GWEN: SHIFTING SANDS AT THE V.A.
ON IMMIGRATION REFORM AND V.A.
ON IMMIGRATION REFORM AND IN POLITICS.
IN POLITICS.
WE'LL COVER THE TOPSY-TURVY WE'LL COVER THE TOPSY-TURVY WEEK TONIGHT ON "WASHINGTON WEEK TONIGHT ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."
WEEK."
>> POLITICAL INTERESTSO NOT >> POLITICAL INTERESTSO NOT COME, DO NOT COME BEFORE THE COME, DO NOT COME BEFORE THE NEEDS OF THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO NEEDS OF THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO HAVE SERVED AND SACRIFICED FOR HAVE SERVED AND SACRIFICED FOR THIS COUNTRY.
THIS COUNTRY.
GWEN: RARE BIPARTISAN GWEN: RARE BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT.
AGREEMENT.
>> TREATATG THOSE TO WHOM WE >> TREATATG THOSE TO WHOM WE OWE THE MOST SO CALLOUSLY AND OWE THE MOST SO CALLOUSLY AND SO UNGRATEFULLY IS SO UNGRATEFULLY IS UNCONSCIONABLE.
UNCONSCIONABLE.
AND WE SHOULD ALL BE ASHAMED.
AND WE SHOULD ALL BE ASHAMED.
>> THIS NEEDS TO BE A WAKE-UP >> THIS NEEDS TO BE A WAKE-UP CALL FOR THE DEPARTMENT.
CALL FOR THE DEPARTMENT.
GWEN: AS VETERANS' AFFAIRS GWEN: AS VETERANS' AFFAIRS CHIEF ERIC SHINSEKI IS FORCED CHIEF ERIC SHINSEKI IS FORCED TO DEFEND THE AGENCY AGAINST TO DEFEND THE AGENCY AGAINST CHARGES OF SUBSTANDARD CHARGES OF SUBSTANDARD TREATMENT AT V.A.
HOSPITALS.
TREATMENT AT V.A.
HOSPITALS.
>> WHATEVER COMES OUT OF THIS, >> WHATEVER COMES OUT OF THIS, WHATEVER SUBSTANTIATED, ACTIONS WHATEVER SUBSTANTIATED, ACTIONS WILL BE TAKEN.
WILL BE TAKEN.
WE WILL TAKE ACTIONS ON.
WE WILL TAKE ACTIONS ON.
GWEN: SO THE INVESTIGATIONS GWEN: SO THE INVESTIGATIONS BEGIN.
BEGIN.
ON CAPITOL HILIL TOUGH CHOICES ON CAPITOL HILIL TOUGH CHOICES AS IMMIGRATION REFORM APPEARS AS IMMIGRATION REFORM APPEARS TO STALL.
TO STALL.
>> WE'VE GOT THIS NARW RO >> WE'VE GOT THIS NARW RO WINDOW.
WINDOW.
THE CLOSER WE GET TO THE THE CLOSER WE GET TO THE MID-TERM LEBS THE HARDER IT IS MID-TERM LEBS THE HARDER IT IS TO GET THINGS DONE AROUND HERE.
TO GET THINGS DONE AROUND HERE.
>> I DON'T KNOW WHETHER WE'RE >> I DON'T KNOW WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO GET TO IT THIS YEAR OR GOING TO GET TO IT THIS YEAR OR NOT.
NOT.
I THINK WE SHOULD.
I THINK WE SHOULD.
THE APPETIT AMONGST MY THE APPETIT AMONGST MY COLLEAGUES FOR DOING THIS IS COLLEAGUES FOR DOING THIS IS NOT REAL GOOD.
NOT REAL GOOD.
GWEN: MEANWHILE, THE CAMPAIGN GWEN: MEANWHILE, THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL HEATS UP.
TRAIL HEATS UP.
WITH A NEW FACE FROM NEBRASKA.
WITH A NEW FACE FROM NEBRASKA.
>> THIS FEELS GOOD.
>> THIS FEELS GOOD.
WHEN YOU'RE -- WHEN YOU'RE A WHEN YOU'RE -- WHEN YOU'RE A ROOKIE AND YOU'VE NEVER DONE ROOKIE AND YOU'VE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE.
THIS BEFORE.
GWEN: AND THE CLINTONS JUMP GWEN: AND THE CLINTONS JUMP INTO THE FRAY AFTER QUESTIONS INTO THE FRAY AFTER QUESTIONS ARE RAISED ABOUT HILLARY'S ARE RAISED ABOUT HILLARY'S HEALTH HEALTH >> DO YOU THINK THIS IS THEIR >> DO YOU THINK THIS IS THEIR WAY OF INSERTING HER AGE OR HER WAY OF INSERTING HER AGE OR HER PHYSICAL CAPABILITIES INTO THE PHYSICAL CAPABILITIES INTO THE 2016 DEBATE?
2016 DEBATE?
>> I DON'T KNOW.
>> I DON'T KNOW.
BUT IF IT IS, YOU CAN'T BE TOO BUT IF IT IS, YOU CAN'T BE TOO UPSET ABOUT IT.
UPSET ABOUT IT.
IT'S JUST THE BEGINNING.
IT'S JUST THE BEGINNING.
THEY'LL GET BETTER AND BETTER THEY'LL GET BETTER AND BETTER AT IT.
AT IT.
GWEN: JUST THE BEGINNING.
GWEN: JUST THE BEGINNING.
COVERING THE WEEK, MARTHA COVERING THE WEEK, MARTHA RADDATZ OF ABC NEWS.
RADDATZ OF ABC NEWS.
JOHN HARWOOD OF CNBC AND "THE JOHN HARWOOD OF CNBC AND "THE NEW YORK TIMES."
NEW YORK TIMES."
MOLLY BALL OF THE ATLANTIC.
MOLLY BALL OF THE ATLANTIC.
AND JOHN DICKERSON OF "SLATE" AND JOHN DICKERSON OF "SLATE" MAGAZINE AND CBS NEWS.
MAGAZINE AND CBS NEWS.
>> AWARD-WINNING REPORTING AND >> AWARD-WINNING REPORTING AND ANALYSIS, COVERING HISTORY AS ANALYSIS, COVERING HISTORY AS IT HAPPENS.
IT HAPPENS.
LIVE FROM OUR NATION'S CAPITAL, LIVE FROM OUR NATION'S CAPITAL, THIS IS "WASHINGTON WEEK WITH THIS IS "WASHINGTON WEEK WITH GWEN IFILL."
ONCE AGAIN LIVE FROM WASHINGTON, MODERATOR GWEN WASHINGTON, MODERATOR GWEN IFILL.
IFILL.
GWEN: GOOD EVENING.
GWEN: GOOD EVENING.
NOTHING SPELLS BIPARTISAN NOTHING SPELLS BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT LIKE SUPPORTING AGREEMENT LIKE SUPPORTING MILITARY VETERANS.
MILITARY VETERANS.
SO WHEN REPORTS BEGAN SURFACING SO WHEN REPORTS BEGAN SURFACING THAT AS MANY AS 40 VETS MAY THAT AS MANY AS 40 VETS MAY HAVE DIED BECAUSE THEY WERE HAVE DIED BECAUSE THEY WERE SHUFFLED TO SECRET WAITING SHUFFLED TO SECRET WAITING LISTS AT V.A.
HOSPITALS, IT WAS LISTS AT V.A.
HOSPITALS, IT WAS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE CONGRESS AND THE PRESS, TOO, CONGRESS AND THE PRESS, TOO, WEIGHED IN.
WEIGHED IN.
>> HAVE YOU FIRED ANY >> HAVE YOU FIRED ANY ADMINISTRATORS WHO WERE ADMINISTRATORS WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR VETERANS DYING RESPONSIBLE FOR VETERANS DYING DUE TO DELAYED CARE?
DUE TO DELAYED CARE?
>> WE HAVE TAKEN ACTION AGAINST >> WE HAVE TAKEN ACTION AGAINST SENIOR LEADERS.
SENIOR LEADERS.
>> FIRED?
>> FIRED?
>> I WOULD INCLUDE -- YES, THEM >> I WOULD INCLUDE -- YES, THEM BEING REMOVED FROM V.A.
BEING REMOVED FROM V.A.
GWEN: IT WAS ALSO ONLY A MATTER GWEN: IT WAS ALSO ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE SHINSEKI HIMSELF OF TIME BEFORE SHINSEKI HIMSELF CAME UNDER FIRE WITH DEMANDS CAME UNDER FIRE WITH DEMANDS FOR HIS RESIGNATION.
FOR HIS RESIGNATION.
AND THERE WAS A RESIGNATION, AND THERE WAS A RESIGNATION, JUST NOT THIS AFTERNOON.
JUST NOT THIS AFTERNOON.
NOT JUST HIS.
NOT JUST HIS.
ROBERT PETZEL THE V.A.
ROBERT PETZEL THE V.A.
UNDERSECRETARY FOR HEALTH UNDERSECRETARY FOR HEALTH ANNOUNCED HE'S QUITTING.
ANNOUNCED HE'S QUITTING.
WHAT ARE THE FACTS SO FAR, WHAT ARE THE FACTS SO FAR, MARTHA?
MARTHA?
>> THE FACTS ARE LET'S TALK >> THE FACTS ARE LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS RESIGNATION BY ABOUT THIS RESIGNATION BY ROBERTRT PETZEL.
ROBERTRT PETZEL.
HE WAS ON THE HILL THURSDAY HE WAS ON THE HILL THURSDAY TESTIFYING WITH GENERAL TESTIFYING WITH GENERAL SHINSEKI.
SHINSEKI.
THEY ANNOUNCED, THE V.A.
PUT THEY ANNOUNCED, THE V.A.
PUT OUT A PRESS RELEASE SAYING HE OUT A PRESS RELEASE SAYING HE HAD RESIGNED.
HAD RESIGNED.
