIT.
BUT YOU WATCH IT TODAY AND BUT YOU WATCH IT TODAY AND THERE'S SORT OF RESIGNATION ON THERE'S SORT OF RESIGNATION ON THE FACE OF THE PRESIDENT.
THE FACE OF THE PRESIDENT.
HE WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW SOME HE WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW SOME OF THESE CONFLICTS HAVE GONE ON OF THESE CONFLICTS HAVE GONE ON FOR DECADES.
FOR DECADES.
WE THE U.S. CAN'T SOLVE THEM WE THE U.S. CAN'T SOLVE THEM AND TALKED ABOUT NORTHERN AND TALKED ABOUT NORTHERN IRELAND.
IRELAND.
YOU DON'T HEAR FROM THEM A YOU DON'T HEAR FROM THEM A SENSE THAT THERE'S MOMENTUM AND SENSE THAT THERE'S MOMENTUM AND THERE'S SOME GRAND PLAN.
THERE'S SOME GRAND PLAN.
YOU HEAR A SENSE WE TRIED AND YOU HEAR A SENSE WE TRIED AND FAILED.
FAILED.
GWEN: SO WHAT IS THE STATUS IF GWEN: SO WHAT IS THE STATUS IF THERE IS A STATUS OF ANY EFFORT THERE IS A STATUS OF ANY EFFORT FOR A CEASE-FIRE?
FOR A CEASE-FIRE?
THE ASSUMPTION THAT NOTHING CAN THE ASSUMPTION THAT NOTHING CAN HAPPEN UNLESS PEOPLE STOP HAPPEN UNLESS PEOPLE STOP SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER.
SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER.
BUT I DON'T SEE A WAY TO DO BUT I DON'T SEE A WAY TO DO THAT.
THAT.
>> IT'S REALLY INTERESTING.
>> IT'S REALLY INTERESTING.
WHEN THE EGYPTIANS DURING WHEN THE EGYPTIANS DURING PRESIDENT MORSI IN 2012 PRESIDENT MORSI IN 2012 NEGOTIATED THE CEASE-FIRE THEY NEGOTIATED THE CEASE-FIRE THEY SAID WE'LL GUARANTEE THE SAID WE'LL GUARANTEE THE CEASE-FIRE.
CEASE-FIRE.
WE'LL MAKE SURE -- NOW, THEY'RE WE'LL MAKE SURE -- NOW, THEY'RE SAYING LISTEN, YOUR PARTIES SAYING LISTEN, YOUR PARTIES NEED TO GUARANTEE THE NEED TO GUARANTEE THE CEASE-FIRE.
CEASE-FIRE.
WE NEED YOU TO COME AND TAKE A WE NEED YOU TO COME AND TAKE A COMMITMENT AND BE RESPONSIBLE COMMITMENT AND BE RESPONSIBLE FOR A BETTER FUTURE FOR YOUR FOR A BETTER FUTURE FOR YOUR PEOPLE.
PEOPLE.
SO EGYPTIAN OFFICIALS I TALKED SO EGYPTIAN OFFICIALS I TALKED TO TODAY SAID LISTEN, WE'RE NOT TO TODAY SAID LISTEN, WE'RE NOT DISINVITING THEM BUT WE'RE NOT DISINVITING THEM BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO SIT DOWN AND TALK TO GOING TO SIT DOWN AND TALK TO THEM UNTIL THEY'RE READY TO THEM UNTIL THEY'RE READY TO STOP FIGHTING.
STOP FIGHTING.
OBVIOUSLY THE HOPE IS IF YOU OBVIOUSLY THE HOPE IS IF YOU CAN EVEN GET LIKE A 12-HOUR CAN EVEN GET LIKE A 12-HOUR CEASE-FIRE OR A FOUR-HOUR CEASE-FIRE OR A FOUR-HOUR CEASE-FIRE, START GETTING THE CEASE-FIRE, START GETTING THE PARTIES TOGETHER AND THAT COULD PARTIES TOGETHER AND THAT COULD BE EXTENDED.
BE EXTENDED.
BUT I DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING BUT I DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING WHILE THE ISRAELI SOLDIER HAS WHILE THE ISRAELI SOLDIER HAS BEEN CAPTURED, IS NOT FREED, BEEN CAPTURED, IS NOT FREED, WHICH THE ISRAELIS SAY THAT WHICH THE ISRAELIS SAY THAT THEY HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF THEY HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF WINNING THE LOTTERY THAN WINNING THE LOTTERY THAN GETTING THIS SOLDIER FREED.
GETTING THIS SOLDIER FREED.
