Government Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Debate & Health Insurance

Name: Government Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Debate & Health Insurance
Uploaded: 2013-10-05T01:23:18Z
Duration: P1491S

Special | 24m 51s | Video has closed captioning.

The shutdown standoff continues between President Obama and congressional republicans as the debt ceiling crisis looms, an estimated 800,000 federal government workers nationwide have been put on furlough, and the new online health insurance exchanges open for business. Joining Gwen: Dan Balz, Washington Post; John Dickerson, Slate Magazine; Molly Ball, The Atlantic; John Harwood, CNBC and The New

Aired: 10/04/13

Rating: NR

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Funding & Distribution
Transcript

Major funding for “Washington Week with The Atlantic” is provided by Consumer Cellular, Otsuka, Kaiser Permanente, the Yuen Foundation, and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

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>> THIS ISN'T SOME DAMN GAME.

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DON'T WANT THEIR GOVERNMENT SHUT DOWN AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DON'T WANT THEIR GOVERNMENT SHUT DOWN AND NEITHER DO IT.

THEIR GOVERNMENT SHUT DOWN AND NEITHER DO IT.

GWEN: AS TENSIONS RISE, SO DOES NEITHER DO IT.

GWEN: AS TENSIONS RISE, SO DOES THE RHETORIC.

>> THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE NOT THE RHETORIC.

>> THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE NOT PAWNS IN SOME POLITICAL GAME.

YOU DON'T GET TO DEMAND SOME PAWNS IN SOME POLITICAL GAME.

YOU DON'T GET TO DEMAND SOME RANSOM.

GWEN: THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN RANSOM.

GWEN: THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN PREPARES TO ENTER ITS SECOND GWEN: THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN PREPARES TO ENTER ITS SECOND WEEK.

PREPARES TO ENTER ITS SECOND WEEK.

>> IT'S PATHETIC.

WEEK.

>> IT'S PATHETIC.

IT'S NOT RESPONSIBLE.

>> IT'S PATHETIC.

IT'S NOT RESPONSIBLE.

IT'S BENEATH THE DIGNITY -- I IT'S NOT RESPONSIBLE.

IT'S BENEATH THE DIGNITY -- I KEEP SAYING THAT BUT WE KEEP IT'S BENEATH THE DIGNITY -- I KEEP SAYING THAT BUT WE KEEP GETTING FURTHER BENEATH THE KEEP SAYING THAT BUT WE KEEP GETTING FURTHER BENEATH THE DIGNITY.

GETTING FURTHER BENEATH THE DIGNITY.

>> THE PRESIDENT WILL NEGOTIATE DIGNITY.

>> THE PRESIDENT WILL NEGOTIATE WITH THE IRANIANS AND ABOUT >> THE PRESIDENT WILL NEGOTIATE WITH THE IRANIANS AND ABOUT SYRIA BUT THE PRESIDENT WILL NOT WITH THE IRANIANS AND ABOUT SYRIA BUT THE PRESIDENT WILL NOT TALK TO THE HOUSE.

SYRIA BUT THE PRESIDENT WILL NOT TALK TO THE HOUSE.

GWEN: MEANWHILE, THE NATIONAL TALK TO THE HOUSE.

GWEN: MEANWHILE, THE NATIONAL HEALTH CARE LAW EVERYONE IS GWEN: MEANWHILE, THE NATIONAL HEALTH CARE LAW EVERYONE IS FIGHTING ABOUTICKS K INTO HIGH HEALTH CARE LAW EVERYONE IS FIGHTING ABOUTICKS K INTO HIGH GEAR WITH A FEW PROBLEMS.

FIGHTING ABOUTICKS K INTO HIGH GEAR WITH A FEW PROBLEMS.

>> MY ADVICE TO THE AMERICAN GEAR WITH A FEW PROBLEMS.

>> MY ADVICE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BEWARE.

>> IT'S TIME FOR REPUBLICANS TO PEOPLE BEWARE.

>> IT'S TIME FOR REPUBLICANS TO STOP OBSESSING OVER OLD BATTLES.

I SAY TO MY REPUBLICAN FRIENDS, STOP OBSESSING OVER OLD BATTLES.

I SAY TO MY REPUBLICAN FRIENDS, OBAMACARE IS OVER.

IT'S PASSED, IT'S THE LAW.

OBAMACARE IS OVER.

IT'S PASSED, IT'S THE LAW.

GWEN: WILL WASHINGTON'S IT'S PASSED, IT'S THE LAW.

GWEN: WILL WASHINGTON'S DYSFUNCTIONS CRIPPLE THE ECONOMY GWEN: WILL WASHINGTON'S DYSFUNCTIONS CRIPPLE THE ECONOMY OR SAVE THE COUNTRY FROM A BAD DYSFUNCTIONS CRIPPLE THE ECONOMY OR SAVE THE COUNTRY FROM A BAD IDEA?

OR SAVE THE COUNTRY FROM A BAD IDEA?

COVERING THE WEEK, MOLLY BALL OF IDEA?

COVERING THE WEEK, MOLLY BALL OF "THE ATLANTIC," DAN BALZ OF THE COVERING THE WEEK, MOLLY BALL OF "THE ATLANTIC," DAN BALZ OF THE "WASHINGTON POST," JOHN "THE ATLANTIC," DAN BALZ OF THE "WASHINGTON POST," JOHN DIERSOCKN OF "SLATE" MAGAZINE "WASHINGTON POST," JOHN DIERSOCKN OF "SLATE" MAGAZINE AND CBS NEWS AND JOHN HARWOOD OF DIERSOCKN OF "SLATE" MAGAZINE AND CBS NEWS AND JOHN HARWOOD OF CNBC AND "THE NEW YORK TIMES."

AND CBS NEWS AND JOHN HARWOOD OF CNBC AND "THE NEW YORK TIMES."

>> AWARD-WINNING REPORTING AND CNBC AND "THE NEW YORK TIMES."

>> AWARD-WINNING REPORTING AND ANALYSIS.

COVERING HE'S -- HISTORY AS IT ANALYSIS.

COVERING HE'S -- HISTORY AS IT HAPPENS.

LIVE IN -- FROM OUR NATION'S HAPPENS.

LIVE IN -- FROM OUR NATION'S CAPITAL THIS IS "WASHINGTON LIVE IN -- FROM OUR NATION'S CAPITAL THIS IS "WASHINGTON WEEK".

ONCE AGAIN, MODERATOR GWEN IFILL.

GWEN: GOOD EVENING.

IFILL.

GWEN: GOOD EVENING.

WASHINGTON HAS NOT EXACTLY GWEN: GOOD EVENING.

WASHINGTON HAS NOT EXACTLY COVERED ITSELF WITH GLORY THIS WASHINGTON HAS NOT EXACTLY COVERED ITSELF WITH GLORY THIS WEEK.

COVERED ITSELF WITH GLORY THIS WEEK.

MANY OF ITS ELECTED WEEK.

MANY OF ITS ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES ARE NOT SPEAKING MANY OF ITS ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES ARE NOT SPEAKING TO EACH OTHER.

REPRESENTATIVES ARE NOT SPEAKING TO EACH OTHER.

800,000 GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES TO EACH OTHER.

800,000 GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES HAVE BEEN SIDELINED WITHOUT PAY, 800,000 GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES HAVE BEEN SIDELINED WITHOUT PAY, SHUTTERING MUSEUMS, NATIONAL HAVE BEEN SIDELINED WITHOUT PAY, SHUTTERING MUSEUMS, NATIONAL PARKS AND HEAD START PROGRAMS SHUTTERING MUSEUMS, NATIONAL PARKS AND HEAD START PROGRAMS AND AN AMBITIOUS NEW NATIONAL PARKS AND HEAD START PROGRAMS AND AN AMBITIOUS NEW NATIONAL HEALTH CARE PROGRAM WAS LAUNCHED AND AN AMBITIOUS NEW NATIONAL HEALTH CARE PROGRAM WAS LAUNCHED WITH GREAT FANFARE ONLY TO GET HEALTH CARE PROGRAM WAS LAUNCHED WITH GREAT FANFARE ONLY TO GET BOGGED DOWN IN DAYS OF TECHNICAL WITH GREAT FANFARE ONLY TO GET BOGGED DOWN IN DAYS OF TECHNICAL GLISMS.

