GWEN: HEADACHES AND CHALLENGES IN UKRAINE, ON HEALTH CARE, AND IN UKRAINE, ON HEALTH CARE, AND AT THE VATICAN.
AT THE VATICAN.
WE'LL COVER IT ALL TONIGHT ON WE'LL COVER IT ALL TONIGHT ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."
"WASHINGTON WEEK."
POWER IA IS A REGIONAL POWER IA IS A REGIONAL THAT IS THREATENING SOME OF ITS THAT IS THREATENING SOME OF ITS IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORS.
IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORS.
NOT OUT OF STRENGTH BUT OUT OF NOT OUT OF STRENGTH BUT OUT OF WEAKNESS.
WEAKNESS.
GWEN: GAUNTLET THROWN.
GWEN: GAUNTLET THROWN.
BUT NO SIGN THAT RUSSIA IS BUT NO SIGN THAT RUSSIA IS BACKING DOWN AS NATO CLOSES BACKING DOWN AS NATO CLOSES RANKS, THE NEXT MOVE IS RANKS, THE NEXT MOVE IS VLADIMIR PUTIN'S.
VLADIMIR PUTIN'S.
IN ROME THE FIRST IN ROME THE FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN U.S. PRESINT DE AFRICAN-AMERICAN U.S. PRESINT DE MEETS WITH THE FIRST LATIN MEETS WITH THE FIRST LATIN AMERICAN POPE.
AMERICAN POPE.
>> I DON'T THINK THAT HIS >> I DON'T THINK THAT HIS HOLINESS ENVISIONS ENTERING HOLINESS ENVISIONS ENTERING INTO A PARTNERSHIP OR COALITION INTO A PARTNERSHIP OR COALITION WITH ANY POLITICAL FIGURE ON WITH ANY POLITICAL FIGURE ON ANY ISSUE.
ANY ISSUE.
HIS JOB IS A LITTLE MORE HIS JOB IS A LITTLE MORE ELEVATED.
ELEVATED.
GWEN: THE DIFFERENCES AND THE GWEN: THE DIFFERENCES AND THE SIMILARITIES.
SIMILARITIES.
AT HOME, SIX MILLION PEOPLE AT HOME, SIX MILLION PEOPLE HAVE SIGNED UP FOR THE FEDERAL HAVE SIGNED UP FOR THE FEDERAL HEALTH CARE EXCHANGES.
HEALTH CARE EXCHANGES.
BUT THE GOVERNMENT IS GIVING BUT THE GOVERNMENT IS GIVING THEM EVEN MORE TIME.
THEM EVEN MORE TIME.
>> LAST NIGHT BROUGHT US YET >> LAST NIGHT BROUGHT US YET ANOTHER DELAY OF OBAMACARE.
ANOTHER DELAY OF OBAMACARE.
ANOTHER DEADLINE MADE MEANLESS.
ANOTHER DEADLINE MADE MEANLESS.
GWEN: BUT THE WHITE HOUSE SAYS GWEN: BUT THE WHITE HOUSE SAYS IT'S GOODEWS.
N IT'S GOODEWS.
N AND AT THE HIGH COURT, THE AND AT THE HIGH COURT, THE FIGHT OVER ABORTION RIGHTS IS FIGHT OVER ABORTION RIGHTS IS BACK.
BACK.
>> WE BELIEVE THAT AMERICANS >> WE BELIEVE THAT AMERICANS DON'T LO THESEIR RELIGIOUS DON'T LO THESEIR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM WHEN THEY OPEN A FAMILY FREEDOM WHEN THEY OPEN A FAMILY BUSINESS.
BUSINESS.
>> RELIGIOUS FREEDOM GIVES US >> RELIGIOUS FREEDOM GIVES US OUR RIGHT TO BELIEF BUT IT OUR RIGHT TO BELIEF BUT IT DOESN'T GIVE US OUR RIGHTS TO DOESN'T GIVE US OUR RIGHTS TO IMPOSE THEM ON OTHERS.
IMPOSE THEM ON OTHERS.
GWEN: PETER BAKER OF "THE NEW GWEN: PETER BAKER OF "THE NEW YORK TIMES."
YORK TIMES."
DOYLE MCMANUS OF THE "LOS DOYLE MCMANUS OF THE "LOS ANGELES TIMES."
ANGELES TIMES."
ALEX WAYNE OF BLOOMBERG NEWS.
ALEX WAYNE OF BLOOMBERG NEWS.
AND JOAN BISKUPIC OF REUTERS.
AND JOAN BISKUPIC OF REUTERS.
>> AWARD WINNING REPORTING AND >> AWARD WINNING REPORTING AND ANALYSIS.
ANALYSIS.
COVERING HISTORY AS IT HAPPENS.
COVERING HISTORY AS IT HAPPENS.
LIVE FROM OUR NATION'S CAPITAL LIVE FROM OUR NATION'S CAPITAL THIS IS "WASHINGTON WEEK WITH THIS IS "WASHINGTON WEEK WITH GWEN IFILL."
ONCE AGAIN, LIVE FROM WASHINGTON, MODERATOR GWEN WASHINGTON, MODERATOR GWEN IFILL.
IFILL.
GWEN: GOOD EVENING.
GWEN: GOOD EVENING.
IT FEELS LIKE WE ARE ON THE IT FEELS LIKE WE ARE ON THE BRINK OF SOMETHING WITH RUSSIA.
BRINK OF SOMETHING WITH RUSSIA.
THE UNYIELDING STANDOFF OVER THE UNYIELDING STANDOFF OVER THE ANEXTATION OF CRIMEA HAS THE ANEXTATION OF CRIMEA HAS BECOME A CRITICAL NEW TEST FOR BECOME A CRITICAL NEW TEST FOR THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION FOREIGN POLICY.
FOREIGN POLICY.
THE PRESIDENT ADDRESSED THE THE PRESIDENT ADDRESSED THE ISSUE ALMOST EVERY DAY THIS ISSUE ALMOST EVERY DAY THIS WEEK AS HE TRAVELED THROUGH WEEK AS HE TRAVELED THROUGH EUROPE.
EUROPE.
>> THERE IS STILL A WAY FOR >> THERE IS STILL A WAY FOR RUSSIA TO WORK WITH UKRAINE AND RUSSIA TO WORK WITH UKRAINE AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO DE-ESCALATE THE SITUATION DE-ESCALATE THE SITUATION THROUGH DIPLOMACY.
THROUGH DIPLOMACY.
THAT'S THE ONLY WAY THAT THE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY THAT THE ISSUE WILL BE RESOLVED.
ISSUE WILL BE RESOLVED.
IF RUSSIA CONTINUES ON ITS IF RUSSIA CONTINUES ON ITS CURRENT COURSE, HOWEVER, THE CURRENT COURSE, HOWEVER, THE ISOLATION WILL DEEPEN.
ISOLATION WILL DEEPEN.
GWEN: BUT SO FAR THE THREAT OF GWEN: BUT SO FAR THE THREAT OF ISOLATION HAS DONE LITTLE TO ISOLATION HAS DONE LITTLE TO CHANGE RUSSIA'S CALCULUS.
CHANGE RUSSIA'S CALCULUS.
WHY IS THAT, PETER?
WHY IS THAT, PETER?
>> WELL, THE SANCTIONS SO FAR HAVEN'T BEEN THE KIND OF HAVEN'T BEEN THE KIND OF MEASURES THAT HAVE ACTUALLY MEASURES THAT HAVE ACTUALLY BITTEN VERY HARD INTO THE BITTEN VERY HARD INTO THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY.
RUSSIAN ECONOMY.
PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS TRIED TO PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS TRIED TO SAY, LOOK, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE SAY, LOOK, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DOING.
DOING.
JUST FOR STARTERS.
JUST FOR STARTERS.
WE COULD DO A LOT WORSE.
WE COULD DO A LOT WORSE.
THERE WAS KIND A LITTLE BIT OF THERE WAS KIND A LITTLE BIT OF A MOMENTARY POSSIBLE A MOMENTARY POSSIBLE BREAKTHROUGH THIS AFTERNOON.
BREAKTHROUGH THIS AFTERNOON.
NOBODY KNOWS QUITE WHAT TO MAKE NOBODY KNOWS QUITE WHAT TO MAKE OF IT IN WHICH PRESIDENT PUTIN OF IT IN WHICH PRESIDENT PUTIN CALLED PRESIDENT OBAMA, HE'S CALLED PRESIDENT OBAMA, HE'S HASN'T BEEN DOING THAT VERY HASN'T BEEN DOING THAT VERY MUCH AND THE OTHER WAY AROUND MUCH AND THE OTHER WAY AROUND WHEN THEY TALKED.
WHEN THEY TALKED.
THESE IDEAS THAT CARRY -- THESE IDEAS THAT CARRY -- SECRETARY KERRY AND FOREIGN SECRETARY KERRY AND FOREIGN MINISTER LAVROV HAVE BEEN MINISTER LAVROV HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, MAYBE WE SHOULD TALKING ABOUT, MAYBE WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT THEM.
TALK ABOUT THEM.
GWEN: WHAT WAS INTERESTING GWEN: WHAT WAS INTERESTING ABOUT THAT PHONE CALL OR THE ABOUT THAT PHONE CALL OR THE ACCOUNTS THAT THE WHITE HOUSE ACCOUNTS THAT THE WHITE HOUSE AND THEN THE KREMLIN PUT OUT AND THEN THE KREMLIN PUT OUT ABOUT THE PHONE CALLS IS THAT ABOUT THE PHONE CALLS IS THAT THE PRESIDENT SAID WE'RE ABOUT THE PRESIDENT SAID WE'RE ABOUT TO PURSUE DIPLOMACY AGAIN.
TO PURSUE DIPLOMACY AGAIN.
AND I DIDN'T GET THAT READING AND I DIDN'T GET THAT READING THE STATEMENT.
THE STATEMENT.
>> IT DIDN'T SOUND LIKE THE >> IT DIDN'T SOUND LIKE THE SAME PHONE CALL IF YOU WATCHED SAME PHONE CALL IF YOU WATCHED THE TWO STATEMENTS.