SO THEY'RE REALLY DIGGING THEIR SO THEY'RE REALLY DIGGING THEIR HEELS IN FOR THE LONG TERM AND HEELS IN FOR THE LONG TERM AND I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT MORE HEAVY HANDED LOT MORE HEAVY HANDED OPERATIONS BY THE ISRAELIS.
OPERATIONS BY THE ISRAELIS.
AND UNFORTUNATELY A LOT MORE AND UNFORTUNATELY A LOT MORE CASUALTIES.
CASUALTIES.
GWEN: LET'S GO TO ANOTHER GWEN: LET'S GO TO ANOTHER INTRACTABLE PROBLEM AS LONG AS INTRACTABLE PROBLEM AS LONG AS WE'RE STUCK THERE AND THAT'S IN WE'RE STUCK THERE AND THAT'S IN UKRAINE.
UKRAINE.
THIS WEEK, WE AND THE EUROPEANS THIS WEEK, WE AND THE EUROPEANS ONCE AGAIN STEPPED UP ONCE AGAIN STEPPED UP SANCTIONS.
SANCTIONS.
THE IDEA THAT YOU PUNISH THE IDEA THAT YOU PUNISH RUSSIA, THEY WILL STOP MASSING RUSSIA, THEY WILL STOP MASSING THOSE 12,000 TROOPS ON THE THOSE 12,000 TROOPS ON THE BORDER.
BORDER.
I DON'T SEE ANY SIGN OF THAT.
I DON'T SEE ANY SIGN OF THAT.
>> NO.
>> NO.
NONE.
NONE.
ELISE AND I BOTH THIS PAST ELISE AND I BOTH THIS PAST WEEKEND AT A SECURITY WEEKEND AT A SECURITY CONFERENCE IN ASPEN.
CONFERENCE IN ASPEN.
A TOUCH PART OF THE JOB A TOUCH PART OF THE JOB ADMITTEDLY.
ADMITTEDLY.
AND ONE OF THE POINTS MADE AND ONE OF THE POINTS MADE THERE BY A SENIOR U.S. GENERAL THERE BY A SENIOR U.S. GENERAL WAS RUSSIA, BEFORE THE NORMANDY WAS RUSSIA, BEFORE THE NORMANDY CELEBRATION, TRYING TO GET CELEBRATION, TRYING TO GET GOODWILL, HAD 28,000 TROOPS AT GOODWILL, HAD 28,000 TROOPS AT THE BORDER, SO WE'RE DONE.
THE BORDER, SO WE'RE DONE.
WE'RE FRIENDS.
WE'RE FRIENDS.
AND SINCE THEN PUT BACK AT AND SINCE THEN PUT BACK AT LEAST 14,000 AND THAT NUMBER IS LEAST 14,000 AND THAT NUMBER IS RISING.
RISING.
THERE IS A REAL FEAR THAT HE THERE IS A REAL FEAR THAT HE MIGHT NOW INTERVENE.
MIGHT NOW INTERVENE.
MULL TAKERLY IN A WAY THAT HE MULL TAKERLY IN A WAY THAT HE -- MILITARILY IN A WAY THAT HE -- MILITARILY IN A WAY THAT HE -- PUTIN, EXCUSE ME, THAT THE -- PUTIN, EXCUSE ME, THAT THE WEST HAS PUSHED HIM AND HE DOES WEST HAS PUSHED HIM AND HE DOES NOT LIKE BEING PUT INTO A NOT LIKE BEING PUT INTO A CORNER AND HE DOESN'T LIKE CORNER AND HE DOESN'T LIKE FEELING LIKE HE'S BEEN PUT INTO FEELING LIKE HE'S BEEN PUT INTO A BOX.
A BOX.
PRO-RUSSIAN SEPARATISTS WILL PRO-RUSSIAN SEPARATISTS WILL SAY TO HIM, WE NEED HELP.
SAY TO HIM, WE NEED HELP.
AND THERE'S A PALPABLE SENSE AND THERE'S A PALPABLE SENSE THAT YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY SEE THAT YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY SEE RUSSIAN TROOPS OPENLY, OPENLY RUSSIAN TROOPS OPENLY, OPENLY IN UKRAINE.
IN UKRAINE.
NOT SNEAKING IN, OPENLY NOT SNEAKING IN, OPENLY OPERATING IN UKRAINIAN OPERATING IN UKRAINIAN TERRITORY.
TERRITORY.