BOGGED DOWN IN DAYS OF TECHNICAL GLISMS.

HAS YOUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GONE GLISMS.

HAS YOUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GONE PERMIT INNOCENTLY OFF THE RAILS?

HERE'S WHAT TWO HOUSE MEMBERS PERMIT INNOCENTLY OFF THE RAILS?

HERE'S WHAT TWO HOUSE MEMBERS HAD TO SAY THIS WEEK.

>> I FEEL LIKE I'M SERVING IN HAD TO SAY THIS WEEK.

>> I FEEL LIKE I'M SERVING IN THE NATION'S LARGEST >> I FEEL LIKE I'M SERVING IN THE NATION'S LARGEST KINDERGARTEN ONLY WE'RE IN THE NATION'S LARGEST KINDERGARTEN ONLY WE'RE IN CHARGE OF THE FEDERAL CHECKBOOK KINDERGARTEN ONLY WE'RE IN CHARGE OF THE FEDERAL CHECKBOOK AND THE NUCLEAR ARSENAL.

CHARGE OF THE FEDERAL CHECKBOOK AND THE NUCLEAR ARSENAL.

WE'RE ALL TIRED OF THE AND THE NUCLEAR ARSENAL.

WE'RE ALL TIRED OF THE BRINKSMANSHIP AND SHOWMANSHIP WE'RE ALL TIRED OF THE BRINKSMANSHIP AND SHOWMANSHIP AND WE WANT TO GET ON WITH THE BRINKSMANSHIP AND SHOWMANSHIP AND WE WANT TO GET ON WITH THE BUSINESS OF GOVERNING.

AND WE WANT TO GET ON WITH THE BUSINESS OF GOVERNING.

WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO BUSINESS OF GOVERNING.

WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO GOVERN.

WE HAVE TO DO BETTER.

GOVERN.

WE HAVE TO DO BETTER.

GWEN: THE PRESIDENT TODAY TOOK A WE HAVE TO DO BETTER.

GWEN: THE PRESIDENT TODAY TOOK A LUNCH-TIME STROLL WITH VICE GWEN: THE PRESIDENT TODAY TOOK A LUNCH-TIME STROLL WITH VICE PRESIDENT BIDE ON THE A LUNCH-TIME STROLL WITH VICE PRESIDENT BIDE ON THE A PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE SANDWICH PRESIDENT BIDE ON THE A PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE SANDWICH SHOP THAT'S GIVING DISCOUNTS TO PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE SANDWICH SHOP THAT'S GIVING DISCOUNTS TO FURLOUGHED FEDERAL EMPLOYEES.

SHOP THAT'S GIVING DISCOUNTS TO FURLOUGHED FEDERAL EMPLOYEES.

>> THIS SHUTDOWN COULD BE OVER FURLOUGHED FEDERAL EMPLOYEES.

>> THIS SHUTDOWN COULD BE OVER TODAY.

WE KNOW THERE ARE THE VOTES FOR TODAY.

WE KNOW THERE ARE THE VOTES FOR IT IN THE HOUSE OF WE KNOW THERE ARE THE VOTES FOR IT IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

IT IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

AS I SAID YESTERDAY, IF SPEAKER REPRESENTATIVES.

AS I SAID YESTERDAY, IF SPEAKER BOEHNER WILL SIMPLY ALLOW THAT AS I SAID YESTERDAY, IF SPEAKER BOEHNER WILL SIMPLY ALLOW THAT VOTE TO TAKE PLACE, WE CAN END BOEHNER WILL SIMPLY ALLOW THAT VOTE TO TAKE PLACE, WE CAN END THIS SHUTDOWN.

VOTE TO TAKE PLACE, WE CAN END THIS SHUTDOWN.

GWEN: MR. BOEHNER BEGS TO THIS SHUTDOWN.

GWEN: MR. BOEHNER BEGS TO DISAGREE.

>> ALL WE'RE ASKING FOR IS TO DISAGREE.

>> ALL WE'RE ASKING FOR IS TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE A DISCUSSION >> ALL WE'RE ASKING FOR IS TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE A DISCUSSION AND TO REOPEN THE GOVERNMENT AND SIT DOWN AND HAVE A DISCUSSION AND TO REOPEN THE GOVERNMENT AND BRING FAIRNESS TO THE AMERICAN AND TO REOPEN THE GOVERNMENT AND BRING FAIRNESS TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE OVER OBAMACARE.

BRING FAIRNESS TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE OVER OBAMACARE.

IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

PEOPLE OVER OBAMACARE.

IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

GWEN: BUT EVERYTHING IS FROZEN IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

GWEN: BUT EVERYTHING IS FROZEN IN WASHINGTON RIGHT NOW.

NO NEGOTIATIONS UNDERWAY, NO END IN WASHINGTON RIGHT NOW.

NO NEGOTIATIONS UNDERWAY, NO END IN SIGHT.

WHAT'S THE STATE OF PLAY?

IN SIGHT.

WHAT'S THE STATE OF PLAY?

>> A TOTAL STAND STILL RIGHT WHAT'S THE STATE OF PLAY?

>> A TOTAL STAND STILL RIGHT NOW.

WE HAVE THESE TWO CRY SAYS.

NOW.

WE HAVE THESE TWO CRY SAYS.

THE GOVERNMENT'S FUNDING CRISIS.

WE HAVE THESE TWO CRY SAYS.

THE GOVERNMENT'S FUNDING CRISIS.

THE PRESIDENT HAD TO CANCEL ITS THE GOVERNMENT'S FUNDING CRISIS.

THE PRESIDENT HAD TO CANCEL ITS TRIP TO AISHA.

CANCER PATIENTS ARE NOT GETTING TRIP TO AISHA.

CANCER PATIENTS ARE NOT GETTING SEEN.

WOMEN ON RELIEF, 9 MILLION NOT SEEN.

WOMEN ON RELIEF, 9 MILLION NOT GETTING THEIR MONEY.

THEN THERE'S THIS DEBT LIMIT GETTING THEIR MONEY.

THEN THERE'S THIS DEBT LIMIT FIGHT.

THESE USED TO BE SEPARATE ISSUES FIGHT.

THESE USED TO BE SEPARATE ISSUES AND NOW THEY'RE BASICALLY ROLLED THESE USED TO BE SEPARATE ISSUES AND NOW THEY'RE BASICALLY ROLLED INTO ONE, THAT'S THE WAY THE AND NOW THEY'RE BASICALLY ROLLED INTO ONE, THAT'S THE WAY THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE THINKING INTO ONE, THAT'S THE WAY THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE THINKING ABOUT IT.

HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE THINKING ABOUT IT.

THEY'RE TRYING TO FIND SOME ABOUT IT.

THEY'RE TRYING TO FIND SOME SPENDING CONCESSIONS IN RETURN THEY'RE TRYING TO FIND SOME SPENDING CONCESSIONS IN RETURN FOR RAISING THE DEBT LIMIT AND SPENDING CONCESSIONS IN RETURN FOR RAISING THE DEBT LIMIT AND THE PRESIDENT'S ANSWER IS FOR RAISING THE DEBT LIMIT AND THE PRESIDENT'S ANSWER IS BASICALLY NUTS TO YOU.

THE PRESIDENT'S ANSWER IS BASICALLY NUTS TO YOU.

YOU HAVE TO RAISE THE DEBT BASICALLY NUTS TO YOU.

YOU HAVE TO RAISE THE DEBT LIMIT, NO CONDITIONS AT ALL.

THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING LIMIT, NO CONDITIONS AT ALL.

THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING WE HAVE NO ONE TO TALK TO.

THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE STAND AT WE HAVE NO ONE TO TALK TO.

THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE STAND AT THE MOMENT.

THAT'S A VERY DIRE LOOKING THE MOMENT.

THAT'S A VERY DIRE LOOKING PICTURE BUT THERE IS ONE SORT OF THAT'S A VERY DIRE LOOKING PICTURE BUT THERE IS ONE SORT OF HAPPY PASTURE THEY COULD ALL GET PICTURE BUT THERE IS ONE SORT OF HAPPY PASTURE THEY COULD ALL GET TO BASED ON SOME CONVERSATIONS I HAPPY PASTURE THEY COULD ALL GET TO BASED ON SOME CONVERSATIONS I HAD TONIGHT.

