INTERNAL UPHEAVAL IN UKRAINE IS NOW A SUPERPOWER STANDOFF.
NOW A SUPERPOWER STANDOFF.
PLUS A TASTE OF POLITICS 2016 PLUS A TASTE OF POLITICS 2016 STYLE.
STYLE.
TONIGHT ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."
TONIGHT ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."
>> IN 2014 WE ARE WELL BEYOND >> IN 2014 WE ARE WELL BEYOND THE DAYS WHEN BORDERS CAN BE THE DAYS WHEN BORDERS CAN BE REDRAWN OVER THE HEADS OF REDRAWN OVER THE HEADS OF DEMOCRATIC LEADERS.
DEMOCRATIC LEADERS.
GWEN: THE STANDOFF BETWEEN GWEN: THE STANDOFF BETWEEN CRIMEA AND KIEV, BETWEEN EUROPE CRIMEA AND KIEV, BETWEEN EUROPE AND RUSSIA, BETWEEN BARACK AND RUSSIA, BETWEEN BARACK OBAMA AND VLADIMIR PUTIN.
OBAMA AND VLADIMIR PUTIN.
GROWS MORE TENSE.
GROWS MORE TENSE.
>> I DON'T MEAN TO SOUND IN ANY >> I DON'T MEAN TO SOUND IN ANY WAY POLLYANNAISH ABOUT THIS WAY POLLYANNAISH ABOUT THIS MOMENT IN STORHIY.
MOMENT IN STORHIY.
THIS IS A MOMENT THAT COULD THIS IS A MOMENT THAT COULD TURN SOUTH IN A HURRY AND COULD TURN SOUTH IN A HURRY AND COULD ESCALATE IN A HURRY.
ESCALATE IN A HURRY.
GWEN: RUSSIA DENIES BAD INTENT GWEN: RUSSIA DENIES BAD INTENT BUT THREATS ON ALL SIDES ARE BUT THREATS ON ALL SIDES ARE ONLY ESCALATING.
ONLY ESCALATING.
>> THE UNITED STATES WILL NOT >> THE UNITED STATES WILL NOT GRANT VISAS TO THOSE WHO GRANT VISAS TO THOSE WHO THREATEN THE SOVEREIGNTY OR THREATEN THE SOVEREIGNTY OR TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY OF TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY OF UKRAINE.
UKRAINE.
>> MR. PUTIN, TEAR DOWN THIS >> MR. PUTIN, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL.
WALL.
THE WALL OF INTIMIDATION, THE THE WALL OF INTIMIDATION, THE WALL OF MILITARY AGGRESSION, WALL OF MILITARY AGGRESSION, AND LET'S BUILD UP NEW TYPE OF AND LET'S BUILD UP NEW TYPE OF RELATIONS.
RELATIONS.
BETWEEN UKRAE ANIND RUSSIA.
BETWEEN UKRAE ANIND RUSSIA.
GWEN: WE EXAMINE THE HISTORY GWEN: WE EXAMINE THE HISTORY AND THE FUTURE OF THE AND THE FUTURE OF THE CONFRONTATION.
CONFRONTATION.
PLUS THE FUTURE OF THE GRAND PLUS THE FUTURE OF THE GRAND OLD PARTY.
OLD PARTY.
ON DISPLAY.
ON DISPLAY.
>> IT'S TIME FOR A LITTLE >> IT'S TIME FOR A LITTLE REBELLION ON THE BATTLEFIELD OF REBELLION ON THE BATTLEFIELD OF IDEAS.
IDEAS.
>> I THINK THE LEFT IS >> I THINK THE LEFT IS EXHAUSTED.
EXHAUSTED.
OUR SIDE IS ENERGIZED.
OUR SIDE IS ENERGIZED.
AND ON ELECTION DAY, WE'RE AND ON ELECTION DAY, WE'RE GOING TO WIN.
GOING TO WIN.
>> WE DON'T GET TO GOVERN IF WE >> WE DON'T GET TO GOVERN IF WE DON'T WIN.
DON'T WIN.
GWEN: AS REPUBLICANS TAKE GWEN: AS REPUBLICANS TAKE STOCK.
STOCK.
COVERING THE WEEK, PETER BAKER COVERING THE WEEK, PETER BAKER OF "THE NEW YORK TIMES."
OF "THE NEW YORK TIMES."
DOYLE MCMANUS OF THE "LOS DOYLE MCMANUS OF THE "LOS ANGELES TIMES."
ANGELES TIMES."
ND GLORIA BORGER OF CNN.
ND GLORIA BORGER OF CNN.
>> AWARD WINNING REPORTING AND >> AWARD WINNING REPORTING AND ANALYSIS.
ANALYSIS.
NATION'S CAPITAL, IT HAPPE NATION'S CAPITAL, IT HAPPE THIS IS "WASHINGTON WEEK WITH THIS IS "WASHINGTON WEEK WITH GWEN IFILL."
ONCE AGAIN, LIVE FROM WASHINGTON, MODERATOR GWEN WASHINGTON, MODERATOR GWEN IFILL.
IFILL.
GWEN: GOOD EVENING.
GWEN: GOOD EVENING.
THE SITUATION IN UKRAINE SHOWS THE SITUATION IN UKRAINE SHOWS EVERY SIGN OF SLIPPING OUT OF EVERY SIGN OF SLIPPING OUT OF ANYONE'S CONTROL.
ANYONE'S CONTROL.
AND AS ALWAYS WITH SUDDEN AND AS ALWAYS WITH SUDDEN UPHEAVAL, THERE ARE MORE UPHEAVAL, THERE ARE MORE QUESTIONS THAN ANSWERS.
QUESTIONS THAN ANSWERS.
WILL DIPLOMACY WORK?
WILL DIPLOMACY WORK?
SECRETARY OF STATE JOHN KERRY SECRETARY OF STATE JOHN KERRY SPENT THE WEEK WORKING THAT SPENT THE WEEK WORKING THAT FRONT.
FRONT.
>> RUSSIA CAN NOW CHOOSE TO >> RUSSIA CAN NOW CHOOSE TO DE-ESCALATE THIS SITUATION.
DE-ESCALATE THIS SITUATION.
AND WE ARE COMMITTED TO WORKING AND WE ARE COMMITTED TO WORKING WITH RUSSIA AND TOGETHER WITH WITH RUSSIA AND TOGETHER WITH OUR FRIENDS AND ALLIES, IN AN OUR FRIENDS AND ALLIES, IN AN EFFORT TO PROVIDE A WAY FOR EFFORT TO PROVIDE A WAY FOR THIS ENTIRE SITUATION TO FIND THIS ENTIRE SITUATION TO FIND THE ROAD TO DE-ESCALATION.
THE ROAD TO DE-ESCALATION.
GWEN: ANOTHER QUESTION -- IS GWEN: ANOTHER QUESTION -- IS MILITARY ACTION A POSSIBILITY?
MILITARY ACTION A POSSIBILITY?
JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN MARTIN JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN MARTIN DEMPSEY SPOKE TO MY "NEWSHOUR" DEMPSEY SPOKE TO MY "NEWSHOUR" COLLEAGUE JUDY WOODRUFF TODAY.
COLLEAGUE JUDY WOODRUFF TODAY.
>> I DO HAVE THIS OPEN LINE >> I DO HAVE THIS OPEN LINE WITH MY RUSSIAN COUNTERPART SO WITH MY RUSSIAN COUNTERPART SO EVERYTHING THAT WE'VE DONE, I EVERYTHING THAT WE'VE DONE, I TELL HIM, HERE'S WHAT WE'RE TELL HIM, HERE'S WHAT WE'RE DOING.
DOING.
HERE'S WHY WE'RE DOING IT.
HERE'S WHY WE'RE DOING IT.
WE DISAGREE FUNDAMENTALLY ABOUT WE DISAGREE FUNDAMENTALLY ABOUT YOUR CLAIM OF LEGITIMACY.
YOUR CLAIM OF LEGITIMACY.
BUT AS MILITARIES, LET'S TRY TO BUT AS MILITARIES, LET'S TRY TO AVOID ESCALATING THIS THING.
AVOID ESCALATING THIS THING.
>> BUT THERE IS A CHANCE IT >> BUT THERE IS A CHANCE IT COULD ESCALATE.
COULD ESCALATE.
>> OF COURSE THERE IS.
>> OF COURSE THERE IS.
>> A CHANCE OF MILITARY >> A CHANCE OF MILITARY CONFLICT.
CONFLICT.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH.
GWEN: BUT AT THE CENTER OF ALL GWEN: BUT AT THE CENTER OF ALL THIS IS THE PUZZLE THAT'S THIS IS THE PUZZLE THAT'S RUSSIAN PRESIDENT VLADIMIR RUSSIAN PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN.