THE TWO STATEMENTS.
THE WHITE HOUSE EMPHASIZED THE THE WHITE HOUSE EMPHASIZED THE POSSIBLE MOVEMENT TOWARD POSSIBLE MOVEMENT TOWARD DIPLOMACY.
DIPLOMACY.
THE KREMLIN STATEMENT TALKED THE KREMLIN STATEMENT TALKED ABOUT HOW PUTIN RAILED AGAINST ABOUT HOW PUTIN RAILED AGAINST THE EXTREMISTS OR -- IN UKRAINE THE EXTREMISTS OR -- IN UKRAINE AND BASICALLY JUSTIFYING HIS AND BASICALLY JUSTIFYING HIS ACTIONS IN EFFECT.
ACTIONS IN EFFECT.
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE KREMLIN BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE KREMLIN STATEMENT THERE WAS A SENTENCE STATEMENT THERE WAS A SENTENCE AND AS A RESULT OF THAT THE AND AS A RESULT OF THAT THE PRESIDENT PROPOSED SOME PRESIDENT PROPOSED SOME DIPLOMATIC CONVERSATION.
DIPLOMATIC CONVERSATION.
SO THE QUESTION IS, IS THE SO THE QUESTION IS, IS THE PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA TRYING TO PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA TRYING TO BACK DOWN BUT COVERING IT BACK DOWN BUT COVERING IT THROUGH INFLAMMATORY LANGUAGE THROUGH INFLAMMATORY LANGUAGE TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE HE'S STILL TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE HE'S STILL STRONG WHICH IN SOME WAYS HE STRONG WHICH IN SOME WAYS HE IS?
IS?
OR IS HE JUST USING THIS AS A OR IS HE JUST USING THIS AS A Y TO GET LEVERAGE OVER Y TO GET LEVERAGE OVER PRESIDENT OBAMA?
PRESIDENT OBAMA?
>> THAT RAISES THE QUESTION OF >> THAT RAISES THE QUESTION OF WHAT IS PRESIDENT PUTIN'S GAME WHAT IS PRESIDENT PUTIN'S GAME PLAN HERE?
PLAN HERE?
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH.
>> HE MIGHT NOT WANT TO BE >> HE MIGHT NOT WANT TO BE BACKING DOWN BUT WHAT IF HE IS BACKING DOWN BUT WHAT IF HE IS NOT ONLY NOT BACKING DOWN BUT NOT ONLY NOT BACKING DOWN BUT GOING FORWARD SOMEWHERE ELSE?
GOING FORWARD SOMEWHERE ELSE?
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS HAPPENING?
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS HAPPENING?
>> HE MIGHT BE F ANYBODY IN >> HE MIGHT BE F ANYBODY IN AMERICAN GOVERNMENT TELLS YOU AMERICAN GOVERNMENT TELLS YOU THEY KNOW WHAT PUTIN IS UP TO THEY KNOW WHAT PUTIN IS UP TO THEY'RE NOT REALLY TELLING THE THEY'RE NOT REALLY TELLING THE TRUTH HERE.
TRUTH HERE.
NOBODY REALLY KNOWS.
NOBODY REALLY KNOWS.
HE HAS THESE TROOPS ON THE HE HAS THESE TROOPS ON THE BORDER WITH UKRAINE AND IS HE BORDER WITH UKRAINE AND IS HE GOING TO GO IN?
GOING TO GO IN?
SOME INTELLIGENCE REPORTS SAY SOME INTELLIGENCE REPORTS SAY MAYBE HE IS LIKELY TO.
MAYBE HE IS LIKELY TO.
IN THE STATEMENT TODAY, WHERE IN THE STATEMENT TODAY, WHERE HE TALKS ABOUT DIPLOMATIC HE TALKS ABOUT DIPLOMATIC POSSIBILITIES, HE MENTIONS POSSIBILITIES, HE MENTIONS TRANSNATIA.
TRANSNATIA.
A BREAKAWAY PRO-RUSSIAN AREA OF A BREAKAWAY PRO-RUSSIAN AREA OF MOLDOVA, A COUNTRY YOU'VE NEVER MOLDOVA, A COUNTRY YOU'VE NEVER HEARD OF ON THE BORDER OF HEARD OF ON THE BORDER OF UKRAINE.
UKRAINE.
HE THROWS THAT IN THE MIX SEEMS HE THROWS THAT IN THE MIX SEEMS MORE ESCALATION.
MORE ESCALATION.
YOU GUYS IN UKRAINE ARE YOU GUYS IN UKRAINE ARE BLOCKING AND NOT FAIR TO THEM BLOCKING AND NOT FAIR TO THEM AND WE MIGHT HAVE TO COME TO AND WE MIGHT HAVE TO COME TO THEIR RESCUE.
THEIR RESCUE.
THERE ARE 1,000 SOLDIERS IN THERE ARE 1,000 SOLDIERS IN TRANSNATIA WHICH MAY BE IN TRANSNATIA WHICH MAY BE IN RUSSIA IF YOU HELD AN ELECTION RUSSIA IF YOU HELD AN ELECTION SO IT COULD TRANSPIRE MANY SO IT COULD TRANSPIRE MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.
DIFFERENT WAYS.
>> WHEN THE SANCTIONS STARTED >> WHEN THE SANCTIONS STARTED WE LEARNED TWO CARNEY, WHITE HO WE LEARNED TWO CARNEY, WHITE HO SPOKESMAN, YOU WILL SEE IF SPOKESMAN, YOU WILL SEE IF THESE ARE AFFECT BEING THE THESE ARE AFFECT BEING THE RUBLE AND THE STOCK MARKET.
RUBLE AND THE STOCK MARKET.
MY FIRST QUESTION IS HOW DOES MY FIRST QUESTION IS HOW DOES THE STOCK MARKET LOOK LIKE IN THE STOCK MARKET LOOK LIKE IN MOSCOW?
MOSCOW?
THE SECOND WAS BUT IT'S NOT THE SECOND WAS BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BITE UNLESS THE GOING TO BITE UNLESS THE GERMANS AND THE EUROPEANS GET GERMANS AND THE EUROPEANS GET IN WHOLE HOG.
IN WHOLE HOG.
SO WHAT'S THE STATUTES OF THE SO WHAT'S THE STATUTES OF THE SANCTIONS?
SANCTIONS?
>> THE SANCTIONS HAVEN'T HAD >> THE SANCTIONS HAVEN'T HAD ANY -- ENOUGH EFFECT FOFF A ANY -- ENOUGH EFFECT FOFF A GENUINE IMPACT ON PRESIDENT'S GENUINE IMPACT ON PRESIDENT'S DECISION MAKING AT LEAST NOBODY DECISION MAKING AT LEAST NOBODY THINKS SO.
THINKS SO.
THE RUBLE IS NOT AS GOOD AS IT THE RUBLE IS NOT AS GOOD AS IT ONCE WAS.
ONCE WAS.
THE ECONOMY OBVIOUSLY ISN'T AS THE ECONOMY OBVIOUSLY ISN'T AS GOOD AS IT ONCE WAS.
GOOD AS IT ONCE WAS.
THE MARKETS HAVE SOME UPS AND THE MARKETS HAVE SOME UPS AND DOWNS.
DOWNS.
AND YOU SEE SOME RUSSIANS AND YOU SEE SOME RUSSIANS BEGINNING TO PULL BACK ON THEIR BEGINNING TO PULL BACK ON THEIR MONEY.
MONEY.
ABROAD.
ABROAD.
IN FEAR OF WORSE SANCTIONS TO IN FEAR OF WORSE SANCTIONS TO COME.
COME.
IT'S NOT THESE SANCTIONS THAT IT'S NOT THESE SANCTIONS THAT WILL MAKE THE DIFFERENCE.
WILL MAKE THE DIFFERENCE.
IT'S IF THEY GO TO THE NEXT IT'S IF THEY GO TO THE NEXT STEP.
STEP.
DO YOU HAVE -- MORE BANKS, DO DO YOU HAVE -- MORE BANKS, DO YOU GO AFTER THE ARMS INDUSTRY YOU GO AFTER THE ARMS INDUSTRY WHICH PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS WHICH PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS THREATENED?
THREATENED?
DO YOU GO AFTER WHOLE SECTORS DO YOU GO AFTER WHOLE SECTORS OF THE ECONOMY?
OF THE ECONOMY?
AND WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID IN AND WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID IN EUROPE THIS WEEK WAS, WE WON'T EUROPE THIS WEEK WAS, WE WON'T DO THIS IN EFFECT.
DO THIS IN EFFECT.
IF YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING IF YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING FURTHER.
FURTHER.
HE'S HOLDING BACK ANY FURTHER HE'S HOLDING BACK ANY FURTHER SANCTIONS.
SANCTIONS.
IN CASE OF ESCALATION BY IN CASE OF ESCALATION BY RUSSIA.
RUSSIA.
>> THE UKRAINIANS HAVE THESE >> THE UKRAINIANS HAVE THESE THOUSANDS OF RUSSIAN TROOPS ON THOUSANDS OF RUSSIAN TROOPS ON THEIR BORDER AND THEY ARE THEIR BORDER AND THEY ARE PRESUMABLY NOT DEFENSELESS.
PRESUMABLY NOT DEFENSELESS.
IF PUTIN WERE TO MAKE A MOVE IN IF PUTIN WERE TO MAKE A MOVE IN EASTERN UKRAINE WOULD THEY EASTERN UKRAINE WOULD THEY FIGHT?
FIGHT?
>> THEY PRETTY MUCH ARE >> THEY PRETTY MUCH ARE DEFENSELESS.
DEFENSELESS.
THEY ONLY HAVE 6,000 TROOPS WHO THEY ONLY HAVE 6,000 TROOPS WHO ARE ARMED AND READY.
ARE ARMED AND READY.
AND SO FORTH.
AND SO FORTH.
