GWEN: IRAQ FLASHBACK.
A CRUMBLING NATION LOOKS TO THE A CRUMBLING NATION LOOKS TO THE U.S. FOR HELP.
U.S. FOR HELP.
POLITICAL EARTHQUAKE.
POLITICAL EARTHQUAKE.
HOW ERIC CANTOR'S DEFEAT IS HOW ERIC CANTOR'S DEFEAT IS RATTLING THE G.O.P.
RATTLING THE G.O.P.
AND WAS IT WORTH IT?
AND WAS IT WORTH IT?
THE CONTINUING SAGA OF BOWE THE CONTINUING SAGA OF BOWE BERGDAHL.
BERGDAHL.
TONIGHT ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."
TONIGHT ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."
MAJOR CITIES FALL.
MAJOR CITIES FALL.
AS IRAQ FRACTURES ONCE AGAIN.
AS IRAQ FRACTURES ONCE AGAIN.
>> THE UNITED STATES IS NOT >> THE UNITED STATES IS NOT SIMPLY GOING TO INVOLVE ITSELF SIMPLY GOING TO INVOLVE ITSELF IN A MILITARY ACTION IN THE IN A MILITARY ACTION IN THE ABSENCE OF A POLITICAL PLAN BY ABSENCE OF A POLITICAL PLAN BY THE IRAQIS.
THE IRAQIS.
THAT GIVES US SOME ASSURANCE THAT GIVES US SOME ASSURANCE THAT THEY'RE PREPARED TO WORK THAT THEY'RE PREPARED TO WORK TOGETHER.
TOGETHER.
>> THE UNITED STATES HAS AND >> THE UNITED STATES HAS AND WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE VITAL WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE VITAL NATIONALNTER IEST IN IRAQ.
NATIONALNTER IEST IN IRAQ.
THE PROGRESS MADE THERE IS THE PROGRESS MADE THERE IS CLEARLY IN JEOPARDY.
CLEARLY IN JEOPARDY.
GWEN: BUT WHAT WILL WHAT CAN GWEN: BUT WHAT WILL WHAT CAN THE U.S. DO?
THE U.S. DO?
BACK HOME A SURPRISE DEFEAT BACK HOME A SURPRISE DEFEAT SHAKES UP THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
SHAKES UP THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
>> OBVIOUSLY WE CAME UP SHORT.
>> OBVIOUSLY WE CAME UP SHORT.
GWEN: AS ERIC CANTOR BECOMES GWEN: AS ERIC CANTOR BECOMES THE FIRST HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER THE FIRST HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER EVER TO GO DOWN TO PRIMARY EVER TO GO DOWN TO PRIMARY DEFEAT.
DEFEAT.
>> I'M JUST HUMBLED THAT THE >> I'M JUST HUMBLED THAT THE PEOPLE SPOKE.
PEOPLE SPOKE.
AND I THINK THEY WANT A NEW AND I THINK THEY WANT A NEW DIRECTION IN WASHINGTON, D.C.
DIRECTION IN WASHINGTON, D.C. GWEN: DEMOCRATS WERE SMUG.
GWEN: DEMOCRATS WERE SMUG.
>> THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN.
>> THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN.
GWEN: REPUBLICANS WERE GWEN: REPUBLICANS WERE SCRAMBLING.
SCRAMBLING.
>> THE MESSAGE IS THIS.
>> THE MESSAGE IS THIS.
WE WERE ELECTED BY AMERICAN WE WERE ELECTED BY AMERICAN CITIZENS.
CITIZENS.
AND WE BETTER REPRESENT THE AND WE BETTER REPRESENT THE INTERESTS OF AMERICAN CITIZENS.
INTERESTS OF AMERICAN CITIZENS.
GWEN: WHAT NEXT?
GWEN: WHAT NEXT?
AND BOWE BERGDAHL RETURNS HOME.
AND BOWE BERGDAHL RETURNS HOME.
BUT AT WHAT COST?
BUT AT WHAT COST?
>> ANY OF THESE DETAINEES EVER >> ANY OF THESE DETAINEES EVER TRY TO REJOIN THE FIGHT?
TRY TO REJOIN THE FIGHT?
THEY WOULD BE DOING SO AT THEIR THEY WOULD BE DOING SO AT THEIR OWN PERIL.
OWN PERIL.
GWEN: THE DEBATE IS JUST GWEN: THE DEBATE IS JUST BEGINNING.
BEGINNING.
COVERING THE WEEK, NANCY COVERING THE WEEK, NANCY YOUSSEF OF MCLATCHEY YOUSSEF OF MCLATCHEY NEWSPAPERS.
NEWSPAPERS.
ROBERT COSTA OF "THE WASHINGTON ROBERT COSTA OF "THE WASHINGTON POST."
POST."
JOHN HARWOOD OF CNBC.
JOHN HARWOOD OF CNBC.
AND "THE NEW YORK TIMES."
AND "THE NEW YORK TIMES."
AND MARK MAZZETTI OF "THE NEW AND MARK MAZZETTI OF "THE NEW YORK TIMES."
YORK TIMES."
>> AWARD-WINNING REPORTING AND >> AWARD-WINNING REPORTING AND NALYSIS COVERING HISTORY AS IT NALYSIS COVERING HISTORY AS IT HAPPENS, LIVE FROM OUR NATION'S HAPPENS, LIVE FROM OUR NATION'S CAPITAL, THIS IS "WASHINGTON CAPITAL, THIS IS "WASHINGTON WEEK WITH GWEN IFILL."
ONCE AGAIN, LIVE FROM WASHINGTON, MODERATOR GWEN WASHINGTON, MODERATOR GWEN IFILL.
IFILL.
GWEN: GOOD EVENING.
GWEN: GOOD EVENING.
THE CITY NAMES ARE FAMILIAR.
THE CITY NAMES ARE FAMILIAR.
MOSUL.
MOSUL.
TIKRIT.
TIKRIT.
IRBIL.
IRBIL.
BUT AS INSURGENTS OVERRAN THOSE BUT AS INSURGENTS OVERRAN THOSE CITIES, AND ADVANCE TOWARD CITIES, AND ADVANCE TOWARD BAGHDAD THE ALARM WAS SUDEN AND BAGHDAD THE ALARM WAS SUDEN AND REAL.
REAL.
WAS THE U.S.
GOING TO BE DRAWN WAS THE U.S.
GOING TO BE DRAWN INTO A THIRD IRAQ WAR?
INTO A THIRD IRAQ WAR?
AND REMARKS DIRECTED TODAY AT AND REMARKS DIRECTED TODAY AT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, BUT ALSO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, BUT ALSO AT THE IRAQI PRIME MINISTER, AT THE IRAQI PRIME MINISTER, PRESIDENT OBAMA SAID NO.
PRESIDENT OBAMA SAID NO.
>> WE'RE NOT GOING TO ALLOW >> WE'RE NOT GOING TO ALLOW OURSELVES TO BE DRAGGED BACK OURSELVES TO BE DRAGGED BACK INTO A SITUATION IN WHICH -- INTO A SITUATION IN WHICH -- WHILE WE'RE THERE, WE'RE WHILE WE'RE THERE, WE'RE KEEPING A LID ON THINGS.
KEEPING A LID ON THINGS.
AND AFTER ENORMOUS SACRIFICES AND AFTER ENORMOUS SACRIFICES BY US, AS SOON AS WE'RE NOT BY US, AS SOON AS WE'RE NOT THERE, SUDDENLY PEOPLE END UP THERE, SUDDENLY PEOPLE END UP ACTING IN WAYS THAT ARE NOT ACTING IN WAYS THAT ARE NOT CONDUCIVE TO THE LONG-TERM CONDUCIVE TO THE LONG-TERM STABILITY AND PROSPERITY OF THE STABILITY AND PROSPERITY OF THE COUNTRY.
COUNTRY.
GWEN: NANCY, THE PENTAGON GWEN: NANCY, THE PENTAGON SPOKESMAN SAID TODAY THAT SPOKESMAN SAID TODAY THAT AMERICANS HAD SACRIFICED BLOOD AMERICANS HAD SACRIFICED BLOOD AND TREASURE IN IRAQ.
AND TREASURE IN IRAQ.
BUT MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE SEEN BUT MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE SEEN THIS COMING?
THIS COMING?
>> YES.
>> YES.
FRANKLY.
FRANKLY.
IN THE SENSE THAT ISIS, WHICH IN THE SENSE THAT ISIS, WHICH CALLED FOR AN ISLAMIC STATE IN CALLED FOR AN ISLAMIC STATE IN IRAQ AND SYRIA HAD BEEN IRAQ AND SYRIA HAD BEEN CHARGING FOR WEEKS NOW, AND CHARGING FOR WEEKS NOW, AND SYRIA AND HAD THREATENED TO SYRIA AND HAD THREATENED TO MOVE INTO MOSUL AND THE WESTERN MOVE INTO MOSUL AND THE WESTERN PART OF IRAQ WHICH IS SUNNI PART OF IRAQ WHICH IS SUNNI DOMINATED.
DOMINATED.
AND SO WHAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK AND SO WHAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK WAS A SERIES OF BREATHTAKING WAS A SERIES OF BREATHTAKING MOVES BY THEM.
MOVES BY THEM.
IN THE SPAN OF FIVE DAYS.
IN THE SPAN OF FIVE DAYS.
THEY TOOK OVER THE SECOND THEY TOOK OVER THE SECOND LARGEST CITY IN IRAQ.
LARGEST CITY IN IRAQ.
A CITY THE SIZE OF A CITY THE SIZE OF PHILADELPHIA.
PHILADELPHIA.
THEY MOVED INTO TIKRIT.
THEY MOVED INTO TIKRIT.
ADAM HUSSEIN'S HOMETOWN.
ADAM HUSSEIN'S HOMETOWN.