PUTIN.
IS THE GRAND PLAN AFOOT HERE IS THE GRAND PLAN AFOOT HERE THAT WE KNOW OF HERE, PETER?
THAT WE KNOW OF HERE, PETER?
>> IT SEEMS TO BE VERY >> IT SEEMS TO BE VERY IMPROVISATIONAL.
IMPROVISATIONAL.
PRESIDENT OBAMA TRYING TO GIVE PRESIDENT OBAMA TRYING TO GIVE WHAT HE CALLS AN OFF RAMP TO WHAT HE CALLS AN OFF RAMP TO PRESIDENT PUTIN OF RUSSIA, A PRESIDENT PUTIN OF RUSSIA, A WAY TO DE-ESCALATE, TO STAND WAY TO DE-ESCALATE, TO STAND DOWN FROM THIS CRISIS.
DOWN FROM THIS CRISIS.
GWEN: PULL BACK FROM THE BRINK.
GWEN: PULL BACK FROM THE BRINK.
THOSE THREE PHRASES.
THOSE THREE PHRASES.
>> BUT PRESIDENT PUTIN SEEMS TO >> BUT PRESIDENT PUTIN SEEMS TO BE HITTING THE ACCELERATOR AND BE HITTING THE ACCELERATOR AND NOT HITTING THE OFF RAMP AND IS NOT HITTING THE OFF RAMP AND IS HEADING DOWN THE HIGHWAY AND HEADING DOWN THE HIGHWAY AND GOING FASTER EACH DAY.
GOING FASTER EACH DAY.
WITH EACH MOMENT WE THINK HE'S WITH EACH MOMENT WE THINK HE'S POSSIBLY PAUSING AS HE DID AT POSSIBLY PAUSING AS HE DID AT ONE POINT THIS WEEK, THEN THE ONE POINT THIS WEEK, THEN THE NEXT DAY THEY TAKE THE NEXT NEXT DAY THEY TAKE THE NEXT STEP.
STEP.
RIGHT NOW, LOOKING AT AN RIGHT NOW, LOOKING AT AN EX-ATION OF CRIMEA, SOUTHERN EX-ATION OF CRIMEA, SOUTHERN PENINSULA OF UKRAINE.
PENINSULA OF UKRAINE.
A RED LINE FOR THE UNITED A RED LINE FOR THE UNITED STATES BUT THE PROBLEM FOR STATES BUT THE PROBLEM FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA IS WHAT DO YOU PRESIDENT OBAMA IS WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT IT?
DO ABOUT IT?
I THINK THAT HE'S STRUGGLING TO I THINK THAT HE'S STRUGGLING TO FIND THE RIGHT MIX OF FIND THE RIGHT MIX OF DIPLOMACY, ACTION, TOUGH WORDS, DIPLOMACY, ACTION, TOUGH WORDS, BUT NOT SO TOUGH THAT IT CAN'T BUT NOT SO TOUGH THAT IT CAN'T FIND A WAY TO COME TO A FIND A WAY TO COME TO A PEACEFUL RESOLUTION.
PEACEFUL RESOLUTION.
GWEN: WE ALWAYS TURN THESE GWEN: WE ALWAYS TURN THESE THINGS INTO PERSONALITY THINGS INTO PERSONALITY CONFLICTS.
CONFLICTS.
AND I WONDER HOW MUCH OF THIS AND I WONDER HOW MUCH OF THIS IS REALLY A CONFLICT BETWEEN IS REALLY A CONFLICT BETWEEN THESE TWO PRESIDENTS.
THESE TWO PRESIDENTS.
AND HOW MUCH OF IT IS ROOTED IN AND HOW MUCH OF IT IS ROOTED IN SOMETHING MORE FUNDAMENTAL AND SOMETHING MORE FUNDAMENTAL AND THEREFORE MORE DIFFICULT TO THEREFORE MORE DIFFICULT TO SOLVE?
SOLVE?
>> ON ONE LEVEL, IT IS EASY TO >> ON ONE LEVEL, IT IS EASY TO SEE IT AS A PERSONALITY SEE IT AS A PERSONALITY CONFLICT.
CONFLICT.
FOR ONE THING, THESE GUYS HAVE FOR ONE THING, THESE GUYS HAVE SPENT A LOT OF TIME TALKING TO SPENT A LOT OF TIME TALKING TO EACH OTHER.
EACH OTHER.
THEY BOTH BELIEVE IN THE POWER THEY BOTH BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF PERSONAL DIPLOMACY.
OF PERSONAL DIPLOMACY.
GWEN: SPENT AN HOUR WITH HIM ON GWEN: SPENT AN HOUR WITH HIM ON THE PHONE LAST NIGHT.
THE PHONE LAST NIGHT.
>> AND THEN MORE THAN AN HOUR, >> AND THEN MORE THAN AN HOUR, A COUPLE OF NIGHTS BEFORE THAT.
A COUPLE OF NIGHTS BEFORE THAT.
WELL, THAT'S PARTLY BECAUSE WELL, THAT'S PARTLY BECAUSE EACH OF THESE GUYS THINKS HE EACH OF THESE GUYS THINKS HE HAS THE CAPACITY TO SOMEHOW HAS THE CAPACITY TO SOMEHOW PERSUADE THE OTHER.
PERSUADE THE OTHER.
BUT EACH ONE -- BUT EACH ONE -- GWEN: HOW IS THAT WORKING OUT?
GWEN: HOW IS THAT WORKING OUT?
>> NOT SO HOT.
>> NOT SO HOT.
BECAUSE EACH ONE IS IN A SENSE BECAUSE EACH ONE IS IN A SENSE -- AMERICAN OFFICIALS AND -- AMERICAN OFFICIALS AND GERMAN OFFICIALS HAVE BEEN GERMAN OFFICIALS HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT PUTIN TALKS AS IF SAYING THAT PUTIN TALKS AS IF HE'S IN A DIFFERENT REALITY.
HE'S IN A DIFFERENT REALITY.
THEY DON'T MEAN HE'S NUTS.
THEY DON'T MEAN HE'S NUTS.
THEY MEAN HE'S LOOKING AT A THEY MEAN HE'S LOOKING AT A DIFFERENT FRAMEWORK.
DIFFERENT FRAMEWORK.
AND THAT'S WHAT'S MAKING THIS AND THAT'S WHAT'S MAKING THIS HARDER AND THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT HARDER AND THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT A PERSONALITY PROBLEM.
A PERSONALITY PROBLEM.
YOU KNOW, UKRAINE WAS PART OF YOU KNOW, UKRAINE WAS PART OF RUSSIA FOR 300 YEARS.
RUSSIA FOR 300 YEARS.
PUTIN DOESN'T HAVE A GRAND PLAN PUTIN DOESN'T HAVE A GRAND PLAN HERE BUT HE HAD GRAND AMBITIONS HERE BUT HE HAD GRAND AMBITIONS TO BRING UKRAINE BACK INTO WHAT TO BRING UKRAINE BACK INTO WHAT HE CALLED HIS UE RACIAL UNION HE CALLED HIS UE RACIAL UNION AND ONE -- EURASIAN UNION AND AND ONE -- EURASIAN UNION AND ONE THING WE FORGOT, WHEN THAT ONE THING WE FORGOT, WHEN THAT EVOLT ROSE IN UKRAINE, AND EVOLT ROSE IN UKRAINE, AND YANUKOVYCH WAS PUSHED OUT, THAT YANUKOVYCH WAS PUSHED OUT, THAT WAS AN ENORMOUS DEFEAT FOR WAS AN ENORMOUS DEFEAT FOR PUTIN.
PUTIN.
WHO HAD SPENT A LOT OF TIME WHO HAD SPENT A LOT OF TIME WOOING YANUKOVYCH AND UKRAINE WOOING YANUKOVYCH AND UKRAINE IN HIS DIRECTION.
IN HIS DIRECTION.
SO HE -- THIS ISN'T JUST SO HE -- THIS ISN'T JUST UKRAINE.
UKRAINE.
THIS ISN'T JUST PUTIN GRABBING THIS ISN'T JUST PUTIN GRABBING FOR VICTORY.
FOR VICTORY.
THIS IS PUTIN STAVING OFF WHAT THIS IS PUTIN STAVING OFF WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A DEFEAT.
WOULD HAVE BEEN A DEFEAT.
>> BUT HAVE WE ALREADY SEEN THE >> BUT HAVE WE ALREADY SEEN THE END GAME HERE?
END GAME HERE?