TO BASED ON SOME CONVERSATIONS I HAD TONIGHT.

JOHN BOEHNER TALKS TO HARRY HAD TONIGHT.

JOHN BOEHNER TALKS TO HARRY REID, THE DEMOCRATIC LEADER IN JOHN BOEHNER TALKS TO HARRY REID, THE DEMOCRATIC LEADER IN THE SENATE AND SAYS OK, WE'LL REID, THE DEMOCRATIC LEADER IN THE SENATE AND SAYS OK, WE'LL HAVE A CLEAN DEBT LIMIT INCREASE THE SENATE AND SAYS OK, WE'LL HAVE A CLEAN DEBT LIMIT INCREASE WHAT THE PRESIDENT WANTS, AND HAVE A CLEAN DEBT LIMIT INCREASE WHAT THE PRESIDENT WANTS, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE AN AGREEMENT WHAT THE PRESIDENT WANTS, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE AN AGREEMENT WHEN WE DO THAT, HAVE A BINDING THEN WE'LL HAVE AN AGREEMENT WHEN WE DO THAT, HAVE A BINDING AGREEMENT TO ENTER INTO SOME WHEN WE DO THAT, HAVE A BINDING AGREEMENT TO ENTER INTO SOME NEGOTIATIONS IN WHICH WE'LL AGREEMENT TO ENTER INTO SOME NEGOTIATIONS IN WHICH WE'LL DISCUSS ENTITLEMENTS, TAX NEGOTIATIONS IN WHICH WE'LL DISCUSS ENTITLEMENTS, TAX REFORM, A WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS DISCUSS ENTITLEMENTS, TAX REFORM, A WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS TO GET SOME SAVINGS OUT OF THE REFORM, A WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS TO GET SOME SAVINGS OUT OF THE BUDGETS.

TO GET SOME SAVINGS OUT OF THE BUDGETS.

THEY WILL TWO THINGS BUDGETS.

THEY WILL TWO THINGS AREN'T LINKED BUT THEY WILL BE THEY WILL TWO THINGS AREN'T LINKED BUT THEY WILL BE LINKED.

AREN'T LINKED BUT THEY WILL BE LINKED.

THAT WAY EVERYBODY IS CLEAN AND LINKED.

THAT WAY EVERYBODY IS CLEAN AND SERVE DIRTY IS -- AS ONE THAT WAY EVERYBODY IS CLEAN AND SERVE DIRTY IS -- AS ONE EXPRESSED IT.

SERVE DIRTY IS -- AS ONE EXPRESSED IT.

GWEN: DAN, WHY TO THIS POINT EXPRESSED IT.

GWEN: DAN, WHY TO THIS POINT HAVE THERE NOT BEEN GWEN: DAN, WHY TO THIS POINT HAVE THERE NOT BEEN NEGOTIATIONS?

HAVE THERE NOT BEEN NEGOTIATIONS?

THE REPUBLICANS HAVE A POINT, NEGOTIATIONS?

THE REPUBLICANS HAVE A POINT, THE PRESIDENT IS REIFERSING TO THE REPUBLICANS HAVE A POINT, THE PRESIDENT IS REIFERSING TO NEGOTIATE.

THE PRESIDENT IS REIFERSING TO NEGOTIATE.

>> THE PRESIDENT'S POSITION HAS NEGOTIATE.

>> THE PRESIDENT'S POSITION HAS BEEN HARD AND FIRM, THAT THIS IS >> THE PRESIDENT'S POSITION HAS BEEN HARD AND FIRM, THAT THIS IS A SHUTDOWN ENTIRELY OF THE BEEN HARD AND FIRM, THAT THIS IS A SHUTDOWN ENTIRELY OF THE MAKING OF A FACTION OF THE A SHUTDOWN ENTIRELY OF THE MAKING OF A FACTION OF THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE, THE MOST MAKING OF A FACTION OF THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE, THE MOST CONSERVATIVE PART OF THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE, THE MOST CONSERVATIVE PART OF THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IN THE CONSERVATIVE PART OF THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IN THE HOUSE, WHICH HAS, IN THEIR REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE IN THE HOUSE, WHICH HAS, IN THEIR ESTIMATION FORCED JOHN BOEHNER HOUSE, WHICH HAS, IN THEIR ESTIMATION FORCED JOHN BOEHNER TO TAKE THE PATH, TO TRY A ESTIMATION FORCED JOHN BOEHNER TO TAKE THE PATH, TO TRY A SERIOUS OF PATHS TO DO SOMETHING TO TAKE THE PATH, TO TRY A SERIOUS OF PATHS TO DO SOMETHING TO THE PRESIDENT'S HEALTH CARE SERIOUS OF PATHS TO DO SOMETHING TO THE PRESIDENT'S HEALTH CARE REFORM AND THEY'VE TAKEN A FIRM TO THE PRESIDENT'S HEALTH CARE REFORM AND THEY'VE TAKEN A FIRM LINE THAT THEY'RE SIMPLY NOT REFORM AND THEY'VE TAKEN A FIRM LINE THAT THEY'RE SIMPLY NOT GOING TO TALK UNDER THOSE LINE THAT THEY'RE SIMPLY NOT GOING TO TALK UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES.

GOING TO TALK UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES.

SO YOU JUST THIS -- HAVE THIS CIRCUMSTANCES.

SO YOU JUST THIS -- HAVE THIS IMPASSE UNLIKE ALMOST ANYTHING SO YOU JUST THIS -- HAVE THIS IMPASSE UNLIKE ALMOST ANYTHING WE'VE SEEN.

IMPASSE UNLIKE ALMOST ANYTHING WE'VE SEEN.

GWEN: LET'S LISTEN TO A BIT OF WE'VE SEEN.

GWEN: LET'S LISTEN TO A BIT OF THAT FIRM LINE FROM SENATOR GWEN: LET'S LISTEN TO A BIT OF THAT FIRM LINE FROM SENATOR MARCO RUBIO, SENATOR FROM THAT FIRM LINE FROM SENATOR MARCO RUBIO, SENATOR FROM FLORIDA.

MARCO RUBIO, SENATOR FROM FLORIDA.

>> I THINK IT'S WRONG, TOO, BY FLORIDA.

>> I THINK IT'S WRONG, TOO, BY THE WAY, THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS >> I THINK IT'S WRONG, TOO, BY THE WAY, THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS USED THE MEGAPHONE OF THE THE WAY, THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS USED THE MEGAPHONE OF THE PRESIDENCY NOT TO BRING USED THE MEGAPHONE OF THE PRESIDENCY NOT TO BRING AMERICANS TOGETHER BUT TO DEEPEN PRESIDENCY NOT TO BRING AMERICANS TOGETHER BUT TO DEEPEN THESE DIVISIONS.

AMERICANS TOGETHER BUT TO DEEPEN THESE DIVISIONS.

MR. PRESIDENT, YOU'RE NOT THE THESE DIVISIONS.

MR. PRESIDENT, YOU'RE NOT THE CHAIRMAN OF THE DEMOCRATIC MR. PRESIDENT, YOU'RE NOT THE CHAIRMAN OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

CHAIRMAN OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

YOU ARE THE PRESIDENT OF THE PARTY.

YOU ARE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

GWEN: JOHN, YOU TALKED TO THE UNITED STATES.

GWEN: JOHN, YOU TALKED TO THE PRESIDENT THIS WEEK IN AN GWEN: JOHN, YOU TALKED TO THE PRESIDENT THIS WEEK IN AN INTERVIEW AT THE WHITE HOUSE.

PRESIDENT THIS WEEK IN AN INTERVIEW AT THE WHITE HOUSE.

DULLED HE HEAR THAT KIND OF INTERVIEW AT THE WHITE HOUSE.

DULLED HE HEAR THAT KIND OF KIND OF CRITICISM AT ALL GO BA DULLED HE HEAR THAT KIND OF KIND OF CRITICISM AT ALL GO BA QUESTION YOU POSED TO DAN, DO KIND OF CRITICISM AT ALL GO BA QUESTION YOU POSED TO DAN, DO REPUBLICANS HAVE A POINT?