IN EASTERN UKRAINE WHO IN IN EASTERN UKRAINE WHO IN THEORY COULD PUT UP A FIGHT AND THEORY COULD PUT UP A FIGHT AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO DO IT.
THAT'S NOT GOING TO DO IT.
GWEN: IN AN INTERVIEW IT SAID GWEN: IN AN INTERVIEW IT SAID WE WILL FIGHT.
WE WILL FIGHT.
AND IT SOUNDED PATRIOTIC AND AND IT SOUNDED PATRIOTIC AND WITH ONE SHIP LEFT IN THE NAVY WITH ONE SHIP LEFT IN THE NAVY OR SOMETHING.
OR SOMETHING.
>> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY.
THAT SHIP HAS BEEN SWINGING THAT SHIP HAS BEEN SWINGING AROUND THE HARBOR TRYING TO AROUND THE HARBOR TRYING TO AVOID THE RUSSIANS.
AVOID THE RUSSIANS.
LIKE THE PLAGUE.
LIKE THE PLAGUE.
A VERY LOPSIDED SITUATION A VERY LOPSIDED SITUATION THERE.
THERE.
UKRAINE HAS DONE A REMARKABLE UKRAINE HAS DONE A REMARKABLE JOB IN BEING RESTRAINED AND NOT JOB IN BEING RESTRAINED AND NOT BUYING INTO THE PROVOCATIONS BUYING INTO THE PROVOCATIONS AND NOT GIVING THE RUSSIANS AN AND NOT GIVING THE RUSSIANS AN EXCUSE TO DO SOMETHING FURTHER.
EXCUSE TO DO SOMETHING FURTHER.
BY FIGHTING BACK OR CUTTING OFF BY FIGHTING BACK OR CUTTING OFF ELECTRICITY AND WATER TO CRIMEA ELECTRICITY AND WATER TO CRIMEA BY DOING ANYTHING THAT WOULD BY DOING ANYTHING THAT WOULD GIVE PRESIDENT PUTIN THE GIVE PRESIDENT PUTIN THE PREDICATE TO DO FURTHER.
PREDICATE TO DO FURTHER.
BUT LIKE YOU SAY, IF HE BUT LIKE YOU SAY, IF HE ACTUALLY MOVED INTO EASTERN ACTUALLY MOVED INTO EASTERN UKRAINE HARD TO IMAGINE THEM UKRAINE HARD TO IMAGINE THEM SITTING BACK AND NOT AT LEAST SITTING BACK AND NOT AT LEAST DOING SOMETHING.
DOING SOMETHING.
GWEN: YOU WROTE A GOOD PIECE GWEN: YOU WROTE A GOOD PIECE THIS WEEK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THIS WEEK ABOUT THE FACT THAT VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS MANAGED TO VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS MANAGED TO BEDEVIL NOT JUST THIS PRESIDENT BEDEVIL NOT JUST THIS PRESIDENT BUT THREE PRESIDENTS.
BUT THREE PRESIDENTS.
U.S. PRESIDENTS.
U.S. PRESIDENTS.
IN A ROW.
IN A ROW.
WHY?
WHY?
HOW?
HOW?
>> I THINK AMERICAN PRESIDENTS >> I THINK AMERICAN PRESIDENTS AND AMERICAN OFFICIALS AND AND AMERICAN OFFICIALS AND JOURNALISTS PROBABLY REALLY JOURNALISTS PROBABLY REALLY WANTED TO SEE IN PUTIN WANTED TO SEE IN PUTIN SOMETHING HE WASN'T.
SOMETHING HE WASN'T.
THEY HOPED HE WAS POST THEY HOPED HE WAS POST YELTSIN'S SUCCESSOR WHO WOULD YELTSIN'S SUCCESSOR WHO WOULD CONSOLIDATE AND BRING SOME CONSOLIDATE AND BRING SOME ORDER TO THE DEMOCRACY AND ORDER TO THE DEMOCRACY AND CAPITALISM THAT YELTSIN HAD CAPITALISM THAT YELTSIN HAD BROUGHT TO THE OLD SOVIET BROUGHT TO THE OLD SOVIET UNION.
UNION.
MODERNIZE IT PERHAPS.
MODERNIZE IT PERHAPS.
AND HE WASN'T.
AND HE WASN'T.
HE TURNS OUT TO HAVE BEEN A HE TURNS OUT TO HAVE BEEN A CREATURE OF HIS UPBRINGING.
CREATURE OF HIS UPBRINGING.
K.G.B.
OFFICER.
K.G.B.
OFFICER.
AND A GREATLY DISTRESSED AND A GREATLY DISTRESSED GRIEVANCE THAT ANIMATES HIS GRIEVANCE THAT ANIMATES HIS ACTIONS.
ACTIONS.
HE FEELS THAT THE END.
HE FEELS THAT THE END.
SOVIET UNION WAS THE GREATEST SOVIET UNION WAS THE GREATEST GEOPOLITICAL CATASTROPHE OF THE GEOPOLITICAL CATASTROPHE OF THE 20TH CENTURY.
20TH CENTURY.
THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.
THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.
SO YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT.
SO YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT.
AS YOU EVALUATE HIS ACTIONS.
AS YOU EVALUATE HIS ACTIONS.
AND EVERY AMERICAN PRESIDENT AND EVERY AMERICAN PRESIDENT SAW HIM THROUGH AMERICAN LENS SAW HIM THROUGH AMERICAN LENS RATHER THAN THROUGH HIS OWN RATHER THAN THROUGH HIS OWN LENS.
LENS.
GWEN: IT'S POSSIBLE WE ARE GWEN: IT'S POSSIBLE WE ARE RUNNING THAT SAME DANGER AND RUNNING THAT SAME DANGER AND INTERPRETING EVERYTHING THAT INTERPRETING EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS THROUGH AN AMERICAN HAPPENS THROUGH AN AMERICAN LENS.
LENS.
THANK YOU, PETER.
THANK YOU, PETER.
THE STANDOFF WITH RUSSIA MAY THE STANDOFF WITH RUSSIA MAY HAVE BEEN IN FRONT.
HAVE BEEN IN FRONT.
MIND FOR THE U.S. PRESIDENT BUT MIND FOR THE U.S. PRESIDENT BUT ANOTHER INTERESTING TABLEAU ANOTHER INTERESTING TABLEAU UNFOLDED THIS WEEK AS WELL.
UNFOLDED THIS WEEK AS WELL.
THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC U.S.
THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC U.S. PRESIDENT MET WITH CONSERVATIVE PRESIDENT MET WITH CONSERVATIVE CATHOLIC ARGENTINEAN POPE.
CATHOLIC ARGENTINEAN POPE.
AND EVERYTHING SEEMED CORDIAL AND EVERYTHING SEEMED CORDIAL ENOUGH BUT ONE SIDE CHOSE TO ENOUGH BUT ONE SIDE CHOSE TO EMPHASIZE WHAT THE TWO HAD IN EMPHASIZE WHAT THE TWO HAD IN COMMON WHILE THE OTHER FOCUSED COMMON WHILE THE OTHER FOCUSED ON AREAS OF DIFFERENCE.
ON AREAS OF DIFFERENCE.
EACH HAD ITS OWN DOMESTIC EACH HAD ITS OWN DOMESTIC REASONS FOR THAT APPROACH.
REASONS FOR THAT APPROACH.
DIDN'T THEY, DOYLE?
DIDN'T THEY, DOYLE?
>> THEY DID, GWEN.
>> THEY DID, GWEN.
WE DON'T OFTEN TALK ABOUT THE WE DON'T OFTEN TALK ABOUT THE POPE AS A POLITICAL REPORTER POPE AS A POLITICAL REPORTER WITH A DOMESTIC CONSTITUENCY WITH A DOMESTIC CONSTITUENCY BUT YOU CAN MAKE THAT ANALOGY.
BUT YOU CAN MAKE THAT ANALOGY.
LET'S START WITH PRESIDENT LET'S START WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA, THOUGH.
OBAMA, THOUGH.
HE'S EASIER.
HE'S EASIER.
HE NEEDED ONE THING OUT OF THIS HE NEEDED ONE THING OUT OF THIS MEETING.
MEETING.
HE NEEDED A NICE PICTURE OF HE NEEDED A NICE PICTURE OF HIMSELF SMILING, NEXT TO THE HIMSELF SMILING, NEXT TO THE POPE, THE MOST POPULAR PERSON POPE, THE MOST POPULAR PERSON IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
NOT BARACK OBAMA.
NOT BARACK OBAMA.
THE POPE.
THE POPE.
GWEN: WE GOT THAT.
GWEN: WE GOT THAT.
>> HE GOT ALL THE PICTURES.
>> HE GOT ALL THE PICTURES.
THEY WERE LOVELY AND THE THEY WERE LOVELY AND THE PRESIDENT GAVE HIS READOUT OF PRESIDENT GAVE HIS READOUT OF THE MEETING AND IT WAS THE MEETING AND IT WAS SWEETNESS AND LIGHT.
SWEETNESS AND LIGHT.
IT WAS ABOUT THE COMMON GROUND IT WAS ABOUT THE COMMON GROUND ON POVERTY.
ON POVERTY.
AND THE COMMON GROUND ON WORLD AND THE COMMON GROUND ON WORLD PEACE.
PEACE.
AND THE FACT THEY WERE GOING TO AND THE FACT THEY WERE GOING TO WORK TOGETHER.
WORK TOGETHER.
AND THEN A LITTLE BIT AFTER AND THEN A LITTLE BIT AFTER THAT, THE VATICAN AS IT TENDS THAT, THE VATICAN AS IT TENDS TO DO, PUT OUT A VERY SPARE TO DO, PUT OUT A VERY SPARE STATEMENT.
STATEMENT.
THAT HAD POINTS OF COMMON THAT HAD POINTS OF COMMON INTEREST IN IT.
INTEREST IN IT.
IT HAD ALL THE INTERNATIONAL IT HAD ALL THE INTERNATIONAL STUFF AS WELL.
STUFF AS WELL.
THAT THEY HAD TALKED ABOUT.