AND SHINSEKI ACCEPTED THE AND SHINSEKI ACCEPTED THE RESIGNATION OF PETZEL.
RESIGNATION OF PETZEL.
GWEN: THE WHITE HOUSE CAME OUT GWEN: THE WHITE HOUSE CAME OUT WITH A YES, WE ACCEPT IT, TOO.
WITH A YES, WE ACCEPT IT, TOO.
>> WE ACCEPT IT, TOO.
>> WE ACCEPT IT, TOO.
BUT IT TURNS OUT, GWEN, THAT HE BUT IT TURNS OUT, GWEN, THAT HE WAS SLATED FOR RETIREMENT THIS WAS SLATED FOR RETIREMENT THIS YEAR.
YEAR.
AND HIS REPLACEMENT HAD ALREADY AND HIS REPLACEMENT HAD ALREADY BEEN NAMED.
BEEN NAMED.
SO NOT EXACTLY SWEEPING OUT THE SO NOT EXACTLY SWEEPING OUT THE OLD GUARD IN THE V.A.
OLD GUARD IN THE V.A.
SO TO ME, IT WAS SO TONE DEAF SO TO ME, IT WAS SO TONE DEAF TO PUT OUT A PRESS RELEASE LIKE TO PUT OUT A PRESS RELEASE LIKE THAT.
THAT.
AND NOT MENTION THE FACT THAT AND NOT MENTION THE FACT THAT HE WAS SLATED FOR RETIREMENT.
HE WAS SLATED FOR RETIREMENT.
AND THE PRESIDENT HAD ALREADY AND THE PRESIDENT HAD ALREADY CHOSEN HIS REPLACEMENT.
CHOSEN HIS REPLACEMENT.
GWEN: SO NOW WHAT DO WE THINK GWEN: SO NOW WHAT DO WE THINK IS THE TRUTH OF WHAT THESE IS THE TRUTH OF WHAT THESE REPORTS ARE?
REPORTS ARE?
>> WELL, I THINK THEY DO HAVE >> WELL, I THINK THEY DO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THESE REPORTS.
IN THESE REPORTS.
BUT YOU'VE HEARD LOTS OF BUT YOU'VE HEARD LOTS OF VOICES.
VOICES.
HOUGH HEARD WHISTLEBLOWERS AND HOUGH HEARD WHISTLEBLOWERS AND YOU'VE HEARD DOCTORS COME OUT YOU'VE HEARD DOCTORS COME OUT FROM THE PHOENIX FACILITY.
FROM THE PHOENIX FACILITY.
AND OTHER FACILITIES SAYING AND OTHER FACILITIES SAYING YES, THERE WAS THIS WAITING YES, THERE WAS THIS WAITING LIST AND THEY TRIED TO HIDE LIST AND THEY TRIED TO HIDE THIS WAIT TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THIS WAIT TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THEY WERE.DOING BETTER THAN THEY WERE.DOING BETTER THAN >> MARTHA, TO WHAT EXTENT DO >> MARTHA, TO WHAT EXTENT DO THESE PROBLEMS REFLECT THESE PROBLEMS REFLECT SOMETHING THAT ERIC SHINSEKI SOMETHING THAT ERIC SHINSEKI INHERITED OR SOMETHING THAT'S INHERITED OR SOMETHING THAT'S ACCUMULATED ON HIS WATCH AS ACCUMULATED ON HIS WATCH AS HE'S GOTTEN AN INCREASING HE'S GOTTEN AN INCREASING NUMBER OF IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN NUMBER OF IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN VETERANS COMG ONIN THE SYSTEM?
VETERANS COMG ONIN THE SYSTEM?
>> THE V.A.
HAS HAD TROUBLE FOR >> THE V.A.
HAS HAD TROUBLE FOR A LONG TIME.
A LONG TIME.
ONCE YOU GET IN THE SYSTEM, ONCE YOU GET IN THE SYSTEM, ONCE YOU HAVE HEALTH CARE, ONCE YOU HAVE HEALTH CARE, THERE ARE LOTS OF GOOD THINGS THERE ARE LOTS OF GOOD THINGS SAID ABOUT IT.
SAID ABOUT IT.
BUT THAT WAIT STARTED A LONG BUT THAT WAIT STARTED A LONG TIME AGO.
TIME AGO.
ON THE OTHER HAND, SHINSEKI HAS ON THE OTHER HAND, SHINSEKI HAS BEEN THERE 5 1/2 YEARS.
BEEN THERE 5 1/2 YEARS.
WE WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF TWO WE WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF TWO WARS, WHY YOU WOULDN'T PREDICT WARS, WHY YOU WOULDN'T PREDICT THAT YOU WOULD HAVE ALL THESE THAT YOU WOULD HAVE ALL THESE PEOPLE AND START TAKING CARE OF PEOPLE AND START TAKING CARE OF IT A LONG TIME AGO, ONE YOUNG IT A LONG TIME AGO, ONE YOUNG VETERAN SAID TO ME, IT'S GREAT.
VETERAN SAID TO ME, IT'S GREAT.
THEY'RE MAKING PROGRESS NOW.
THEY'RE MAKING PROGRESS NOW.
BUT IT'S KIND OF LIKE THEY BUT IT'S KIND OF LIKE THEY DROVE THE CAR INTO THE DITCH DROVE THE CAR INTO THE DITCH AND NOW THEY WANT CREDIT FOR AND NOW THEY WANT CREDIT FOR PULLING IT HALFWAY OUT.
PULLING IT HALFWAY OUT.
SO I THINK WE ALL SAY, YES, SO I THINK WE ALL SAY, YES, THERE WERE LOTS OF OLD THERE WERE LOTS OF OLD VETERANS.
VETERANS.
CAN'T YOU FIGURE THAT OUT?
CAN'T YOU FIGURE THAT OUT?
AND YOU HAVE MILLIONS COMING AND YOU HAVE MILLIONS COMING HOME.
HOME.
AND THE PROBLEM IS ONLY GOING AND THE PROBLEM IS ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE.
TO GET WORSE.
>> IT SEEMS LIKE TAKING CARE OF >> IT SEEMS LIKE TAKING CARE OF OUR VETERANS OUGHT TO BE THE OUR VETERANS OUGHT TO BE THE LEAST CONTROVERSIAL THING IN LEAST CONTROVERSIAL THING IN THE WORLD.
THE WORLD.
AND NOT A PARTISAN ISSUE AND AND NOT A PARTISAN ISSUE AND OUGHT TO BE SOMETHING THAT OUGHT TO BE SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY CAN AGREE ON.
EVERYBODY CAN AGREE ON.
THERE OUGHT TO BE THE POLITICAL THERE OUGHT TO BE THE POLITICAL WILL TO DO THIS AND IT IS A WILL TO DO THIS AND IT IS A CHRONIC PROBLEM.
CHRONIC PROBLEM.
WHY DOESN'T IT GET FIXED?
WHY DOESN'T IT GET FIXED?
>> I THINK ONENETHE THINGS >> I THINK ONENETHE THINGS IS, IT'S A REALLY DIFFICULT IS, IT'S A REALLY DIFFICULT PROBLEM.
PROBLEM.
IT IS NOT EASY.
IT IS NOT EASY.
AND THE STRUCTURE AND THE AND THE STRUCTURE AND THE BUREAUCRACY OF THE VETERANS BUREAUCRACY OF THE VETERANS ADMINISTRATION IS COMPLEX, ISIS ADMINISTRATION IS COMPLEX, ISIS IMMENSE.
IMMENSE.
YOU DO HAVE -- YOU DO HAVE -- GWEN: AND LARGEST HEALTH CARE GWEN: AND LARGEST HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.
SYSTEM.
>> YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT, GWEN.
>> YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT, GWEN.
NATION'S LARGEST HEALTH CARE NATION'S LARGEST HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.
SYSTEM.
>> IS BUREAUCRACY MORE THE >> IS BUREAUCRACY MORE THE PROBLEM THAN LACK OF MONEY?
PROBLEM THAN LACK OF MONEY?
>> I THINK IT PROBABLY IS AT >> I THINK IT PROBABLY IS AT THIS POINT.
THIS POINT.
YOU CAN POUR ALL THE MONEY INTO YOU CAN POUR ALL THE MONEY INTO THE WORLD, BUT IF YOU DON'T THE WORLD, BUT IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE IT AND DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE IT AND DON'T KNOW HOW TO SPEND AND DON'T KNOW HOW TO SPEND AND DON'T KNOW HOW TO ANALYZE WHAT YOU'RE KNOW HOW TO ANALYZE WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND HOW MANY VETERANS YOU DOING AND HOW MANY VETERANS YOU GOT AND HOW MANY ARE COMING IN.
GOT AND HOW MANY ARE COMING IN.
AND THESE WARS PRODUCED SO MANY AND THESE WARS PRODUCED SO MANY WOUNDED.
WOUNDED.
GENERATIONS AGO WOULD HAVE GENERATIONS AGO WOULD HAVE DIED.
DIED.
YOU GOT THESE YOUNG MEN AND YOU GOT THESE YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN COMING IN WHO NEED CARE.
WOMEN COMING IN WHO NEED CARE.
AND YOU STILL HAVE THE OLDER AND YOU STILL HAVE THE OLDER VETERANS WHO DO AS WELL.
VETERANS WHO DO AS WELL.
>> ON THE QUESTION OF SHINSEKI, >> ON THE QUESTION OF SHINSEKI, IS IT THAT HE'S DOING A GREAT IS IT THAT HE'S DOING A GREAT JOB TRYING TO FIX THIS OR THAT JOB TRYING TO FIX THIS OR THAT HE'S BLAMELESS?
HE'S BLAMELESS?
WHAT'S THE DEFENSE OF ERIC WHAT'S THE DEFENSE OF ERIC SHINSEKI?
SHINSEKI?
A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING HE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING HE SHOULD BE REMOVED.
SHOULD BE REMOVED.