I MEAN, WHETHER IT'S ANNEXATION I MEAN, WHETHER IT'S ANNEXATION OR WHETHER IT REMAINS OR WHETHER IT REMAINS AMBIGUOUS, PUTIN KEEPS HIS PORT AMBIGUOUS, PUTIN KEEPS HIS PORT IN CRIMEA.
IN CRIMEA.
KEEPS CONTROL ONE WAY OR KEEPS CONTROL ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
ANOTHER.
I MEAN, ISN'T -- IT IS WHAT IT I MEAN, ISN'T -- IT IS WHAT IT IS?
IS?
>> IT'S HARD TO SEE HOW THE >> IT'S HARD TO SEE HOW THE UNITED STATES AND -- CAN ROLL UNITED STATES AND -- CAN ROLL BACK THE RUSSIAN PRESENCE IN BACK THE RUSSIAN PRESENCE IN CRIMEA.
CRIMEA.
THEY HAVE VERY FEW MEASURES THEY HAVE VERY FEW MEASURES THAT WOULD DO THAT.
THAT WOULD DO THAT.
THAT THEY SEEM WILLING TO TAKE THAT THEY SEEM WILLING TO TAKE ANYWAY.
ANYWAY.
AND IT'S HARD TO CHANGE THE AND IT'S HARD TO CHANGE THE STATUS QUO ON THE GROUND.
STATUS QUO ON THE GROUND.
PUTIN OWNS THE PROVINCE.
PUTIN OWNS THE PROVINCE.
HE HAS SEVERAL THOUSAND HE HAS SEVERAL THOUSAND UKRAINIANS AND 30,000 TROOPS UKRAINIANS AND 30,000 TROOPS THERE, PROBABLY NOT THAT MANY.
THERE, PROBABLY NOT THAT MANY.
AND THEY COULD POSSIBLY STOP AND THEY COULD POSSIBLY STOP HIM FROM GOING FURTHER.
HIM FROM GOING FURTHER.
THAT'S BEEN THE FIRST PRIORITY THAT'S BEEN THE FIRST PRIORITY THIS WEEK.
THIS WEEK.
WE'RE NOT THRILLED WITH WHAT'S WE'RE NOT THRILLED WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING IN CRIMEA BUT HE HAPPENING IN CRIMEA BUT HE COULD TAKE ALL OF EASTERN COULD TAKE ALL OF EASTERN UKRAINE.
UKRAINE.
AND NOT SPLIT IT DOWN THE AND NOT SPLIT IT DOWN THE MIDDLE AND THAT FOR THE MOMENT MIDDLE AND THAT FOR THE MOMENT HAS BEEN HEADED OFF.
HAS BEEN HEADED OFF.
GWEN: THE ONE SOLUTION THE GWEN: THE ONE SOLUTION THE ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN FLOATING IS THE IDEA OF SENDING FLOATING IS THE IDEA OF SENDING IN MONITORS, INTERNATIONAL IN MONITORS, INTERNATIONAL MONITORS.
MONITORS.
I ASKED -- U.N.
AMBASSADOR I ASKED -- U.N.
AMBASSADOR SAMANTHA POWER ABOUT THIS LAST SAMANTHA POWER ABOUT THIS LAST NIGHT.
NIGHT.
EXACTLY WHAT THE END GAME WOULD EXACTLY WHAT THE END GAME WOULD LOOK LIKE.
LOOK LIKE.
THIS IS WHAT SHE SAID.
THIS IS WHAT SHE SAID.
>> HOW DO YOU SEE THIS ENDING?
>> HOW DO YOU SEE THIS ENDING?
>> WELL, ALL I CAN -- I CAN SAY >> WELL, ALL I CAN -- I CAN SAY IS WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN IS WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN ORDER FOR THIS TO END.
ORDER FOR THIS TO END.
RUSSIA NEEDS TO MAKE CLEAR TO RUSSIA NEEDS TO MAKE CLEAR TO THE WORLD AND TO THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD AND TO THE PEOPLE OF UKRAINE THAT IT IS PREPARED TO UKRAINE THAT IT IS PREPARED TO WORK WITH THE INTERNATIONAL WORK WITH THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, WITH MONITORS, WHO COMMUNITY, WITH MONITORS, WHO ARE INDEPENDENT AND CREDIBLE, ARE INDEPENDENT AND CREDIBLE, IN ORDER TO PURSUE ITS IN ORDER TO PURSUE ITS LEGITIMATE INTERESTS BOTH IN LEGITIMATE INTERESTS BOTH IN CRIMEA AND IN UKRAINE PROPER.
CRIMEA AND IN UKRAINE PROPER.
GWEN: LET'S TALK ABOUT HOW GWEN: LET'S TALK ABOUT HOW THAT'S WORKED SO FAR.
THAT'S WORKED SO FAR.
THERE WAS A U.N. SPECIAL ENVOY THERE WAS A U.N. SPECIAL ENVOY WHO WENT INTO CRIMEA AND WHO WENT INTO CRIMEA AND BASICALLY WAS DRIVEN OUT BEFORE BASICALLY WAS DRIVEN OUT BEFORE HE WAS EVEN ABLE TO START HIS HE WAS EVEN ABLE TO START HIS MISSION.
MISSION.
SO EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE TALKING SO EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE THIS, THEY ABOUT THINGS LIKE THIS, THEY DON'T SEEM TERRIBLY OPTIMISTIC.
DON'T SEEM TERRIBLY OPTIMISTIC.
>> AND ALSO THERE'S A GROUP >> AND ALSO THERE'S A GROUP CALLED THE ORGANIZATION FOR CALLED THE ORGANIZATION FOR SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE.
EUROPE.
THAT HAS SENT A MISSION TO THAT HAS SENT A MISSION TO UKRAINE TWICE TO TRY AND GET UKRAINE TWICE TO TRY AND GET THEM ON THE GROUND.
THEM ON THE GROUND.
UNARMED WESTERN MILITARY UNARMED WESTERN MILITARY OFFICERS.
OFFICERS.
TO DO THE MONITORING AND THE TO DO THE MONITORING AND THE IDEA THERE IS OK, RUSSIA, IF IDEA THERE IS OK, RUSSIA, IF YOUR CONCERN IS THE SAFETY OF YOUR CONCERN IS THE SAFETY OF RUSSIANS SPEAKING NATIONALS OR RUSSIANS SPEAKING NATIONALS OR RUSSIAN CITIZENS IN EASTERN RUSSIAN CITIZENS IN EASTERN UKRAINE, WE'LL TRY AND PROTECT UKRAINE, WE'LL TRY AND PROTECT THAT FOR YOU.
THAT FOR YOU.
BUT THAT GROUP HAS BEEN BLOCKED BUT THAT GROUP HAS BEEN BLOCKED NOT ONCE BUT TWICE.
NOT ONCE BUT TWICE.
SO IT REALLY LOOKS LIKE AT THIS SO IT REALLY LOOKS LIKE AT THIS POINT RUSSIA IS NOT INTERESTED POINT RUSSIA IS NOT INTERESTED IN THAT PARTICULAR OFFERING.
IN THAT PARTICULAR OFFERING.
>> SO WHAT ABOUT THELAPPED ON T >> SO WHAT ABOUT THELAPPED ON T WEEK WHICH SEEMED VERY BASIC?
WEEK WHICH SEEMED VERY BASIC?
>> MODEST.
>> MODEST.
>> AGAINST THE UNNAMED OR NAMED >> AGAINST THE UNNAMED OR NAMED NOW BAD BOYS.
NOW BAD BOYS.
WHO HAVE HAD A PART IN THIS.
WHO HAVE HAD A PART IN THIS.
BUT WE'VE KIND OF LIMITED IT TO BUT WE'VE KIND OF LIMITED IT TO A GREAT DEGREE.
A GREAT DEGREE.
>> I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SEEING >> I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS AN EFFORT BY JOHN KERRY AND IS AN EFFORT BY JOHN KERRY AND IN PARTICULAR TO SAY, LET'S GO IN PARTICULAR TO SAY, LET'S GO SLOW ON HOW WE DO THIS.
SLOW ON HOW WE DO THIS.
SO WE HAVE A, SOME ROOM TO SO WE HAVE A, SOME ROOM TO RATCHET IT UP AS EVENTS WARRANT RATCHET IT UP AS EVENTS WARRANT AND B, WE GIVE SOME BREATHING AND B, WE GIVE SOME BREATHING ROOM TO RUSSIA TO BACK DOWN ROOM TO RUSSIA TO BACK DOWN WITHOUT LOOKING LIKE THEY'RE WITHOUT LOOKING LIKE THEY'RE DOING IT UNDER PRESSURE.
DOING IT UNDER PRESSURE.