THAT THEY HAD TALKED ABOUT.
THE MIDDLE EAST AND SO ON.
THE MIDDLE EAST AND SO ON.
BUT IT ALSO HAD THIS LINE BUT IT ALSO HAD THIS LINE SAYING THE TWO SIDES ALSO SAYING THE TWO SIDES ALSO DISCUSSED THEIR DIFFERENCES ON DISCUSSED THEIR DIFFERENCES ON RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, LIFE, AND RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, LIFE, AND CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTION.
CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTION.
AND WHAT THAT IS IS VATICAN AND WHAT THAT IS IS VATICAN SPEAK FOR ABORTION AND THE SPEAK FOR ABORTION AND THE EXEMPTIONS THAT CATHOLIC EXEMPTIONS THAT CATHOLIC INSTITUTIONS IN THIS COUNTRY INSTITUTIONS IN THIS COUNTRY WANT FROM THE AFFORDABLE CARE WANT FROM THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT REQUIREMENT THAT THEY COVER ACT REQUIREMENT THAT THEY COVER CONTRACEPTION.
CONTRACEPTION.
INCIDENTALLY THAT WEIRD FRASING INCIDENTALLY THAT WEIRD FRASING WAS ALSO BECAUSE THE VATICAN WAS ALSO BECAUSE THE VATICAN DID A GOOD COP, BAD COP ACT.
DID A GOOD COP, BAD COP ACT.
THE SECRETARY OF STATE WAS THE THE SECRETARY OF STATE WAS THE ONE WHO DID THE TOUGH STUFF ON ONE WHO DID THE TOUGH STUFF ON ABORTION.
ABORTION.
GWEN: AND ALSO, YOU TALKED GWEN: AND ALSO, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE POPE'S DOMESTIC ABOUT THE POPE'S DOMESTIC CONSTITUENCY THE AMERICAN CONSTITUENCY THE AMERICAN BISHOPS, RIGHT?
BISHOPS, RIGHT?
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
IT'S WRONG TO THINK OF THE POPE IT'S WRONG TO THINK OF THE POPE AS A POLITICIAN IN A POLITICAL AS A POLITICIAN IN A POLITICAL AGENDA BUT HE DOES HAVE A AGENDA BUT HE DOES HAVE A SPECIFIC POLITICAL AND SPECIFIC POLITICAL AND BUREAUCRATIC AGENDA WHICH IS BUREAUCRATIC AGENDA WHICH IS QUITE FAR REACHING WITH THE QUITE FAR REACHING WITH THE VATICAN AND PART OF THAT IS VATICAN AND PART OF THAT IS EMPOWERING BISHOPS EMPOWERING BISHOPS CONFERENCENESS EACH COUNTRY.
CONFERENCENESS EACH COUNTRY.
SO EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T KNOW SO EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH HE AGREES WITH THE HOW MUCH HE AGREES WITH THE APPROACH THE AMERICAN BISHOPS APPROACH THE AMERICAN BISHOPS HAVE TAKEN, HE DOES WANT TO HAVE TAKEN, HE DOES WANT TO DEFER TO THEM.
DEFER TO THEM.
AND BACK THEM UP AND THAT'S AND BACK THEM UP AND THAT'S EXACTLY -- EXACTLY -- >> ON THAT QUESTION, THOUGH, IN >> ON THAT QUESTION, THOUGH, IN TERMS OF WHAT PRESIDENT OBAMA TERMS OF WHAT PRESIDENT OBAMA COULD DO POSSIBLY WITH THE COULD DO POSSIBLY WITH THE POPE, HE MADE THE COMMENTS THAT POPE, HE MADE THE COMMENTS THAT WE JUST SAW ABOUT REALLY WE JUST SAW ABOUT REALLY THERE'S NO PRACTICAL THERE'S NO PRACTICAL PARTNERSHIP THAT MIGHT COME OUT PARTNERSHIP THAT MIGHT COME OUT OF THIS.
OF THIS.
BUT WHAT ABOUT ANY KIND OF BUT WHAT ABOUT ANY KIND OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR DIPLOMACY?
OPPORTUNITIES FOR DIPLOMACY?
I WOULD THINK GIVEN THE I WOULD THINK GIVEN THE PERSONALITIES WE'VE HAD.
PERSONALITIES WE'VE HAD.
>> THAT'S ACTUALLY THERE AND IF >> THAT'S ACTUALLY THERE AND IF YOU THINK OF IT THE HIGH WATER YOU THINK OF IT THE HIGH WATER MARK IN A SENSE IN MODERN TIMES MARK IN A SENSE IN MODERN TIMES WAS PRESIDENT REAGAN AND POPE WAS PRESIDENT REAGAN AND POPE JOHN PAUL II.
JOHN PAUL II.
THE POLISH POPE.
THE POLISH POPE.
AND THEY DID A WHOLE LOT OF AND THEY DID A WHOLE LOT OF STUFF IN EASTERN EUROPE.
STUFF IN EASTERN EUROPE.
THERE'S PROBABLY NOT AS MUCH THERE'S PROBABLY NOT AS MUCH OPPORTUNITY HERE.
OPPORTUNITY HERE.
AND IN FACT THE TWO -- THE AND IN FACT THE TWO -- THE VATICAN AND THE WHITE HOUSE VATICAN AND THE WHITE HOUSE DISAGREE ON SOME ISSUES IN DISAGREE ON SOME ISSUES IN SYRIA, FOR EXAMPLE.
SYRIA, FOR EXAMPLE.
BUT IN THE MIDDLE EAST THE BUT IN THE MIDDLE EAST THE VATICAN IS QUITE ENGAGED.
VATICAN IS QUITE ENGAGED.
THEY CAN DO SOME WORK THERE.
THEY CAN DO SOME WORK THERE.
IT IS THE VATICAN IS TRYING TO IT IS THE VATICAN IS TRYING TO GET THE SYRIAN REGIME OF BASHAR GET THE SYRIAN REGIME OF BASHAR AL-ASSAD TO BE MORE FORTHCOMING AL-ASSAD TO BE MORE FORTHCOMING IN NEGOTIATIONS.
IN NEGOTIATIONS.
THEY'RE NOT HAVING ANY MORE THEY'RE NOT HAVING ANY MORE LUCK, THOUGH, THAN THE RUSSIANS LUCK, THOUGH, THAN THE RUSSIANS ARE.
ARE.
>> THE PRESIDENT GAVE HIM, THE >> THE PRESIDENT GAVE HIM, THE POPE, A GIFT.
POPE, A GIFT.
THE POPE GAVE HIM A GIFT BACK.
THE POPE GAVE HIM A GIFT BACK.
WE ALWAYS READ PROBABLY MAYBE WE ALWAYS READ PROBABLY MAYBE TOO MUCH INTO THESE THINGS.
TOO MUCH INTO THESE THINGS.
BUT WHAT CAN WE TAKE FROM THE BUT WHAT CAN WE TAKE FROM THE CHOICE OF PRESENTS THAT THEY CHOICE OF PRESENTS THAT THEY GAVE TO EACH OTHER?
GAVE TO EACH OTHER?
>> ODDLY ENOUGH I'M MYSTIFIED >> ODDLY ENOUGH I'M MYSTIFIED BY THE PRESIDENT GIFT BECAUSE BY THE PRESIDENT GIFT BECAUSE IT WAS SOME SEEDS FROM MICHELLE IT WAS SOME SEEDS FROM MICHELLE OBAMA'S VEGETABLE GARDEN AND WE OBAMA'S VEGETABLE GARDEN AND WE DON'T KNOW IF THE POPE IS A DON'T KNOW IF THE POPE IS A GARDENER.
GARDENER.
AND A HAND-MADE SEED BOX AND AND A HAND-MADE SEED BOX AND MADE FROM THE TIMBERS OF THE MADE FROM THE TIMBERS OF THE FIRST CATHOLIC CATHEDRAL IN THE FIRST CATHOLIC CATHEDRAL IN THE UNITED STATES.
UNITED STATES.
GWEN: BALTIMORE.
GWEN: BALTIMORE.
>> BALTIMORE.
>> BALTIMORE.
THE POPE DID WHAT POPES USUALLY THE POPE DID WHAT POPES USUALLY DO WHICH WAS HE HANDED OVER A DO WHICH WAS HE HANDED OVER A COPY OF HIS LAST MAJOR COPY OF HIS LAST MAJOR COMMUNICATION.
COMMUNICATION.
IN THIS CASE IT WAS THE IN THIS CASE IT WAS THE APOSTOLIC LETTER THAT GOT APOSTOLIC LETTER THAT GOT FAMOUS BECAUSE THE NEWS LEAD OF FAMOUS BECAUSE THE NEWS LEAD OF IT WAS THIS WAS THE ONE WHERE IT WAS THIS WAS THE ONE WHERE THE POPE CONDEMNED TRICKLE DOWN THE POPE CONDEMNED TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS.
ECONOMICS.
THE PRESIDENT SAID THIS IS THE PRESIDENT SAID THIS IS WONDERFUL.
WONDERFUL.
WHEN I'M FRUSTRATED IN THE OVAL WHEN I'M FRUSTRATED IN THE OVAL OFFICE, I'LL READ THIS AND IT OFFICE, I'LL READ THIS AND IT WILL CALM ME DOWN.
WILL CALM ME DOWN.
WELL, MR. PRESIDENT, MAYBE IT WELL, MR. PRESIDENT, MAYBE IT WILL AND MAYBE IT WON'T.
WILL AND MAYBE IT WON'T.
BECAUSE THAT DOCUMENT IS IN THE BECAUSE THAT DOCUMENT IS IN THE FIRST CASE MOST OF IT IS AN FIRST CASE MOST OF IT IS AN EXHORTATION TO CATHOLICS TO GO EXHORTATION TO CATHOLICS TO GO OUT AND EVANGELIZE MORE.
OUT AND EVANGELIZE MORE.
BE INTERESTING TO SEE THE BE INTERESTING TO SEE THE PRESIDENT TAKE THAT ONE ON.