>> THEY CERTAINLY ARE SAYING HE >> THEY CERTAINLY ARE SAYING HE SHOULD BE REMOVED.
SHOULD BE REMOVED.
ONE THING ABOBO GENERAL ONE THING ABOBO GENERAL SHINSEKI, AND I WILL SAY I'VE SHINSEKI, AND I WILL SAY I'VE KNOWN HIM FOR YEARS, AND HE'S KNOWN HIM FOR YEARS, AND HE'S GREATLY ADMIRED IN THE MILITARY GREATLY ADMIRED IN THE MILITARY AND DID SOME THINGS AS CHIEF OF AND DID SOME THINGS AS CHIEF OF STAFF OF THE ARMY.
STAFF OF THE ARMY.
HE'S VERY IMPASSIVE.
HE'S VERY IMPASSIVE.
IF YOU SAW HIM ON THE HILL HE'S IF YOU SAW HIM ON THE HILL HE'S VERY IMPASSIVE AND NEVER HAS A VERY IMPASSIVE AND NEVER HAS A LOT OF EMOTION WHEN -- WHEN HE LOT OF EMOTION WHEN -- WHEN HE SAID HE WAS MAD AS HELL HE SAID HE WAS MAD AS HELL HE MIGHT AS WELL HAVE BEEN SAYING MIGHT AS WELL HAVE BEEN SAYING I'M GOING NEXT DOOR TO THE I'M GOING NEXT DOOR TO THE COFFEE SHOP.
COFFEE SHOP.
THAT'S HIS PERSONALITY.
THAT'S HIS PERSONALITY.
HE DOES NOT REALLY ENGAGE WITH HE DOES NOT REALLY ENGAGE WITH THE PRESS.
THE PRESS.
HE DOESN'T LIKE TO DO THAT.
HE DOESN'T LIKE TO DO THAT.
I THINK PEOPLE OUT THERE MIGHT I THINK PEOPLE OUT THERE MIGHT BE SAYING, WHO CARES IF HE BE SAYING, WHO CARES IF HE DOESN'T ENGAGE WITH THE PRESS?
DOESN'T ENGAGE WITH THE PRESS?
WELL, YOU REALLY HAVE TO WELL, YOU REALLY HAVE TO CONVINCE PEOPLE WHAT YOU'RE CONVINCE PEOPLE WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
DOING.
YOU HAVE TO TALK TO THE PUBLIC.
YOU HAVE TO TALK TO THE PUBLIC.
IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT -- GWEN: YOU HAVE TO HAVE A GWEN: YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CONSTITUENCY.
CONSTITUENCY.
>> YOU HAVE TO HAVE A >> YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CONSTITUENCY AND I DON'T THINK CONSTITUENCY AND I DON'T THINK HE REALLY DOES.
HE REALLY DOES.
GWEN: WHAT DO VETERANS GROUPS GWEN: WHAT DO VETERANS GROUPS THINK ABOUT THIS?
THINK ABOUT THIS?
AND IS IT DIVIDED AND IS IT DIVIDED GENERATIONALLY?
GENERATIONALLY?
A LOT OF OLDER VETERANS THINK A LOT OF OLDER VETERANS THINK THAT VETERANS CARE IS THE BEST THAT VETERANS CARE IS THE BEST THING GOING.
THING GOING.
BUT I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S A BUT I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S A DIFFERENCE.
DIFFERENCE.
>> WELL, I THINK THE YOUNGER >> WELL, I THINK THE YOUNGER VETERANS, WE HAVE ALL DONE SO VETERANS, WE HAVE ALL DONE SO MANY STORIES ON THE YOUNGER MANY STORIES ON THE YOUNGER VETERANS AND TRYING TO CARE FOR VETERANS AND TRYING TO CARE FOR THOSE VETERANS.
THOSE VETERANS.
THE AMERICAN LEGION WANTS THE AMERICAN LEGION WANTS SHINSEKI OUT.
SHINSEKI OUT.
THEY'VE HAD IT.
THEY'VE HAD IT.
BECAUSE IF YOU GO BACK, A YEAR, BECAUSE IF YOU GO BACK, A YEAR, TWO YEARS, IT'S STILL A TWO YEARS, IT'S STILL A PROBLEM.
PROBLEM.
THERE WAS STILL A PROBLEM THEN.
THERE WAS STILL A PROBLEM THEN.
AND WHILE THEY HAVE MADE AND WHILE THEY HAVE MADE PROGRESS, IT JUST HASN'T MOVED PROGRESS, IT JUST HASN'T MOVED FAST ENOUGH TO KEEP UP WITH FAST ENOUGH TO KEEP UP WITH THOSE WHO DESPERATELY NEED THOSE WHO DESPERATELY NEED CARE.
CARE.
GWEN: THANK YOU, MARTHA.
GWEN: THANK YOU, MARTHA.
WE WILL BE WATCHING THAT.
WE WILL BE WATCHING THAT.
ONE OF THE POLITICALLY PUZZLING ONE OF THE POLITICALLY PUZZLING QUESTIONS AFOOT IN WASHINGTON QUESTIONS AFOOT IN WASHINGTON IS WHY, IF IT IS TRUE, THAT THE IS WHY, IF IT IS TRUE, THAT THE NATION IS GETTING BROWNER AND NATION IS GETTING BROWNER AND BROWNER, CONGRESS IS HAVING BROWNER, CONGRESS IS HAVING SUCH A HARD TIME PASSING EVEN SUCH A HARD TIME PASSING EVEN NONCOMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION NONCOMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM.
REFORM.
THE LONG ANSWER IS LAWMAKERS THE LONG ANSWER IS LAWMAKERS HAVE TO BELIEVE THEY HAVE HAVE TO BELIEVE THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO GAIN.
THE SHORT ANSWER, IS JOHN THE SHORT ANSWER, IS JOHN BOEHNER.
BOEHNER.
JOHN HARWOOD WROTE THIS WEEK JOHN HARWOOD WROTE THIS WEEK THAT AT LEAST THE POSSIBILITY THAT AT LEAST THE POSSIBILITY OF A DEAL MAY NOT BE COMPLETELY OF A DEAL MAY NOT BE COMPLETELY DEAD.
DEAD.
YET.
YET.
REALLY?
REALLY?
>> REALLY.
NOW, THAT'S NOT ANOTHER WAY OF NOW, THAT'S NOT ANOTHER WAY OF PREDICTING THAT IT'S GOING TO PREDICTING THAT IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
HAPPEN.
BUT I THINK THERE IS A BUT I THINK THERE IS A POSSIBILITY OF IT HAPPENING AND POSSIBILITY OF IT HAPPENING AND HERE'S WHY.
HERE'S WHY.
YOU MENTIONED THAT THE COUNTRY YOU MENTIONED THAT THE COUNTRY IS GETTING BROWNER.
IS GETTING BROWNER.
THAT'S DEFINITELY TRUE.
THAT'S DEFINITELY TRUE.
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, HOWEVER, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, HOWEVER, IS NOT.
IS NOT.
THIS IS A PARTY THAT'S THIS IS A PARTY THAT'S DOMINATED BY OLDER WHITES.
DOMINATED BY OLDER WHITES.
AND SO THERE'S VERY GRAVE AND SO THERE'S VERY GRAVE DIFFICULTY MOVING THAT PARTY, DIFFICULTY MOVING THAT PARTY, MANY OF THEIR MEMBERS LOOK AT MANY OF THEIR MEMBERS LOOK AT IMMIGRATION REFORM AS SOMETHING IMMIGRATION REFORM AS SOMETHING THAT IN EFFECT LICENSES MORE THAT IN EFFECT LICENSES MORE PEOPLE TO COME INTO THE PEOPLE TO COME INTO THE COUNTRY, CHANGE THE CULTURE OF COUNTRY, CHANGE THE CULTURE OF THEIR COMMUNITIES IN WAYS THAT THEIR COMMUNITIES IN WAYS THAT FEEL THREATENING TO THEM.
FEEL THREATENING TO THEM.
BUT JOHN BOEHNER KNOWS LIKE BUT JOHN BOEHNER KNOWS LIKE MANY REPUBLICAN STRATEGISTS MANY REPUBLICAN STRATEGISTS KNOW THAT IF THEY DON'T DO KNOW THAT IF THEY DON'T DO SOMETHING BIG ABOUT THIS SOMETHING BIG ABOUT THIS PROBLEM, THAT THEY'RE FATED TO PROBLEM, THAT THEY'RE FATED TO HAVE DIFFICULTY IN PRESIDENTIAL HAVE DIFFICULTY IN PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS AS FAR AS THE EYE CAN ELECTIONS AS FAR AS THE EYE CAN SEE.
SEE.
IT'S NOT SUCH A BIG ISSUE IN IT'S NOT SUCH A BIG ISSUE IN MID TERMS.
MID TERMS.
BECAUSE OLDER WHITES VOTE AT BECAUSE OLDER WHITES VOTE AT HEAVIER RATES THAN HISPANICS, HEAVIER RATES THAN HISPANICS, FOR EXAMPLE, DO IN MID TERMS.
FOR EXAMPLE, DO IN MID TERMS.
BUT IN PRESIDENTIAL RACES, THAT BUT IN PRESIDENTIAL RACES, THAT CONSTITUENCY IS ONLY GOING TO CONSTITUENCY IS ONLY GOING TO GET BIGGER.
GET BIGGER.
SO THE QUESTION IS, CAN JOHN SO THE QUESTION IS, CAN JOHN BOEHNER FIGURE OUT A WAY AND A BOEHNER FIGURE OUT A WAY AND A MOMENT TO MOVE HIS CAUCUS, MOMENT TO MOVE HIS CAUCUS, ENOUGH OF HIS CAUCUS TO ACCEPT ENOUGH OF HIS CAUCUS TO ACCEPT THIS HAPPENING?
THIS HAPPENING?