BUT THEY HAVE TAKEN A NUMBER OF BUT THEY HAVE TAKEN A NUMBER OF ACTIONS.
ACTIONS.
THEY SUSPENDED TRADE TALKS AND THEY SUSPENDED TRADE TALKS AND BASICALLY SAID WE WILL NOT GO BASICALLY SAID WE WILL NOT GO TO THE G-8 UNLESS THINGS TO THE G-8 UNLESS THINGS CHANGE.
CHANGE.
GWEN: ISN'T THERE SOMETHING GWEN: ISN'T THERE SOMETHING CALLED THE MAGNET'S KEY ACT?
CALLED THE MAGNET'S KEY ACT?
WHERE THEY COULD INVOKE -- WHERE THEY COULD INVOKE -- >> YEAH.
>> YEAH.
THAT'S FOR HUMAN RIGHTS THAT'S FOR HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS AND COULD SAY, VIOLATIONS AND COULD SAY, BECAUSE OF YOUR VIOLATIONS OF BECAUSE OF YOUR VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS YOU INDIVIDUAL HUMAN RIGHTS YOU INDIVIDUAL RUSSIAN OFFICIALS CANNOT COME RUSSIAN OFFICIALS CANNOT COME TO THE UNITED STATES AND FREEZE TO THE UNITED STATES AND FREEZE YOUR ASSETS.
YOUR ASSETS.
THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO TAKE THE THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO TAKE THE FREEZE ASSETS PART BUT THE FREEZE ASSETS PART BUT THE SANCTIONS WERE VISA BAN FOR A SANCTIONS WERE VISA BAN FOR A DOZEN RUSSIAN AND UKRAINIAN DOZEN RUSSIAN AND UKRAINIAN FIGURES.
FIGURES.
THEY MAY NOT EVEN KNOW THEY'RE THEY MAY NOT EVEN KNOW THEY'RE ON THIS LIST BUT NOT TOLD THEY ON THIS LIST BUT NOT TOLD THEY DON'T HAVE A VISA, THEY'RE NOT DON'T HAVE A VISA, THEY'RE NOT TOLD AND FIND OUT IF THEY HAVE TOLD AND FIND OUT IF THEY HAVE REPLIED.
REPLIED.
SO RELATIVELY MINOR IN THAT SO RELATIVELY MINOR IN THAT SENSE.
SENSE.
BUT THE PROBLEM FOR PRESIDENT BUT THE PROBLEM FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA ASIDE FROM HIS OWN DESIRE OBAMA ASIDE FROM HIS OWN DESIRE TO TAKE IT IN A MEASURED WAY IS TO TAKE IT IN A MEASURED WAY IS THAT EUROPE ISN'T ALL THAT -- THAT EUROPE ISN'T ALL THAT -- AND THAT'S A REAL CONUNDRUM.
AND THAT'S A REAL CONUNDRUM.
HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE SEPARATED HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE SEPARATED FROM THE ALLIES AT THIS POINT.
FROM THE ALLIES AT THIS POINT.
GWEN: AND THE REASON FOR EUROPE GWEN: AND THE REASON FOR EUROPE IS -- THE IMMEDIATE PRICE FOR IS -- THE IMMEDIATE PRICE FOR ANY SANCTIONS.
ANY SANCTIONS.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
EUROPE HAS A WHOLE SET OF EUROPE HAS A WHOLE SET OF BUSINESS DEALINGS THAT ARE MUCH BUSINESS DEALINGS THAT ARE MUCH LARGER AND MUCH MORE INTIMATE LARGER AND MUCH MORE INTIMATE THAN OURS.
THAN OURS.
FINANCIAL.
FINANCIAL.
NATURAL GAS.
NATURAL GAS.
SOMETHING LIKE A THIRD OF SOMETHING LIKE A THIRD OF EUROPE'S NATURAL GAS OR MORE EUROPE'S NATURAL GAS OR MORE COMES THROUGH UKRAINE.
COMES THROUGH UKRAINE.
SO IF -- FROM RUSSIA.
SO IF -- FROM RUSSIA.
IF RUSSIA CUTS THAT OFF.
IF RUSSIA CUTS THAT OFF.
O IN A SENSE, THE -- WHAT SOME O IN A SENSE, THE -- WHAT SOME OFFICIALS AND SOME IN CONGRESS OFFICIALS AND SOME IN CONGRESS HAVE SAID, THE SILVER BULLET HAVE SAID, THE SILVER BULLET HERE MYTHICALLY MIGHT BE -- HERE MYTHICALLY MIGHT BE -- WOULD BE IF YOU CAN THREATEN WOULD BE IF YOU CAN THREATEN THE OLIGARCHES, THE MONEY MEN THE OLIGARCHES, THE MONEY MEN AROUND PUTIN WITH FREEZING AROUND PUTIN WITH FREEZING THEIR ASSETS IN BANKS, IN THEIR ASSETS IN BANKS, IN SWITZERLAND, FREEZING THEIR SWITZERLAND, FREEZING THEIR REAL ESTATE IN LONDON, THEN REAL ESTATE IN LONDON, THEN YOU'D REALLY HAVE THEM WHERE YOU'D REALLY HAVE THEM WHERE YOU WANT THEM BUT THE EUROPEANS YOU WANT THEM BUT THE EUROPEANS HATE THAT IDEA OF ECONOMIC -- HATE THAT IDEA OF ECONOMIC -- >> CAN YOU PENALIZE THE BANKS >> CAN YOU PENALIZE THE BANKS WHO DO BUSINESS?
WHO DO BUSINESS?
GWEN: YEAH.
GWEN: YEAH.
>> WE DID THAT WITH IRAN, FOR >> WE DID THAT WITH IRAN, FOR EXAMPLE.
EXAMPLE.
>> AND THAT IS ONE OF THE >> AND THAT IS ONE OF THE NUCLEAR OPTIONS HERE.
NUCLEAR OPTIONS HERE.
BECAUSE WHAT YOU SAY IS OK, BECAUSE WHAT YOU SAY IS OK, THESE STATE-RUN BANKS IN RUSSIA THESE STATE-RUN BANKS IN RUSSIA WERE INVOLVED IN LET'S JUST SAY WERE INVOLVED IN LET'S JUST SAY PROVIDING ARMS TO SYRIA.
PROVIDING ARMS TO SYRIA.
WE HAVE SANCTIONS AGAINST WE HAVE SANCTIONS AGAINST PROVIDING ARMS TO SYRIA.
PROVIDING ARMS TO SYRIA.
WE HAVEN'T TAKEN THEM AGAINST WE HAVEN'T TAKEN THEM AGAINST RUSSIA BECAUSE WE WANT TO -- RUSSIA BECAUSE WE WANT TO -- COOPERATION FROM RUSSIA IN COOPERATION FROM RUSSIA IN SOLVING THIS CIVIL WAR.
SOLVING THIS CIVIL WAR.
WE COULD TOMORROW SAY THESE WE COULD TOMORROW SAY THESE BANKS HAVE BEEN INVOLVED.
BANKS HAVE BEEN INVOLVED.
BUT THAT MEANS NOT JUST OUR BUT THAT MEANS NOT JUST OUR BANKS CAN'T DO BUSINESS WITH BANKS CAN'T DO BUSINESS WITH THEM.
THEM.
BUT REALLY THE EUROPEANS CAN'T BUT REALLY THE EUROPEANS CAN'T DO BUSINESS WITH THEM AND DO BUSINESS WITH THEM AND DEUTSCHE BANK HAS A LOT MORE DEUTSCHE BANK HAS A LOT MORE BUSINESS WITH RUSSIAN BANKS BUSINESS WITH RUSSIAN BANKS THAN WE DO.
THAN WE DO.
AND THAT AGAIN, ANGELA MERKEL AND THAT AGAIN, ANGELA MERKEL WOULD TAKE THAT IN A DIFFERENT WOULD TAKE THAT IN A DIFFERENT WAY THAN WE LOOK AT IT.
WAY THAN WE LOOK AT IT.
>> ZPWHR I'M CURIOUS ABOUT IS >> ZPWHR I'M CURIOUS ABOUT IS WHETHER THIS SIGNALS -- WE WHETHER THIS SIGNALS -- WE ALWAYS LOOK FOR BIG PICTURE ALWAYS LOOK FOR BIG PICTURE DESCRIPTIONS OF WHAT THIS DESCRIPTIONS OF WHAT THIS MEANS.
MEANS.
COLD WAR COMES TO MIND.
COLD WAR COMES TO MIND.
YOU LIVED IN MOSCOW.
YOU LIVED IN MOSCOW.
YOU COVERED THIS FOR YEARS.
YOU COVERED THIS FOR YEARS.