QUESTION YOU POSED TO DAN, DO REPUBLICANS HAVE A POINT?

TELLING THE TRUTH REQUIRES THAT REPUBLICANS HAVE A POINT?

TELLING THE TRUTH REQUIRES THAT WE SAY NO, THEY DON'T HAVE A TELLING THE TRUTH REQUIRES THAT WE SAY NO, THEY DON'T HAVE A POINT.

WE SAY NO, THEY DON'T HAVE A POINT.

THEIR POSITION IS NOT POINT.

THEIR POSITION IS NOT DEFENSIBLE.

LET'S REVIEW THE BIDDING FOR A DEFENSIBLE.

LET'S REVIEW THE BIDDING FOR A MOMENT.

GWEN: OK.

MOMENT.

GWEN: OK. >> AFTER THE 2012 ELECTION, THE GWEN: OK. >> AFTER THE 2012 ELECTION, THE SPEAKER SAID I'M NOT NEGOTIATING >> AFTER THE 2012 ELECTION, THE SPEAKER SAID I'M NOT NEGOTIATING WITH THE PRESIDENT ANYMORE.

SPEAKER SAID I'M NOT NEGOTIATING WITH THE PRESIDENT ANYMORE.

THEY DEMNLEDED THAT THE SENATE WITH THE PRESIDENT ANYMORE.

THEY DEMNLEDED THAT THE SENATE PASSED A BUDGET.

THE SENATE DID, THE HOUSE DID.

PASSED A BUDGET.

THE SENATE DID, THE HOUSE DID.

DO WE HAVE A CONFERENCE THE SENATE DID, THE HOUSE DID.

DO WE HAVE A CONFERENCE COMMITTEE?

NO.

COMMITTEE?

NO.

WHAT HAPPENED ON SPENDING WAS NO.

WHAT HAPPENED ON SPENDING WAS THAT REPUBLICANS, WITH THE WHAT HAPPENED ON SPENDING WAS THAT REPUBLICANS, WITH THE SEQUESTER LEVELS THAT THEY THAT REPUBLICANS, WITH THE SEQUESTER LEVELS THAT THEY INSISTED ON BEGAN TRYING TO PASS SEQUESTER LEVELS THAT THEY INSISTED ON BEGAN TRYING TO PASS SPENDING BILLS AT THOSE LEVELS INSISTED ON BEGAN TRYING TO PASS SPENDING BILLS AT THOSE LEVELS AND WOULD NOT BECAUSE SPENDING BILLS AT THOSE LEVELS AND WOULD NOT BECAUSE REPUBLICANS THOUGHT THEY WERE AND WOULD NOT BECAUSE REPUBLICANS THOUGHT THEY WERE TOO LOW.

REPUBLICANS THOUGHT THEY WERE TOO LOW.

THERE WAS NO SPENDING TOO LOW.

THERE WAS NO SPENDING CONVERSATION.

THEY LANDFALLED ON TO THE CONVERSATION.

THEY LANDFALLED ON TO THE OBAMACARE ISSUE AND DEMANDED OF THEY LANDFALLED ON TO THE OBAMACARE ISSUE AND DEMANDED OF THE PRESIDENT -- AGREED TO OBAMACARE ISSUE AND DEMANDED OF THE PRESIDENT -- AGREED TO DEFUND OBAMACARE AND WE'LL OPEN THE PRESIDENT -- AGREED TO DEFUND OBAMACARE AND WE'LL OPEN THE GOVERNMENT AND RAISE THE DEFUND OBAMACARE AND WE'LL OPEN THE GOVERNMENT AND RAISE THE DEBT LIMIT.

THE GOVERNMENT AND RAISE THE DEBT LIMIT.

WHICH IS NOT FAR FROM SAY, MR. DEBT LIMIT.

WHICH IS NOT FAR FROM SAY, MR. PRESIDENT, WE'LL KEEP THE WHICH IS NOT FAR FROM SAY, MR. PRESIDENT, WE'LL KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OPEN AND RAISE THE PRESIDENT, WE'LL KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OPEN AND RAISE THE DEBT LIMIT IF YOU RESIGN.

GOVERNMENT OPEN AND RAISE THE DEBT LIMIT IF YOU RESIGN.

AND WHEN -- THEN WHEN HE SAYS DEBT LIMIT IF YOU RESIGN.

AND WHEN -- THEN WHEN HE SAYS NO, OK, WE'LL COMPROMISE, AND WHEN -- THEN WHEN HE SAYS NO, OK, WE'LL COMPROMISE, RE-SIGN A WEEK FROM NOW.

NO, OK, WE'LL COMPROMISE, RE-SIGN A WEEK FROM NOW.

THEN HOW ABOUT A WEEK ONLY?

RE-SIGN A WEEK FROM NOW.

THEN HOW ABOUT A WEEK ONLY?

THEY'RE OPENING A CONVERSATION THEN HOW ABOUT A WEEK ONLY?

THEY'RE OPENING A CONVERSATION ON SPENDING AND THE BUDGET THAT THEY'RE OPENING A CONVERSATION ON SPENDING AND THE BUDGET THAT DID NOT EXIST.

ON SPENDING AND THE BUDGET THAT DID NOT EXIST.

GWEN: THERE HAS BEEN SOME CHANGE DID NOT EXIST.

GWEN: THERE HAS BEEN SOME CHANGE IN SOME OF THE STRATEGY.

AT FIRST THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT IN SOME OF THE STRATEGY.

AT FIRST THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT REPEALING THE HEALTH CARE PLAN.

THEN IT WAS TAKING THE MONEY REPEALING THE HEALTH CARE PLAN.

THEN IT WAS TAKING THE MONEY AWAY, STARVING IT TO DEATH, THEN IT WAS TAKING THE MONEY AWAY, STARVING IT TO DEATH, DEFUNDING THE HEALTH CARE PLAN.

AWAY, STARVING IT TO DEATH, DEFUNDING THE HEALTH CARE PLAN.

NOW THE THAT'S -- LAST WE HEARD DEFUNDING THE HEALTH CARE PLAN.

NOW THE THAT'S -- LAST WE HEARD THE CONVERSATION WAS ABOUT NOW THE THAT'S -- LAST WE HEARD THE CONVERSATION WAS ABOUT DELAYING IT.

THE CONVERSATION WAS ABOUT DELAYING IT.

ISN'T THAT A SLOW BACA WAY?

DELAYING IT.

ISN'T THAT A SLOW BACA WAY?

>> SURE, FROM THE POINT OF VIEW ISN'T THAT A SLOW BACA WAY?

>> SURE, FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF THE TEA PARTY GRASSROOTS.

THAT'S WHO PUSHED THIS.

OF THE TEA PARTY GRASSROOTS.

THAT'S WHO PUSHED THIS.

IT WAS A LOT OF OUTSIDE GROUPS THAT'S WHO PUSHED THIS.

IT WAS A LOT OF OUTSIDE GROUPS ON THE RIGHT THAT PUSHED THIS IT WAS A LOT OF OUTSIDE GROUPS ON THE RIGHT THAT PUSHED THIS IDEA OF DEFUNDING.

ON THE RIGHT THAT PUSHED THIS IDEA OF DEFUNDING.

FROM THEIR POINT OF VIEW THEY IDEA OF DEFUNDING.

FROM THEIR POINT OF VIEW THEY HAVE MADE CONCESSIONS, BUT THE FROM THEIR POINT OF VIEW THEY HAVE MADE CONCESSIONS, BUT THE PROBLEM IS, AS JOHN IS SAYING, HAVE MADE CONCESSIONS, BUT THE PROBLEM IS, AS JOHN IS SAYING, THEY STARTED OUT WITH THIS PROBLEM IS, AS JOHN IS SAYING, THEY STARTED OUT WITH THIS DEMAND THAT WAS NOT ON ANYBODY'S THEY STARTED OUT WITH THIS DEMAND THAT WAS NOT ON ANYBODY'S RADAR, THAT EVEN MOTHES DEMAND THAT WAS NOT ON ANYBODY'S RADAR, THAT EVEN MOTHES REPUBLICANS HAD DISMISSED AS RADAR, THAT EVEN MOTHES REPUBLICANS HAD DISMISSED AS OUTLANDISH.