PERHAPS EVEN TO GET A PERHAPS EVEN TO GET A CONFERENCE STARTED THAT CONFERENCE STARTED THAT FINISHES AFTER THE ELECTION.
FINISHES AFTER THE ELECTION.
THEN THAT IS THE WINDOW FOR HIM THEN THAT IS THE WINDOW FOR HIM CUTTING SOME SORT OF A DEAL CUTTING SOME SORT OF A DEAL WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA AND THE WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS.
DEMOCRATS.
GWEN: SOUNDS LIKE A ROCK AND GWEN: SOUNDS LIKE A ROCK AND HARD PLACE THE DEMOCRATS ARE HARD PLACE THE DEMOCRATS ARE HAPPY TO SEE HIM IN.
HAPPY TO SEE HIM IN.
>> DEMOCRATS LOVE THIS DILEMMA.
>> DEMOCRATS LOVE THIS DILEMMA.
AND DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO AND DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO DRIVE A HARD BARGAIN.
DRIVE A HARD BARGAIN.
THEY GOTTEN A BILL THROUGH THE THEY GOTTEN A BILL THROUGH THE SENATE AND THEY HAD A SENATE AND THEY HAD A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER, FEWER THAN SIGNIFICANT NUMBER, FEWER THAN 20 BUT A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF 20 BUT A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF REPUBLICAN SENATORS INCLUDING REPUBLICAN SENATORS INCLUDING MARCO RUBIO E. THE PRESIDENTIAL MARCO RUBIO E. THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, SO THEY'VE GOT CANDIDATE, SO THEY'VE GOT SOMETHING ON THE TABLE WHICH SOMETHING ON THE TABLE WHICH WOULD PROVIDE A PATH TO WOULD PROVIDE A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP.
CITIZENSHIP.
THOUGH A LONG ONE FOR THOSE 11 THOUGH A LONG ONE FOR THOSE 11 MILLION UNDOCUMENTED ALREADY MILLION UNDOCUMENTED ALREADY HERE.
HERE.
AND THEY'RE GOING TO INSIST ON AND THEY'RE GOING TO INSIST ON SOMETHING THAT LEGALIZES THOSE SOMETHING THAT LEGALIZES THOSE PEOPLE.
PEOPLE.
AND THAT'S THE TOUGH ISSUE TO AND THAT'S THE TOUGH ISSUE TO GET OVER FOR JOHN BOEHNER.
GET OVER FOR JOHN BOEHNER.
HE SAID TAKE A STEP BY STEP HE SAID TAKE A STEP BY STEP APPROACH.
APPROACH.
THERE'S SOME BILLS THAT HAVE THERE'S SOME BILLS THAT HAVE MOVED THROUGH COMMITTEE IN THE MOVED THROUGH COMMITTEE IN THE HOUSE.
HOUSE.
BUT NONE'S REACHED THE FLOOR BUT NONE'S REACHED THE FLOOR AND THE QUESTION IS, IS HE AND THE QUESTION IS, IS HE GOING TO PUT ONE ON THE FLOOR?
GOING TO PUT ONE ON THE FLOOR?
GWEN: MOUG A -- MOUG A WINDOW?
GWEN: MOUG A -- MOUG A WINDOW?
>> THROUGH MID SEPTEMBER.
>> THROUGH MID SEPTEMBER.
THE CONGRESS IS GOING TO THE CONGRESS IS GOING TO ADJOURN IN EARLY OCTOBER TO GO ADJOURN IN EARLY OCTOBER TO GO CAMPAIGN.
CAMPAIGN.
YOU GOT LEGISLATIVE TIME IN YOU GOT LEGISLATIVE TIME IN JUNE AND JULY AND THEN AUGUST JUNE AND JULY AND THEN AUGUST RECESS A FEW WEEKS BEGINNING IN RECESS A FEW WEEKS BEGINNING IN SEPTEMEMR AND TAKES ONE OF SEPTEMEMR AND TAKES ONE OF THOSE SMALL BILLS THAT HE'S THOSE SMALL BILLS THAT HE'S GOT, OR MORE, A COUPLE OF THEM, GOT, OR MORE, A COUPLE OF THEM, THERE'S FOUR THAT HAVE MOVED THERE'S FOUR THAT HAVE MOVED THROUGH COMMITTEE, PUT THEM ON THROUGH COMMITTEE, PUT THEM ON THE FLOOR.
THE FLOOR.
THEN YOU COULD BEGIN A THEN YOU COULD BEGIN A NEGOTIATION WITH THE SENATE NEGOTIATION WITH THE SENATE THAT MIGHT JUST HAPPEN TO CULMINATE IN NOVEMBER AFTER CULMINATE IN NOVEMBER AFTER THAT ELECTION'S OVER AND MAYBE THAT ELECTION'S OVER AND MAYBE THEY COULD GET SOMETHING THEY COULD GET SOMETHING THROUGH THEN.
THROUGH THEN.
>> WHAT DOES THIS TELL US ABOUT >> WHAT DOES THIS TELL US ABOUT JOHN BOEHNER AS A LEADER?
JOHN BOEHNER AS A LEADER?
HE'S GOT TO MAKE A CALL HERE.
HE'S GOT TO MAKE A CALL HERE.
WHAT WILL WE LEARN WHETHER HE WHAT WILL WE LEARN WHETHER HE MAKES THE CALL OR IF HE DOESN'T MAKES THE CALL OR IF HE DOESN'T MAKE THE CALL?
MAKE THE CALL?
>> IF HE MAKES THIS CALL, IT'S >> IF HE MAKES THIS CALL, IT'S SOMETHING THAT HE HAS NOT BEEN SOMETHING THAT HE HAS NOT BEEN WILLING TO DO IN HIS WILLING TO DO IN HIS SPEAKERSHIP SO FAR.
SPEAKERSHIP SO FAR.
THE ONLY TIMES THAT HE'SEN THE ONLY TIMES THAT HE'SEN WILLING TO REALLY CHALLENGE WILLING TO REALLY CHALLENGE STRONG OPINION IN HIS BASE HAVE STRONG OPINION IN HIS BASE HAVE BEEN IN CASES WHERE HE HAD NO BEEN IN CASES WHERE HE HAD NO ALTERNATIVE.
ALTERNATIVE.
THE FISCAL CLIFF AT THE END OF THE FISCAL CLIFF AT THE END OF 2012.
2012.
TAXES WERE GOING TO GO UP FOR TAXES WERE GOING TO GO UP FOR EVERYBODY.
EVERYBODY.
HE HAD TO DO SOMETHING.
HE HAD TO DO SOMETHING.
SO THIS WOULD BE THE KIND OF SO THIS WOULD BE THE KIND OF THING THAT YOU WOULD DO IF YOU THING THAT YOU WOULD DO IF YOU KNEW THAT YOUR TIME AS SPEAKER KNEW THAT YOUR TIME AS SPEAKER WAS SHORT AND YOYOWANTED TO WAS SHORT AND YOYOWANTED TO ACCOMPLISH SOMETHING GREAT AND LASTING AND HISTORIC.
LASTING AND HISTORIC.
THAT MIGHT BE THE MOTIVE FOR THAT MIGHT BE THE MOTIVE FOR HIM TO WORK HARDER, PRESS HIM TO WORK HARDER, PRESS HARDER THAN HE'S BEEN WILLING HARDER THAN HE'S BEEN WILLING TO DO AS SPEAKER SO FAR.
TO DO AS SPEAKER SO FAR.
>> WHY IS THIS SO HARD?
>> WHY IS THIS SO HARD?
WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE ENOUGH WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE ENOUGH VOTES FOR IT IN THE HOUSE.
VOTES FOR IT IN THE HOUSE.
AND IT HASN'T BEEN AN ISSUE IN AND IT HASN'T BEEN AN ISSUE IN A LOT OF REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES.
A LOT OF REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES.
WHY NOT JUST DO IT?
WHY NOT JUST DO IT?
>> 233 REPUBLICANS IN THE >> 233 REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE, 12 OPPOSED JOHN BOEHNER HOUSE, 12 OPPOSED JOHN BOEHNER WHEN HE WAS INSTALLED AS WHEN HE WAS INSTALLED AS SPEAKER IN EARLY 2013.
SPEAKER IN EARLY 2013.
IT DOESN'T TAKE MANY MORE IT DOESN'T TAKE MANY MORE DEFECTIONS TO ELIMINATE HIS DEFECTIONS TO ELIMINATE HIS MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE OF MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
REPRESENTATIVES.
IF YOU BELIEVE AND HIS STAFF IF YOU BELIEVE AND HIS STAFF SAYS THEY EXPECT HIM TO BE THE SAYS THEY EXPECT HIM TO BE THE SPEAKER, HE SAID THAT THIS SPEAKER, HE SAID THAT THIS WEEK, HE EXPECTS TO BE THE WEEK, HE EXPECTS TO BE THE SPEAKER NEXT YEAR, HE CAN'T SPEAKER NEXT YEAR, HE CAN'T AFFORD MANY MORE DEFECTIONS.
AFFORD MANY MORE DEFECTIONS.
SO EVEN A RELATIVELY SMALL SO EVEN A RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE DECIDING THAT NUMBER OF PEOPLE DECIDING THAT JOHN BOEHNER IS TAKING OUR JOHN BOEHNER IS TAKING OUR PARTY, A PLACE WHERE WE DON'T PARTY, A PLACE WHERE WE DON'T WANT TO GO, COULD OUST HIM.
WANT TO GO, COULD OUST HIM.
GWEN: INCLUDING IT SHOULD BE GWEN: INCLUDING IT SHOULD BE SAID HIS DEPUTY, WHO -- ERIC SAID HIS DEPUTY, WHO -- ERIC CANTOR WHO'S FACING A CHALLENGE CANTOR WHO'S FACING A CHALLENGE FROM THE RIGHT IN VIRGINIA.
FROM THE RIGHT IN VIRGINIA.
BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT SOMETHING THAT TOM DONAHUE, THE SOMETHING THAT TOM DONAHUE, THE HEAD OF THE CHAMBER OF HEAD OF THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, NOT KNOWN AS A LEFT COMMERCE, NOT KNOWN AS A LEFT WING ORGANIZATION.
WING ORGANIZATION.
SAID THIS WEEK WHICH IS THE SAID THIS WEEK WHICH IS THE REPUBLICANS CAN'T GET THEIR ACT REPUBLICANS CAN'T GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER ON IMMIGRATION RORM EF TOGETHER ON IMMIGRATION RORM EF THEY MIGHT AS WELL NOT RUN IN THEY MIGHT AS WELL NOT RUN IN 2016.
2016. .
.
>> THAT'S THE SHARP VERSION OF >> THAT'S THE SHARP VERSION OF WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT BEFORE.
BEFORE.
THAT LONG-TERM PRESIDENTIAL THAT LONG-TERM PRESIDENTIAL PROBLEM.
PROBLEM.
IN FACT, ONE OF THE FORMER TOP IN FACT, ONE OF THE FORMER TOP AIDES TO DENNY HASTERT, JOHN AIDES TO DENNY HASTERT, JOHN BOEHNER'S PREDECESSOR AS BOEHNER'S PREDECESSOR AS REPUBLICAN SAKERPE, SAID IF WE REPUBLICAN SAKERPE, SAID IF WE DON'T PASS IMMIGRATION REFORM DON'T PASS IMMIGRATION REFORM THIS YEAR, WE WON'T WIN ANY OF THIS YEAR, WE WON'T WIN ANY OF THE NEXT THREE PRESIDENTIAL THE NEXT THREE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS.
ELECTIONS.
BECAUSE THAT CONSTITUENCY IS BECAUSE THAT CONSTITUENCY IS GOING TO GET SO BIG AND THEY'RE GOING TO GET SO BIG AND THEY'RE GOING TO DEVELOP IN THEIR GUT A GOING TO DEVELOP IN THEIR GUT A FEELING THAT THESE REPUBLICANS FEELING THAT THESE REPUBLICANS ARE NOT ON THEIR SIDE.
ARE NOT ON THEIR SIDE.
GWEN: BOY, IT'S AMAZING.
GWEN: BOY, IT'S AMAZING.
REALLY ROCK AND HARD PLACE.
REALLY ROCK AND HARD PLACE.
OK, AS PRIMARY SEASON BEGINS TO OK, AS PRIMARY SEASON BEGINS TO UNSPOOL IN STATES AROUND THE UNSPOOL IN STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY WE ARE ON THE HUNT FOR COUNTRY WE ARE ON THE HUNT FOR SIGNS.
SIGNS.
SIGNS OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO SIGNS OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO CONTROL.
CONTROL.
SENATE.
SENATE.
AND IN GENERAL, ABOUT THE AND IN GENERAL, ABOUT THE HEALTH AND WELFARE OF THE HEALTH AND WELFARE OF THE REPUBLICAN AND THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLICAN AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTIES.
PARTIES.
BUT WEEK BY WEEK, WE GET MIXED BUT WEEK BY WEEK, WE GET MIXED MESSAGES.
MESSAGES.
THE LATEST COMES FROM NEBRASKA.
THE LATEST COMES FROM NEBRASKA.
WHERE THE NEW REPUBLICAN SENATE WHERE THE NEW REPUBLICAN SENATE NOMINEE HAS BEEN PEGGED AS A NOMINEE HAS BEEN PEGGED AS A TEA PARTY CANDIDATE.
TEA PARTY CANDIDATE.
BUT MOLLY BALL WRITES THAT AS BUT MOLLY BALL WRITES THAT AS IS OFTEN THE CASE, THE LABEL IS OFTEN THE CASE, THE LABEL DOESN'T TELL IT ALL.
DOESN'T TELL IT ALL.
MOLLY?
MOLLY?
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH.
I THINK WE WENT INTO THIS I THINK WE WENT INTO THIS REPUBLICAN PRIMARY SEASON REPUBLICAN PRIMARY SEASON CONDITIONED BY 2010 AND 2012 TO CONDITIONED BY 2010 AND 2012 TO THINK WE KNOW WHAT THE PATTERN THINK WE KNOW WHAT THE PATTERN IS.
IS.
THERE'S GOING TO BE A SORT OF THERE'S GOING TO BE A SORT OF ESTABLISHMENT CANDIDATE WHO HAS ESTABLISHMENT CANDIDATE WHO HAS MAYBE COME UP THROUGH ELECTED MAYBE COME UP THROUGH ELECTED OFFICE.
OFFICE.
AND HAS THE RESUME AND IS -- AND HAS THE RESUME AND IS -- USED TO CUTTING DEALS TO GET USED TO CUTTING DEALS TO GET THINGS DONE.
THINGS DONE.
AND THEN THERE'S GOING TO BE AND THEN THERE'S GOING TO BE THIS TEA PARTY CHALLENGER WITH THIS TEA PARTY CHALLENGER WITH MAYBE SOME FRINGE VIEWS BUT A MAYBE SOME FRINGE VIEWS BUT A LOT OF NATIONAL SUPPORT FROM LOT OF NATIONAL SUPPORT FROM CONSERVATIVES ONLINE AND SO ON.
CONSERVATIVES ONLINE AND SO ON.
BUT THAT DYNAMIC CAN'T BE BUT THAT DYNAMIC CAN'T BE IMPOSED ON EVERY RACE.
IMPOSED ON EVERY RACE.
AND NEBRASKA IS REALLY AND NEBRASKA IS REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE THE INTERESTING BECAUSE THE CANDIDATE WHO ENDED UP WINNING CANDIDATE WHO ENDED UP WINNING AND WHO IS VERY LIKELY TO BE AND WHO IS VERY LIKELY TO BE THE NEXT SENATOR FROM NEBRASKA, THE NEXT SENATOR FROM NEBRASKA, BEN SASSE.
BEN SASSE.
>> WHO IS HE?
>> WHO IS HE?
>> HE IS -- ON PAPER, HE LOOKS >> HE IS -- ON PAPER, HE LOOKS LIKE THE CONSUMMATE INSIDER.
LIKE THE CONSUMMATE INSIDER.
HE IS THE -- HE'S A UNIVERSITY HE IS THE -- HE'S A UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT IN NEBRASKA.
PRESIDENT IN NEBRASKA.
BEFORE THAT, HE HELD A COUPLE BEFORE THAT, HE HELD A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT POSTS IN THE BUSH OF DIFFERENT POSTS IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.
ADMINISTRATION.
HE GOT'S DEGREES FROM HARVARD HE GOT'S DEGREES FROM HARVARD AND YALE.
AND YALE.
SO THIS IS SOMEONE WHO'S VERY SO THIS IS SOMEONE WHO'S VERY PEDIGREED.
PEDIGREED.
AND HE HAS STYLED HIMSELF AS AND HE HAS STYLED HIMSELF AS SORT OF A WONK, A NERD.
SORT OF A WONK, A NERD.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, HE'S BUT AT THE SAME TIME, HE'S PROVEN VERY PERSUASIVE TO THAT PROVEN VERY PERSUASIVE TO THAT HARD RIGHT.
HARD RIGHT.
HE GOT THE ENDORSEMENT OF TED HE GOT THE ENDORSEMENT OF TED CRUZ.
CRUZ.
AND SARA PALIN.
AND SARA PALIN.
AND A WHOLE LOT OF THESE RIGHT AND A WHOLE LOT OF THESE RIGHT WING TEA PARTYUPS.
WING TEA PARTYUPS.
HIS OPPONENT WAS THE STATE HIS OPPONENT WAS THE STATE TREASURER AND ALSO SOMEONE WITH TREASURER AND ALSO SOMEONE WITH A HISTORY IN ELECTED OFFICE.
A HISTORY IN ELECTED OFFICE.
ALSO SOMEONE WHO WAS TRYING TO ALSO SOMEONE WHO WAS TRYING TO STYLE HIMSELF AS THE MOST STYLE HIMSELF AS THE MOST CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATE AND AS CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATE AND AS AN OUTCIDER.
AN OUTCIDER.
BUT ALSO HAD A BIT OF A BUT ALSO HAD A BIT OF A PEDIGREE.
PEDIGREE.
SO SORT OF A MIXED PICTURE.
SO SORT OF A MIXED PICTURE.
THE TEA PARTY IS CLAIMING A WIN THE TEA PARTY IS CLAIMING A WIN BECAUSE THEY WERE MOSTLY ON BECAUSE THEY WERE MOSTLY ON SASSE'S SIDE BUT A LOT DIDN'T SASSE'S SIDE BUT A LOT DIDN'T GET THERE UNTIL AFTER HE WAS GET THERE UNTIL AFTER HE WAS WINNING.
WINNING.
GWEN: WHAT WOULD HE BE LIKE IN GWEN: WHAT WOULD HE BE LIKE IN OFFICE?
OFFICE?
WOULD HE REPRESENT -- WOULD HE REPRESENT -- >> THE TEA PARTY, WHAT DO YOU >> THE TEA PARTY, WHAT DO YOU THINK HE WOULD BE LIKE?
THINK HE WOULD BE LIKE?
GWEN: MORE TED CRUZ OR JACK GWEN: MORE TED CRUZ OR JACK KEMP?
KEMP?
>> AND JACK KEMP IS WHO HE SAYS >> AND JACK KEMP IS WHO HE SAYS HIS ROLE MODEL IS.
HIS ROLE MODEL IS.
SO IN HIS ACCEPTANCE SPEECH, SO IN HIS ACCEPTANCE SPEECH, ACCEPTING THE NOMINATION, ON ACCEPTING THE NOMINATION, ON TUESDAY NIGHT, HE TALKED ABOUT TUESDAY NIGHT, HE TALKED ABOUT JACK KEMP A LOT.
JACK KEMP A LOT.