GIVE US A SENSE OF WHETHER WE GIVE US A SENSE OF WHETHER WE E ONAR THE -- ANOTHER COLD WAR E ONAR THE -- ANOTHER COLD WAR TYPE STANDOFF.
TYPE STANDOFF.
>> IT SURE SOUNDS LIKE IT AND >> IT SURE SOUNDS LIKE IT AND FEELS LIKE IT.
FEELS LIKE IT.
THE RHETORIC HAS RATCHETED UP.
THE RHETORIC HAS RATCHETED UP.
THE STATE DEPARTMENT PUT OUT A THE STATE DEPARTMENT PUT OUT A STATEMENT REBUTTING A LOT OF STATEMENT REBUTTING A LOT OF RUSSIAN CLAIMS.
RUSSIAN CLAIMS.
THAT WAS JUST SCATHING.
THAT WAS JUST SCATHING.
IT SAID IN ONE CASE THAT THIS IT SAID IN ONE CASE THAT THIS IS THE MOST IMAGINATIVE RUSSIAN IS THE MOST IMAGINATIVE RUSSIAN FICTION SINCE -- NOT WHAT YOU FICTION SINCE -- NOT WHAT YOU DO TO A COUNTRY THAT YOU'RE DO TO A COUNTRY THAT YOU'RE SEEING AS A GREAT PARTNER RIGHT SEEING AS A GREAT PARTNER RIGHT NOW.
NOW.
BUT IF YOU WANT TO LOOK ON THE BUT IF YOU WANT TO LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE, THIS -- LOOK, THE BRIGHT SIDE, THIS -- LOOK, THE U.S.-RUSSIAN RELATIONSHIP HAS U.S.-RUSSIAN RELATIONSHIP HAS BEEN FALLING APART FOR SOME BEEN FALLING APART FOR SOME TIME.
TIME.
THE RUSSIANS HAVEN'T BEEN THE RUSSIANS HAVEN'T BEEN HELPFUL ON SYRIA FOR SIX MONTHS HELPFUL ON SYRIA FOR SIX MONTHS OR MORE.
OR MORE.
THE RESET IS REALLY NO MORE THE RESET IS REALLY NO MORE THAN A SAD MEMORY RIGHT NOW.
THAN A SAD MEMORY RIGHT NOW.
BUT PEOPLE IN THE BUT PEOPLE IN THE ADMINISTRATION WILL SAY ON ADMINISTRATION WILL SAY ON CHEMICAL WEAPONS IN SYRIA, THE CHEMICAL WEAPONS IN SYRIA, THE RUSSIANS ARE STILL COOPERATING.
RUSSIANS ARE STILL COOPERATING.
ON IRAN, THERE'S NO SIGN THAT ON IRAN, THERE'S NO SIGN THAT THE RUSSIANS ARE BOLTING.
THE RUSSIANS ARE BOLTING.
AND IN PUTIN'S LAST STATEMENT, AND IN PUTIN'S LAST STATEMENT, WHICH WAS VERY TOUGH, A VERY WHICH WAS VERY TOUGH, A VERY TOUGH SUMMARY OF HIS LAST TOUGH SUMMARY OF HIS LAST CONVERSATION WITH PRESIDENT CONVERSATION WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA, THERE WAS THIS FUNNY OBAMA, THERE WAS THIS FUNNY LITTLE NOTE AT THE END SAYING, LITTLE NOTE AT THE END SAYING, BUT I HOPE THIS DOESN'T MESS UP BUT I HOPE THIS DOESN'T MESS UP OUR BILATERAL RELATIONSHIP.
OUR BILATERAL RELATIONSHIP.
>> WHAT ABOUT SNOWDEN, THOUGH?
>> WHAT ABOUT SNOWDEN, THOUGH?
>> EDWARD SNOWDEN.
>> EDWARD SNOWDEN.
>> EDWARD SNOWDEN.
>> EDWARD SNOWDEN.
>> SITTING THERE IN MOSCOW.
>> SITTING THERE IN MOSCOW.
PRESIDENT OBAMA CANCELED HIS PRESIDENT OBAMA CANCELED HIS MEETING WITH PUTIN LAST FALL.
MEETING WITH PUTIN LAST FALL.
EVEN BEFORE THIS WAS HAPPENING.
EVEN BEFORE THIS WAS HAPPENING.
AND THE FIRST TIME IN HALF A AND THE FIRST TIME IN HALF A CENTURY THAT AN AMERICAN CENTURY THAT AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT HAD DONE THAT.
PRESIDENT HAD DONE THAT.
YOU'RE RIGHT.
YOU'RE RIGHT.
ALREADY BEEN REALLY ROCKY TIME.
ALREADY BEEN REALLY ROCKY TIME.
GWEN: EVERYBODY AT THIS TABLE GWEN: EVERYBODY AT THIS TABLE REMEMBERS WHEN PRESIDENT BUSH, REMEMBERS WHEN PRESIDENT BUSH, THE LAST PRESIDENT BUSH, MET THE LAST PRESIDENT BUSH, MET WITH PRESIDENT PUTIN IN WITH PRESIDENT PUTIN IN SLOVENIA.
SLOVENIA.
SLOVAKIA.
SLOVAKIA.
WHERE WERE THEY?
WHERE WERE THEY?
>> SLOVENIA.
>> SLOVENIA.
GWEN: AND CAME AWAY AND HE SAID GWEN: AND CAME AWAY AND HE SAID I LOOKED INTO HIS SOUL, AND -- I LOOKED INTO HIS SOUL, AND -- THAT HE HAD HIM TO THE RANCH THAT HE HAD HIM TO THE RANCH AND I WOULD HAVE HAD HIM TO THE AND I WOULD HAVE HAD HIM TO THE RANCH IF I DIDN'T TRUST HIM.
RANCH IF I DIDN'T TRUST HIM.
SO WHO HAS MISCALCULATED?
SO WHO HAS MISCALCULATED?
A SERIES OF U.S. PRESIDENTS OR A SERIES OF U.S. PRESIDENTS OR JUST THIS PRESIDENT -- JUST THIS PRESIDENT -- >> THE LAST THREE.
>> THE LAST THREE.
AND REALLY FOUR.
AND REALLY FOUR.
THE TRIUMPH OF HOPE OVER ACTUAL THE TRIUMPH OF HOPE OVER ACTUAL EXPERIENCE.
EXPERIENCE.
AND EACH PRESIDENT COMES IN AND AND EACH PRESIDENT COMES IN AND SAYS, I WANT TO CREATE A NEW SAYS, I WANT TO CREATE A NEW DYNAMIC IN THIS RELATIONSHIP.
DYNAMIC IN THIS RELATIONSHIP.
I WANT TO PUT THE PAST IN THE I WANT TO PUT THE PAST IN THE PAST.
PAST.
AND PRESIDENT CLINTON DID IT AND PRESIDENT CLINTON DID IT WITH PRESIDENT YELTSIN.
WITH PRESIDENT YELTSIN.
PRESIDENT BUSH DID IT WITH PRESIDENT BUSH DID IT WITH PRESIDENT PUTIN.
PRESIDENT PUTIN.
PRESIDENT OBAMA DID IT WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA DID IT WITH MEDVEDEV WHO WAS IN THE MEDVEDEV WHO WAS IN THE PRESIDENCY WHILE PUTIN PUT PRESIDENCY WHILE PUTIN PUT HIMSELF IN THE PRIME MINISTER HIMSELF IN THE PRIME MINISTER -- -- >> TOOK A BREAK.
>> TOOK A BREAK.
>> AND EACH ONE HAS >> AND EACH ONE HAS MISCALCULATED IN THINKING THEY MISCALCULATED IN THINKING THEY HAD A GREATER CHANCE OF SUCCESS HAD A GREATER CHANCE OF SUCCESS THAN THEY DID.
THAN THEY DID.
AND IT'S A CYCLE.
AND IT'S A CYCLE.
WE SEE THE SAME CYCLE AGAIN AND WE SEE THE SAME CYCLE AGAIN AND AGAIN.
AGAIN.
AND IT HASN'T BEEN COMPLETELY AND IT HASN'T BEEN COMPLETELY SELF-DELUSION.
SELF-DELUSION.
PETER SPENT MORE TIME IN MOSCOW PETER SPENT MORE TIME IN MOSCOW AND KNOWS THIS BETTER BUT THE AND KNOWS THIS BETTER BUT THE RUSSIANS HAVE BEEN DIVIDED RUSSIANS HAVE BEEN DIVIDED BETWEEN MODERNIZERS AND BETWEEN MODERNIZERS AND OLIGARCHS.
OLIGARCHS.
AND MEDVEDEV WAS THE AND MEDVEDEV WAS THE MODERNIZER.