-- SAD AM HUSSEIN'S HOMETOWN.
-- SAD AM HUSSEIN'S HOMETOWN.
AND ABLE TO TAKE OIL-RICH AND ABLE TO TAKE OIL-RICH KIRKUK FOR THEIR INDEPENDENCE KIRKUK FOR THEIR INDEPENDENCE AND ALL OF THESE MOVES AND ALL OF THESE MOVES SUGGESTED THAT IRAQ MIGHT NOT SUGGESTED THAT IRAQ MIGHT NOT BE THE STATE THAT WE KNOW IT.
BE THE STATE THAT WE KNOW IT.
AND EVENTS ARE MOVING SO AND EVENTS ARE MOVING SO QUICKLY THAT THE IRAQ WE SEE QUICKLY THAT THE IRAQ WE SEE TODAY MIGHT NOT BE THERE NEXT TODAY MIGHT NOT BE THERE NEXT WEEK.
WEEK.
GWEN: SO THE QUICKNESS THAT GWEN: SO THE QUICKNESS THAT EVERYONE IS SURPRISED AT.
EVERYONE IS SURPRISED AT.
AS MUCH AS THE FACT OF IT.
AS MUCH AS THE FACT OF IT.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
AND IN ADDITION TO THE SPEED AT AND IN ADDITION TO THE SPEED AT WHICH THEY MOVED, THE IRAQI WHICH THEY MOVED, THE IRAQI SECURITY FORCES DIDN'T FIGHT AT SECURITY FORCES DIDN'T FIGHT AT ALL.
ALL.
WHEN ISIS HAD TAKEN FALLUJAHA WHEN ISIS HAD TAKEN FALLUJAHA WHICH WE KNOW IN THIS COUNTRY WHICH WE KNOW IN THIS COUNTRY VERY WELL THERE WAS A FIGHT FOR VERY WELL THERE WAS A FIGHT FOR THAT CITY AND HERE IN MOSUL THAT CITY AND HERE IN MOSUL WHICH HAS OIL, WHICH IS SPLIT WHICH HAS OIL, WHICH IS SPLIT SUNNI AND KURDISH, THERE WASN'T SUNNI AND KURDISH, THERE WASN'T A FIGHT AT ALL.
A FIGHT AT ALL.
NOT ONLY DID THE IRAQI SECURITY NOT ONLY DID THE IRAQI SECURITY FORCES NOT FIGHT, THEY RAN AND FORCES NOT FIGHT, THEY RAN AND ISIS FORCES WERE ABLE TO TAKE ISIS FORCES WERE ABLE TO TAKE U.S.-SUPPLIED WEAPONS.
U.S.-SUPPLIED WEAPONS.
WE SAW THEM DRIVING WITH WE SAW THEM DRIVING WITH HUMVEES, WITH THE ISIS FLAG HUMVEES, WITH THE ISIS FLAG FLYING OVER THEM.
FLYING OVER THEM.
SO THEY'RE NAR SO THEY'RE NAR BAGHDAD.
BAGHDAD.
WE'RE SEEING NOURI AL-MALIKI WE'RE SEEING NOURI AL-MALIKI THE PRIME MINISTER CALL UP THE PRIME MINISTER CALL UP IRANIAN SUPPORT AND HELP.
IRANIAN SUPPORT AND HELP.
WE'RE SEEING SHIA LEADERS TELL WE'RE SEEING SHIA LEADERS TELL THEIR CITIZENS AND SECT TO ARM THEIR CITIZENS AND SECT TO ARM THEMSELVES.
THEMSELVES.
AND PRESIDENT OBAMA ESSENTIALLY AND PRESIDENT OBAMA ESSENTIALLY HIS CONDITIONS FOR THE U.S. TO HIS CONDITIONS FOR THE U.S. TO INTERVENE ALBEIT LIMITED IN INTERVENE ALBEIT LIMITED IN IRAQ.
IRAQ.
AND WHAT HE SAID WAS THERE HAD AND WHAT HE SAID WAS THERE HAD TO BE SOME SORT OF NATIONAL TO BE SOME SORT OF NATIONAL RECONCILIATION.
RECONCILIATION.
IT HASN'T HAPPENED IN YEARS.
IT HASN'T HAPPENED IN YEARS.
SO IT'S HARD TO SEE A MAIRIO SO IT'S HARD TO SEE A MAIRIO WHERE THESE VERY DIVIDED GROUPS WHERE THESE VERY DIVIDED GROUPS WITH SO MUCH AT STAKE ARE GOING WITH SO MUCH AT STAKE ARE GOING TO BE WILLING TO SIT AT A TABLE TO BE WILLING TO SIT AT A TABLE AND NEGOTIATE FOR THE SAKE OF A AND NEGOTIATE FOR THE SAKE OF A NOW FRACTURED IRAQ.
NOW FRACTURED IRAQ.
>> DOES THAT MEAN THAT WE'RE >> DOES THAT MEAN THAT WE'RE HEADED FOR THE VERY THING THAT HEADED FOR THE VERY THING THAT JOE BIDEN USED TO ADVOCATE IS JOE BIDEN USED TO ADVOCATE IS IRAQ NEEDS TO BE PARTITIONED?
IRAQ NEEDS TO BE PARTITIONED?
IS THAT WHERE THIS IS IS THAT WHERE THIS IS ULTIMATELY FATED TO END OR A ULTIMATELY FATED TO END OR A WAY WE CAN REVERSE THIS AND WAY WE CAN REVERSE THIS AND KNIT THE COUNTRY BACK TOGETHER?
KNIT THE COUNTRY BACK TOGETHER?
>> THERE'S CERTAINLY THAT >> THERE'S CERTAINLY THAT POTENTIAL.
POTENTIAL.
BECAUSE THE KURDS HAVE KIRKUK.
BECAUSE THE KURDS HAVE KIRKUK.
THEY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST NOW THEY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST NOW IN A DIVISION.
IN A DIVISION.
THE GROUP ISIS IS LOOKING FOR A THE GROUP ISIS IS LOOKING FOR A SUNNI STATE.
SUNNI STATE.
AND THE SHIA ARE TRYING TO AND THE SHIA ARE TRYING TO PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS.
PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS.
SO THERE IS THAT POSSIBILITY.
SO THERE IS THAT POSSIBILITY.
AND AS YOU SAY, BIDEN AT THE AND AS YOU SAY, BIDEN AT THE HEIGHT OF THE IRAQ WAR HEIGHT OF THE IRAQ WAR SUGGESTED THIS AS A SOLUTION.
SUGGESTED THIS AS A SOLUTION.
THERE'S A CASE TO BE MADE THAT THERE'S A CASE TO BE MADE THAT THAT WOULD SOLVE ONE PROBLEM THAT WOULD SOLVE ONE PROBLEM BUT CREATE NEW ONES.
BUT CREATE NEW ONES.
AT THE MINIMUM THE STATE THAT AT THE MINIMUM THE STATE THAT THIS EXTREMIST GROUP IS THIS EXTREMIST GROUP IS PROPOSING WOULD PROPOSE THINGS PROPOSING WOULD PROPOSE THINGS LIKE SUBJUGATING WOMEN, LIKE SUBJUGATING WOMEN, FLOGGING, TAXING CITIZENS.
FLOGGING, TAXING CITIZENS.
WE SAW HALF A MILLION RESIDENTS WE SAW HALF A MILLION RESIDENTS OF MOSUL FLEE WHICH GIVES YOU OF MOSUL FLEE WHICH GIVES YOU SOME SENSE IN TERMS OF THE SOME SENSE IN TERMS OF THE LEVEL OF FEAR THAT IRAQIS HAVE LEVEL OF FEAR THAT IRAQIS HAVE ABOUT THE POTENTIAL OF THE ABOUT THE POTENTIAL OF THE SUNNI STATE LED BY ISIS.
SUNNI STATE LED BY ISIS.
>> NANCY, PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS >> NANCY, PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS TALKED A LOT ABOUT THE IRAQ WAR TALKED A LOT ABOUT THE IRAQ WAR IS THE WAR THAT HE ENDED.
IS THE WAR THAT HE ENDED.
AND THE WAR HE DOESN'T WANT TO AND THE WAR HE DOESN'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN BUT ISIS SEE IT GET INVOLVED IN BUT ISIS SEE IT AS ONE WAR AND SEE THIS ALL AS AS ONE WAR AND SEE THIS ALL AS ONE BIG CONFLICT.
ONE BIG CONFLICT.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
ISIS WAS BORNE OUT OF THE U.S. ISIS WAS BORNE OUT OF THE U.S.
ENGAGEMENT IN IRAQ.
ENGAGEMENT IN IRAQ.
CZAR ERE FOLLOWERS OF CZAR ERE FOLLOWERS OF KAWHI WHO WAS A LEADER OF IRAQ KAWHI WHO WAS A LEADER OF IRAQ AND HIS FOLLOWERS CALL FOR AN AND HIS FOLLOWERS CALL FOR AN SLAMIC -- SEVERAL CAPITALS IN SLAMIC -- SEVERAL CAPITALS IN THEM WHICH IS WHY THEY'RE GOING THEM WHICH IS WHY THEY'RE GOING FOR THESE CITIES AND TRYING TO FOR THESE CITIES AND TRYING TO RE-CREATE THE COLISET AND MORE RE-CREATE THE COLISET AND MORE DANGEROUS THAN WHAT WE WERE DANGEROUS THAN WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IN IRAQ.
TALKING ABOUT IN IRAQ.
BECAUSE THOSE WERE TERROR BECAUSE THOSE WERE TERROR OPERATIONS.
OPERATIONS.
BUT ISIS IS FIGHTING IN A MORE BUT ISIS IS FIGHTING IN A MORE CONVENTIONAL MILITARY WAY.
CONVENTIONAL MILITARY WAY.