HE TALKED A AUT FINDING HE TALKED A AUT FINDING CONSERVATIVE SOLUTIONS TO CONSERVATIVE SOLUTIONS TO PROBLEMS.
PROBLEMS.
AND SAYING IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND SAYING IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO OPPOSE BAD IDEAS.
TO OPPOSE BAD IDEAS.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR OWN GOOD YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR OWN GOOD IDEAS.
IDEAS.
HE'S BEEN CAMPAIGNING VERY HARD HE'S BEEN CAMPAIGNING VERY HARD IN NEBRASKA ON HIS PROPOSALS TO IN NEBRASKA ON HIS PROPOSALS TO REPLACE OBAMACARE.
REPLACE OBAMACARE.
SO HE VERY MUCH WANTS TO FUSE, SO HE VERY MUCH WANTS TO FUSE, I THINK, THE SORT OF TED CRUZ I THINK, THE SORT OF TED CRUZ AND MITCH MCCONNELL WINGS OF AND MITCH MCCONNELL WINGS OF THE PARTY.
THE PARTY.
EVEN THOUGH MITCH MCCONNELL EVEN THOUGH MITCH MCCONNELL SORT OF WAS LINKED TO SOME SORT OF WAS LINKED TO SOME GROUPS THAT OPPOSED SASSE IN GROUPS THAT OPPOSED SASSE IN THIS PRIMARY, HE SPOKE TO THIS PRIMARY, HE SPOKE TO MCCONNELL ON TUESDAY NIGHT.
MCCONNELL ON TUESDAY NIGHT.
HE SAID HE WILL SUPPORT HE SAID HE WILL SUPPORT MCCONNELL FOR LEADER.
MCCONNELL FOR LEADER.
AND SO HE CLEARLY WANTS TO AND SO HE CLEARLY WANTS TO BRIDGE THAT DIVIDE.
BRIDGE THAT DIVIDE.
>> MOLLY, ARE WE LOOK AT A >> MOLLY, ARE WE LOOK AT A SITUATION WHERE THE SITUATION WHERE THE ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICANS HAVE ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICANS HAVE MOVED SO FAR TO THE RIGHT THAT MOVED SO FAR TO THE RIGHT THAT YOU CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE YOU CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM AND THE TWO BETWEEN THEM AND THE TWO PARTIES AND THE TEA PARTY PARTIES AND THE TEA PARTY ANYWAY?
ANYWAY?
SIMILAR THING CAME UP IN NORTH SIMILAR THING CAME UP IN NORTH CAROLINA WHEN TOM TILLIS GOT CAROLINA WHEN TOM TILLIS GOT NOMINATED.
NOMINATED.
VERY CONSERVATIVE HOUSE VERY CONSERVATIVE HOUSE SPKER.EA SPKER.EA AND THE -- RAND PAUL BACKED TEA AND THE -- RAND PAUL BACKED TEA PARTY CANDIDATE COULDN'T GET PARTY CANDIDATE COULDN'T GET ANY TRACTION.
ANY TRACTION.
BUT HAVE THEY MERGED?
BUT HAVE THEY MERGED?
>> WELL, IN A WAY THEY HAVE.
>> WELL, IN A WAY THEY HAVE.
I THINK IT'S A COMBINATION OF I THINK IT'S A COMBINATION OF THINGS.
THINGS.
YOU'RE SAYING THE ESTABLISHMENT YOU'RE SAYING THE ESTABLISHMENT HAS CHANGED.
HAS CHANGED.
AND I AGREE.
AND I AGREE.
THE ESTABLISHMENT HAS MOVED TO THE ESTABLISHMENT HAS MOVED TO MEET THE TEA PARTY WHERE THEY MEET THE TEA PARTY WHERE THEY ARE.
ARE.
BUT IT'S ALSO TRUE THAT THE TEA BUT IT'S ALSO TRUE THAT THE TEA PARTY'S GOTTEN SMARTER.
PARTY'S GOTTEN SMARTER.
THE TEA PARTY'S GOTTEN MORE THE TEA PARTY'S GOTTEN MORE STRATEGIC.
STRATEGIC.
THE TEA PARTY IS MUCH LESS THE TEA PARTY IS MUCH LESS POPULAR NOW THAN THEY WERE IN POPULAR NOW THAN THEY WERE IN 2010 OR 2012 EVEN AMONG 2010 OR 2012 EVEN AMONG REPUBLICANS A MAJORITY SAY THEY REPUBLICANS A MAJORITY SAY THEY DON'T SUPPORT THE TEA PARTY.
DON'T SUPPORT THE TEA PARTY.
AND SO THE TEA PARTY HAS HAD TO AND SO THE TEA PARTY HAS HAD TO BECOME SAVVIER TO SORT OF REBUT BECOME SAVVIER TO SORT OF REBUT THIS REPUTATION THAT THEY'VE THIS REPUTATION THAT THEY'VE ACQUIRED OF BACKING LOSERS.
ACQUIRED OF BACKING LOSERS.
AND SO I THINK YOU SEE THAT THE AND SO I THINK YOU SEE THAT THE ESTABLISHMENT MOVING IN THE TEA ESTABLISHMENT MOVING IN THE TEA PARTY'S DIRECTION BUT ALSO THE PARTY'S DIRECTION BUT ALSO THE TEA PARTY GRATCH TATING -- TEA PARTY GRATCH TATING -- GRAVITATING A LITTLE BIT.
GRAVITATING A LITTLE BIT.
>> THE DEMOCRATS HAD HOPED >> THE DEMOCRATS HAD HOPED THESE PRIMARIES WOULD HAVE THESE PRIMARIES WOULD HAVE CIVIL WAR FIGHTS BETWEEN THE CIVIL WAR FIGHTS BETWEEN THE TEA PARTY AND ESTABLISHMENT IN TEA PARTY AND ESTABLISHMENT IN HOPES OF CREATING HE BEARSING HOPES OF CREATING HE BEARSING SITUATIONS.
SITUATIONS.
HAS THAT HAPPENED YET AND DO WE HAS THAT HAPPENED YET AND DO WE SEE IT HAPPENING AS THESE SEE IT HAPPENING AS THESE PRIMARIES PLAYAY OUT ON THE PRIMARIES PLAYAY OUT ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE?
REPUBLICAN SIDE?
>> WELL, THESE PRIMARY CONTESTS >> WELL, THESE PRIMARY CONTESTS EVEN IF THE CANDIDATE WHO'S EVEN IF THE CANDIDATE WHO'S SEEN AS THE MOST ELECTABLE ENDS SEEN AS THE MOST ELECTABLE ENDS UP WINNING THEY'RE STILL VERY UP WINNING THEY'RE STILL VERY DRAINING AND TAKE A LOT OF DRAINING AND TAKE A LOT OF MONEY THESE FIGHTS.
MONEY THESE FIGHTS.
THE CANDIDATES GET BEATEN UP THE CANDIDATES GET BEATEN UP AND BLOODIED.
AND BLOODIED.
AND THERE ARE STILL SOME ON THE AND THERE ARE STILL SOME ON THE HORIZON THAT LOOK VERY HORIZON THAT LOOK VERY DIVISIVE.
DIVISIVE.
THIS COMING TUESDAY IN GEORGIA, THIS COMING TUESDAY IN GEORGIA, IS A FIVE-WAY SORT OF IS A FIVE-WAY SORT OF FREE-FOR-ALL.
FREE-FOR-ALL.
HOWEVER, THE CANDIDATES THAT HOWEVER, THE CANDIDATES THAT THE DEMOCRATS WOULD HAVE MOST THE DEMOCRATS WOULD HAVE MOST LIKE TO SEE WIN THAT THEY SAW LIKE TO SEE WIN THAT THEY SAW AS THE FURTHEST TO THE RIGHT AS THE FURTHEST TO THE RIGHT AND LEAST ELECTABLE, THEY HAVE AND LEAST ELECTABLE, THEY HAVE SORT OF FALLEN IN THE POLLS.
SORT OF FALLEN IN THE POLLS.
AND THE MOSTST ESTABLISHMENT AND THE MOSTST ESTABLISHMENT ORIENTED CANDIDATES HAVE RISEN.
ORIENTED CANDIDATES HAVE RISEN.
SO MITCH MCCONNELL'S PRIMARY.
SO MITCH MCCONNELL'S PRIMARY.
>> WHAT ABOUT MISSISSIPPI?
>> WHAT ABOUT MISSISSIPPI?
>> MISSISSIPPI, IT SEEMS LIKE >> MISSISSIPPI, IT SEEMS LIKE THAD COCHRAN'S TEA PARTY THAD COCHRAN'S TEA PARTY CHALLENGER AND THAT'S NOT A CHALLENGER AND THAT'S NOT A WHILE SO WE WON'T KNOW BUT THAD WHILE SO WE WON'T KNOW BUT THAD COCHRAN'S CHALLENGER HAS SUNK COCHRAN'S CHALLENGER HAS SUNK AND MITCH MCCONNELL LOOKS LIKE AND MITCH MCCONNELL LOOKS LIKE HE WILL RUN N AY WITH THE HE WILL RUN N AY WITH THE PRIMARY.
PRIMARY.
>> DIDN'T NEBRASKA USED TO >> DIDN'T NEBRASKA USED TO ELECT DEMOCRATS?
ELECT DEMOCRATS?
AND THE GOVERNOR IS MORE AND THE GOVERNOR IS MORE CONSERVATIVE THAN THEIR SENATE CONSERVATIVE THAN THEIR SENATE CANDIDATE.
CANDIDATE.
>> NEBRASKA IS AN INTERESTING >> NEBRASKA IS AN INTERESTING PLACE.
PLACE.
IT'S SIMILAR TO A LOT OF STATES IT'S SIMILAR TO A LOT OF STATES THAT MAYBE USED TO ELECT THAT MAYBE USED TO ELECT CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS.
CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS.
AND NOW ELECTS CONSERVATIVE AND NOW ELECTS CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS.