MODERNIZER.
AND THAT WAS ALWAYS THE HOPE AND THAT WAS ALWAYS THE HOPE THAT IF YOU COULD BUILD UP THE THAT IF YOU COULD BUILD UP THE MEDVEDEVS OF RUSSIA, THE ONES MEDVEDEVS OF RUSSIA, THE ONES WHO WANTED TO BUILD A SILICON WHO WANTED TO BUILD A SILICON VALLEY AND WANTED TO JOIN THE VALLEY AND WANTED TO JOIN THE INTERNATIONAL ECONOMY, NOT SO INTERNATIONAL ECONOMY, NOT SO MUCH THE INTERNATIONAL MUCH THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY PER SE, THEN YOU COMMUNITY PER SE, THEN YOU WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE A PROCESS WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE A PROCESS GOING.
GOING.
BUT MEDVEDEV HASN'T BEEN A KEY BUT MEDVEDEV HASN'T BEEN A KEY FIGURE.
FIGURE.
>> AND MISCALCULATION WAS >> AND MISCALCULATION WAS THINKING HE WAS THE FUTURE THINKING HE WAS THE FUTURE RATHER THAN A FRONT MAN IN RATHER THAN A FRONT MAN IN EFFECT FOR PUTIN.
EFFECT FOR PUTIN.
>> REMEMBER THE PRESIDENT'S >> REMEMBER THE PRESIDENT'S FAMOUS WHISPER TO HIM.
FAMOUS WHISPER TO HIM.
WHICH IS TO TELL PUTIN I'LL WHICH IS TO TELL PUTIN I'LL HAVE -- JOHN MCCAIN IS TALKING HAVE -- JOHN MCCAIN IS TALKING ABOUT NONSTOP I MIGHT ADD, ABOUT NONSTOP I MIGHT ADD, WHICH IS SAYING REMEMBER PELL WHICH IS SAYING REMEMBER PELL PUTIN I'LL HAVMOREE PUTIN I'LL HAVMOREE FLEXIBILITY AFTER THE ELECTION.
FLEXIBILITY AFTER THE ELECTION.
GWEN: TAKEN MORE AS WEAKNESS GWEN: TAKEN MORE AS WEAKNESS THAN FLEXIBILITY.
THAN FLEXIBILITY.
>> THAT'S WHAT MCCAIN WAS >> THAT'S WHAT MCCAIN WAS SAYING.
SAYING.
WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS SAYING WE WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS SAYING WE CAN PUSH THE RESET BUTTON HERE CAN PUSH THE RESET BUTTON HERE AND -- OF COURSE, CURRENT AND -- OF COURSE, CURRENT EVENTS INTERVENE.
EVENTS INTERVENE.
LOOK AT SYRIA.
LOOK AT SYRIA.
>> BUT LOST IN ALL OF THIS IT >> BUT LOST IN ALL OF THIS IT SEEMS TO ME ALSO IS THE REASON SEEMS TO ME ALSO IS THE REASON WHY YANUKOVYCH WAS OVERTHROWN WHY YANUKOVYCH WAS OVERTHROWN IN THE FIRST PLACE.
IN THE FIRST PLACE.
AND IT WAS CORRUPTION.
AND IT WAS CORRUPTION.
IT WASN'T BECAUSE OF PUTIN AND IT WASN'T BECAUSE OF PUTIN AND OBAMA.
OBAMA.
IT WAS ABOUT UNHAPPINESS ABOUT IT WAS ABOUT UNHAPPINESS ABOUT THE WAY THE COUNTRY WAS BEING THE WAY THE COUNTRY WAS BEING RUN AND THAT HAS NOT CHANGED, RUN AND THAT HAS NOT CHANGED, HAS IT?
HAS IT?
>> NO, NOT AT ALL.
>> NO, NOT AT ALL.
THE PROBLEM FOR UKRAINE IS THE PROBLEM FOR UKRAINE IS GENUINELY DIVIDED COUNTRY.
GENUINELY DIVIDED COUNTRY.
IS DIVIDED ALONG ETHNIC LINES, IS DIVIDED ALONG ETHNIC LINES, DIVIDED ALONG LANGUAGE LINES.
DIVIDED ALONG LANGUAGE LINES.
AND IT'S DIVIDED ALONG THESE AND IT'S DIVIDED ALONG THESE CORRUPTION LINES.
CORRUPTION LINES.
YOU PUT AT THE HAVES AND THE YOU PUT AT THE HAVES AND THE HAVE NOTS.
HAVE NOTS.
AND THE NEW GOVERNMENT WILL AND THE NEW GOVERNMENT WILL COME IN AND THERE'S NO REASON COME IN AND THERE'S NO REASON TO THINK -- AND THAT THEY WILL TO THINK -- AND THAT THEY WILL HAVE ANY MORE SUCCESS THAN THE HAVE ANY MORE SUCCESS THAN THE PRO-WESTERN GOVERNMENT THAT PRO-WESTERN GOVERNMENT THAT CAME IN AFTER THE ORANGE CAME IN AFTER THE ORANGE REVOLUTION OF 2004 UNLESS REVOLUTION OF 2004 UNLESS SOMETHING CHANGES.
SOMETHING CHANGES.
AND SO AS THE AMERICANS AND AS AND SO AS THE AMERICANS AND AS THE EUROPEANS ARE PUTTING THE EUROPEANS ARE PUTTING TOGETHER AN AID PACKAGE, TOGETHER AN AID PACKAGE, THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY LET'S NOT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY LET'S NOT DO THE SAME THINGS WE DID LAST DO THE SAME THINGS WE DID LAST TIME.
TIME.
LET'S ACTUALLY DO REAL REFORM LET'S ACTUALLY DO REAL REFORM THIS TIME AND MAKE A DIFFERENT THIS TIME AND MAKE A DIFFERENT BASE FORROGR PESS.
BASE FORROGR PESS.
>> BUT PUTIN IS AWARE OF ALL OF >> BUT PUTIN IS AWARE OF ALL OF THAT.
THAT.
AND ALL HE'S WORRIED ABOUT IS AND ALL HE'S WORRIED ABOUT IS CRIMEA RIGHT NOW.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH.
>> HE'S GOT WHAT HE WANTS.
>> HE'S GOT WHAT HE WANTS.
>> THAT'S A VERY LONG PROCESS.
>> THAT'S A VERY LONG PROCESS.
WHAT PETER JUST DESCRIBED ISN'T WHAT PETER JUST DESCRIBED ISN'T SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS IN THE SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS IN THE NEXT WEEK, BEFORE THERE'S A NEXT WEEK, BEFORE THERE'S A REFERENDUM IN CRIMEA, AND WANTS REFERENDUM IN CRIMEA, AND WANTS TO SECEDE, THAT WILL TAKE TO SECEDE, THAT WILL TAKE YEARS.
YEARS.
GWEN: WELL, THANKS.
GWEN: WELL, THANKS.
IF YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE WHO IF YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE WHO THINK IT'S TOO SOON TO BE THINK IT'S TOO SOON TO BE TALKING 2016, LIKE ME, BUT I'VE TALKING 2016, LIKE ME, BUT I'VE GIVEN UP.
GIVEN UP.
THEN YOU WEREN'T PAYING THEN YOU WEREN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO THE DOINGS JUST ATTENTION TO THE DOINGS JUST OUTSIDE WASHINGTON AT THE OUTSIDE WASHINGTON AT THE ANNUAL CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL ANNUAL CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL ACTION CONFERENCE THIS WEEK.
ACTION CONFERENCE THIS WEEK.
FORGET ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS AND FORGET ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS AND HILLARY.
HILLARY.
THIS WAS ALL ABOUT REPUBLICANS THIS WAS ALL ABOUT REPUBLICANS COMPETING TO RECLAIM THE WHITE COMPETING TO RECLAIM THE WHITE HOUSE.
HOUSE.
HERE'S A TASTE.
HERE'S A TASTE.
>> THE WAY THE LEFT TELLS IT, >> THE WAY THE LEFT TELLS IT, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS IN THIS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS IN THIS BIG MASSIVE CIVIL WAR.
BIG MASSIVE CIVIL WAR.
IT'S TEE PARTY VS.
IT'S TEE PARTY VS.
ESTABLISHMENT.
ESTABLISHMENT.
LIBERTARIANS VS. SOCIAL LIBERTARIANS VS. SOCIAL CONSERVATIVES.
CONSERVATIVES.
THERE'S INFIGHTING.
THERE'S INFIGHTING.
CONFLICT.
CONFLICT.
BACKBITING.
BACKBITING.
DISCORD.
DISCORD.
LOOK, I'M IRISH.
LOOK, I'M IRISH.