REPUBLICANS HAD DISMISSED AS OUTLANDISH.

PART OF THE REASON THAT OUTLANDISH.

PART OF THE REASON THAT REPUBLICANS ARE SQUIRMING SO PART OF THE REASON THAT REPUBLICANS ARE SQUIRMING SO MUCH RIGHT NOW IS BECAUSE THEY REPUBLICANS ARE SQUIRMING SO MUCH RIGHT NOW IS BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY WERE UP AGAINST A MUCH RIGHT NOW IS BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY WERE UP AGAINST A WALL.

KNOW THEY WERE UP AGAINST A WALL.

THEY DON'T HAVE ANY GOOD WALL.

THEY DON'T HAVE ANY GOOD OPTIONS.

THEY'RE TRYING TO TURN THE OPTIONS.

THEY'RE TRYING TO TURN THE POLITICS AROUND BECAUSE THEY THEY'RE TRYING TO TURN THE POLITICS AROUND BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A PLAN.

POLITICS AROUND BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A PLAN.

THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD DON'T HAVE A PLAN.

THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD ASK FOR IF THEY GOT INTO THE THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD ASK FOR IF THEY GOT INTO THE ROOM WITH THE PRESIDENT AND HE ASK FOR IF THEY GOT INTO THE ROOM WITH THE PRESIDENT AND HE DID NEGOTIATE.

ROOM WITH THE PRESIDENT AND HE DID NEGOTIATE.

>> AS JOHN OUTLINED, THE COUNTRY DID NEGOTIATE.

>> AS JOHN OUTLINED, THE COUNTRY BUYS JOHN'S ANALYSIS.

IF YOU ASKED PEOPLE BEFORE THE BUYS JOHN'S ANALYSIS.

IF YOU ASKED PEOPLE BEFORE THE SHUTDOWN, SHOULD THE DEFUNDING IF YOU ASKED PEOPLE BEFORE THE SHUTDOWN, SHOULD THE DEFUNDING OF THE PRESIDENT'S HEALTH CARE SHUTDOWN, SHOULD THE DEFUNDING OF THE PRESIDENT'S HEALTH CARE PLAN BE TIED TO THE CONTINUED OF THE PRESIDENT'S HEALTH CARE PLAN BE TIED TO THE CONTINUED FUNDING OF THE GOVERNMENT.

PLAN BE TIED TO THE CONTINUED FUNDING OF THE GOVERNMENT.

IN FIVE SEPARATE POLLS FUNDING OF THE GOVERNMENT.

IN FIVE SEPARATE POLLS VAST OPPOSITION.

THE REPUBLICANS WENT AHEAD WITH VAST OPPOSITION.

THE REPUBLICANS WENT AHEAD WITH THEIR STRATEGY ANYWAY.

THEN IN POLLS SINCE THEN, 72% OF THEIR STRATEGY ANYWAY.

THEN IN POLLS SINCE THEN, 72% OF THE PEOPLE POLLED SAID THIS IS A THEN IN POLLS SINCE THEN, 72% OF THE PEOPLE POLLED SAID THIS IS A BAD IDEA BUT IF YOU THEN ASK THE PEOPLE POLLED SAID THIS IS A BAD IDEA BUT IF YOU THEN ASK PEOPLE SHOULD THERE BE SOME BAD IDEA BUT IF YOU THEN ASK PEOPLE SHOULD THERE BE SOME SPENDING REDEPUX THES ASSOCIATED PEOPLE SHOULD THERE BE SOME SPENDING REDEPUX THES ASSOCIATED WITH AND TIED TO THE DEBT LIMIT SPENDING REDEPUX THES ASSOCIATED WITH AND TIED TO THE DEBT LIMIT IN CHANGE.

WITH AND TIED TO THE DEBT LIMIT IN CHANGE.

THE PRESIDENT SAYS YOU SHOULD IN CHANGE.

THE PRESIDENT SAYS YOU SHOULD HAVE NO ADDITIONAL THINGS TIED THE PRESIDENT SAYS YOU SHOULD HAVE NO ADDITIONAL THINGS TIED TO IT GETS LESS THAN 70% FROM HAVE NO ADDITIONAL THINGS TIED TO IT GETS LESS THAN 70% FROM THE COUNTRY.

TO IT GETS LESS THAN 70% FROM THE COUNTRY.

THE REPUBLICANS THINK SPENDING THE COUNTRY.

THE REPUBLICANS THINK SPENDING CUTS ASSOCIATED WITH A DEBT THE REPUBLICANS THINK SPENDING CUTS ASSOCIATED WITH A DEBT INCREASE IS MORE POPULAR.

CUTS ASSOCIATED WITH A DEBT INCREASE IS MORE POPULAR.

THE PROBLEM, ADDS REPUBLICANS INCREASE IS MORE POPULAR.

THE PROBLEM, ADDS REPUBLICANS EXPLAINED IT TO ME IN THE THE PROBLEM, ADDS REPUBLICANS EXPLAINED IT TO ME IN THE SENATE, WE HAVE THIS FIGHT OVER EXPLAINED IT TO ME IN THE SENATE, WE HAVE THIS FIGHT OVER OBAMACARE, WE'RE GOING TO LOSE.

SENATE, WE HAVE THIS FIGHT OVER OBAMACARE, WE'RE GOING TO LOSE.

THAT'S WHAT THE COUNTRY IS OBAMACARE, WE'RE GOING TO LOSE.

THAT'S WHAT THE COUNTRY IS SEEING.

THEY'RE NOT HEARING OUR ARGUMENT SEEING.

THEY'RE NOT HEARING OUR ARGUMENT OVER HERE.

>> THAT'S THE POINT.

OVER HERE.

>> THAT'S THE POINT.

THE PLACE WHERE REPUBLICANS ARE >> THAT'S THE POINT.

THE PLACE WHERE REPUBLICANS ARE ON FIMPLER GROUND, WHERE THEY THE PLACE WHERE REPUBLICANS ARE ON FIMPLER GROUND, WHERE THEY HAVE A STRONG POSITION, THEY'VE ON FIMPLER GROUND, WHERE THEY HAVE A STRONG POSITION, THEY'VE NOT BEEN WAGING THAT ARGUMENT.

HAVE A STRONG POSITION, THEY'VE NOT BEEN WAGING THAT ARGUMENT.

GWEN: ARE THE DEMOCRATS JUST -- NOT BEEN WAGING THAT ARGUMENT.

GWEN: ARE THE DEMOCRATS JUST -- IT'S WEIRD TO HAVE THE DEMOCRATS GWEN: ARE THE DEMOCRATS JUST -- IT'S WEIRD TO HAVE THE DEMOCRATS IN LOCKSTEP FOR A CHANGE AND IT'S WEIRD TO HAVE THE DEMOCRATS IN LOCKSTEP FOR A CHANGE AND HAVE THE REPUBLICANS FIGHTING IN LOCKSTEP FOR A CHANGE AND HAVE THE REPUBLICANS FIGHTING AMONGST THEMSELVES.

HAVE THE REPUBLICANS FIGHTING AMONGST THEMSELVES.

ARE THEY JUST HAPPY TO STEP BACK AMONGST THEMSELVES.

ARE THEY JUST HAPPY TO STEP BACK AND LET THIS WORK OUT?

>> THEY'RE FRUSTRATED.

AND LET THIS WORK OUT?

>> THEY'RE FRUSTRATED.

BUT THEY DON'T SEE ANY ADVANTAGE >> THEY'RE FRUSTRATED.

BUT THEY DON'T SEE ANY ADVANTAGE AT THIS POINT TO TRY TO DO BUT THEY DON'T SEE ANY ADVANTAGE AT THIS POINT TO TRY TO DO ANYTHING TO TRY TO HELP THE AT THIS POINT TO TRY TO DO ANYTHING TO TRY TO HELP THE REPUBLICANS OUT AT THIS MOMENT.

ANYTHING TO TRY TO HELP THE REPUBLICANS OUT AT THIS MOMENT.

AS BOTH JOHNS HAVE INDICATED.

REPUBLICANS OUT AT THIS MOMENT.