PRESIDENT TAKE THAT ONE ON.
BUT IT DOES HAVE A PRETTY FULL BUT IT DOES HAVE A PRETTY FULL THROATED DEFENSE OF TRADITIONAL THROATED DEFENSE OF TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHING ON CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHING ON ABORTION AND THESE OTHER ISSUES ABORTION AND THESE OTHER ISSUES OF LIFE.
OF LIFE.
>> DOYLE, YOU MENTIONED THE >> DOYLE, YOU MENTIONED THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT AND IN AFFORDABLE CARE ACT AND IN CONTROVERSY OVER CONTRACEPTION CONTROVERSY OVER CONTRACEPTION COVERAGE.
COVERAGE.
TO THE VATICAN DOES THAT ISSUE TO THE VATICAN DOES THAT ISSUE OUTWEIGH ANY BROADER MORAL OUTWEIGH ANY BROADER MORAL VALUE OF EXPANDING HEALTH VALUE OF EXPANDING HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE IN THE INSURANCE COVERAGE IN THE UNITED STATES?
UNITED STATES?
>> THAT IS A TERRIFIC QUESTION.
>> THAT IS A TERRIFIC QUESTION.
AND PROBABLY THE THEOLOGICALLY AND PROBABLY THE THEOLOGICALLY SOUND THING FOR ME TO SAY IS SOUND THING FOR ME TO SAY IS THAT THE VATICAN WOULD NOT WANT THAT THE VATICAN WOULD NOT WANT TO SAY WE PREFER A OVER B.
TO SAY WE PREFER A OVER B.
THAT CATHOLIC -- MORAL THEOLOGY THAT CATHOLIC -- MORAL THEOLOGY IS A SEAMLESS GARMENT.
IS A SEAMLESS GARMENT.
THAT'S ACTUALLY THE TERM OF THAT'S ACTUALLY THE TERM OF ART.
ART.
BUT IT IS INTERESTING TO NOTE BUT IT IS INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT IN OTHER COUNTRIES, THAT IN OTHER COUNTRIES, ACTUALLY, CATHOLIC INSTITUTIONS ACTUALLY, CATHOLIC INSTITUTIONS PAY TAXES THAT ACTUALLY COVER PAY TAXES THAT ACTUALLY COVER CONTRACEPTION.
CONTRACEPTION.
IN SOME CASES EVEN ABORTION.
IN SOME CASES EVEN ABORTION.
IT IS POSSIBLE TO TRY AND MAKE IT IS POSSIBLE TO TRY AND MAKE A GUESS ON THIS.
A GUESS ON THIS.
THAT THE POPE MIGHT -- THIS THAT THE POPE MIGHT -- THIS PARTICULAR POPE MIGHT PUT MORE PARTICULAR POPE MIGHT PUT MORE EMPHASIS ON THE COVERAGE THAN EMPHASIS ON THE COVERAGE THAN ON THE CONTRACEPTION ISSUE ON THE CONTRACEPTION ISSUE BECAUSE HE'S DOWNPLAYED AND A BECAUSE HE'S DOWNPLAYED AND A DIFFERENT EMPHASIS BUT I'M WAY DIFFERENT EMPHASIS BUT I'M WAY OUT ON A LIMB.
OUT ON A LIMB.
GWEN: FATHER MCMANUS WEIGHS IN.
GWEN: FATHER MCMANUS WEIGHS IN.
>> I'M GOING TO HEAR FROM A >> I'M GOING TO HEAR FROM A NUMBER OF COMMITTEES ANY MINUTE NUMBER OF COMMITTEES ANY MINUTE NOW.
NOW.
GWEN: AND IT WON'T BE GOOD.
GWEN: AND IT WON'T BE GOOD.
THE ROLLOUT OF THE AFFORDABLE THE ROLLOUT OF THE AFFORDABLE CARRY ACT, HEALTH INSURANCE CARRY ACT, HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGES, HAS ENCOUNTERED EXCHANGES, HAS ENCOUNTERED SEVERAL WELL DOCUMENTED SEVERAL WELL DOCUMENTED PROBLEMS.
PROBLEMS.
BUT THIS WEEK FINALLY GOOD BUT THIS WEEK FINALLY GOOD NEWS.
NEWS.
MORE THAN SIX MILLION PEOPLE MORE THAN SIX MILLION PEOPLE WILL HAVE SIGNED UP BY MONDAY'S WILL HAVE SIGNED UP BY MONDAY'S DEADLINE AND ANYONE IN LINE DEADLINE AND ANYONE IN LINE GETS ANOTHER COUPLE EXTRA WEEKS GETS ANOTHER COUPLE EXTRA WEEKS TO ENROLL.
TO ENROLL.
BUT A LOT OF QUESTIONS STILL BUT A LOT OF QUESTIONS STILL REMAIN.
REMAIN.
WHO'S SIGNING UP AND WHO'S WHO'S SIGNING UP AND WHO'S PAYING THE PREMIUMS?
PAYING THE PREMIUMS?
AND IS IT TOO SOON FOR THE AND IS IT TOO SOON FOR THE ADMINISTRATION TO BE RUNNING A ADMINISTRATION TO BE RUNNING A VICTORY LAP?
VICTORY LAP?
FIRST, LAST QUESTION FIRST, FOR FIRST, LAST QUESTION FIRST, FOR YOU, ALEX.
YOU, ALEX.
>> I THINK THEY CAN TAKE A >> I THINK THEY CAN TAKE A SHORT VICTORY LAP.
SHORT VICTORY LAP.
THIS IS A BIG THIS IS A BIG CONSIDERING WHERE THEY STARTED CONSIDERING WHERE THEY STARTED FROM BACK IN OCTOBER AND FROM BACK IN OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER.
NOVEMBER.
THEY HAD HEALTH INSURANCE THEY HAD HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGES ACROSS THE COUNTRY EXCHANGES ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT DIDN'T WORK.
THAT DIDN'T WORK.
NOBODY COULD ENROLL FOR NOBODY COULD ENROLL FOR PRACTICALLY TWO MONTHS.
PRACTICALLY TWO MONTHS.
THEY MANAGED TO CATCH UP AND IN THEY MANAGED TO CATCH UP AND IN FOUR MONTHS TO JUST SHY OF THE FOUR MONTHS TO JUST SHY OF THE ORIGINAL PROJECTION FOR ORIGINAL PROJECTION FOR ENROLLMENT UNDER THIS LAW.
ENROLLMENT UNDER THIS LAW.
BUT AS YOU NOTED, THERE ARE A BUT AS YOU NOTED, THERE ARE A LOT OF OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS.
LOT OF OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS.
HOW MANY OF THESE PEOPLE, THESE HOW MANY OF THESE PEOPLE, THESE SIX MILLION HAVE ACTUALLY PAID SIX MILLION HAVE ACTUALLY PAID THEIR PREMIUM TO AN INSURER?
THEIR PREMIUM TO AN INSURER?
AND HOW MANY OF THEM WERE AND HOW MANY OF THEM WERE UNINSURED BEFORE THEY WENT INTO UNINSURED BEFORE THEY WENT INTO THE EXCHANGES?
THE EXCHANGES?
GWEN: TACKLE ONE AT A TIME.
GWEN: TACKLE ONE AT A TIME.
START WITH THE FIRST ONE ABOUT START WITH THE FIRST ONE ABOUT PREMIUMS.
PREMIUMS.
>> SURE THING.
>> SURE THING.
BOTH OF THESE QUESTIONS I BOTH OF THESE QUESTIONS I SHOULD SAY, WE DON'T HAVE VERY SHOULD SAY, WE DON'T HAVE VERY GOOD ANSWERS.
GOOD ANSWERS.
WE KNOW THAT SOME FRACTION OF WE KNOW THAT SOME FRACTION OF PEOPLE WHO SIGNED UP FOR THE PEOPLE WHO SIGNED UP FOR THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT THROUGH THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT THROUGH THE EXCHANGES DIDN'T PAY A PREMIUM EXCHANGES DIDN'T PAY A PREMIUM TO AN INSURER.
TO AN INSURER.
WE DON'T KNOW WHY.
WE DON'T KNOW WHY.
IT COULD BE THAT THEY SIGNED UP IT COULD BE THAT THEY SIGNED UP INITIALLY IN THE EXCHANGE AND INITIALLY IN THE EXCHANGE AND THEN THEY DECIDED, I'M JUST THEN THEY DECIDED, I'M JUST GOING TO DEAL DIRECTLY WITH AN GOING TO DEAL DIRECTLY WITH AN INSURER.
INSURER.
AND SIGN UP THAT WAY.
AND SIGN UP THAT WAY.
THE UNINSURED QUESTION IS A THE UNINSURED QUESTION IS A REALISTICLER.
REALISTICLER.
THE ADMINISTRATION HASN'T GIVEN THE ADMINISTRATION HASN'T GIVEN US ANY INFORMATION ON THAT OF US ANY INFORMATION ON THAT OF COURSE.
COURSE.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO GLEAN LITTLE SO WE'RE TRYING TO GLEAN LITTLE HINTS.
HINTS.
FOR EXAMPLE, IN NEW YORK TODAY, FOR EXAMPLE, IN NEW YORK TODAY, SAID THAT IN THEIR EXCHANGE, SAID THAT IN THEIR EXCHANGE, ABOUT 70% OF THE FOLKS WHO WERE ABOUT 70% OF THE FOLKS WHO WERE SIGNING UP PREVIOUSLY WERE SIGNING UP PREVIOUSLY WERE UNINSURED.
UNINSURED.
IT WAS SORT OF A SURPRISING IT WAS SORT OF A SURPRISING NUMBER FOR NEW YORK.
NUMBER FOR NEW YORK.
WHICH DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF WHICH DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF UNINSURED PEOPLE TO BEGIN WITH.
UNINSURED PEOPLE TO BEGIN WITH.
>> WHAT ABOUT THE WHITE HOUSE?
>> WHAT ABOUT THE WHITE HOUSE?