THAT'S MY IDEA OF A FAMILY THAT'S MY IDEA OF A FAMILY REUNION.
REUNION.
>> AS OUR VOICES RISE IN >> AS OUR VOICES RISE IN PROTEST, THE N.S.A.
MONITORS PROTEST, THE N.S.A.
MONITORS YOUR EVERY PHONE CALL.
YOUR EVERY PHONE CALL.
IF YOU HAVE A CELL PHONE, YOU IF YOU HAVE A CELL PHONE, YOU ARE UNDER SURVEILLANCE.
ARE UNDER SURVEILLANCE.
I BELIEVE WHAT YOU DO ON YOUR I BELIEVE WHAT YOU DO ON YOUR CELL PHONE IS NONE OF THEIR CELL PHONE IS NONE OF THEIR DAMN BUSINESS.
DAMN BUSINESS.
>> IT IS TIME FOR WASHINGTON TO >> IT IS TIME FOR WASHINGTON TO FOCUS ON THE FEW THINGS THE FOCUS ON THE FEW THINGS THE CONSTITUTION ESTABLISHES AS THE CONSTITUTION ESTABLISHES AS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S ROLE.
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S ROLE.
DEFEND OUR COUNTRY.
DEFEND OUR COUNTRY.
PROVIDE A COGENT FOREIGN PROVIDE A COGENT FOREIGN POLICY.
POLICY.
AND WHAT THE HECK?
AND WHAT THE HECK?
DELIVER THE MAIL.
DELIVER THE MAIL.
PREFERABLY ON TIME AND ON PREFERABLY ON TIME AND ON SATURDAY.
SATURDAY.
GWEN: AND THERE WERE OTHERS, GWEN: AND THERE WERE OTHERS, TOO.
TOO.
CHRIS CHRISTIE AND TED CRUZ CHRIS CHRISTIE AND TED CRUZ AMONG THEM.
AMONG THEM.
SOUNDS LIKE THE ELEPHANT IS SOUNDS LIKE THE ELEPHANT IS BACK AND ROARING AGAIN, GLORIA.
BACK AND ROARING AGAIN, GLORIA.
>> BACK ROARING, STEPPING ALL >> BACK ROARING, STEPPING ALL OVER EACH OTHER.
OVER EACH OTHER.
I MIGHT ADD, THIS WAS AN I MIGHT ADD, THIS WAS AN AUDITION FOR 2016.
AUDITION FOR 2016.
AND IT WAS KIND OF A RAUCOUS AND IT WAS KIND OF A RAUCOUS ONE.
ONE.
AND YOU HEARD ALL OF THE AND YOU HEARD ALL OF THE DISSIDENT VOICES IN THE PARTY.
DISSIDENT VOICES IN THE PARTY.
AND AS MUCH AS PAUL RYAN SAYS AND AS MUCH AS PAUL RYAN SAYS THIS IS JUST A GREAT THING, THIS IS JUST A GREAT THING, THERE ARE SOME REALLY THERE ARE SOME REALLY DEEP-SEATED DIFFERENCES THAT DEEP-SEATED DIFFERENCES THAT ARE GOING TO GET PLAYED OUT ARE GOING TO GET PLAYED OUT OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS.
OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS.
AND OBVIOUSLY THIS -- THIS AND OBVIOUSLY THIS -- THIS CONVENTION OF CONSERVATIVES IS CONVENTION OF CONSERVATIVES IS ONE OF THEM.
ONE OF THEM.
AND YOU HEARD RAND PAUL THERE AND YOU HEARD RAND PAUL THERE TALKING ABOUT PRIVACY.
TALKING ABOUT PRIVACY.
AN ISSUE UPON WHICH REPUBLICANS AN ISSUE UPON WHICH REPUBLICANS DISAGREE AND WHAT YOU DO ABOUT DISAGREE AND WHAT YOU DO ABOUT SURVEILLANCE AND WHAT YOU DO SURVEILLANCE AND WHAT YOU DO ABOUT DRONES IS ANOTHER ISSUE ABOUT DRONES IS ANOTHER ISSUE ON WHICH THEY DISAGREE.
ON WHICH THEY DISAGREE.
TED CRUZ -- TED CRUZ -- GWEN: BUT CHRIS CHRISTIE SAID GWEN: BUT CHRIS CHRISTIE SAID WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE FOR NOT WHAT WE'RE AGAINST.
FOR NOT WHAT WE'RE AGAINST.
IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THAT'S IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THAT'S HAPPENING YET.
HAPPENING YET.
>> AND BY THE WAY, CHRISTIE WAS >> AND BY THE WAY, CHRISTIE WAS FOR EVERYTHING THAT PEOPLE IN FOR EVERYTHING THAT PEOPLE IN THAT ROOM WERE FOR.
THAT ROOM WERE FOR.
HE CHECKED OFF EVERY BOX THAT HE CHECKED OFF EVERY BOX THAT HE COULD POSSIBLY CHECK OFF.
HE COULD POSSIBLY CHECK OFF.
RANGING -- FROM BEING RANGING -- FROM BEING ANTI-ABORTION TO TAKING ON ANTI-ABORTION TO TAKING ON OBAMACARE AND THE PRESIDENT.
OBAMACARE AND THE PRESIDENT.
SO LOOK, I THINK -- I THINK SO LOOK, I THINK -- I THINK THEY'RE ALL NOW IN THIS PHASE THEY'RE ALL NOW IN THIS PHASE WHERE THE ONLY THING THEY AGREE WHERE THE ONLY THING THEY AGREE ON IS THAT THEY DON'T LIKE ON IS THAT THEY DON'T LIKE PRESIDENT OBAMA.
PRESIDENT OBAMA.
AND THEY'RE AT A POINT WHERE AND THEY'RE AT A POINT WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO SEE WHO'S THEY'RE TRYING TO SEE WHO'S MORE CONSERVATIVE, WHO CAN MORE CONSERVATIVE, WHO CAN APPEAL TO THE BASE, AND BY THE APPEAL TO THE BASE, AND BY THE WAY, WHO MIGHT BE ABLE TO WIN WAY, WHO MIGHT BE ABLE TO WIN AN ELECTION?
AN ELECTION?
>> CHRISTIE HAUNTED BY THIS >> CHRISTIE HAUNTED BY THIS BRIDGE CONTROVERSY.
BRIDGE CONTROVERSY.
BUT THIS IS ACTUALLY A BUT THIS IS ACTUALLY A CONTROVERSIAL AUDIENCE FOR HIM CONTROVERSIAL AUDIENCE FOR HIM EVEN BEFORE THAT, RIGHT?
EVEN BEFORE THAT, RIGHT?
THIS IS NOT HIS NATURAL -- THIS IS NOT HIS NATURAL -- >> AND HE WASN'T -- THIS YEAR, >> AND HE WASN'T -- THIS YEAR, HE WAS ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT OR HE WAS ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT OR NOT EVEN GIVEN THE CONTROVERSY NOT EVEN GIVEN THE CONTROVERSY IN A MUCH BETTER POSITION WITH IN A MUCH BETTER POSITION WITH CONSERVATIVES.
CONSERVATIVES.
BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE HE'S BEEN BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE HE'S BEEN TAKEN ON BY THE MEDIA.
TAKEN ON BY THE MEDIA.
HE WAS RAILING AGAINST THE HE WAS RAILING AGAINST THE MEDIA.
MEDIA.
AND THEN GOT A STANDING AND THEN GOT A STANDING OVATION.
OVATION.
AT THIS CONFERENCE.
AT THIS CONFERENCE.
THEY DON'T REALLY MUCH LIKE THEY DON'T REALLY MUCH LIKE HIM.
HIM.
ONLY THREE OUT OF 10 ONLY THREE OUT OF 10 REPUBLICANS ACTUALLY SAY THEY REPUBLICANS ACTUALLY SAY THEY WOULD CONSIDER VOTING FOR HIM.
WOULD CONSIDER VOTING FOR HIM.
THEY'RE VERY SUSPECT ABOUT HIM.
THEY'RE VERY SUSPECT ABOUT HIM.
THEY BELIEVE -- THEY REMEMBER THEY BELIEVE -- THEY REMEMBER THE HUG THAT HE GAVE THE THE HUG THAT HE GAVE THE PRESIDENT AFTER HURRICANE PRESIDENT AFTER HURRICANE SANDY.
SANDY.
SO THEY'RE VERY SUSPECT OF HIM.
SO THEY'RE VERY SUSPECT OF HIM.
BUT HE CAME THERE AS KIND OF A BUT HE CAME THERE AS KIND OF A LITTLE BIT OF A HERO WHO TOOK LITTLE BIT OF A HERO WHO TOOK ON THE PRESS, AND IS BEING ON THE PRESS, AND IS BEING UNFAIRLY MALIGNED.