THEY'RE NOT JUST USING TERROR THEY'RE NOT JUST USING TERROR TACTICS BUT FIGHTING AS A TACTICS BUT FIGHTING AS A MILITARY.
MILITARY.
THEY HAVE A FLAG.
THEY HAVE A FLAG.
THEY HAVE NOW U.S. EQUIPMENT.
THEY HAVE NOW U.S. EQUIPMENT.
THEY HAVE A MILITARY.
THEY HAVE A MILITARY.
THEY HAVE SHARIA LAW THAT THEY HAVE SHARIA LAW THAT GOVERNS THEM.
GOVERNS THEM.
SO HOWEVER YOU WANT TO DEFINE SO HOWEVER YOU WANT TO DEFINE IT IT'S POTENTIALLY A STATE.
IT IT'S POTENTIALLY A STATE.
MAYBE NOT IN THE CONVENTIONAL MAYBE NOT IN THE CONVENTIONAL SENSE BUT THEY HAVE THE SENSE BUT THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES TO REALLY TAKE OVER A RESOURCES TO REALLY TAKE OVER A HUGE SWATH OF THE MIDDLE EAST.
HUGE SWATH OF THE MIDDLE EAST.
>> IT'S REALLY INTERESTING TO >> IT'S REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE THE CONGRESSIONAL RESPONSE.
SEE THE CONGRESSIONAL RESPONSE.
AND I'M CURIOUS ABOUT HOW THE AND I'M CURIOUS ABOUT HOW THE ADMINISTRATION, KNOWING THE ADMINISTRATION, KNOWING THE DEMOCRATS CONTROL THE SENATE DEMOCRATS CONTROL THE SENATE ARE DEALING WITH HOUSE ARE DEALING WITH HOUSE REPUBLICANS WHO SEEM TO ALMOST REPUBLICANS WHO SEEM TO ALMOST LIKE REPUBLICANS BACK IN 2007.
LIKE REPUBLICANS BACK IN 2007.
DURING THE IRAQ SURGE AND DURING THE IRAQ SURGE AND COMMITTED TO THE REGION AND COMMITTED TO THE REGION AND COMMITTED TO BEING IN IRAQ.
COMMITTED TO BEING IN IRAQ.
HOW DO YOU SEE THIS FROM A HOW DO YOU SEE THIS FROM A POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE PROCEEDING IN CONGRESS BUT ALSO PROCEEDING IN CONGRESS BUT ALSO AHEAD OF THE MID TERMS?
AHEAD OF THE MID TERMS?
>> IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE A >> IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE A LOT OF THE REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE LOT OF THE REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE CALLED FOR INTERVENTION HAVEN'T CALLED FOR INTERVENTION HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO SPECIFY WHAT THAT BEEN ABLE TO SPECIFY WHAT THAT INTERVENTION WOULD LOOK LIKE.
INTERVENTION WOULD LOOK LIKE.
AND WHAT GOALS IT WOULD AND WHAT GOALS IT WOULD ACHIEVE.
ACHIEVE.
AND THE INTERESTING THING IS A AND THE INTERESTING THING IS A LOT OF THEM VOICED THEIR LOT OF THEM VOICED THEIR DISPLEASURE WITH NOURI DISPLEASURE WITH NOURI AL-MALIKI THE PRIME MINISTER AL-MALIKI THE PRIME MINISTER WHOSE SECTARIAN FORM OF WHOSE SECTARIAN FORM OF GOVERNANCE HAS CONTRIBUTED TO GOVERNANCE HAS CONTRIBUTED TO THE RISE OF THESE SUNNI THE RISE OF THESE SUNNI EXTREMIST GROUPS IN IRAQ.
EXTREMIST GROUPS IN IRAQ.
AND SO IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE AND SO IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE WHETHER IT WILL BE A FRACTURE.
WHETHER IT WILL BE A FRACTURE.
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE THING IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE THING THAT WILL DECIDE IT IS WHETHER THAT WILL DECIDE IT IS WHETHER THE PRESIDENT DECIDES TO THE PRESIDENT DECIDES TO INTERVENE IN IRAQ.
INTERVENE IN IRAQ.
AND WHAT FORM.
AND WHAT FORM.
AND WHETHER HE CONTINUES TO AND WHETHER HE CONTINUES TO SUPPORT NOURI AL-MALIKI WHO FOR SUPPORT NOURI AL-MALIKI WHO FOR BOTH PARTIES HAS BEEN AN BOTH PARTIES HAS BEEN AN INEFFECTUAL LEADER.
INEFFECTUAL LEADER.
GWEN: POLITICS, DIPLOMACY, YOU GWEN: POLITICS, DIPLOMACY, YOU NAME IT.
NAME IT.
ALL PART OF THE SAME STORY.
ALL PART OF THE SAME STORY.
WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS WEEK'S POLITICAL EARTHQUAKE WEEK'S POLITICAL EARTHQUAKE HERE IN WASHINGTON.
HERE IN WASHINGTON.
IN WHICH THE HOUSE MAJORITY IN WHICH THE HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER WAS PASTED BY A LITTLE LEADER WAS PASTED BY A LITTLE KNOWN TEA PARTY CANDIDATE IN KNOWN TEA PARTY CANDIDATE IN VIRGINIA.
VIRGINIA.
AND HE -- AND ALREADY GIVEN WAY AND HE -- AND ALREADY GIVEN WAY TO OTHER DRAMAS.
TO OTHER DRAMAS.
WHO WILL SUCCEED ERIC CANTOR AS WHO WILL SUCCEED ERIC CANTOR AS MAJORITY LEADER?
MAJORITY LEADER?
AND THE LEADING CANDIDATE WINS AND THE LEADING CANDIDATE WINS WHO WILL SUCCEED HIM?
WHO WILL SUCCEED HIM?
BUT THE ROOT OF THE THING IS BUT THE ROOT OF THE THING IS HOW DID CANTOR LOSE SO BADLY HOW DID CANTOR LOSE SO BADLY AND IS IT A SIGN OF THINGS TO AND IS IT A SIGN OF THINGS TO COME?
COME?
HOUSE SPEAKER JOHN BOEHNER SAID HOUSE SPEAKER JOHN BOEHNER SAID NO, IT'S REALLY ALL THE NO, IT'S REALLY ALL THE PRESIDENT'S FAULT.
PRESIDENT'S FAULT.
>> I WENT THROUGH A PRIMARY >> I WENT THROUGH A PRIMARY PROCESS ITSELF.
PROCESS ITSELF.
AND YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, THE AND YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE BEING AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE BEING SQUEEZED BY OBAMA'S POLICIES.
SQUEEZED BY OBAMA'S POLICIES.
THERE'S A LOT OF FRUSTRATION THERE'S A LOT OF FRUSTRATION THAT'S OUT THERE.
THAT'S OUT THERE.
AND THEY LOOK TO WASHINGTON AND AND THEY LOOK TO WASHINGTON AND WONDER WHY WE CAN'T -- WE CAN'T WONDER WHY WE CAN'T -- WE CAN'T RESOLVE THESE ISSUES.
RESOLVE THESE ISSUES.
THEY'RE HARD TO RESOLVE WHEN THEY'RE HARD TO RESOLVE WHEN YOU GOT A PRESIDENT WHO WON'T YOU GOT A PRESIDENT WHO WON'T ENGAGE.
ENGAGE.
GWEN: BUT TEA PARTIER AND TEXAS GWEN: BUT TEA PARTIER AND TEXAS SENATOR TED CRUZ SEES MORE TO SENATOR TED CRUZ SEES MORE TO IT.
IT.
>> THE VOTERS OF VIRGINIA HAVE >> THE VOTERS OF VIRGINIA HAVE SPOKEN LOUDLY.
SPOKEN LOUDLY.
AND I THINK THEY HAVE EXPRESSED AND I THINK THEY HAVE EXPRESSED A SENTIMENT THAT IS PRESENT A SENTIMENT THAT IS PRESENT ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
WHICH IS THAT PEOPLE ARE WHICH IS THAT PEOPLE ARE FRUSTRATED.
FRUSTRATED.
THEY'RE FRUSTRATED WITH THEY'RE FRUSTRATED WITH POLITICIANS IN WASHINGTON IN POLITICIANS IN WASHINGTON IN BOTH PARTIES WHO AREN'T BOTH PARTIES WHO AREN'T LISTENING TO THEM.
LISTENING TO THEM.
GWEN: NOTICE HE SAID BOTH GWEN: NOTICE HE SAID BOTH PARTIES.
PARTIES.
SO HOW IS THAT DEBATE PLAYING SO HOW IS THAT DEBATE PLAYING OUT TONIGHT, JOHN?
OUT TONIGHT, JOHN?
>> WELL, LOOK, THE AMERICAN >> WELL, LOOK, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE FRUSTRATED.
PEOPLE ARE FRUSTRATED.
BUT THEY'RE FRUSTRATED IN BUT THEY'RE FRUSTRATED IN DIFFERENT WAYS IN DIFFERENT DIFFERENT WAYS IN DIFFERENT PLACES.
PLACES.
YOU GO TO REPUBLICAN DISTRICTS YOU GO TO REPUBLICAN DISTRICTS AND YOU HEAR MUCH DIFFERENT AND YOU HEAR MUCH DIFFERENT STORIES THAN YOU DO IN STORIES THAN YOU DO IN DEMOCRATIC DISTRICTS.
DEMOCRATIC DISTRICTS.
AND I THINK IT'S HARD TO AND I THINK IT'S HARD TO ISOLATE ONE PARTICULAR FACTOR ISOLATE ONE PARTICULAR FACTOR THAT CAUSED ERIC CANTOR TO GO THAT CAUSED ERIC CANTOR TO GO DOWN.
DOWN.
YOU COULD LOOK AT HIS YOU COULD LOOK AT HIS PERSONALITY.