>> AND THERE WAS A CONCERN THAT >> AND THERE WAS A CONCERN THAT ORIGINALLY MAYBE HE WAS KIND OF ORIGINALLY MAYBE HE WAS KIND OF ON ONE HAND TRYING TO PLAY WITH ON ONE HAND TRYING TO PLAY WITH THE WEST.
THE WEST.
TRYING TO SEEM CONCILIATORY AND TRYING TO SEEM CONCILIATORY AND WILLING TO TALK.
WILLING TO TALK.
TO AVOID SOME OF THE SANCTIONS.
TO AVOID SOME OF THE SANCTIONS.
NOW THERE'S JUST A REAL FEELING NOW THERE'S JUST A REAL FEELING THAT HE'S DIGGING IN.
THAT HE'S DIGGING IN.
HIS POPULARITY AT HOME IS SO HIS POPULARITY AT HOME IS SO HIGH OVER THERE.
HIGH OVER THERE.
CAN'T SAVE -- NEEDS TO SAVE CAN'T SAVE -- NEEDS TO SAVE FACE WITH THE RUSSIAN PUBLIC.
FACE WITH THE RUSSIAN PUBLIC.
AND IS AFRAID OF HOW THE AND IS AFRAID OF HOW THE OPPOSITION MIGHT PLAY THIS AT OPPOSITION MIGHT PLAY THIS AT HOME.
HOME.
IF HE DOES BACK DOWN.
IF HE DOES BACK DOWN.
>> AS YOU SAY, HE'S SO POPULAR.
>> AS YOU SAY, HE'S SO POPULAR.
IT ALMOST SEEMS AS IF EVEN IF IT ALMOST SEEMS AS IF EVEN IF HE WANTED TO BACK DOWN, HE HE WANTED TO BACK DOWN, HE COULDN'T.
COULDN'T.
IS THERE ANY WAY FOR HIM TO IS THERE ANY WAY FOR HIM TO EXTRACT HIMSELF FROM THIS EXTRACT HIMSELF FROM THIS CONFLICT THAT HAS ISOLATED HIM?
CONFLICT THAT HAS ISOLATED HIM?
GWEN: AND WHEN THE PRESIDENT GWEN: AND WHEN THE PRESIDENT CALLS HIM AS HE DID TODAY, CALLS HIM AS HE DID TODAY, WHAT'S THE POINT?
WHAT'S THE POINT?
>> WELL, THE PRESIDENT IS JUST >> WELL, THE PRESIDENT IS JUST ONCE AGAIN -- I THINK JUST ONCE AGAIN -- I THINK JUST TRYING TO KEEP THAT DIPLOMATIC TRYING TO KEEP THAT DIPLOMATIC CHANNEL OPEN.
CHANNEL OPEN.
HE KNOWS THAT NOTHING THAT THE HE KNOWS THAT NOTHING THAT THE PRESIDENT IS GOING TO SAY IS PRESIDENT IS GOING TO SAY IS GOING TO REALLY CHANGE HIS GOING TO REALLY CHANGE HIS MIND.
MIND.
BUT I THINK WHAT -- AND AGAIN, BUT I THINK WHAT -- AND AGAIN, WE HEARD THIS AT THE -- A LOT WE HEARD THIS AT THE -- A LOT OF HIGH-LEVEL GENERALS AND OF HIGH-LEVEL GENERALS AND STUFF AT THIS CONFERENCE IN STUFF AT THIS CONFERENCE IN ASPEN.
ASPEN.
AND GENERAL DEMPSEY, THE AND GENERAL DEMPSEY, THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF WAS SAYING MY BIG CONCERN STAFF WAS SAYING MY BIG CONCERN IS THAT HE'S GOING TO LIGHT A IS THAT HE'S GOING TO LIGHT A FIRE THAT HE CAN'T CONTROL.
FIRE THAT HE CAN'T CONTROL.
THERE'S SO MUCH FERVENT THERE'S SO MUCH FERVENT NATIONALISM AMONG THESE NATIONALISM AMONG THESE PRO-UKRAINIAN -- PRO-RUSSIAN PRO-UKRAINIAN -- PRO-RUSSIAN AND UKRAINIAN SEPARATISTS.
AND UKRAINIAN SEPARATISTS.
RUSSIAN NATIONALISTS THAT MAYBE RUSSIAN NATIONALISTS THAT MAYBE HE'S GOING TO GO TOO FAR THAT HE'S GOING TO GO TOO FAR THAT HE CAN'T STOP.
HE CAN'T STOP.
AND HE'S GOING TO SEE A AND HE'S GOING TO SEE A SITUATION WHERE HE CAN'T WALK SITUATION WHERE HE CAN'T WALK BACK EVEN IF HE WANTED TO.