UNFAIRLY MALIGNED.
SO THEY WERE VERY RECEPTIVE TO SO THEY WERE VERY RECEPTIVE TO HIM.
HIM.
AT LEAST IN THIS AUDIENCE.
AT LEAST IN THIS AUDIENCE.
I STILL DO NOT BELIEVE HE'S THE I STILL DO NOT BELIEVE HE'S THE FAVORITE OF THE PEOPLE IN THAT FAVORITE OF THE PEOPLE IN THAT ROOM.
ROOM.
>> LET ME ASK, IS THERE A >> LET ME ASK, IS THERE A FAVORITE OF THE PEOPLE IN THAT FAVORITE OF THE PEOPLE IN THAT ROOM?
ROOM?
GO AHEAD.
GO AHEAD.
>> YOU HAVE TO -- THERE ISN'T.
>> YOU HAVE TO -- THERE ISN'T.
BUT RAND PAUL GOT A GREAT, BUT RAND PAUL GOT A GREAT, GREAT RECEPTION THERE.
GREAT RECEPTION THERE.
GWEN: HE WON THE STRAW POLL GWEN: HE WON THE STRAW POLL SUCH AS IT IS.
SUCH AS IT IS.
>> SUCH AS IT IS WHICH TELLS >> SUCH AS IT IS WHICH TELLS YOU NOTHING.
YOU NOTHING.
BUT YES.
BUT YES.
HE GOT -- HE GOT A GREAT HE GOT -- HE GOT A GREAT RECEPTION.
RECEPTION.
CRUZ GOT A WARM RECEPTION.
CRUZ GOT A WARM RECEPTION.
SO YOU CAN SEE WHERE THIS -- SO YOU CAN SEE WHERE THIS -- WHERE THIS GATHERING IS.
WHERE THIS GATHERING IS.
BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY TELL YOU BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY TELL YOU MUCH OF ANYTHING.
MUCH OF ANYTHING.
OTHER THAN THEY HAVE THE OTHER THAN THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO GIVE A GREAT SPEECH ABILITY TO GIVE A GREAT SPEECH AND THROW THE RED MEAT OUT TO AND THROW THE RED MEAT OUT TO THE BASE.
THE BASE.
GWEN: LET'S GO TO 2014.
GWEN: LET'S GO TO 2014.
A LITTLE CLOSER.
A LITTLE CLOSER.
MITCH MCCONNELL, THE SENATE MITCH MCCONNELL, THE SENATE MINORITY LEADER, WALKS OUT ON MINORITY LEADER, WALKS OUT ON STAGE WITH A BIG RIFLE, A STAGE WITH A BIG RIFLE, A FIREARM, A WEAPON.
FIREARM, A WEAPON.
AND WAVES IT OVER HIS HAND AND WAVES IT OVER HIS HAND CHARLTON HESTON STYLE.
CHARLTON HESTON STYLE.
WHAT WAS THAT?
WHAT WAS THAT?
>> MITCH MCCONNELL IS IN A VERY >> MITCH MCCONNELL IS IN A VERY TOUGH POLITICAL FIGHT BACK TOUGH POLITICAL FIGHT BACK HOME.
HOME.
NOW, WHAT'S HELPING HIM IS THAT NOW, WHAT'S HELPING HIM IS THAT RAND PAUL IS FOR HIM.
RAND PAUL IS FOR HIM.
VERY POPULAR IN THE HOME STATE VERY POPULAR IN THE HOME STATE OF KENTUCKY.
OF KENTUCKY.
VERY IMPORTANT TEA PARTIER.
VERY IMPORTANT TEA PARTIER.
SO HE'S GOT HIM ON HIS SIDE.
SO HE'S GOT HIM ON HIS SIDE.
THAT'S GOOD.
THAT'S GOOD.
BUT HE DOES -- IT'S REALLY BUT HE DOES -- IT'S REALLY GOING TO FACE A VERY TOUGH GOING TO FACE A VERY TOUGH FIGHT AND HE NEEDS TO SHORE UP FIGHT AND HE NEEDS TO SHORE UP THE BASE OF THE REPUBLICAN THE BASE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
PARTY.
GET THEM OUT THERE.
GET THEM OUT THERE.
SECOND AMENDMENT.
SECOND AMENDMENT.
VERY IMPORTANT TO THE VERY IMPORTANT TO THE REPUBLICAN BASE.
REPUBLICAN BASE.
AND SO MITCH MCCONNELL IS DOING AND SO MITCH MCCONNELL IS DOING WHAT HE HAS TO DO.
WHAT HE HAS TO DO.
BUT HE'S NOT RUNNING FOR BUT HE'S NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT.
BUT HE JUST WANTS TO GET BUT HE JUST WANTS TO GET RE-ELECTED AND BE THE LEADER OF RE-ELECTED AND BE THE LEADER OF THE REPUBLICAN SENATE WHICH HE THE REPUBLICAN SENATE WHICH HE WANTS TO TAKE OVER.
WANTS TO TAKE OVER.
>> A GUY WHO MIGHT BE RUNNING >> A GUY WHO MIGHT BE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, MARCO RUBIO, WE FOR PRESIDENT, MARCO RUBIO, WE DIDN'T MECHANICS HIM, WHAT DID DIDN'T MECHANICS HIM, WHAT DID HE DO?
HE DO?
>> MARCO RUBIO IS AN >> MARCO RUBIO IS AN INTERESTING FELLOW AND A LOT OF INTERESTING FELLOW AND A LOT OF CRITICISM FOR IMMIGRATION CRITICISM FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM AND LOOKING FOR A PATH REFORM AND LOOKING FOR A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP.
TO CITIZENSHIP.
WHAT HE'S TRYING TO DO RIGHT WHAT HE'S TRYING TO DO RIGHT NOW IS DISTINGUISH HIMSELF AS NOW IS DISTINGUISH HIMSELF AS THE PERSON THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THE PERSON THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WHO'S KIND OF MCCAIN LIGHT.
WHO'S KIND OF MCCAIN LIGHT.
MORE MUSCULAR.
MORE MUSCULAR.
INTERVENTIONIST FOREIGN POLICY.
INTERVENTIONIST FOREIGN POLICY.
GWEN: AND AS LONG AS THAT'S GWEN: AND AS LONG AS THAT'S GOING ON, THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK GOING ON, THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK DIVIDED WHETHER IN FACT THEY DIVIDED WHETHER IN FACT THEY ACTUALLY ARE BETWEEN NOW AND ACTUALLY ARE BETWEEN NOW AND ELECTION DAY.
ELECTION DAY.
>> YEP.
>> YEP.
GWEN: FUN TO WATCH.
GWEN: FUN TO WATCH.
THANK YOU, EVERYBODY.
THANK YOU, EVERYBODY.
WE HAVE TO LEAVE YOU A FEW WE HAVE TO LEAVE YOU A FEW MINUTES EARLY TONIGHT.
MINUTES EARLY TONIGHT.
BUT TO GIVE YOU THE CHANCE TO BUT TO GIVE YOU THE CHANCE TO SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL PBS STATION.
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL PBS STATION.
WHICH IN TURN SUPPORTS US.
WHICH IN TURN SUPPORTS US.
BUT OUR KFINGS CONTINUES BUT OUR KFINGS CONTINUES ONLINE.
ONLINE.
-- CONVERSATION CONTINUES -- CONVERSATION CONTINUES ONLINE.
ONLINE.
ON THE "WASHINGTON WEEK" ON THE "WASHINGTON WEEK" WEBCAST EXTRA WHERE WE'LL TALK WEBCAST EXTRA WHERE WE'LL TALK MORE UKRAINE AND MORE POLITICS.
MORE UKRAINE AND MORE POLITICS.
THAT STREAMS LIVE AT 8:30 P. .M THAT STREAMS LIVE AT 8:30 P. .M EASTERN TIME AND ALL WEEK LONG EASTERN TIME AND ALL WEEK LONG AT PBS.ORG/WASHINGTONWEEK.
AT PBS.ORG/WASHINGTONWEEK.
KEEP UP WITH DAILY DEVELOPMENTS KEEP UP WITH DAILY DEVELOPMENTS OVER ON THE PBS "NEWSHOUR" AND OVER ON THE PBS "NEWSHOUR" AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WE ONEK WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WE ONEK "WASHINGTON WEEK."
"WASHINGTON WEEK."
DON'T FORGET TO TURN THOSE DON'T FORGET TO TURN THOSE CLOCKS AHEAD.
CLOCKS AHEAD.
GOOD NIGHT.