PERSONALITY.
YOU COULD LOOK AT THE DEMANDS YOU COULD LOOK AT THE DEMANDS OF THE LEADERSHIP THAT TOOK HIM OF THE LEADERSHIP THAT TOOK HIM AWAY FROM THE DISTRICT A LOT.
AWAY FROM THE DISTRICT A LOT.
YOU COULD LOOK AT THE INTENSITY YOU COULD LOOK AT THE INTENSITY OF DISCONTENT AMONG THE OF DISCONTENT AMONG THE REPUBLICAN BASE WHICH EVEN REPUBLICAN BASE WHICH EVEN SOMEBODY LIKE ERIC CANTOR WHO SOMEBODY LIKE ERIC CANTOR WHO WAS VIEWED AT THE WHITE HOUSE WAS VIEWED AT THE WHITE HOUSE AS AUGE HOBSTACLE TO THE AS AUGE HOBSTACLE TO THE PRESIDENT'S AGENDA, EVEN BY PRESIDENT'S AGENDA, EVEN BY DOING SOME OF THE BASIC DOING SOME OF THE BASIC UNCTIONS OF GOVERNMENT AND UNCTIONS OF GOVERNMENT AND COOPERATION WITH THE WHITE COOPERATION WITH THE WHITE HOUSE YOU CAN BE PORTRAYED AS A HOUSE YOU CAN BE PORTRAYED AS A SELLOUT.
SELLOUT.
SO THIS IS UNSETTLING TO EVERY SO THIS IS UNSETTLING TO EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS, IN MEMBER OF CONGRESS, IN PARTICULAR TO REPUBLICANS PARTICULAR TO REPUBLICANS BECAUSE THERE'S A GREATER LEVEL BECAUSE THERE'S A GREATER LEVEL OF IDEOLOGICAL INTENSITY AMONG OF IDEOLOGICAL INTENSITY AMONG THEIR BASE.
THEIR BASE.
AND DEMOCRATS ARE VIEWING THIS AND DEMOCRATS ARE VIEWING THIS SOMEWHAT WEARLY BECAUSE THEIR SOMEWHAT WEARLY BECAUSE THEIR MEMBERS ARE IN TROUBLE AND AN MEMBERS ARE IN TROUBLE AND AN ANTI-INCUMBENT ELECTION THEY'LL ANTI-INCUMBENT ELECTION THEY'LL HAVE A HARD TIME.
HAVE A HARD TIME.
BUT IF THE FORCES OF THE BUT IF THE FORCES OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT OUSTED REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT OUSTED ERIC CANTOR ARE ELEVATED, THAT ERIC CANTOR ARE ELEVATED, THAT IS, THE ONES WHO WANT AN ALL IS, THE ONES WHO WANT AN ALL OUT IN YOUR FACE FIGHT WITH THE OUT IN YOUR FACE FIGHT WITH THE PRESIDENT, THAT MAY BE BETTER PRESIDENT, THAT MAY BE BETTER FOR DEMOCRATS IMPROVE THEIR FOR DEMOCRATS IMPROVE THEIR PROSPECTS OF COMING BACK SOONER PROSPECTS OF COMING BACK SOONER THAN THEY THINK IN THE HOUSE OF THAN THEY THINK IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AS WELL AS REPRESENTATIVES AS WELL AS OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.
OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.
GWEN: ROBERT, YOU SPEND ALL GWEN: ROBERT, YOU SPEND ALL YOUR TIME BASICALLY EMBEDDED ON YOUR TIME BASICALLY EMBEDDED ON CAPITOL HILL.
CAPITOL HILL.
DO THEY SEE IT THAT WAY?
DO THEY SEE IT THAT WAY?
DO THEY SEE IT AS AN DO THEY SEE IT AS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO INCUMBENCY?
INCUMBENCY?
>> THE STUNNING THING ABOUT >> THE STUNNING THING ABOUT THIS IS THE STORY IS NOT JUST THIS IS THE STORY IS NOT JUST ABOUT ERIC CANTOR.
ABOUT ERIC CANTOR.
A SHOCK WAVE THAT WENT THROUGH A SHOCK WAVE THAT WENT THROUGH THE ENTIRE INSTITUTIONAL THE ENTIRE INSTITUTIONAL REPUBLICAN PARTY.
REPUBLICAN PARTY.
BECAUSE CANTOR WAS NOT JUST THE BECAUSE CANTOR WAS NOT JUST THE MAJORITY LEADER WHO MANAGED THE MAJORITY LEADER WHO MANAGED THE FLOOR.
FLOOR.
THIS WAS SOMEONE WHO FROM A THIS WAS SOMEONE WHO FROM A POLICY PERSPECTIVE WAS LEADING POLICY PERSPECTIVE WAS LEADING THE REPUBLICAN MESSAGE AHEAD OF THE REPUBLICAN MESSAGE AHEAD OF THE 2014 MID TERMS.
THE 2014 MID TERMS.
AND FOR HIM TO BE TAKEN OUT IN AND FOR HIM TO BE TAKEN OUT IN SUCH A FASHION, I THINK THE SUCH A FASHION, I THINK THE REPUBLICAN OFFICIALS ACROSS THE REPUBLICAN OFFICIALS ACROSS THE BOARD, CHAIRMAN RINSE PRIEBUS BOARD, CHAIRMAN RINSE PRIEBUS AND SPEAKER BOEHNER AND LEADER AND SPEAKER BOEHNER AND LEADER MCCONNELL ARE UNSURE HOW TO MCCONNELL ARE UNSURE HOW TO PROCEED AND THOUGHT THE SENATE PROCEED AND THOUGHT THE SENATE MAJORITY WAS WITHIN REACH AND A MAJORITY WAS WITHIN REACH AND A GOOD MESSAGE ON OBAMACARE GOOD MESSAGE ON OBAMACARE OPPOSING IT, ON JOBS AND THE OPPOSING IT, ON JOBS AND THE ECONOMY.
ECONOMY.
NOW THEY'RE RATTLED AND NOT NOW THEY'RE RATTLED AND NOT SURE WHAT'S NEXT.
SURE WHAT'S NEXT.
AND YOU HAVE THE TEA PARTY AND YOU HAVE THE TEA PARTY ASCENDANT AND PERHAPS MORE ASCENDANT AND PERHAPS MORE POWERFUL ON THE OUTSIDE THAN POWERFUL ON THE OUTSIDE THAN THEY ARE ON THE OUTSIDE IN THEY ARE ON THE OUTSIDE IN CONGRESS.
CONGRESS.
AND SO JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO WE AND SO JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE ESTABLISHMENT FEELING GOOD.
ESTABLISHMENT FEELING GOOD.
GWEN: WE MAY HAVE DONE THAT AT GWEN: WE MAY HAVE DONE THAT AT THIS VERY TABLE ACTUALLY.
THIS VERY TABLE ACTUALLY.
>> AND THEY THOUGHT MCCONNELL >> AND THEY THOUGHT MCCONNELL WAS DOING OK. WAS DOING OK. MAYBEED THAT COCHRAN WOULD LOSE MAYBEED THAT COCHRAN WOULD LOSE TO A TEA PARTY IN A RED STATE TO A TEA PARTY IN A RED STATE LIKE MISSISSIPPI BUT SUCCESS LIKE MISSISSIPPI BUT SUCCESS WAS ON THE HORIZON.
WAS ON THE HORIZON.
NOW EVERYTHING IS UP FOR GRABS NOW EVERYTHING IS UP FOR GRABS IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
AND THERE'S A POWER VACUUM AND EVERYONE IS TRYING TO FILL IT.
EVERYONE IS TRYING TO FILL IT.
>> BUT IN TRUTH IT IS A MIXED >> BUT IN TRUTH IT IS A MIXED BAG.
BAG.
MITCH MCCONNELL DID SURVIVE AND MITCH MCCONNELL DID SURVIVE AND JOHN BOEHNER DID SURVIVE.
JOHN BOEHNER DID SURVIVE.
GWEN: LINDSAY GRAHAM.
GWEN: LINDSAY GRAHAM.
>> THE SAME NIGHT ERIC CANTOR >> THE SAME NIGHT ERIC CANTOR WENT DOWN.
WENT DOWN.
SO SOME OF THESE ARE PARTICULAR SO SOME OF THESE ARE PARTICULAR TO THE ELECTION AND REMEMBER, TO THE ELECTION AND REMEMBER, PRIMARY ELECTIONS ARE LOW PRIMARY ELECTIONS ARE LOW TURNOUT ENTERPRISES.
TURNOUT ENTERPRISES.
AND IF YOU MANAGE ONE IN FIVE AND IF YOU MANAGE ONE IN FIVE AMERICANS SHOW UP FOR THOSE AMERICANS SHOW UP FOR THOSE THINGS.
THINGS.
IF YOU CAN MOBILIZE A CADRE OF IF YOU CAN MOBILIZE A CADRE OF PEOPLE YOU CAN MAKE A BIG PEOPLE YOU CAN MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN PARTICULAR DIFFERENCE IN PARTICULAR PLACES.
PLACES.
>> DOES THAT MEAN THEN IT'S >> DOES THAT MEAN THEN IT'S POSSIBLE TO READ TOO MUCH INTO POSSIBLE TO READ TOO MUCH INTO THIS FOR THE TEA PARTY AND THIS THIS FOR THE TEA PARTY AND THIS MAY NOT HERALD A WAVE OF MAY NOT HERALD A WAVE OF VICTORIES FOR THE TEA PARTY IN VICTORIES FOR THE TEA PARTY IN THE FALL AND MAY BE MORE ERIC THE FALL AND MAY BE MORE ERIC CANTOR THAN A SIGNAL ABOUT THE CANTOR THAN A SIGNAL ABOUT THE DEMISE OF TRADITIONAL DEMISE OF TRADITIONAL REPUBLICANS?