THE WHITE HOUSE REALLY HAS MADE THE WHITE HOUSE REALLY HAS MADE THIS A PRIORITY.
THIS A PRIORITY.
THE PRESIDENT IS ON A TRIP.
THE PRESIDENT IS ON A TRIP.
HE'S -- CONFRONTATION OVER THE HE'S -- CONFRONTATION OVER THE COLD WAR MEETING WITH THE POPE.
COLD WAR MEETING WITH THE POPE.
BUT EVERY DAY THEY'RE TWEETING.
BUT EVERY DAY THEY'RE TWEETING.
THEY'RE TALKING TO SPORTS THEY'RE TALKING TO SPORTS SHOWS.
SHOWS.
WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO GET WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO GET PEOPLE ENROLLED?
PEOPLE ENROLLED?
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH.
SO THIS WEEK THEY'VE HAD SO THIS WEEK THEY'VE HAD OFFICIALS FROM THE OFFICIALS FROM THE ADMINISTRATION DISPATCHED ALL ADMINISTRATION DISPATCHED ALL OVER THE COUNTRY TO DO WHATEVER OVER THE COUNTRY TO DO WHATEVER THEY CAN DO TO HELP, I GUESS, THEY CAN DO TO HELP, I GUESS, PEOPLE GET ENROLLED ON SITE.
PEOPLE GET ENROLLED ON SITE.
GWEN: AND THE SIX MILLION MARK GWEN: AND THE SIX MILLION MARK WAS TS, HITHE PRESIDENT MADE WAS TS, HITHE PRESIDENT MADE SURE HE ANNOUNCED IT FROM SURE HE ANNOUNCED IT FROM ITALY.
ITALY.
>> THEY PUT HIM ON A CONFERENCE >> THEY PUT HIM ON A CONFERENCE CALL WITH SEVERAL THOUSAND CALL WITH SEVERAL THOUSAND WORKERS, VOLUNTEERS AND PAID WORKERS, VOLUNTEERS AND PAID WORKERS WHO WERE HELPING TO WORKERS WHO WERE HELPING TO SIGN PEOPLE UP FOR THIS LAW.
SIGN PEOPLE UP FOR THIS LAW.
AND THEN THEY PROCEEDED TO MAKE AND THEN THEY PROCEEDED TO MAKE R TAKE THEIR VICTORY -- TO TAKE R TAKE THEIR VICTORY -- TO TAKE THEIR VICTORY LAP.
THEIR VICTORY LAP.
>> SO MUCH DISPARITY IN TERMS >> SO MUCH DISPARITY IN TERMS OF HOW MANY PEOPLE SIGNED UP OF HOW MANY PEOPLE SIGNED UP AND DOES SO MUCH DEPEND ON THE AND DOES SO MUCH DEPEND ON THE MACHINERY OF THE STATES AND THE MACHINERY OF THE STATES AND THE COMPETENCE OF THE STATES AND COMPETENCE OF THE STATES AND MORE POLITICALLY, THE STATE MORE POLITICALLY, THE STATE LEADERS ARE BUYING INTO IT?
LEADERS ARE BUYING INTO IT?
>> IT DOES TO SOME EXTENT.
>> IT DOES TO SOME EXTENT.
BUT THERE ARE SOME CURIOUS BUT THERE ARE SOME CURIOUS THINGS HAPPENING AROUND THE THINGS HAPPENING AROUND THE COUNTRY.
COUNTRY.
IN FLORIDA, FOR EXAMPLE, A LOT IN FLORIDA, FOR EXAMPLE, A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE SIGNED UP FOR OF PEOPLE HAVE SIGNED UP FOR THIS LAW.
THIS LAW.
FLORIDA IS ACTUALLY, I BELIEVE, FLORIDA IS ACTUALLY, I BELIEVE, THE THIRD MOST SIGNED UP.
THE THIRD MOST SIGNED UP.
CORRECTION, THE SECOND MOST IN CORRECTION, THE SECOND MOST IN THE COUNTRY.
THE COUNTRY.
DESPITE HAVING A GOVERNOR AND A DESPITE HAVING A GOVERNOR AND A LEGISLATURE THAT OPPOSE THE LEGISLATURE THAT OPPOSE THE LAW.
LAW.
>> IS IT AN AGE THING MAYBE?
>> IS IT AN AGE THING MAYBE?
>> IT MIGHT BE.
>> IT MIGHT BE.
>> OLD PEOPLE?
>> OLD PEOPLE?
>> MIGHT BE MORE PEOPLE PRONE >> MIGHT BE MORE PEOPLE PRONE TO SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT TO SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT HONESTLY.
HONESTLY.
THE PRESIDENT WON FLORIDA IN THE PRESIDENT WON FLORIDA IN 2012.
2012.
>> LET ME ASK A REAL NUTS AND >> LET ME ASK A REAL NUTS AND BOLTS QUESTION.
BOLTS QUESTION.
WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PEOPLE WHO WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PEOPLE WHO MISSED THE DEADLINE?
MISSED THE DEADLINE?
REALLY INTERESTING POLLING THAT REALLY INTERESTING POLLING THAT EN: WHICH DEADLINE?
EN: WHICH DEADLINE?
NY REALLY NY REALLY INTERESTING POLLING THAT SHOWS INTERESTING POLLING THAT SHOWS UNINSURED PEOPLE OFTEN ARE KIND UNINSURED PEOPLE OFTEN ARE KIND OF LOW NEWS INFORMATION PEOPLE.
OF LOW NEWS INFORMATION PEOPLE.
A LOT OF THEM DIDN'T KNOW THE A LOT OF THEM DIDN'T KNOW THE DEADLINE AND AN INTERESTING DEADLINE AND AN INTERESTING POLL IN TEXAS.
POLL IN TEXAS.
THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT THIS WASN'T AVAILABLE IN THAT THIS WASN'T AVAILABLE IN TEXAS BECAUSE THE TEXAS STATE TEXAS BECAUSE THE TEXAS STATE GOVERNMENT WAS SO HOSTILE TO GOVERNMENT WAS SO HOSTILE TO IT.
IT.
OK. OK.
IF THEY FIGURE OUT NEXT MONTH IF THEY FIGURE OUT NEXT MONTH THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS, ARE THEY OUT OF LUCK FOR THIS, ARE THEY OUT OF LUCK FOR THE YEAR?
THE YEAR?
DO THEY JUST HAVE TO PAY -- DO THEY JUST HAVE TO PAY -- >> IF YOU'RE FORTUNATE ENOUGH >> IF YOU'RE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO LIVE IN A STATE THAT'S TO LIVE IN A STATE THAT'S EXPANDED MEDICAID, AND YOU'RE EXPANDED MEDICAID, AND YOU'RE ELIGIBLE FOR THAT PROGRAM, YOU ELIGIBLE FOR THAT PROGRAM, YOU CAN ACTUALLY SIGN UP YEAR CAN ACTUALLY SIGN UP YEAR AROUND.
AROUND.
THERE'S NO CUTOFF FOR THAT THERE'S NO CUTOFF FOR THAT PROGRAM.
PROGRAM.
BUT IF YOU NEED TO SIGN UP FOR BUT IF YOU NEED TO SIGN UP FOR PRIVATE INSURANCE, YOU MAKE PRIVATE INSURANCE, YOU MAKE MORE THAN THE POVERTY LEVEL, MORE THAN THE POVERTY LEVEL, ESSENTIALLY, THE DEADLINE IS ESSENTIALLY, THE DEADLINE IS MARCH 31.
MARCH 31.
AND SUPPOSEDLY YOU WOULDN'T BE AND SUPPOSEDLY YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SIGN UP UNTIL NOVEMBER ABLE TO SIGN UP UNTIL NOVEMBER FOR COVERAGE IN JANUARY.
FOR COVERAGE IN JANUARY.
BUT THAT DEADLINE KEEPS GETTING BUT THAT DEADLINE KEEPS GETTING A LITTLE BIT -- A LITTLE BIT A LITTLE BIT -- A LITTLE BIT SLIPPERY.
SLIPPERY.
THEY SAID THIS WEEK THAT THEY SAID THIS WEEK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO OFFER AN THEY'RE GOING TO OFFER AN EXTENSION TO ANYBODY WHO CLAIMS EXTENSION TO ANYBODY WHO CLAIMS TO HAVE HAD TECHNICAL PROBLEMS.
TO HAVE HAD TECHNICAL PROBLEMS.
DURING THIS ENROLLMENT PERIOD.
DURING THIS ENROLLMENT PERIOD.
PRESUMABLY WE ASKED SEVERAL PRESUMABLY WE ASKED SEVERAL TIMES WHAT HAPPENS IF SOMEBODY TIMES WHAT HAPPENS IF SOMEBODY GOES TO THE EXCHANGES ON APRIL GOES TO THE EXCHANGES ON APRIL 3 FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER.
3 FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER.
AND SAYS I HAD SOME TECHNICAL AND SAYS I HAD SOME TECHNICAL PROBLEMS.
PROBLEMS.
I WOULD LIKE TO SIGN UP FOR I WOULD LIKE TO SIGN UP FOR INSURANCE.
INSURANCE.
ARE THERE CONSEQUENCES IF THEY ARE THERE CONSEQUENCES IF THEY LIE?
LIE?
THEY WOULDN'T ANSWER THIS THEY WOULDN'T ANSWER THIS QUESTION.
QUESTION.
GWEN: BECAUSE WE KNOW THERE ARE GWEN: BECAUSE WE KNOW THERE ARE NONE.
NONE.
I WAS LISTENING TO THAT SAME I WAS LISTENING TO THAT SAME PHONE CALL AND FOUND A WAY NOT PHONE CALL AND FOUND A WAY NOT TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION ABOUT A TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION ABOUT A DOZEN DIFFERENT WAYS.
DOZEN DIFFERENT WAYS.
BUT LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING.
BUT LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING.
IN ORDER FOR THIS PROGRAM TO IN ORDER FOR THIS PROGRAM TO WORK, GENERALLY, YOU NEED WORK, GENERALLY, YOU NEED YOUNGER, HEALTHIER PEOPLE TO YOUNGER, HEALTHIER PEOPLE TO SIGN UP.