AS BOTH JOHNS HAVE INDICATED.

GWEN: BOTH JOHNS, I LIKE THAT.

AS BOTH JOHNS HAVE INDICATED.

GWEN: BOTH JOHNS, I LIKE THAT.

>> THE REPUBLICANS LOOK AT GWEN: BOTH JOHNS, I LIKE THAT.

>> THE REPUBLICANS LOOK AT PUBLIC OPINION AND SEE THINGS >> THE REPUBLICANS LOOK AT PUBLIC OPINION AND SEE THINGS THEY THINK ARE ON THEIR SIDE, PUBLIC OPINION AND SEE THINGS THEY THINK ARE ON THEIR SIDE, THAT A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS THEY THINK ARE ON THEIR SIDE, THAT A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DISLIKE THE HEALTH CARE ACT AND THAT A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DISLIKE THE HEALTH CARE ACT AND THAT A MINORITY OF -- MAJORITY DISLIKE THE HEALTH CARE ACT AND THAT A MINORITY OF -- MAJORITY OF AMERICANS THINK THE THAT A MINORITY OF -- MAJORITY OF AMERICANS THINK THE GOVERNMENT SPENDS TOO MUCH OF AMERICANS THINK THE GOVERNMENT SPENDS TOO MUCH MONEY.

GOVERNMENT SPENDS TOO MUCH MONEY.

WHERE THEY MADE ANYWHERE MONEY.

WHERE THEY MADE ANYWHERE MISTAKE, I THINK, IS IN TRYING WHERE THEY MADE ANYWHERE MISTAKE, I THINK, IS IN TRYING TO TIE IT TO SOME THINGS THAT MISTAKE, I THINK, IS IN TRYING TO TIE IT TO SOME THINGS THAT ARE IN A SENSE UNRELATED TO TO TIE IT TO SOME THINGS THAT ARE IN A SENSE UNRELATED TO THAT.

ARE IN A SENSE UNRELATED TO THAT.

GWEN: THE HEALTH CARE ACT THAT.

GWEN: THE HEALTH CARE ACT LAUNCHED INTO FULL FLOWER THIS GWEN: THE HEALTH CARE ACT LAUNCHED INTO FULL FLOWER THIS WEEK -- LAUNCHED INTO FULL FLOWER THIS WEEK -- >> FOR BETTER OR WORSE.

WEEK -- >> FOR BETTER OR WORSE.

>> I YOU SHOULD SAY THE FLOWER >> FOR BETTER OR WORSE.

>> I YOU SHOULD SAY THE FLOWER HAS OUTRUN -- >> I YOU SHOULD SAY THE FLOWER HAS OUTRUN -- GWEN: THIS IS TRUE.

HAS OUTRUN -- GWEN: THIS IS TRUE.

BUT THAT SAID, DID ANYBODY GET GWEN: THIS IS TRUE.

BUT THAT SAID, DID ANYBODY GET ANY CLOSER IN ALL OF THIS TO BUT THAT SAID, DID ANYBODY GET ANY CLOSER IN ALL OF THIS TO SHUTTING IT DOWN?

ANY CLOSER IN ALL OF THIS TO SHUTTING IT DOWN?

THAT'S NOT HAPPENING.

SHUTTING IT DOWN?

THAT'S NOT HAPPENING.

>> NO, I THINK THE ONLY WAY YOU THAT'S NOT HAPPENING.

>> NO, I THINK THE ONLY WAY YOU COULD SEE -- YOU KNOW, A LOT OF >> NO, I THINK THE ONLY WAY YOU COULD SEE -- YOU KNOW, A LOT OF REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE BEEN COULD SEE -- YOU KNOW, A LOT OF REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE BEEN AGAINST THIS IDEA OF TRYING TO REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE BEEN AGAINST THIS IDEA OF TRYING TO DEFUND OBAMACARE.

AGAINST THIS IDEA OF TRYING TO DEFUND OBAMACARE.

THEY SAY IF OBAMACARE IS SUCH A DEFUND OBAMACARE.

THEY SAY IF OBAMACARE IS SUCH A DISASTER, IT WILL COLLAPSE UNDER THEY SAY IF OBAMACARE IS SUCH A DISASTER, IT WILL COLLAPSE UNDER ITS OWN WEIGHT.

DISASTER, IT WILL COLLAPSE UNDER ITS OWN WEIGHT.

THE REPUBLICANS WHO ARE CACKLING ITS OWN WEIGHT.

THE REPUBLICANS WHO ARE CACKLING GLEEFULLY AT THE PROBLEMS WITH THE REPUBLICANS WHO ARE CACKLING GLEEFULLY AT THE PROBLEMS WITH THIS INITIAL ROLLOUT, GLEEFULLY AT THE PROBLEMS WITH THIS INITIAL ROLLOUT, PARTICULARLY ON THE FEDERAL THIS INITIAL ROLLOUT, PARTICULARLY ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL HAS BEEN SOMETHING OF A PARTICULARLY ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL HAS BEEN SOMETHING OF A DISASTER.

LEVEL HAS BEEN SOMETHING OF A DISASTER.

WE DON'T KNOW OF A SINGLE PERSON DISASTER.

WE DON'T KNOW OF A SINGLE PERSON TO WHAT IS SUCCESSFULLY GOTTEN WE DON'T KNOW OF A SINGLE PERSON TO WHAT IS SUCCESSFULLY GOTTEN INSURANCE THERE.

TO WHAT IS SUCCESSFULLY GOTTEN INSURANCE THERE.

>> ONE THING I THINK IS INSURANCE THERE.

>> ONE THING I THINK IS IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE POPULARITY OR LACK OF IT OR WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE POPULARITY OR LACK OF IT OR OBAMACARE IN THE UNITED STATES, POPULARITY OR LACK OF IT OR OBAMACARE IN THE UNITED STATES, YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT WHICH OBAMACARE IN THE UNITED STATES, YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT WHICH AMERICA.

YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT WHICH AMERICA.

I LOOKED AT NBC-"WALL STREET AMERICA.

I LOOKED AT NBC-"WALL STREET JOURNAL" POLLS ON THIS BY RACE.

OBAMACARE, BY 2-1, WHITES SAY JOURNAL" POLLS ON THIS BY RACE.

OBAMACARE, BY 2-1, WHITES SAY IT'S A BAD IDEA.

BY 3-1, AFRICAN-AMERICANS SAY IT'S A BAD IDEA.

BY 3-1, AFRICAN-AMERICANS SAY IT'S A GOOD IDEA.

HISPANICS LIKE IT AS WELL SO YOU IT'S A GOOD IDEA.

HISPANICS LIKE IT AS WELL SO YOU HAVE A BIG DIVIDE BETWEEN PEOPLE HISPANICS LIKE IT AS WELL SO YOU HAVE A BIG DIVIDE BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY MAY BE PAYING FOR HAVE A BIG DIVIDE BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY MAY BE PAYING FOR SOMETHING THAT IS NOT GOING TO WHO THINK THEY MAY BE PAYING FOR SOMETHING THAT IS NOT GOING TO BENEFIT THEM AND PEOPLE WHO SOMETHING THAT IS NOT GOING TO BENEFIT THEM AND PEOPLE WHO THINK IT IS GOING TO BENEFIT BENEFIT THEM AND PEOPLE WHO THINK IT IS GOING TO BENEFIT THEM AND IT'S NO ACCIDENT THAT THINK IT IS GOING TO BENEFIT THEM AND IT'S NO ACCIDENT THAT THE PARTY WHOSE BASE IS THEM AND IT'S NO ACCIDENT THAT THE PARTY WHOSE BASE IS DOMINATED BY WHITE VOTERS IS THE PARTY WHOSE BASE IS DOMINATED BY WHITE VOTERS IS THE ONE WAGING THIS FIGHT.

DOMINATED BY WHITE VOTERS IS THE ONE WAGING THIS FIGHT.

GWEN: "THE NEW YORK TIMES" HAD THE ONE WAGING THIS FIGHT.