BACK EVEN IF HE WANTED TO.
AND THAT COULD SPREAD TO OTHER AND THAT COULD SPREAD TO OTHER AREAS OF EUROPE.
AREAS OF EUROPE.
I DON'T THINK ANYONE THINKS I DON'T THINK ANYONE THINKS THAT HE WILL GO INTO A NATO THAT HE WILL GO INTO A NATO COUNTRY BUT THERE IS A LOT OF COUNTRY BUT THERE IS A LOT OF CONCERN WITHIN NATO MEMBERS CONCERN WITHIN NATO MEMBERS THAT PERHAPS HE'S GOING TO THAT PERHAPS HE'S GOING TO START SOMETHING HE CAN'T START SOMETHING HE CAN'T FINISH.
FINISH.
>> WE HEARD FROM THE PRESIDENT >> WE HEARD FROM THE PRESIDENT TODAY THAT HE'S -- HE SEEMS TODAY THAT HE'S -- HE SEEMS LIKE HE'S EXHAUSTED HIS OPTIONS LIKE HE'S EXHAUSTED HIS OPTIONS WITH THE SANCTIONS.
WITH THE SANCTIONS.
AND HE SAYS AMERICA IN SOME AND HE SAYS AMERICA IN SOME WAYS DONE A LOT.
WAYS DONE A LOT.
ONE IS THAT TRUE?
ONE IS THAT TRUE?
AND IS THERE ANYONE WHO'S AND IS THERE ANYONE WHO'S OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES IN OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES IN EUROPE WHO IS TAKING PERHAPS A EUROPE WHO IS TAKING PERHAPS A MORE CONFRONTATIONAL APPROACH MORE CONFRONTATIONAL APPROACH TO VLADIMIR PUTIN?
TO VLADIMIR PUTIN?
>> NO.
>> NO.
AND NO.
AND NO.
UNFORTUNATELY.
UNFORTUNATELY.
THE SANCTIONS THAT WERE THE SANCTIONS THAT WERE ANNOUNCED THEY WERE MORE THAN ANNOUNCED THEY WERE MORE THAN HAD BEEN BEFORE.
HAD BEEN BEFORE.
BUT THEY HAVE GIANT LOOPHOLES.
BUT THEY HAVE GIANT LOOPHOLES.
AND THAT'S BY DESIGN.
AND THAT'S BY DESIGN.
SO ONE OF THEM SAID YOU CAN'T SO ONE OF THEM SAID YOU CAN'T SELL WEAPONRY TO RUSSIA.
SELL WEAPONRY TO RUSSIA.
WHAT THAT MEANS IS NEW WHAT THAT MEANS IS NEW WEAPONRY.
WEAPONRY.
IF YOU HAVE DEALS IN PLACE YOU IF YOU HAVE DEALS IN PLACE YOU CAN AND FRANCE IS A MULTI CAN AND FRANCE IS A MULTI BILLION DOLLAR DEAL TO SELL WAR BILLION DOLLAR DEAL TO SELL WAR SHIPS TO RUSSIA AND WILL GO SHIPS TO RUSSIA AND WILL GO THROUGH WITH THAT DEAL AND THROUGH WITH THAT DEAL AND EUROPE SAID WE WILL NOT BUY EUROPE SAID WE WILL NOT BUY ENERGY FROM RUSSIA AND CHINA ENERGY FROM RUSSIA AND CHINA WILL, SIGNED A 30-YEAR DEAL WILL, SIGNED A 30-YEAR DEAL WITH RUSSIA A MONTH AGO.
WITH RUSSIA A MONTH AGO.
SO ESCALATING BUT IF YOU'RE SO ESCALATING BUT IF YOU'RE PUTIN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS PUTIN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS AND SAYING THIS IS ALL YOU CAN AND SAYING THIS IS ALL YOU CAN DO?
DO?
THERE IS THIS FASCINATING THERE IS THIS FASCINATING MOMENT JUST BRIEFLY ON TWITTER, MOMENT JUST BRIEFLY ON TWITTER, THE DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER OF THE DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER OF RUSSIA TWEETED OUT THIS PHOTO RUSSIA TWEETED OUT THIS PHOTO YESTERDAY OF VLADIMIR PUTIN YESTERDAY OF VLADIMIR PUTIN STROKING A LEOPARD.
STROKING A LEOPARD.
AND BARACK OBAMA STROKING A AND BARACK OBAMA STROKING A POODLE.
POODLE.