SIGN UP.
IS THERE ANY SIGN THAT AMONG IS THERE ANY SIGN THAT AMONG THESE SIX MILLION, THAT -- WHAT THESE SIX MILLION, THAT -- WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THEM ARE THOSE PERCENTAGE OF THEM ARE THOSE YOUNGER, HEALTHIER TARGET YOUNGER, HEALTHIER TARGET AUDIENCES?
AUDIENCES?
>> HERE'S SOMETHING TO KEEP IN >> HERE'S SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND.
MIND.
THE INSURANCE POOLS THE WAY THE INSURANCE POOLS THE WAY THEY WORK EACH COMPANY COMBINES THEY WORK EACH COMPANY COMBINES THE PEOPLE THEY SIGN UP ON THE THE PEOPLE THEY SIGN UP ON THE EXCHANGE, AND THE PEOPLE THEY EXCHANGE, AND THE PEOPLE THEY SIGN UP OFF THE EXCHANGE.
SIGN UP OFF THE EXCHANGE.
IT'S ALL ONE BIG POOL NOW.
IT'S ALL ONE BIG POOL NOW.
OFF THE EXCHANGE, IT LOOKS LIKE OFF THE EXCHANGE, IT LOOKS LIKE THE ENROLLEES ARE YOUNGER THAN THE ENROLLEES ARE YOUNGER THAN FOLKS WHO ARE SIGNING UP ON THE FOLKS WHO ARE SIGNING UP ON THE EXCHANGE.
EXCHANGE.
DON'T EXACTLY KNOW WHY.
DON'T EXACTLY KNOW WHY.
EXCEPT PERHAPS WEALTHIER, EXCEPT PERHAPS WEALTHIER, YOUNGER ADULTS ARE CHOOSING TO YOUNGER ADULTS ARE CHOOSING TO DEAL DIRECTLY WITH THE DEAL DIRECTLY WITH THE INSURANCE COMPANIES OR BROKER.
INSURANCE COMPANIES OR BROKER.
GWEN: THAT'S INTERESTING.
GWEN: THAT'S INTERESTING.
AND THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO ADD UP AND THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO ADD UP WHATEVER IT IS THEY NEED TO DO WHATEVER IT IS THEY NEED TO DO NEXT.
NEXT.
>> STILL NOT AS YOUNG AS THEY >> STILL NOT AS YOUNG AS THEY WOULD REALLY LIKE BEFORE THE WOULD REALLY LIKE BEFORE THE LAW LAUNCHED.
LAW LAUNCHED.
GWEN: THEY ALSO DIDN'T THINK GWEN: THEY ALSO DIDN'T THINK THEY WERE GOING TO GET TO SIX THEY WERE GOING TO GET TO SIX MILLION.
MILLION.
SO THERE YOU GO.
SO THERE YOU GO.
THANK YOU, ALEX, AND WELCOME TO THANK YOU, ALEX, AND WELCOME TO "WASHINGTON WEEK."
"WASHINGTON WEEK."
AT THE SUPREME COURT, A AT THE SUPREME COURT, A DIFFERENT FIGHT ABOUT HEALTH DIFFERENT FIGHT ABOUT HEALTH CARE.
CARE.
BUT ALSO ABOUT ABORTION AND BUT ALSO ABOUT ABORTION AND FREEDOM OF RELIGION.
FREEDOM OF RELIGION.
AND HOW CORPORATIONS ARE AND HOW CORPORATIONS ARE DEFINED, NOT TOO MUCH ON ONE DEFINED, NOT TOO MUCH ON ONE PLATE, RIGHT?
PLATE, RIGHT?
THE ARGUMENTS LASTED ONLY 90 THE ARGUMENTS LASTED ONLY 90 MINUTES BUT THE FIGHT HAS BEEN MINUTES BUT THE FIGHT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS.
GOING ON FOR YEARS.
HOW DID IT PLAY OUT THIS TIME HOW DID IT PLAY OUT THIS TIME AT THE COURT, JOAN?
AT THE COURT, JOAN?
>> WHEN YOU JUST SAID ONLY 90 >> WHEN YOU JUST SAID ONLY 90 MINUTES THAT'S 30 MINUTES MORE MINUTES THAT'S 30 MINUTES MORE THAN WE USUALLY HAVE UP THERE THAN WE USUALLY HAVE UP THERE ON A CASE.
ON A CASE.
GWEN: IT SEEMED LIKE A SHORT GWEN: IT SEEMED LIKE A SHORT TIME TO US BUT NOT TO YOU.
TIME TO US BUT NOT TO YOU.
>> 90 MINUTES, LOOK AT ALL THAT >> 90 MINUTES, LOOK AT ALL THAT COMES INTO THIS BATTLE.
COMES INTO THIS BATTLE.
WE'VE GOT -- THIS IS THE FIRST WE'VE GOT -- THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE'VE M -- WE'VE HAD A TIME WE'VE M -- WE'VE HAD A CHALLENGE TO THE OBAMACARE LAW CHALLENGE TO THE OBAMACARE LAW SINCE 2012 AND IT INVOLVES SINCE 2012 AND IT INVOLVES RELIGIOUS RIGHTS AND CORPORATE RELIGIOUS RIGHTS AND CORPORATE RIGHTS THAT INVOKES THE 2010 RIGHTS THAT INVOKES THE 2010 CITIZENS UNITED RULING THAT SO CITIZENS UNITED RULING THAT SO DEFINED THIS ROBERTS COURT.
DEFINED THIS ROBERTS COURT.
REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.
REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.
SHADES OF ABORTION OVERHANGING SHADES OF ABORTION OVERHANGING THIS.
THIS.
SO A LOT GOING ON WHICH IS ONE SO A LOT GOING ON WHICH IS ONE OF THE THINGS THE JUSTICES OF THE THINGS THE JUSTICES EXTENDED THE TIME.
EXTENDED THE TIME.
WE ALSO HAD TWO FAMILIAR WE ALSO HAD TWO FAMILIAR ADVOCATES UP THERE.
ADVOCATES UP THERE.
DON VARELI, SOLICITOR GENERAL DON VARELI, SOLICITOR GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES AND PAUL OF THE UNITED STATES AND PAUL CLEMENT WHO HAD CHALLENGED THE CLEMENT WHO HAD CHALLENGED THE HEALTH CARE LAW IN 2012 AND WAS HEALTH CARE LAW IN 2012 AND WAS A SOLICITOR GENERAL UNDER A SOLICITOR GENERAL UNDER GEORGE W. BUSH.
GEORGE W. BUSH.
THE QUESTION WAS WHETHER THE QUESTION WAS WHETHER FOR-PROFIT CORPORATIONS CAN FOR-PROFIT CORPORATIONS CAN CLAIM A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION TO CLAIM A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION TO THE CONTRACEPTIVE MANDATE BASED THE CONTRACEPTIVE MANDATE BASED ON THE EMPLOYER'S RELIGIOUS ON THE EMPLOYER'S RELIGIOUS VIEWS.
VIEWS.
NOW EVERYBODY SHOULD KNOW THAT NOW EVERYBODY SHOULD KNOW THAT RIGHT NOW CHURCHES AND OTHER RIGHT NOW CHURCHES AND OTHER RELIGIOUS ENTITIES ALREADY HAVE RELIGIOUS ENTITIES ALREADY HAVE AN EXCEPTION FROM THE AN EXCEPTION FROM THE REQUIREMENT UNDER THE OBAMA LAW REQUIREMENT UNDER THE OBAMA LAW THAT YOU PROVIDE INSURANCE THAT YOU PROVIDE INSURANCE COVERAGE THAT INCLUDES BIRTH COVERAGE THAT INCLUDES BIRTH CONTROL.
CONTROL.
BUT THESE ARE COMPANIES THAT BUT THESE ARE COMPANIES THAT ARE FOR-PROFIT AND JUST HAPPEN ARE FOR-PROFIT AND JUST HAPPEN TO BE RUN BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO BE RUN BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE VERY STRONG RELIGIOUS VIEWS.
VERY STRONG RELIGIOUS VIEWS.
IN THIS CASE THEY SAY THAT OF IN THIS CASE THEY SAY THAT OF ALL THE BIRTH CONTROL THAT ALL THE BIRTH CONTROL THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO COVER THERE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO COVER THERE ARE SOME METHODS THAT THEY FELT ARE SOME METHODS THAT THEY FELT WERE AKIN TO ABORTION.
WERE AKIN TO ABORTION.
NOW, THE SCIENCE, THERE'S A LOT NOW, THE SCIENCE, THERE'S A LOT OF DISPUTE OVER THE SCIENCE.
OF DISPUTE OVER THE SCIENCE.
BUT FOR PURPOSES OF THIS CASE, BUT FOR PURPOSES OF THIS CASE, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS SAYING, YES, THESE PEOPLE HAVE SAYING, YES, THESE PEOPLE HAVE DEEPLY FELT RELIGIOUS VIEWS.
DEEPLY FELT RELIGIOUS VIEWS.
BUT WE STILL DON'T THINK THAT BUT WE STILL DON'T THINK THAT THEY SHOULD BE EXEMPT.
THEY SHOULD BE EXEMPT.
BECAUSE FOR-PROFIT CORPORATIONS BECAUSE FOR-PROFIT CORPORATIONS SHOULDN'T BE EXEMPT FROM THIS.
SHOULDN'T BE EXEMPT FROM THIS.
THIS IS A COMPREHENSIVE SCHEME.
THIS IS A COMPREHENSIVE SCHEME.
PUBLIC HEALTH IS AT ISSUE.
PUBLIC HEALTH IS AT ISSUE.
AND THERE ARE OTHER WAYS THAT AND THERE ARE OTHER WAYS THAT -- THEY SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO -- THEY SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO EXERCISE THEIR RELIGIOUS RIGHTS EXERCISE THEIR RELIGIOUS RIGHTS THIS WAY.