REPUBLICANS?
>> I THINK THERE IS A >> I THINK THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT ERIC CANTOR SIGNIFICANT ERIC CANTOR SPECIFIC COMPONENT TO THIS.
SPECIFIC COMPONENT TO THIS.
GWEN: OR WE HAVEN'T MENTIONED GWEN: OR WE HAVEN'T MENTIONED THE GUY WHO BEAT ERIC CANTOR, THE GUY WHO BEAT ERIC CANTOR, ON TO SOMETHING.
ON TO SOMETHING.
>> AND ERIC CANTOR IS A JEWISH >> AND ERIC CANTOR IS A JEWISH REPUBLICAN.
REPUBLICAN.
THIS IS A VERY RURAL THIS IS A VERY RURAL CONSERVATIVE SOUTHERN DISTRICT CONSERVATIVE SOUTHERN DISTRICT WHERE THAT IS NOT -- YOU DON'T WHERE THAT IS NOT -- YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF JEWISH MEMBERS OF HAVE A LOT OF JEWISH MEMBERS OF CONGRESS FROM THE SOUTH.
CONGRESS FROM THE SOUTH.
GWEN: HE'S BEEN ELECTED SEVERAL GWEN: HE'S BEEN ELECTED SEVERAL TIMES FROM THIS DISTRICT.
TIMES FROM THIS DISTRICT.
>> I UNDERSTAND.
>> I UNDERSTAND.
>> BEEN ELECTED -- >> BEEN ELECTED -- >> I DON'T THINK -- I DON'T >> I DON'T THINK -- I DON'T THINK THE FAITH OF ERIC CANTOR THINK THE FAITH OF ERIC CANTOR HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT.
HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT.
I INTERVIEWED BRETT SEVERAL I INTERVIEWED BRETT SEVERAL TIMES IN APRIL AND MAY AND TIMES IN APRIL AND MAY AND SOMEONE WHO'S A POLITICAL SOMEONE WHO'S A POLITICAL AMATEUR AND PROFESSOR OF AMATEUR AND PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AT RANDOLPH MACON ECONOMICS AT RANDOLPH MACON COLLEGE.
AND HE WAS TALKING IN THE AND HE WAS TALKING IN THE TYPICAL TEA PARTY WAY.
TYPICAL TEA PARTY WAY.
CONSTITUTIONAL VALUES.
CONSTITUTIONAL VALUES.
VERY CONSERVATIVE.
VERY CONSERVATIVE.
WE NEED A SEA CHANGE IN WE NEED A SEA CHANGE IN WASHINGTON.
WASHINGTON.
AND ERIC CANTOR -- AND ERIC CANTOR -- >> ALSO A LOT OF GOD IN HIS >> ALSO A LOT OF GOD IN HIS RHETORIC, TOO.
RHETORIC, TOO.
>> THAT IS TRUE.
>> THAT IS TRUE.
>> AND CULTURAL IDENTIFICATION >> AND CULTURAL IDENTIFICATION MATTERS.
MATTERS.
>> BUT I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.
>> BUT I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.
I THINK THERE WAS SOME RHETORIC I THINK THERE WAS SOME RHETORIC ABOUT FAITH.
ABOUT FAITH.
I JUST THINK HE WASN'T -- I I JUST THINK HE WASN'T -- I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WON HIM THE DON'T KNOW IF THAT WON HIM THE RACE.
RACE.
BUT I THINK BRAT COMES TO BUT I THINK BRAT COMES TO WASHINGTON AND MEETS WASHINGTON AND MEETS CONSERVATIVES WHO ARE I THINK CONSERVATIVES WHO ARE I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT AND MAYBE NOT A YOU'RE RIGHT AND MAYBE NOT A LOT OF TEA PARTY PEOPLE TAKING LOT OF TEA PARTY PEOPLE TAKING OVER.
OVER.
BECAUSE WE SEE KEVIN MCCARTHY, BECAUSE WE SEE KEVIN MCCARTHY, THE NEW CURRENT WHIP LOOKING TO THE NEW CURRENT WHIP LOOKING TO EASILY ASCEND TO BE CANTOR'S EASILY ASCEND TO BE CANTOR'S REPLACEMENT AS MAJORITY LEADER REPLACEMENT AS MAJORITY LEADER AND THAT'S A STORY THAT INSIDE AND THAT'S A STORY THAT INSIDE THE HOUSE, THE TEA PARTY IS SO THE HOUSE, THE TEA PARTY IS SO INFLUENTIAL, SO LARGE, YET WHEN INFLUENTIAL, SO LARGE, YET WHEN IT COMES TO MAKING AN ACTUAL IT COMES TO MAKING AN ACTUAL RACE FOR THE LEADERSHIP, DURING RACE FOR THE LEADERSHIP, DURING THIS TIME OF TUMULT AND CRISIS THIS TIME OF TUMULT AND CRISIS THEY'RE NOT ORGANIZED AND THEY THEY'RE NOT ORGANIZED AND THEY DON'T HAVE A CLEAR MESSAGE.
DON'T HAVE A CLEAR MESSAGE.
>> WHAT IS THE TAKEAWAY THEN >> WHAT IS THE TAKEAWAY THEN FOR THE GENERAL ELECTION IN FOR THE GENERAL ELECTION IN LIGHT OF ALL THOSE COMPETING LIGHT OF ALL THOSE COMPETING AND SEEMINGLY CONTRADICTING AND SEEMINGLY CONTRADICTING FACTORS?
FACTORS?
>> WELL, A COUPLE OF THINGS.
RO >> WELL, A COUPLE OF THINGS.
RO ABOUT WHAT TO DO POLICY WISE.
ABOUT WHAT TO DO POLICY WISE.
I DON'T THINK MUCH OF ANYTHING I DON'T THINK MUCH OF ANYTHING IS GOING TO GET DONE POLICY IS GOING TO GET DONE POLICY WISE.
WISE.
GWEN: OR IS ANYTHING GOING TO GWEN: OR IS ANYTHING GOING TO GET DONE POLICY WISE?
GET DONE POLICY WISE?
>> PROBABLY NOT.
>> PROBABLY NOT.
GWEN: THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF GWEN: THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT IMMIGRATION IS DISCUSSION ABOUT IMMIGRATION IS DEAD.
DEAD.
WELL, LAST I CHECKED, WELL, LAST I CHECKED, IMMIGRATION WAS DEAD BEFORE IMMIGRATION WAS DEAD BEFORE THIS.
THIS.
>> WELL, I HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE >> WELL, I HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE FEW HOLDOUTS WHO THOUGHT THERE FEW HOLDOUTS WHO THOUGHT THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY IT MIGHT WAS A POSSIBILITY IT MIGHT HAPPEN BUT THAT POSSIBILITY IS HAPPEN BUT THAT POSSIBILITY IS EXTINGUISHED.
EXTINGUISHED.
SO I DON'T THINK MUCH IS GOING SO I DON'T THINK MUCH IS GOING TO GET DONE.
TO GET DONE.
POLICY WISE.
POLICY WISE.
BUT I DO THINK IF WE GET -- I BUT I DO THINK IF WE GET -- I TALKED TO A FORMER REPUBLICAN TALKED TO A FORMER REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP AIDE WHO SAID THE LEADERSHIP AIDE WHO SAID THE POSSIBILITY OF A GOVERNMENT POSSIBILITY OF A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS ON THE TABLE FOR SHUTDOWN IS ON THE TABLE FOR THIS FALL.
THIS FALL.
BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET OUR APPROPRIATIONS BILLS DONE OUR APPROPRIATIONS BILLS DONE AND MEMBERS ARE GOING TO HAVE AND MEMBERS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE.
TO DECIDE.
THAT IS THE KIND OF EVENT THAT THAT IS THE KIND OF EVENT THAT OCCURRED IN 2013.
OCCURRED IN 2013.
HURT THE REPUBLICANS BADLY.
HURT THE REPUBLICANS BADLY.
IF THAT HAPPENS AGAIN, IT COULD IF THAT HAPPENS AGAIN, IT COULD HURT THEM BADLY AND HAVE AN HURT THEM BADLY AND HAVE AN IMPLICATION FOR THE FALL IMPLICATION FOR THE FALL ELECTIONS.
ELECTIONS.
GWEN: ROBERT?
GWEN: ROBERT?
>> I THINK THERE'S NOW A >> I THINK THERE'S NOW A CONFIDENCE ON THE RIGHT THAT CONFIDENCE ON THE RIGHT THAT THE LEADERSHIP CAN BE TAKEN ON.
THE LEADERSHIP CAN BE TAKEN ON.
AND I THINK PART OF CANTOR'S AND I THINK PART OF CANTOR'S PROBLEM GOES BACK TO THE PROBLEM GOES BACK TO THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN OF 2013.
GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN OF 2013.
CANTOR SPENT ALL OF AUGUST OF CANTOR SPENT ALL OF AUGUST OF 2013 TRYING TO TALK THE TEA 2013 TRYING TO TALK THE TEA PARTY AWAY FROM THE LEDGE.
PARTY AWAY FROM THE LEDGE.
TO SAY THAT THIS IS NOT A SMART TO SAY THAT THIS IS NOT A SMART STRATEGY.
STRATEGY.
BUT DIDN'T LISTEN TO CANTOR.
BUT DIDN'T LISTEN TO CANTOR.
AND CANTOR SPENT TIME IN AND CANTOR SPENT TIME IN JANUARY, FEBRUARY AND MARCH AND JANUARY, FEBRUARY AND MARCH AND COME ONE A MORE EVEN TEMPERED COME ONE A MORE EVEN TEMPERED MESSAGE AND IGNORED HIM AND MESSAGE AND IGNORED HIM AND WITH HIM LOSING THEY WILL WITH HIM LOSING THEY WILL BECOME MORE HARD EDGED AND BECOME MORE HARD EDGED AND JOHN'S RIGHT.