REPUBLICANS.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THE STATE I DON'T KNOW THAT THE STATE USED TO BE LIBERAL.
USED TO BE LIBERAL.
BUT THERE IS ALSO AN BUT THERE IS ALSO AN INTERESTING TRADITION IN STATES INTERESTING TRADITION IN STATES LIKE NEBRASKA.
LIKE NEBRASKA.
AND I'M FROM OUT WEST.
AND I'M FROM OUT WEST.
ALTHOUGH I'M FROM NEBRASKA'S ALTHOUGH I'M FROM NEBRASKA'S OPPONENT COLORADO.
OPPONENT COLORADO.
NEBRASKA IS A NICER NEIGHBOR.
NEBRASKA IS A NICER NEIGHBOR.
BUT THERE IS A SORT OF BUT THERE IS A SORT OF TRADITION OF PRAIRIE POPULISM TRADITION OF PRAIRIE POPULISM IN A LOT OF THESE STATES AND A IN A LOT OF THESE STATES AND A LIBERTARIAN STREAK.
LIBERTARIAN STREAK.
I THINK THE CONSERVATIVES YOU I THINK THE CONSERVATIVES YOU ELECT OUT OF A PLACE LIKE ELECT OUT OF A PLACE LIKE NEBRASKA IS GOING TO BE NEBRASKA IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT THAN THE KIND OF TEA DIFFERENT THAN THE KIND OF TEA PARTY CANDIDATE YOU'LL GET OUT PARTY CANDIDATE YOU'LL GET OUT OF GEORGIA.
OF GEORGIA.
GWEN: OK. GWEN: OK.
THANKS.
THANKS.
NOW FOR THE LATEST CHAPTER IN NOW FOR THE LATEST CHAPTER IN OUR FAVORITE POLITICAL SOAP OUR FAVORITE POLITICAL SOAP OPERA.
OPERA.
AS THE CLINTONS TURN.
AS THE CLINTONS TURN.
HILLARY CLINTON'S VISIBILITY HILLARY CLINTON'S VISIBILITY HAS TAKEN A SHARP UPTICK IN HAS TAKEN A SHARP UPTICK IN RECENT WEEKS.
RECENT WEEKS.
AND WE HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING HER AND WE HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING HER COY AVOINS OF THE -- AVOIDANCE COY AVOINS OF THE -- AVOIDANCE OF THE QUESTION EVERYBODY ASKS OF THE QUESTION EVERYBODY ASKS AND EVEN BARBARA WALTERS ASKED AND EVEN BARBARA WALTERS ASKED ON "THE VIEW" AND KARL ROVE DID ON "THE VIEW" AND KARL ROVE DID HER A FAVOR AND QUESTIONED HER A FAVOR AND QUESTIONED WHETHER BECAUSE OF HER HEALTH WHETHER BECAUSE OF HER HEALTH SHE'S UP TO THE JOB OF SHE'S UP TO THE JOB OF PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT.
AND I ASKED BILL CLINTON THAT AND I ASKED BILL CLINTON THAT QUESTION THIS WEEK AND HE WAS QUESTION THIS WEEK AND HE WAS ONLY TOO HAPPY TO ANSWER.
ONLY TOO HAPPY TO ANSWER.
>> I HAVE TO GIVE HIM THAT >> I HAVE TO GIVE HIM THAT CREDIT.
CREDIT.
THAT EMBODIES THAT OLD SAYING THAT EMBODIES THAT OLD SAYING THAT CONSISTENCY IS THE THAT CONSISTENCY IS THE HOBGOBLIN OF LITTLE MINDS.
HOBGOBLIN OF LITTLE MINDS.
FIRST THEY SAID SHE FAKED HER FIRST THEY SAID SHE FAKED HER CONCUSSION.
CONCUSSION.
AND NOW THEY SAY SHE'S AND NOW THEY SAY SHE'S AUDITIONING FOR A PART ON THE AUDITIONING FOR A PART ON THE WALKING DEAD.
WALKING DEAD.
[LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IT I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IT TAKES.
TAKES.
GWEN: JOHN DICKERSON WRITES GWEN: JOHN DICKERSON WRITES THIS WEEK THAT THERE IS THIS WEEK THAT THERE IS APPARENTLY A REQUIREMENT THAT APPARENTLY A REQUIREMENT THAT THE POLITICAL WORLD GO THE POLITICAL WORLD GO PERIODICALLY INSANE ABOUT THE PERIODICALLY INSANE ABOUT THE FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE.
FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE.
WAS THAT WHAT WE SAW HAPPENING WAS THAT WHAT WE SAW HAPPENING THIS WEEK?
THIS WEEK?
>> NORMALLY THE POLITICAL WORLD >> NORMALLY THE POLITICAL WORLD IS KIND OF MAKING IT UP.
IS KIND OF MAKING IT UP.
HILLARY CLINTON HAS A CORN CHIP HILLARY CLINTON HAS A CORN CHIP AND THEY THINK IT IS PART OF A AND THEY THINK IT IS PART OF A STRATEGY IN IOWA.
STRATEGY IN IOWA.
THIS WEEK ACTUALLY THERE WAS THIS WEEK ACTUALLY THERE WAS SOMETHING TO HANG YOUR ANALYSIS SOMETHING TO HANG YOUR ANALYSIS ON.
ON.
BECAUSE THE CLINTONS AND YOU BECAUSE THE CLINTONS AND YOU SAW BILL CLINTON SORT OF LUXE SAW BILL CLINTON SORT OF LUXE -- SORT OF LU -- SORT OF LU XURIATING.
XURIATING.
THEY WEREN'T JUST CORRECTING THEY WEREN'T JUST CORRECTING THE WORD SAYING KARL ROVE WAS THE WORD SAYING KARL ROVE WAS WRONG IN HIS DIAGNOSIS AND HERE WRONG IN HIS DIAGNOSIS AND HERE ARE THE FACTS.
ARE THE FACTS.
THEY WERE DEFENDING HER FUTURE THEY WERE DEFENDING HER FUTURE POLITICAL -- SAYING THIS IS IN POLITICAL -- SAYING THIS IS IN LINE WITH A SERIES OF POLITICAL LINE WITH A SERIES OF POLITICAL ATTACKS SHE'S FACED.
ATTACKS SHE'S FACED.
AND BILL CLINTON DID THE SAME AND BILL CLINTON DID THE SAME THING.
THING.
HE DEFENDED HER AS A PERSON WHO HE DEFENDED HER AS A PERSON WHO HAS -- IS NOT JUST A PRIVATE HAS -- IS NOT JUST A PRIVATE CITIZEN WHO'S GOING TO GO OFF CITIZEN WHO'S GOING TO GO OFF AND KEEP HER RETIREMENT.
AND KEEP HER RETIREMENT.
BUT HE WAS DEFENDING HER AS BUT HE WAS DEFENDING HER AS SOMEBODY WHO'S GOING TO HAVE A SOMEBODY WHO'S GOING TO HAVE A POLITICAL FUTURE AND WAS POLITICAL FUTURE AND WAS FRAMING THE RESPONSE IN THAT FRAMING THE RESPONSE IN THAT CONTEXT.
CONTEXT.
AND SO IT FELT VERY MUCH LIKE AND SO IT FELT VERY MUCH LIKE THE BEGINNING OF SOMETHING.
THE BEGINNING OF SOMETHING.
A NEW STEP IN THE WAY THE A NEW STEP IN THE WAY THE CLINTONS ARE RESPONDING.
CLINTONS ARE RESPONDING.
AND AS THE PRESIDENT CLINTNT AND AS THE PRESIDENT CLINTNT SAID THERE, THEY'LL KEEP TRYING SAID THERE, THEY'LL KEEP TRYING AND THEY'LL GET BETTER AT IT.
AND THEY'LL GET BETTER AT IT.
IMPLICIT IN THAT IS THEY'RE IMPLICIT IN THAT IS THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A CHANCE TO WHEN GOING TO HAVE A CHANCE TO WHEN SHE RUNS.
SHE RUNS.
>> JOHN, I HAVE TO SAY I >> JOHN, I HAVE TO SAY I COVERED SECRETARY CLINTON WHEN COVERED SECRETARY CLINTON WHEN SHE FELL.
SHE FELL.
AND WITH PRESIDENT CLINTON AND WITH PRESIDENT CLINTON SAYING SHE NEVER LOW BALD THE SAYING SHE NEVER LOW BALD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, MAYBE NOT.
AMERICAN PEOPLE, MAYBE NOT.
BUT WE COULD NOT GET ANY BUT WE COULD NOT GET ANY INFORMATION WITHOUT DRAGGING IT INFORMATION WITHOUT DRAGGING IT OUT OF THEM.
OUT OF THEM.
YEAH, THEY HAD A FEW STATEMENTS YEAH, THEY HAD A FEW STATEMENTS THAT THEY PUT OUT.
THAT THEY PUT OUT.
BUT BOY, NO ONE KNEW ABOUT THE BUT BOY, NO ONE KNEW ABOUT THE EYEGLASS THING UNTIL SOMEBODY EYEGLASS THING UNTIL SOMEBODY NOTICED IT ON TV.
NOTICED IT ON TV.
AND SAW HER -- SO THAT WASN'T AND SAW HER -- SO THAT WASN'T EASY TO GET.
EASY TO GET.
>> WELL, NO.
>> WELL, NO.
AND THEY DON'T NECESSARILY WANT AND THEY DON'T NECESSARILY WANT THIS CONVERSATION TO BE THIS CONVERSATION TO BE HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.
HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.
BECAUSE SHE'S IN THIS TWILIGHT BECAUSE SHE'S IN THIS TWILIGHT PERIOD.
PERIOD.
SHE'S NOT A CANDIDATE.
SHE'S NOT A CANDIDATE.
BUT SHE'S BEING CERTAINLY BUT SHE'S BEING CERTAINLY ATTACKED AS IF SHE WERE WR A ATTACKED AS IF SHE WERE WR A CANDIDATE.