GWEN: "THE NEW YORK TIMES" HAD AN INTERESTING PIECE THAT SAID GWEN: "THE NEW YORK TIMES" HAD AN INTERESTING PIECE THAT SAID THE PEOPLE WHO CHOSE TO NOT AN INTERESTING PIECE THAT SAID THE PEOPLE WHO CHOSE TO NOT BENEFIT, THE PEOPLE OF COLOR, THE PEOPLE WHO CHOSE TO NOT BENEFIT, THE PEOPLE OF COLOR, POOR PEOPLE, LIVE IN STATES BENEFIT, THE PEOPLE OF COLOR, POOR PEOPLE, LIVE IN STATES WHERE GOVERNORS HAVE NOT STEPPED POOR PEOPLE, LIVE IN STATES WHERE GOVERNORS HAVE NOT STEPPED UP AND TAKE THE FEDERAL MONEY TO WHERE GOVERNORS HAVE NOT STEPPED UP AND TAKE THE FEDERAL MONEY TO COVER PEOPLE WHO WOULD NOT UP AND TAKE THE FEDERAL MONEY TO COVER PEOPLE WHO WOULD NOT OTHERWISE QUALIFY.

COVER PEOPLE WHO WOULD NOT OTHERWISE QUALIFY.

SO IS IT POSSIBLE THAT IN OTHERWISE QUALIFY.

SO IS IT POSSIBLE THAT IN FIGHTING FOR THIS LAW, PEOPLE OF SO IS IT POSSIBLE THAT IN FIGHTING FOR THIS LAW, PEOPLE OF THE STATES ARE FINDING A BETTER FIGHTING FOR THIS LAW, PEOPLE OF THE STATES ARE FINDING A BETTER WAY TO UNDERMINE THE LAW THAN THE STATES ARE FINDING A BETTER WAY TO UNDERMINE THE LAW THAN PEOPLE IN THE FEDERAL WAY TO UNDERMINE THE LAW THAN PEOPLE IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?

PEOPLE IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?

>> PERHAPS, AND WE'LL HAVE TO GOVERNMENT?

>> PERHAPS, AND WE'LL HAVE TO SEE.

THAT DOES AFFECT A SPECIFIC SEE.

THAT DOES AFFECT A SPECIFIC PORTION OF THE POPULATION WHO THAT DOES AFFECT A SPECIFIC PORTION OF THE POPULATION WHO WOULD OTHERWISE BY ELIGIBLE AND PORTION OF THE POPULATION WHO WOULD OTHERWISE BY ELIGIBLE AND THERE'S POTENTIAL POLITICAL WOULD OTHERWISE BY ELIGIBLE AND THERE'S POTENTIAL POLITICAL BACKLASH BUT A LOT OF THESE -- THERE'S POTENTIAL POLITICAL BACKLASH BUT A LOT OF THESE -- THESE ARE VERY RED STATES AND BACKLASH BUT A LOT OF THESE -- THESE ARE VERY RED STATES AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT GOING TO THESE ARE VERY RED STATES AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO BENEFIT HAVE VERY THE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO BENEFIT HAVE VERY LITTLE POLITICAL POWER IN THOSE BE ABLE TO BENEFIT HAVE VERY LITTLE POLITICAL POWER IN THOSE STATES TO INFLICT ANY DAMAGE ON LITTLE POLITICAL POWER IN THOSE STATES TO INFLICT ANY DAMAGE ON THOSE GOVERNORS.

STATES TO INFLICT ANY DAMAGE ON THOSE GOVERNORS.

BACK TO ONE OF THE POINTS THAT THOSE GOVERNORS.

BACK TO ONE OF THE POINTS THAT JOHN ALLUDED, TO WHEN YOU LOOK BACK TO ONE OF THE POINTS THAT JOHN ALLUDED, TO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POLLING, BREAK IT DOWN BY JOHN ALLUDED, TO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POLLING, BREAK IT DOWN BY RACE OR BY PARTY, IT'S NOT JUST AT THE POLLING, BREAK IT DOWN BY RACE OR BY PARTY, IT'S NOT JUST ON THE PRESIDENT'S HEALTH CARE RACE OR BY PARTY, IT'S NOT JUST ON THE PRESIDENT'S HEALTH CARE PLAN.

ON THE PRESIDENT'S HEALTH CARE PLAN.

IT'S ON ALMOST EVERYTHING IN PLAN.

IT'S ON ALMOST EVERYTHING IN FRONT OF US AT THIS POINT.

THE DIVISIONS IN THIS COUNTRY FRONT OF US AT THIS POINT.

THE DIVISIONS IN THIS COUNTRY ARE SHAPED BY RED AND BLUE THE DIVISIONS IN THIS COUNTRY ARE SHAPED BY RED AND BLUE PERCEPTIONS, BY PARTY ARE SHAPED BY RED AND BLUE PERCEPTIONS, BY PARTY IDENTIFICATION AND I THINK THAT PERCEPTIONS, BY PARTY IDENTIFICATION AND I THINK THAT ALSO IS AFFECTING PUBLIC OPINION IDENTIFICATION AND I THINK THAT ALSO IS AFFECTING PUBLIC OPINION ON THIS SHUTDOWN FIGHT.

ALSO IS AFFECTING PUBLIC OPINION ON THIS SHUTDOWN FIGHT.

CLEARLY, IT'S NOT POPULAR AND ON THIS SHUTDOWN FIGHT.

CLEARLY, IT'S NOT POPULAR AND MOST PEOPLE SAY COMPROMISE BUT CLEARLY, IT'S NOT POPULAR AND MOST PEOPLE SAY COMPROMISE BUT WHEN IT'S OVER THE QUESTION IS MOST PEOPLE SAY COMPROMISE BUT WHEN IT'S OVER THE QUESTION IS WILL THIS IN SOME WAY REARRANGE WHEN IT'S OVER THE QUESTION IS WILL THIS IN SOME WAY REARRANGE THE CURRENT STATE OF POLITICS OR WILL THIS IN SOME WAY REARRANGE THE CURRENT STATE OF POLITICS OR WILL PEOPLE QUICKLY SNAP BACK TO THE CURRENT STATE OF POLITICS OR WILL PEOPLE QUICKLY SNAP BACK TO THE RED AND BLUE?

WILL PEOPLE QUICKLY SNAP BACK TO THE RED AND BLUE?

GWEN: I SAW A FUNNY THING ON THE RED AND BLUE?

GWEN: I SAW A FUNNY THING ON JIMMY KIMMEL IN WHICH HE ASKED GWEN: I SAW A FUNNY THING ON JIMMY KIMMEL IN WHICH HE ASKED PEOPLE ON THE STREETS WHICH DO JIMMY KIMMEL IN WHICH HE ASKED PEOPLE ON THE STREETS WHICH DO YOU PREFER?

PEOPLE ON THE STREETS WHICH DO YOU PREFER?

AFFORDABLE CARE OR OBAMA CARE?

YOU PREFER?

AFFORDABLE CARE OR OBAMA CARE?

NOBODY KNEW IT WAS THE SAME AFFORDABLE CARE OR OBAMA CARE?

NOBODY KNEW IT WAS THE SAME THING.

>> ALMOST EVERY REPUBLICAN THING.

>> ALMOST EVERY REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR WHO'S UP FOR >> ALMOST EVERY REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR WHO'S UP FOR RE-ELECTION IN A STATE OBAMA WON GOVERNOR WHO'S UP FOR RE-ELECTION IN A STATE OBAMA WON IN 2012 HAS TAKEN THIS MEDICAID RE-ELECTION IN A STATE OBAMA WON IN 2012 HAS TAKEN THIS MEDICAID EXPANSION BECAUSE IT IS GOOD IN 2012 HAS TAKEN THIS MEDICAID EXPANSION BECAUSE IT IS GOOD POLITICS IF THEY WANT TO REACH EXPANSION BECAUSE IT IS GOOD POLITICS IF THEY WANT TO REACH INDEPENDENT VOTERS -- IF POLITICS IF THEY WANT TO REACH INDEPENDENT VOTERS -- IF REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO WIN INDEPENDENT VOTERS -- IF REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO WIN ANOTHER PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO WIN ANOTHER PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND MOVE TO THE CENTER AND ANOTHER PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND MOVE TO THE CENTER AND ATTRACT THOSE VOTERS THAT ARE AND MOVE TO THE CENTER AND ATTRACT THOSE VOTERS THAT ARE NOT THE REPUBLICAN BASE THAT ARE ATTRACT THOSE VOTERS THAT ARE NOT THE REPUBLICAN BASE THAT ARE NOT ELDERLY WHITE PEOPLE, NOT THE REPUBLICAN BASE THAT ARE NOT ELDERLY WHITE PEOPLE, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE A NOT ELDERLY WHITE PEOPLE, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE A LITTLE GROUND AND NOT JUST BE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE A LITTLE GROUND AND NOT JUST BE THE PARTY OF THESE DEEP RED LITTLE GROUND AND NOT JUST BE THE PARTY OF THESE DEEP RED SOUTHERN STATES WHERE THEY CAN THE PARTY OF THESE DEEP RED SOUTHERN STATES WHERE THEY CAN AFFORD TO TAKE A STAND LIKE RICK SOUTHERN STATES WHERE THEY CAN AFFORD TO TAKE A STAND LIKE RICK PERRY HAS, SAYING I'M NOT GOING AFFORD TO TAKE A STAND LIKE RICK PERRY HAS, SAYING I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS FEDERAL MONEY.