THIS WAY.
>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE >> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE EMPLOYER'S RELIGIOUS RIGHTS AND EMPLOYER'S RELIGIOUS RIGHTS AND SOMETHING THAT GOES BACK A LONG SOMETHING THAT GOES BACK A LONG WAY.
WAY.
WHAT ABOUT THE EMPLOYEE'S WHAT ABOUT THE EMPLOYEE'S RELIGIOUS RIGHTS?
RELIGIOUS RIGHTS?
DOES THAT COME INTO PLAY?
DOES THAT COME INTO PLAY?
IS SOMEBODY ADVOCATING FOR IS SOMEBODY ADVOCATING FOR THEM?
THEM?
>> OUTSIDE ON THE COURTHOUSE >> OUTSIDE ON THE COURTHOUSE STEPS PLENTY OF WOMEN GROUPS STEPS PLENTY OF WOMEN GROUPS TALKING ABOUT EQUALITY AND TALKING ABOUT EQUALITY AND WOMEN'S RIGHTS TO BIRTH WOMEN'S RIGHTS TO BIRTH CONTROL.
CONTROL.
BUT FOR THE LEGAL QUESTION, IT BUT FOR THE LEGAL QUESTION, IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO WHAT THESE REALLY COMES DOWN TO WHAT THESE EMPLOYERS CAN ASSERT.
EMPLOYERS CAN ASSERT.
NOTABLY UNDER A 1993 LAW THAT NOTABLY UNDER A 1993 LAW THAT SAYS THAT GOVERNMENT CAN SAYS THAT GOVERNMENT CAN INFRINGE ON RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.
INFRINGE ON RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.
AND IT'S A QUESTION OF DO THESE AND IT'S A QUESTION OF DO THESE PEOPLE QUALIFY FOR IT?
PEOPLE QUALIFY FOR IT?
BUT THERE'S A REAL CONFLICT BUT THERE'S A REAL CONFLICT THERE.
THERE.
AND WITH THE OBAMA AND WITH THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION SAYS IS THIS IS ADMINISTRATION SAYS IS THIS IS A MATTER OF WOMEN'S PUBLIC A MATTER OF WOMEN'S PUBLIC HEALTH AND VERY IMPORTANT.
HEALTH AND VERY IMPORTANT.
WE ALL KNOW HOW IMPORTANT THE WE ALL KNOW HOW IMPORTANT THE REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS CAN BE TO REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS CAN BE TO FAMILIES, TO EMPLOYEES, TO FAMILIES, TO EMPLOYEES, TO FRANKLY THE NATION'S OVERALL FRANKLY THE NATION'S OVERALL PUBLIC HEALTH.
PUBLIC HEALTH.
BUT THE QUESTION WAS MORE WHAT BUT THE QUESTION WAS MORE WHAT -- WHAT'S THE RELIGIOUS -- WHAT'S THE RELIGIOUS EMPLOYERS?
EMPLOYERS?
IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE YOUR IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE YOUR QUESTION GOES TO PART TWO.
QUESTION GOES TO PART TWO.
IF THE COURT SAYS THAT THESE IF THE COURT SAYS THAT THESE EMPLOYERS CAN BE EXEMPT, AT EMPLOYERS CAN BE EXEMPT, AT LEAST BRING A CLAIM, A SECOND LEAST BRING A CLAIM, A SECOND QUESTION KICKS IN, AND THAT QUESTION KICKS IN, AND THAT WHETHER THE GOVERNMENT STILL WHETHER THE GOVERNMENT STILL HAS A COMPELLING INTEREST TO HAS A COMPELLING INTEREST TO SAY NO, YOU STILL HAVE TO ABIDE SAY NO, YOU STILL HAVE TO ABIDE BY IT?
BY IT?
A TWO-PART QUESTION.
A TWO-PART QUESTION.
AND YOUR QUESTION COMES IN ON AND YOUR QUESTION COMES IN ON THE SECOND PART.
THE SECOND PART.
>> JOAN, DOES IT MATTER WHAT >> JOAN, DOES IT MATTER WHAT KIND OF CORPORATION WE'RE KIND OF CORPORATION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT?
TALKING ABOUT?
I GATHER THIS WAS A CLOSELY I GATHER THIS WAS A CLOSELY HELD FAMILY HELD CORPORATION.
HELD FAMILY HELD CORPORATION.
SO YOU GOT THE GAMUT FROM A SO YOU GOT THE GAMUT FROM A SOLE PROPRIETORSHIP DRUGSTORE SOLE PROPRIETORSHIP DRUGSTORE TO GENERAL MOTORS.
TO GENERAL MOTORS.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT.
RIGHT.
RIGHT.
AND THESE ARE TWO FAMILIES, AND THESE ARE TWO FAMILIES, FAMILY RUN COMPANIES.
FAMILY RUN COMPANIES.
CLOSELY HELD.
CLOSELY HELD.
ONE IN OKLAHOMA.
ONE IN OKLAHOMA.
BASED IN OKLAHOMA.
BASED IN OKLAHOMA.
HOBBY LOBBY AN ARTS AND CRAFTS HOBBY LOBBY AN ARTS AND CRAFTS SCORE RUN BY PEOPLE WHO ARE SCORE RUN BY PEOPLE WHO ARE EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS AND THE EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS AND THE OTHER A WOODWORKING FAMILY IN OTHER A WOODWORKING FAMILY IN PENNSYLVANIA RUN BY MENNENITES.
PENNSYLVANIA RUN BY MENNENITES.
AND CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS AND CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS SEEMED VERY SYMPATHETIC TO THE SEEMED VERY SYMPATHETIC TO THE -- THEIR CLAIMS.
-- THEIR CLAIMS.
DID STRESS, WELL, THIS WOULD BE DID STRESS, WELL, THIS WOULD BE FOR CLOSELY HELD CORPORATIONS.
FOR CLOSELY HELD CORPORATIONS.
WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT G.M.
WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT G.M.
>> THE LEBRALS ON THE COURT >> THE LEBRALS ON THE COURT RAISED THIS ISSUE THAT IF THIS RAISED THIS ISSUE THAT IF THIS -- IF THIS RULING WERE TO GO IN -- IF THIS RULING WERE TO GO IN THE FAVOR OF THESE COMPANIES, THE FAVOR OF THESE COMPANIES, IT MIGHT OPEN THE DOOR TO OTHER IT MIGHT OPEN THE DOOR TO OTHER COMPANIES DECIDING NOT TO COVER COMPANIES DECIDING NOT TO COVER THINGS LIKE VACCINATIONS OR THINGS LIKE VACCINATIONS OR MAYBE EVEN SURGERY FOR SOME MAYBE EVEN SURGERY FOR SOME THINGS.
THINGS.
WAS THERE ANY RESPONSE?
WAS THERE ANY RESPONSE?
>> WELL, THAT QUESTION WAS >> WELL, THAT QUESTION WAS ASKED BY JUSTICES ELENA KAGAN ASKED BY JUSTICES ELENA KAGAN AND SONYA SOTOMAYOR.
AND SONYA SOTOMAYOR.
AND GOING BACK TO THE AND GOING BACK TO THE GOVERNMENT -- TO PAUL CLEMENT'S GOVERNMENT -- TO PAUL CLEMENT'S POSITION ABOUT JUST WHOSE POSITION ABOUT JUST WHOSE RIGHTS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT RIGHTS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE HE BRUSHED THEM OFF SAYING HERE HE BRUSHED THEM OFF SAYING NO, THAT WOULD NOT -- WE'RE NOT NO, THAT WOULD NOT -- WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT KIND OF TALKING ABOUT THAT KIND OF SLIPPERY SLOPE HERE.
SLIPPERY SLOPE HERE.
AS THE GOVERNMENT IS AS THE GOVERNMENT IS CONTENDING.
CONTENDING.
BECAUSE WE STILL HAVE TO LOOK BECAUSE WE STILL HAVE TO LOOK AT WHETHER THE GOVERNMENT WOULD AT WHETHER THE GOVERNMENT WOULD HAVE A COMPELLING INTEREST IN HAVE A COMPELLING INTEREST IN VACCINES.
VACCINES.
AND THAT'S NO QUESTION HERE.
AND THAT'S NO QUESTION HERE.
GWEN: IT SHOULD BE -- SO GWEN: IT SHOULD BE -- SO JUSTICE KENNEDY IN THAT SWING JUSTICE KENNEDY IN THAT SWING SEAT AGAIN AND SOUNDED LIKE THE SEAT AGAIN AND SOUNDED LIKE THE COURT WAS MORE SYMPATHETIC TO COURT WAS MORE SYMPATHETIC TO THE CORPORATION.
THE CORPORATION.
>> IT WAS.
>> IT WAS.
AND JUSTICE KENNEDY WAS THE ONE AND JUSTICE KENNEDY WAS THE ONE WHO BROUGHT UP ABORTION.
WHO BROUGHT UP ABORTION.
SAYING WOULDN'T -- IF WE -- IF SAYING WOULDN'T -- IF WE -- IF WE RULE FOR YOU, FEDERAL WE RULE FOR YOU, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WOULDN'T WE BE GOVERNMENT, WOULDN'T WE BE SAYING YOU CAN THEN DOWN THE SAYING YOU CAN THEN DOWN THE ROAD ALLOW -- FORCE COMPANIES ROAD ALLOW -- FORCE COMPANIES TO PAY FOR ABORTIONS?
TO PAY FOR ABORTIONS?
GWEN: FASCINATING.
GWEN: FASCINATING.
A GREAT DECISION.
A GREAT DECISION.
AND PULL IT APART AND PUT IT AND PULL IT APART AND PUT IT BACK TOGETHER AGAIN.
BACK TOGETHER AGAIN.
THANK YOU, JOAN.
THANK YOU, JOAN.
THANK YOU, EVERYONE.
THANK YOU, EVERYONE.
WE HAVE TO GO.
WE HAVE TO GO.
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BUT AS ALWAYS, THE ONLINE.
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GOOD NIGHT.