CANDIDATE.
SO THEY HAVE TO FIND WAYS TO SO THEY HAVE TO FIND WAYS TO RESPOND.
RESPOND.
YOU DON'T WANT THIS STORY OUT YOU DON'T WANT THIS STORY OUT THERE RUNNING ESPECIALLY WITH THERE RUNNING ESPECIALLY WITH KARL ROVE LAUNCHING IT IN WITH KARL ROVE LAUNCHING IT IN WITH LOTS OF -- HE RAISED LOTS OF LOTS OF -- HE RAISED LOTS OF TROUBLING QUESTIONS.
TROUBLING QUESTIONS.
AND YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE AND YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE MAKING UP THEIR OWN NARRATIVE.
MAKING UP THEIR OWN NARRATIVE.
GWEN: IS IT OVER?
GWEN: IS IT OVER?
>> IT'S NOT OVER.
>> IT'S NOT OVER.
BECAUSE THOSE WHO WANT TO RAISE BECAUSE THOSE WHO WANT TO RAISE THIS ISSUE WANT TO TRY AND DO A THIS ISSUE WANT TO TRY AND DO A COUPLE OF THINGS.
COUPLE OF THINGS.
THEY WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THEY WANT TO POINT OUT THAT MRS. CLINTON WILL BE 66 WHEN MRS. CLINTON WILL BE 66 WHEN SHE'S PRESIDENT.
SHE'S PRESIDENT.
OR WHEN SHE RUNS.
OR WHEN SHE RUNS.
AND THEY WANT TO RAISE AND THEY WANT TO RAISE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF HER VERSUS THE PAST.
HER VERSUS THE PAST.
SO THERE'S A LOT GOING ON HERE SO THERE'S A LOT GOING ON HERE THAT WILL BE IN THIS BUCKET OF THAT WILL BE IN THIS BUCKET OF ISSUES THAT TOUCH ON WHAT KARL ISSUES THAT TOUCH ON WHAT KARL ROVE WAS TALKING ABOUT THIS ROVE WAS TALKING ABOUT THIS WEEK.
WEEK.
>> HOW CAN THE REST OF US AVOID >> HOW CAN THE REST OF US AVOID BRAIN DAMAGE FOLLOWING THIS BRAIN DAMAGE FOLLOWING THIS STORY FOR THREE YEARS AS STORY FOR THREE YEARS AS HILLARY CLINTON PREPARES TO RUN HILLARY CLINTON PREPARES TO RUN AND THEN PERHAPS RUNS?
AND THEN PERHAPS RUNS?
>> THAT'S THE TRICKY THING FOR >> THAT'S THE TRICKY THING FOR HER.
HER.
IS THAT AT THE MOMENT, SHE IS IS THAT AT THE MOMENT, SHE IS UNCHALLENGED REALLY.
UNCHALLENGED REALLY.
ON THE -- THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ON THE -- THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS LINING UP BEHIND HER.
IS LINING UP BEHIND HER.
THERE HAS NOT BEEN A SITUATION THERE HAS NOT BEEN A SITUATION LIKE THIS WHERE ADD PARTY LIKE THIS WHERE ADD PARTY NOMINEE RISE WITHOUT MUCH OF A NOMINEE RISE WITHOUT MUCH OF A CHALLENGE SINCE 1908.
CHALLENGE SINCE 1908.
SO THAT MAKES HER BASICALLY SO THAT MAKES HER BASICALLY LIKE AN INCUMBENT PRESIDENT.
LIKE AN INCUMBENT PRESIDENT.
WHERE THE ENTIRE OTHER SIDE, WHERE THE ENTIRE OTHER SIDE, THE ENTIRE REPUBLICAN PARTY CAN THE ENTIRE REPUBLICAN PARTY CAN JUST ATTACK HER ALL DAY LONG.
JUST ATTACK HER ALL DAY LONG.
NOW, THEY'VE BEEN DOING THAT NOW, THEY'VE BEEN DOING THAT SINCE SHE WAS CANDIDATE OR WAS SINCE SHE WAS CANDIDATE OR WAS THE SPOUSE OF A PRESIDENTIAL THE SPOUSE OF A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE IN 1992.
CANDIDATE IN 1992.
BUT IT CREATES A SPECIAL BUT IT CREATES A SPECIAL SITUATION FOR HER.
SITUATION FOR HER.
THAT SHE'S GOING TO HAVE -- AND THAT SHE'S GOING TO HAVE -- AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO THE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO SCHOOL ON SOMETHING THAT BARACK SCHOOL ON SOMETHING THAT BARACK OBAMA'S TEAM DID.
OBAMA'S TEAM DID.
WHICH WAS THEY WENT AFTER MITT WHICH WAS THEY WENT AFTER MITT ROSM BEFORE HE WON THE ROSM BEFORE HE WON THE NOMINATION.
NOMINATION.
DEFINE HIM EARLY AND GO AFTER DEFINE HIM EARLY AND GO AFTER HIM EARLY AND KEEP THEM PINNED HIM EARLY AND KEEP THEM PINNED DOWN SO THEY CAN'T TALK ABOUT DOWN SO THEY CAN'T TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT.
WHAT THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT.
>> THERE'S THE SCHOOL OF >> THERE'S THE SCHOOL OF THOUGHT THAT SAYS KARL ROVE IS THOUGHT THAT SAYS KARL ROVE IS THE EVIL GENIUS HERE, RIGHT?
THE EVIL GENIUS HERE, RIGHT?
THAT HE ACHIEVED EXACTLY WHAT THAT HE ACHIEVED EXACTLY WHAT HE SET OUT TO AND A VERY HE SET OUT TO AND A VERY STRATEGIC ATTEMPT TO SORT OF STRATEGIC ATTEMPT TO SORT OF POISON THE WELL THAT DID HE WIN POISON THE WELL THAT DID HE WIN THIS ROUND?
THIS ROUND?
>> HE MIGHT HAVE.
>> HE MIGHT HAVE.
IN THE SENSE THAT EVERYBODY'S IN THE SENSE THAT EVERYBODY'S TALKING ABOUT -- AND MARTHA TALKING ABOUT -- AND MARTHA BRINGS UP HOW DIFFICULT IT WAS BRINGS UP HOW DIFFICULT IT WAS TO GET THIS INFORMATION OUT.
TO GET THIS INFORMATION OUT.
AND ALL OF THAT.
AND ALL OF THAT.
ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU CAN HAVE ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU CAN HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING AT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING AT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND SAYING REPUBLICAN PARTY AND SAYING WHAT KIND OF A PARTY IS THIS?
WHAT KIND OF A PARTY IS THIS?
IS IT A PARTY FULL OF IDE OR AS IS IT A PARTY FULL OF IDE OR AS A PARTY THAT'S PICKING ON A PARTY THAT'S PICKING ON HILLARY CLINTON INSTEAD OF HILLARY CLINTON INSTEAD OF PUTTING FORTH THEIR IDEAS?
PUTTING FORTH THEIR IDEAS?
TO THE EXTENT THAT THIS DEFINES TO THE EXTENT THAT THIS DEFINES THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR A THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR A MOMENT, THAT MIGHT NOT BE SO MOMENT, THAT MIGHT NOT BE SO GREAT FOR REPUBLICANS.
GREAT FOR REPUBLICANS.
GWEN: WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT GWEN: WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE ABOUT WHAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE UP TO INCLUDING WHAT CHRIS UP TO INCLUDING WHAT CHRIS CHRISTIE HAD TO SAY THIS WEEK CHRISTIE HAD TO SAY THIS WEEK HT OUR WEB CAST TONIG.
HT OUR WEB CAST TONIG.
YOU CAN WATCH MY ENTIRE YOU CAN WATCH MY ENTIRE INTERVIEW WITH PRESIDENT INTERVIEW WITH PRESIDENT CLINTON ON OUR WEB SITE AT CLINTON ON OUR WEB SITE AT PBS.ORG/WASHINGTONWEEK.
PBS.ORG/WASHINGTONWEEK.
BEFORE WE GO TONIGHT, I JUST BEFORE WE GO TONIGHT, I JUST WANT TO SAY A FEW WORDS ABOUT WANT TO SAY A FEW WORDS ABOUT BARBARA WALTERS.
BARBARA WALTERS.
REALLY JUST A FEW.
REALLY JUST A FEW.
IF SHE HAD NOT DONE WHAT SHE IF SHE HAD NOT DONE WHAT SHE DID, I COULD NOT DO WHAT I DO.
DID, I COULD NOT DO WHAT I DO.
IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
THANK YOU, BARBARA, I HOPE I THANK YOU, BARBARA, I HOPE I CAN MAKE EVEN A FRACTION OF THE CAN MAKE EVEN A FRACTION OF THE IMPACT YOU HAVE.
IMPACT YOU HAVE.
I THINK ALL THE WOMEN AROUND I THINK ALL THE WOMEN AROUND THE TABLE AGREE.
THE TABLE AGREE.
DON'T FORGET, OUR WEBCAST EXTRA DON'T FORGET, OUR WEBCAST EXTRA COMES UP AT 8:30 P.M. WHERE COMES UP AT 8:30 P.M. WHERE WE'LL ALSO PREVIEW NEXT WEEK'S WE'LL ALSO PREVIEW NEXT WEEK'S PRIMARIES IN GEORGIA AND PRIMARIES IN GEORGIA AND KENTUCKY.
KENTUCKY.
KEEP UP WITH DAILY DEVELOPMENTS KEEP UP WITH DAILY DEVELOPMENTS WITH ME AND JUDY WOODRUFF EVERY WITH ME AND JUDY WOODRUFF EVERY NIGHT ON "THE PBS NEWSHOUR" AND NIGHT ON "THE PBS NEWSHOUR" AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK ON WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."
"WASHINGTON WEEK."
GOOD NIGHT.