AND IN ENGLISH, THE TEXT OF IT AND IN ENGLISH, THE TEXT OF IT WAS WE HAVE DIFFERENT VALUES.
WAS WE HAVE DIFFERENT VALUES.
THIS OF COURSE WENT VIRAL.
THIS OF COURSE WENT VIRAL.
BUT THIS IS THE -- BUT THIS IS THE -- GWEN: POODLE VERSUS LEOPARD?
GWEN: POODLE VERSUS LEOPARD?
>> OR MAYBE HE THINKS PRESIDENT >> OR MAYBE HE THINKS PRESIDENT OBAMA IS A POODLE AND PUTIN IS OBAMA IS A POODLE AND PUTIN IS A LEOPARD HERE?
A LEOPARD HERE?
GWEN: BUT IS THERE ANY -- GWEN: BUT IS THERE ANY -- BRIEFLY, IS THERE ANY CONSENSUS BRIEFLY, IS THERE ANY CONSENSUS AMONG OTHER NATIONS THAT PUTIN AMONG OTHER NATIONS THAT PUTIN IS RIGHT?
IS RIGHT?
>> WELL, LISTEN.
>> WELL, LISTEN.
HE'S PART OF THIS BRICS HE'S PART OF THIS BRICS COUNTRY.
COUNTRY.
BRAZIL, RUSSIA, CHINA AND ANY BRAZIL, RUSSIA, CHINA AND ANY OF THESE INDUSTRIALIZED NATIONS OF THESE INDUSTRIALIZED NATIONS AND YOU HAVE THE G-20 NATIONS.
AND YOU HAVE THE G-20 NATIONS.
A LOT OF THEM ARE VERY A LOT OF THEM ARE VERY COGNIZANT OF THE FACT THAT THIS COGNIZANT OF THE FACT THAT THIS IS A COUNTRY THAT'S POKE BEING IS A COUNTRY THAT'S POKE BEING ITS EYE AT THE WEST AND THE ITS EYE AT THE WEST AND THE WHOLE WESTERN ORDER AND WHILE WHOLE WESTERN ORDER AND WHILE CERTAINLY IN EUROPE, AND UNITED CERTAINLY IN EUROPE, AND UNITED STATES, HE HAS A LOT OF STATES, HE HAS A LOT OF PROBLEMS, THERE ARE A LOT OF PROBLEMS, THERE ARE A LOT OF COUNTRIES WHERE HE DOES HAVE COUNTRIES WHERE HE DOES HAVE SUPPORT.
SUPPORT.
GWEN: OK. GWEN: OK. WE'RE GOING TO BE WATCHING THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE WATCHING THAT BECAUSE THAT MAY BE WHERE THE BECAUSE THAT MAY BE WHERE THE WORM TURNS NEXT.
WORM TURNS NEXT.
THANK YOU, ALL, SO MUCH.
THANK YOU, ALL, SO MUCH.
ANOTHER EVENTFUL WEEK.
ANOTHER EVENTFUL WEEK.
WE HAVE TO GO FOR NOW.
WE HAVE TO GO FOR NOW.
BUT AS ALWAYS, THE CONVERSATION BUT AS ALWAYS, THE CONVERSATION WILL CONTINUE ONLINE.
WILL CONTINUE ONLINE.
THE "WASHINGTON WEEK" WEBCAST THE "WASHINGTON WEEK" WEBCAST EXTRA STREAMS LIVE AT 8:30 P.M.
EXTRA STREAMS LIVE AT 8:30 P.M. EASTERN AND YOU CAN FIND IT ALL EASTERN AND YOU CAN FIND IT ALL WEEK LONG AT WEEK LONG AT PBS.ORG/WASHINGTONWEEK WHERE PBS.ORG/WASHINGTONWEEK WHERE AMONG OR THINGS WE'LL TALK AMONG OR THINGS WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S ADMISSION ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S ADMISSION TODAY THAT THE U.S.
TORTURED TODAY THAT THE U.S.
TORTURED PEOPLE OR TORTURED FOLKS AS HE PEOPLE OR TORTURED FOLKS AS HE SAID AFTER 9-11.
SAID AFTER 9-11.
KEEP UP WITH DAILY DEVELOPMENTS KEEP UP WITH DAILY DEVELOPMENTS WITH ME AND JUDY WOODRUFF ON WITH ME AND JUDY WOODRUFF ON "THE PBS NEWSHOUR" AND WE'LL "THE PBS NEWSHOUR" AND WE'LL SEYOU E HERE NEXT WEEK ON SEYOU E HERE NEXT WEEK ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."
"WASHINGTON WEEK."
GOOD NIGHT.