JOHN'S RIGHT.
SOME KIND OF MORE INTRANSIGENT SOME KIND OF MORE INTRANSIGENT MESSAGE AND TACTICS COULD BE ON MESSAGE AND TACTICS COULD BE ON THE WAY IN THE FALL.
THE WAY IN THE FALL.
GWEN: GO AHEAD.
GWEN: GO AHEAD.
>> DO DEMOCRATS AND PRESIDENT >> DO DEMOCRATS AND PRESIDENT OBAMA, DO THEY LOOK AT THIS AS OBAMA, DO THEY LOOK AT THIS AS THIS IS ALL GOOD, THEY'RE THIS IS ALL GOOD, THEY'RE FIGHTING, IT'S CHAOS OR ARE FIGHTING, IT'S CHAOS OR ARE THEY WORRIED -- ANYTHING THAT THEY WORRIED -- ANYTHING THAT WORRIES THEM OUT OF THIS?
WORRIES THEM OUT OF THIS?
>> STENY HOYER REAL QUICK.
>> STENY HOYER REAL QUICK.
AND STENY HOYER AND ONE OF THE AND STENY HOYER AND ONE OF THE TOP DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE, AND TOP DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE, AND HE SAID THE DEMOCRATS WILL HE SAID THE DEMOCRATS WILL START TO RUN ON THE MESS IN THE START TO RUN ON THE MESS IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
REPUBLICAN PARTY.
BUT I THINK DEMOCRATS HAVE TO BUT I THINK DEMOCRATS HAVE TO BE CAREFUL.
BE CAREFUL.
IT IS VERY MESSY ON THE IT IS VERY MESSY ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.
REPUBLICAN SIDE.
BUT WHERE IS THEIR MESSAGE?
BUT WHERE IS THEIR MESSAGE?
WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO SELL FOR WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO SELL FOR THE SECOND TERM OF THE THE SECOND TERM OF THE PRESIDENT'S LAST TWO YEARS?
PRESIDENT'S LAST TWO YEARS?
>> I DO THINK THE WHITE HOUSE >> I DO THINK THE WHITE HOUSE KIND OF WANTED TO GET KIND OF WANTED TO GET IMMIGRATION REFORM.
IMMIGRATION REFORM.
AND SO EVEN IF THE POSSIBILITY AND SO EVEN IF THE POSSIBILITY WAS SMALL, IF IT'S GONE AWAY, WAS SMALL, IF IT'S GONE AWAY, THAT'S BAD FOR THEM.
THAT'S BAD FOR THEM.
GWEN: SO LET'S GO INSIDE SOME GWEN: SO LET'S GO INSIDE SOME OF THE MESSINESS THAT'S OF THE MESSINESS THAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.
HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.
ON THE HILL AND ALSO WHAT'S ON THE HILL AND ALSO WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF HAPPENING IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF RACES.
RACES.
I WANT TO ASK YOU, ROBERT, I WANT TO ASK YOU, ROBERT, ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING.
ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING.
YOU SAID KEVIN MCCARTHY IS YOU SAID KEVIN MCCARTHY IS DOING THIS.
DOING THIS.
HOW IS HE GOING -- HOW DOES HE HOW IS HE GOING -- HOW DOES HE MARCH RIGHT INTO ERIC CANTOR'S MARCH RIGHT INTO ERIC CANTOR'S OLD JOB, THE MAJORITY LEADER'S OLD JOB, THE MAJORITY LEADER'S JOB WITHOUT ANY REAL CHALLENGE?
JOB WITHOUT ANY REAL CHALLENGE?
WE HAVE ONE LAST STANDING TEA WE HAVE ONE LAST STANDING TEA PARTY CHALLENGE BUT THAT'S IT?
PARTY CHALLENGE BUT THAT'S IT?
>> THERE'S A MINOR LONG SOUGHT >> THERE'S A MINOR LONG SOUGHT CHALLENGER IN RAUL LABRADOR CHALLENGER IN RAUL LABRADOR FROM IDAHO AND PART OF THAT FROM IDAHO AND PART OF THAT BOEHNER COUP ATTEMPT IN 2013 BOEHNER COUP ATTEMPT IN 2013 AND DOES NOT HAVE MUCH OF A AND DOES NOT HAVE MUCH OF A CHANCE.
CHANCE.
HIS AIDE TOLD ME ON FRIDAY THAT HIS AIDE TOLD ME ON FRIDAY THAT HE WAS NOT GOING TO EVEN COME HE WAS NOT GOING TO EVEN COME BACK TO THE CAPITOL UNTIL BACK TO THE CAPITOL UNTIL MONDAY OR TUESDAY.
MONDAY OR TUESDAY.
SO HE DOESN'T HAVE THE TIME AND SO HE DOESN'T HAVE THE TIME AND DOESN'T HAVE THE ORGANIZATION.
DOESN'T HAVE THE ORGANIZATION.
MCCARTHY STARTED IMMEDIATELY ON MCCARTHY STARTED IMMEDIATELY ON TUESDAY NIGHT.
TUESDAY NIGHT.
MAKING CALLS.
MAKING CALLS.
HE IS SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN A HE IS SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN A STAFFER IN THE HOUSE.
STAFFER IN THE HOUSE.
HE'S VERY WELL NETWORKED WITH HE'S VERY WELL NETWORKED WITH HIS DEPUTY WHIPS.
HIS DEPUTY WHIPS.
HE WAS -- HE HAS A -- FORMER HE WAS -- HE HAS A -- FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF COUNTING VOTES CHIEF OF STAFF COUNTING VOTES IN HIS FIRST FLOOR CAPITOL IN HIS FIRST FLOOR CAPITOL SUITE AND MCCARTHY IS AHEAD.
SUITE AND MCCARTHY IS AHEAD.
AND SPEED KILLS IN LEADERSHIP AND SPEED KILLS IN LEADERSHIP RACES AND MCCARTHY HAD SPEED.
RACES AND MCCARTHY HAD SPEED.
I CAME FROM THE CAPITOL TO THE I CAME FROM THE CAPITOL TO THE STUDIO.
STUDIO.
AND MEETING WITH STEVE SCALISE, AND MEETING WITH STEVE SCALISE, A REPUBLICAN, A CONSERVATIVE A REPUBLICAN, A CONSERVATIVE FROM LOUISIANA AND AS A FROM LOUISIANA AND AS A CONSERVATIVE IN THE HOUSE, A CONSERVATIVE IN THE HOUSE, A HEAVY CONSERVATIVE AND THINKING HEAVY CONSERVATIVE AND THINKING WITH MCCARTHY ASCENDANT AND WITH MCCARTHY ASCENDANT AND BOEHNER AS SPEAKER YOU HAVE BOEHNER AS SPEAKER YOU HAVE OHIO AND CALIFORNIA IN THE OHIO AND CALIFORNIA IN THE NUMBER ONE AND TWO SPOTS AND NUMBER ONE AND TWO SPOTS AND MAYBE A CONSERVATIVE HAS TO BE MAYBE A CONSERVATIVE HAS TO BE IN THAT NUMBER THREE SPOT.
IN THAT NUMBER THREE SPOT.
SO -- SO -- >> MAJORITY WHIP JOB.
>> MAJORITY WHIP JOB.
>> NUMBER THREE.
>> NUMBER THREE.
IT LOOKS LIKE SCALISE BEATS IT LOOKS LIKE SCALISE BEATS PETER ROSKAM FROM ILLINOIS.
PETER ROSKAM FROM ILLINOIS.
GWEN: PETER ROSKAM WILL BE GWEN: PETER ROSKAM WILL BE BURNING UP YOUR PHONE.
BURNING UP YOUR PHONE.
WHAT'S HAPPENING IN MISSISSIPPI WHAT'S HAPPENING IN MISSISSIPPI AND PERHAPS KANSAS AS WELL.
AND PERHAPS KANSAS AS WELL.
ARE THEY SAYING OH, NO?
ARE THEY SAYING OH, NO?
>> IN MISSISSIPPIED THAT >> IN MISSISSIPPIED THAT COCHRAN HAD AN -- THAD COCHRAN COCHRAN HAD AN -- THAD COCHRAN HAD AN EARLY JUNE AND AN HAD AN EARLY JUNE AND AN INITIAL PRIMARY WITH A TEA INITIAL PRIMARY WITH A TEA PARTY CHALLENGER.
PARTY CHALLENGER.
GWEN: CHRIS MCDANIEL.
GWEN: CHRIS MCDANIEL.
>> CHRIS MCDANIEL.
>> CHRIS MCDANIEL.
WHO POLLED MORE VOTES AND WHO POLLED MORE VOTES AND DIDN'T GET TO 50% AND GOING DIDN'T GET TO 50% AND GOING INTO THE RUNOFF.
INTO THE RUNOFF.
THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM A THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM A RUNOFF TURNOUT GOES DOWN AND RUNOFF TURNOUT GOES DOWN AND THE ONE WITH THE MORE MOTIVATED THE ONE WITH THE MORE MOTIVATED AND MORE PASSIONATE SUPPORTERS AND MORE PASSIONATE SUPPORTERS IS GOING TO WIN AND THAT'S IS GOING TO WIN AND THAT'S LIKELY TO BE THE TEA PARTY LIKELY TO BE THE TEA PARTY CANDIDATE.
CANDIDATE.
THAD COCHRAN'S STRATEGY IS TO THAD COCHRAN'S STRATEGY IS TO NOW EXPAND THE ELECTORATE AND NOW EXPAND THE ELECTORATE AND GO AFTER SOME OF THE DEMOCRATS GO AFTER SOME OF THE DEMOCRATS WHO WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR HIM IN WHO WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR HIM IN THE GENERAL ELECTION BECAUSE THE GENERAL ELECTION BECAUSE HE'S AN INSTITUTION IN THE HE'S AN INSTITUTION IN THE STATE.
STATE.
VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO PULL VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO PULL OFF.
OFF.
SMART OPERATIVES CAN PULL IT SMART OPERATIVES CAN PULL IT OFF HE HAS HALEY BARBOUR ON HIS OFF HE HAS HALEY BARBOUR ON HIS SIDE AND MAYBE IT WILL WORK BUT SIDE AND MAYBE IT WILL WORK BUT GOING TO BE TOUGH.
GOING TO BE TOUGH.
GWEN: HALEY BARBOUR TWO NEPHEWS GWEN: HALEY BARBOUR TWO NEPHEWS AND KANSAS TALKING ABOUT PAT AND KANSAS TALKING ABOUT PAT ROBERTS WHO IS ALSO WITH THE ROBERTS WHO IS ALSO WITH THE NEXT MOST ENDANGERED INCUMBENT.
NEXT MOST ENDANGERED INCUMBENT.
WE SEEM TO BE CLICKING AS WE GO WE SEEM TO BE CLICKING AS WE GO DOWN.
DOWN.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND WELCOME THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND WELCOME TO "WASHINGTON WEEK," ROBERT.
TO "WASHINGTON WEEK," ROBERT.
FINALLY TONIGHT, HOW DO YOU FINALLY TONIGHT, HOW DO YOU SOLVE A PROBLEM LIKE BOWE SOLVE A PROBLEM LIKE BOWE BERGDAHL?
BERGDAHL?
THE ARMY SERGEANT WHO THE ARMY SERGEANT WHO APPARENTLY WALKED AWAY FROM HIS APPARENTLY WALKED AWAY FROM HIS POST THE LATEST FLASHPOINT OF POST THE LATEST FLASHPOINT OF DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE WHITE DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE WHITE HOUSE AND CONGRESS.
HOUSE AND CONGRESS.
THE MUTUAL DISTRUST WAS ON THE MUTUAL DISTRUST WAS ON DISPLAY THIS WEEK.
DISPLAY THIS WEEK.
WHEN DEFENSE SECRETARY CHUCK WHEN DEFENSE SECRETARY CHUCK HAGEL WENT TO CAPITOL HILL.
HAGEL WENT TO CAPITOL HILL.
>> I NEVER SAID I DON'T TRUST >> I NEVER SAID I DON'T TRUST THE CONGRESS.
THE CONGRESS.
THOSE ARE YOUR WORDS.
THOSE ARE YOUR WORDS.
>> NO, NO.
>> NO, NO.
YOUR ACTIONS -- YOUR ACTIONS -- >> I DIDN'T SAY -- YOU SAID I >> I DIDN'T SAY -- YOU SAID I SAID IT.
SAID IT.
>> YOUR ACTIONS DEMONSTRATE, >> YOUR ACTIONS DEMONSTRATE, MR. SECRETARY, THAT YOU DO NOT MR. SECRETARY, THAT YOU DO NOT TRUST CONGRESS BECAUSE YOU TRUST CONGRESS BECAUSE YOU WOULD NOT -- WOULD NOT -- >> NOW MY ACTIONS.
>> NOW MY ACTIONS.
>> THE RANKING MEMBER, >> THE RANKING MEMBER, SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
YOUR ACTIONS SAY YOU DON'T YOUR ACTIONS SAY YOU DON'T TRUST CONGRESS.
TRUST CONGRESS.
I GET IT.
I GET IT.
GWEN: EVERYBODY HAD THEIR GWEN: EVERYBODY HAD THEIR WHEATIES THAT DAY, MARK.
WHEATIES THAT DAY, MARK.
WHERE DO THINGS STAND TONIGHT?
WHERE DO THINGS STAND TONIGHT?
>> WELL, AS WE ALL JUST SAW, >> WELL, AS WE ALL JUST SAW, THINGS GOT VERY HEATED THIS THINGS GOT VERY HEATED THIS WEEK WHEN SECRETARY HAGEL WENT WEEK WHEN SECRETARY HAGEL WENT UP THERE.
UP THERE.
THERE'S STILL A LOT OF THERE'S STILL A LOT OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS.
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS.
THE HEARING THIS WEEK DIDN'T THE HEARING THIS WEEK DIDN'T GET INTO THE ISSUE OF HOW DID GET INTO THE ISSUE OF HOW DID BERGDAHL GET CAPTURED?
BERGDAHL GET CAPTURED?
DID HE DESERT?
DID HE DESERT?
ALL THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES.
ALL THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES.
THEY LEFT THOSE ASIDE.
THEY LEFT THOSE ASIDE.
THE QUESTIONS THEY DEALT WITH THE QUESTIONS THEY DEALT WITH WERE WHY WAS CONGRESS NOT TOLD WERE WHY WAS CONGRESS NOT TOLD ABOUT THIS SWAP?
ABOUT THIS SWAP?
THESE FIVE TALIBAN PRISONERS.
THESE FIVE TALIBAN PRISONERS.
DO THEY POSE A THREAT?
DO THEY POSE A THREAT?
AND THIS QUESTION OF DID THE AND THIS QUESTION OF DID THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION VIOLATE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION VIOLATE THIS LONG-STANDING POLICY OF THIS LONG-STANDING POLICY OF NOT NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS NOT NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS BY DOING THIS DEAL?
BY DOING THIS DEAL?
GWEN: LET'S TAKE THOSE ONE AT A GWEN: LET'S TAKE THOSE ONE AT A TIME.
TIME.
LET'S START WITH THE PART OF LET'S START WITH THE PART OF CONGRESSIONAL -- CONGRESSIONAL -- >> THE CONGRESS -- REPUBLICANS >> THE CONGRESS -- REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS AGREED THEY AND DEMOCRATS AGREED THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN TOLD.
SHOULD HAVE BEEN TOLD.
AND AS MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AND AS MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WOULD.
WOULD.
AND IT REALLY -- THE CASE AND IT REALLY -- THE CASE WASN'T VERY STRONG FOR THE WASN'T VERY STRONG FOR THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION ABOUT WHY OBAMA ADMINISTRATION ABOUT WHY NOBODY ON CAPITOL HILL COULD BE NOBODY ON CAPITOL HILL COULD BE TOLD ABOUT THIS.
TOLD ABOUT THIS.
I MEAN, THEY KNEW ABOUT THE BIN I MEAN, THEY KNEW ABOUT THE BIN LADEN RAID.
LADEN RAID.
IN ADVANCE.
IN ADVANCE.
SO SOME CAN KEEP A SECRET.
SO SOME CAN KEEP A SECRET.
AND I THINK THAT WAS WHERE AND I THINK THAT WAS WHERE HAGEL HAD THE BIGGEST TROUBLE HAGEL HAD THE BIGGEST TROUBLE THIS WEEK.
THIS WEEK.
WAS MAKING THAT CASE.
WAS MAKING THAT CASE.
ON THE OTHER CASES, HE HAD A ON THE OTHER CASES, HE HAD A MESSAGE.
MESSAGE.
HE WANTED TO SAY I UNDERSTAND HE WANTED TO SAY I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU GUYS DON'T AGREE WITH THAT YOU GUYS DON'T AGREE WITH THIS DEAL.
THIS DEAL.
BUT THIS IS WAR.
BUT THIS IS WAR.
I WAS IN COMBAT.
I WAS IN COMBAT.
I KNOW WAR.
I KNOW WAR.
IT'S UGLY.
IT'S UGLY.
IT'S MESSY BUT THIS IS WHAT IT'S MESSY BUT THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS IN WAR.
HAPPENS IN WAR.
AND IT WAS A GOOD CASE.
AND IT WAS A GOOD CASE.
AND THERE WAS -- THERE WAS LESS AND THERE WAS -- THERE WAS LESS CHALLENGE ON THAT FRONT THAN ON CHALLENGE ON THAT FRONT THAN ON SOME OF THE OTHER ISSUES.
SOME OF THE OTHER ISSUES.
>> MARK, NOW SERGEANT BERGDAHL >> MARK, NOW SERGEANT BERGDAHL HAS RUSHED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE HAS RUSHED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT TO SAN ANTONIO FOR WHAT NIGHT TO SAN ANTONIO FOR WHAT THE PENTAGON CALLS PHASE THREE THE PENTAGON CALLS PHASE THREE OF HIS REINTEGRATION PROCESS.
OF HIS REINTEGRATION PROCESS.
WHAT WILL THAT LOOK LIKE?
WHAT WILL THAT LOOK LIKE?
WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THEY WILL BE DOING TO HELP HIM THEY WILL BE DOING TO HELP HIM INTEGRATE BACK IN AFTER FIVE INTEGRATE BACK IN AFTER FIVE YEARS OF CAPTIVITY?
YEARS OF CAPTIVITY?
>> HE'S APPARENTLY JUST TRYING >> HE'S APPARENTLY JUST TRYING TO RE-LEARN ENGLISH.
TO RE-LEARN ENGLISH.
IT'S BASIC LANGUAGE SKILLS.
IT'S BASIC LANGUAGE SKILLS.
IT'S PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATIONS.
IT'S PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATIONS.
THERE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT WHEN HE THERE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT WHEN HE WILL EVENTUALLY SEE HIS PARENTS WILL EVENTUALLY SEE HIS PARENTS AND TALK TO HIS PARENTS AND AND TALK TO HIS PARENTS AND APPARENTLY HE HASN'T YET.
APPARENTLY HE HASN'T YET.
AND JUST THINKING ABOUT HOW FAR AND JUST THINKING ABOUT HOW FAR WE'VE COME IN LESS THAN TWO WE'VE COME IN LESS THAN TWO WEEKS.
WEEKS.
YOU HAD THIS SORT OF JOYOUS YOU HAD THIS SORT OF JOYOUS CEREMONY IN THE ROSE GARDEN.
CEREMONY IN THE ROSE GARDEN.
WHITE HOUSE.
WHITE HOUSE.
AND NOW IT'S LOOKING LIKE THERE AND NOW IT'S LOOKING LIKE THERE WON'T BE A BIG HOMECOMING IN WON'T BE A BIG HOMECOMING IN IDAHO.
IDAHO.
THERE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT THE THERE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PARENTS HAVE HAD DEATH THREATS PARENTS HAVE HAD DEATH THREATS AND SUCH AN EXTRAORDINARY STORY AND SUCH AN EXTRAORDINARY STORY IN LESS THAN WO WEEKS.
IN LESS THAN WO WEEKS.
AND WHERE THINGS HAVE COME.
AND WHERE THINGS HAVE COME.
>> HAVE WE LEARNED ANYTHING IN >> HAVE WE LEARNED ANYTHING IN THE LAST WEEK ON THIS QUESTION THE LAST WEEK ON THIS QUESTION OF WHETHER THIS IS JUST ON THE OF WHETHER THIS IS JUST ON THE ONE HAND A TROUBLED YOUNG MAN ONE HAND A TROUBLED YOUNG MAN WHO MAYBE WANDERED OFF HIS BASE WHO MAYBE WANDERED OFF HIS BASE BEFORE VERSUS SOMEBODY WHO WAS BEFORE VERSUS SOMEBODY WHO WAS A TRTOR,AI WHO HAD TURNED ON A TRTOR,AI WHO HAD TURNED ON HIS COUNTRY AND THE RELEVANCE HIS COUNTRY AND THE RELEVANCE THAT THOSE FACTS MIGHT HAVE TO THAT THOSE FACTS MIGHT HAVE TO THE URGENCY OF TRYING TO GET THE URGENCY OF TRYING TO GET HELP OUT?
HELP OUT?
>> THERE WERE CERTAINLY STORIES >> THERE WERE CERTAINLY STORIES THIS WEEK, VERY GOOD ONE IN THIS WEEK, VERY GOOD ONE IN "THE WASHINGTON POST" ABOUT HIS "THE WASHINGTON POST" ABOUT HIS -- SOME LETTERS HE HAD WRITTEN.
-- SOME LETTERS HE HAD WRITTEN.
HIS PSYCHOLOGICAL STATE.
HIS PSYCHOLOGICAL STATE.
HE HAD HAD A STINT IN THE COAST HE HAD HAD A STINT IN THE COAST GUARD.
GUARD.
AND HE WASHED OUT.
AND HE WASHED OUT.
CLEARLY THIS WAS SOMEONE WHO CLEARLY THIS WAS SOMEONE WHO HAD SOME PROBLEMS BEFORE HAD SOME PROBLEMS BEFORE JOINING THE ARMY.
JOINING THE ARMY.
IT DIDN'T GET TO THIS ISSUE, IT DIDN'T GET TO THIS ISSUE, THOUGH, OF IS HE A DESERTER AND THOUGH, OF IS HE A DESERTER AND IS HE A TRAITOR?
IS HE A TRAITOR?
THERE IS A STILL CLASSIFIED THERE IS A STILL CLASSIFIED PENTAGON REPORT THAT SAYS THAT PENTAGON REPORT THAT SAYS THAT HE DIDN'T SEEM TO IN A HE DIDN'T SEEM TO IN A PREMEDITATED FASHION PLANNED TO PREMEDITATED FASHION PLANNED TO WALK OFF THE BASE.
WALK OFF THE BASE.
BUT HE MAY HAVE COME BACK.
BUT HE MAY HAVE COME BACK.
HE HAD COME BACK BEFORE.
HE HAD COME BACK BEFORE.
SO THOSE QUESTIONS ARE STILL SO THOSE QUESTIONS ARE STILL OUT THERE.
OUT THERE.
AND THEY STILL -- ARE THINGS HE AND THEY STILL -- ARE THINGS HE WILL HAVE TO FACE PERHAPS.
WILL HAVE TO FACE PERHAPS.
BUT WHEN HE GOES THROUGH THE BUT WHEN HE GOES THROUGH THE RECOVERY IN THE MILITARY WILL RECOVERY IN THE MILITARY WILL ASK HIM THESE THINGS.
ASK HIM THESE THINGS.
GWEN: READING THOSE EMAILS HE GWEN: READING THOSE EMAILS HE SEEMED TO BE A TROUBLED PERSON.
SEEMED TO BE A TROUBLED PERSON.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
AND SO THESE ARE QUESTIONS THAT AND SO THESE ARE QUESTIONS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DELVE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DELVE INTO.
INTO.
AND THE ARMY AND THE PENTAGON AND THE ARMY AND THE PENTAGON BRASS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE BRASS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE HOW HARD THEY WANT TO GO AT HIM HOW HARD THEY WANT TO GO AT HIM FOR THESE -- BECAUSE THIS FOR THESE -- BECAUSE THIS CLEARLY WAS SOMEONE WHO WAS CLEARLY WAS SOMEONE WHO WAS TROUBLED.
TROUBLED.
>> WHAT WAS THE WHITE HOUSE'S >> WHAT WAS THE WHITE HOUSE'S TAKE ON HAGEL?
TAKE ON HAGEL?
AND WHAT DO THEY THINK ABOUT AND WHAT DO THEY THINK ABOUT HIS MESSAGE, HIS RECEPTION IN HIS MESSAGE, HIS RECEPTION IN CONGRESS, AND IS HE THE CONGRESS, AND IS HE THE SPOKESMAN GOING FORWARD FOR SPOKESMAN GOING FORWARD FOR THEM AS THEY DEAL WITH THIS THEM AS THEY DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE?
ISSUE?
>> AS WE ALL KNOW, HE'S SOMEONE >> AS WE ALL KNOW, HE'S SOMEONE WHO HAD A VERY ROCKY FIRST SORT WHO HAD A VERY ROCKY FIRST SORT OF DEBUT IN HIS CONFIRMATION OF DEBUT IN HIS CONFIRMATION HEARINGS.
HEARINGS.
A YEAR AGO.
A YEAR AGO.
AND THIS WAS SEEN I THINK BY AND THIS WAS SEEN I THINK BY THE WHITE HOUSE AND OTHERS AS THE WHITE HOUSE AND OTHERS AS HE DID A VERY GOOD JOB IN HE DID A VERY GOOD JOB IN DEFENDING THE DEAL.
DEFENDING THE DEAL.
NOW, AGAIN, IT'S HIS WACK NOW, AGAIN, IT'S HIS WACK GROUND AND HIS PERSONAL GROUND AND HIS PERSONAL BIOGRAPHY IN SOME WAYS, CAN BE BIOGRAPHY IN SOME WAYS, CAN BE VERY COMPELLING.
VERY COMPELLING.
THAT HE CAN LOOK CONGRESSMEN IN THAT HE CAN LOOK CONGRESSMEN IN THE EYES AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THE EYES AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WAR.
THIS IS WAR.
AND I KNOW IT.
AND I KNOW IT.
AND A LOT OF THEM DON'T.
AND A LOT OF THEM DON'T.
SO I THINK ON THAT MESSAGE, HE SO I THINK ON THAT MESSAGE, HE WAS PRETTY FIRM AND MAYBE THE WAS PRETTY FIRM AND MAYBE THE SPOKESMAN FOR THAT GOING SPOKESMAN FOR THAT GOING FORWARD.
FORWARD.
GWEN: AND THEY STILL HAVE TO GWEN: AND THEY STILL HAVE TO WAIT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH WAIT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THOSE FIVE DETAINEES WHO WERE THOSE FIVE DETAINEES WHO WERE RELEASED TO QATAR AND FIND OUT RELEASED TO QATAR AND FIND OUT WHETHER THEY DO COME BACK TO WHETHER THEY DO COME BACK TO ATTACK AGAIN.
ATTACK AGAIN.
THIS HAS BEEN A GOOD SHOW.
THIS HAS BEEN A GOOD SHOW.
WE HAVE TO GO PUT AS ALWAYS THE WE HAVE TO GO PUT AS ALWAYS THE CONVERSATION CONTINUES ONLINE.
CONVERSATION CONTINUES ONLINE.
THE "WASHINGTON WEEK" WEBCAST THE "WASHINGTON WEEK" WEBCAST EXTRA STREAMS LIVE AT 8:30 P.M.
EXTRA STREAMS LIVE AT 8:30 P.M. EASTERN.
EASTERN.
AND YOU CAN FIND IT ALL WEEK AND YOU CAN FIND IT ALL WEEK LONG AT PBS.ORG/WASHINGTONWEEK.
LONG AT PBS.ORG/WASHINGTONWEEK.
AMONG OTHER THINGS, WE'LL TALK AMONG OTHER THINGS, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE RST FILEG OF HILLARY ABOUT THE RST FILEG OF HILLARY CLINTON'S CAMPAIGN -- I MEAN, CLINTON'S CAMPAIGN -- I MEAN, BOOK TOUR.
BOOK TOUR.
KEEP UP WITH DAILY DEVELOPMENTS KEEP UP WITH DAILY DEVELOPMENTS WITH ME AND JUDY WOODRUFF ON WITH ME AND JUDY WOODRUFF ON "THE PBS NEWSHOUR" AND WE'LL "THE PBS NEWSHOUR" AND WE'LL SEE YOU HERE NEXT WEEK ON SEE YOU HERE NEXT WEEK ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."
"WASHINGTON WEEK."
AND TO ALL THE DADS OUT THERE, AND TO ALL THE DADS OUT THERE, INCLUDING THOSE AT THE TABLE, INCLUDING THOSE AT THE TABLE, HAPPY FATHER'S DAY.
HAPPY FATHER'S DAY.
GOOD NIGHT.