PERRY HAS, SAYING I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS FEDERAL MONEY.

>> IN FACT, BOBBY JINDAL SAID TO TAKE THIS FEDERAL MONEY.

>> IN FACT, BOBBY JINDAL SAID THIS WEEK DO KNOT DEFINE US -- >> IN FACT, BOBBY JINDAL SAID THIS WEEK DO KNOT DEFINE US -- THERE ARE 30, 40 CONSERVATIVES THIS WEEK DO KNOT DEFINE US -- THERE ARE 30, 40 CONSERVATIVES DRIVING THE BUS IN THE HOUSE.

THERE ARE 30, 40 CONSERVATIVES DRIVING THE BUS IN THE HOUSE.

THERE ARE ALSO 30 REPUBLICAN DRIVING THE BUS IN THE HOUSE.

THERE ARE ALSO 30 REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS.

JINDAL IS SAYING DON'T TWINE US GOVERNORS.

JINDAL IS SAYING DON'T TWINE US BY THE REPUBLICANS IN JINDAL IS SAYING DON'T TWINE US BY THE REPUBLICANS IN WASHINGTON, DEFINE US BY THE BY THE REPUBLICANS IN WASHINGTON, DEFINE US BY THE REPUBLICANS IN THE STATES WASHINGTON, DEFINE US BY THE REPUBLICANS IN THE STATES GETTING STUFF DONE.

REPUBLICANS IN THE STATES GETTING STUFF DONE.

IT WAS AMAZING THE ARGUMENT HE GETTING STUFF DONE.

IT WAS AMAZING THE ARGUMENT HE WAS MAKING FOR THE PARTY.

DON'T TALK ABOUT THE ONES HERE WAS MAKING FOR THE PARTY.

DON'T TALK ABOUT THE ONES HERE IN WASHINGTON.

GWEN: A LOT OF REPUBLICANS IN IN WASHINGTON.

GWEN: A LOT OF REPUBLICANS IN WASHINGTON ARE SAYING DON'T LINK GWEN: A LOT OF REPUBLICANS IN WASHINGTON ARE SAYING DON'T LINK ME TO REPUBLICANS IN WASHINGTON.

WASHINGTON ARE SAYING DON'T LINK ME TO REPUBLICANS IN WASHINGTON.

>> BUT THE ONES TAKING A STAND ME TO REPUBLICANS IN WASHINGTON.

>> BUT THE ONES TAKING A STAND IN WASHINGTON ARE SAYING WE ARE >> BUT THE ONES TAKING A STAND IN WASHINGTON ARE SAYING WE ARE WITH -- THE TRUE CONSERVATIVES.

IN WASHINGTON ARE SAYING WE ARE WITH -- THE TRUE CONSERVATIVES.

BOBBY GINNEDAL IS SAYING NO, IT WITH -- THE TRUE CONSERVATIVES.

BOBBY GINNEDAL IS SAYING NO, IT ISN'T.

GWEN: THE NEXT BIG FIGHT, THE ISN'T.

GWEN: THE NEXT BIG FIGHT, THE DEBT LIMIT.

THESE THINGS HAVE BEEN WRAPPED DEBT LIMIT.

THESE THINGS HAVE BEEN WRAPPED UP TOGETHER BUT THIS, IT SEEMS THESE THINGS HAVE BEEN WRAPPED UP TOGETHER BUT THIS, IT SEEMS TO ME TO BE THE FIGHT THAT THE UP TOGETHER BUT THIS, IT SEEMS TO ME TO BE THE FIGHT THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS MOST WORRIED TO ME TO BE THE FIGHT THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS MOST WORRIED ABOUT.

ADMINISTRATION IS MOST WORRIED ABOUT.

>> THIS IS THE FIGHT THAT'S MOST ABOUT.

>> THIS IS THE FIGHT THAT'S MOST CONSEQUENTIAL.

THIS IS THE FIGHT THAT COULD CONSEQUENTIAL.

THIS IS THE FIGHT THAT COULD PLUNGE THE COUNTRY INTO THIS IS THE FIGHT THAT COULD PLUNGE THE COUNTRY INTO RECESSION PLUNGE THE COUNTRY INTO RECESSION WITHIN TWO WEEKS.

RECESSION WITHIN TWO WEEKS.

GWEN: AND THAT'S GENERALLY WITHIN TWO WEEKS.

GWEN: AND THAT'S GENERALLY ACCEPTED.

TO BE FAIR, THIS IS SOMETHING ACCEPTED.

TO BE FAIR, THIS IS SOMETHING JOHN BOEHNER SAYS HE DOES NOT TO BE FAIR, THIS IS SOMETHING JOHN BOEHNER SAYS HE DOES NOT WANT.

JOHN BOEHNER SAYS HE DOES NOT WANT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WANT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THAT'S THE VICE GRIP BOEHNER IS >> ABSOLUTELY.

THAT'S THE VICE GRIP BOEHNER IS IN.

HE SAID HE RECOGNIZES HE CANNOT IN.

HE SAID HE RECOGNIZES HE CANNOT -- WE CANNOT DEFAULT, THAT THE HE SAID HE RECOGNIZES HE CANNOT -- WE CANNOT DEFAULT, THAT THE DEBT LIMIT NEEDS GO UP BUT HE -- WE CANNOT DEFAULT, THAT THE DEBT LIMIT NEEDS GO UP BUT HE SAID ENEED SOMETHING WITH THAT DEBT LIMIT NEEDS GO UP BUT HE SAID ENEED SOMETHING WITH THAT AND BY SHIFTING WHAT HE WANTS IN SAID ENEED SOMETHING WITH THAT AND BY SHIFTING WHAT HE WANTS IN RETURN FOR THAT, HE HAS PUT AND BY SHIFTING WHAT HE WANTS IN RETURN FOR THAT, HE HAS PUT HIMSELF IN THIS BOX OR THE HOUSE RETURN FOR THAT, HE HAS PUT HIMSELF IN THIS BOX OR THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS HAVE PUT THEMSELVES HIMSELF IN THIS BOX OR THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS HAVE PUT THEMSELVES IN THIS BOX.

REPUBLICANS HAVE PUT THEMSELVES IN THIS BOX.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE THE IN THIS BOX.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT, LOOKING AT THE IT'S VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT, LOOKING AT THE REPUBLICANS GRABBING THIS OR PRESIDENT, LOOKING AT THE REPUBLICANS GRABBING THIS OR THAT TO TRY TO ISSUE AS AEMAN DD REPUBLICANS GRABBING THIS OR THAT TO TRY TO ISSUE AS AEMAN DD IS SAYING NO, I'M DRAWING THE THAT TO TRY TO ISSUE AS AEMAN DD IS SAYING NO, I'M DRAWING THE LINE.

IS SAYING NO, I'M DRAWING THE LINE.

FROM THE BEGINNING, VERY FIRM LINE.

FROM THE BEGINNING, VERY FIRM LINE FROM THE ADMINISTRATION.

GWEN: HE ACTUALLY SAID THAT TO LINE FROM THE ADMINISTRATION.

GWEN: HE ACTUALLY SAID THAT TO YOU THIS WEEK AND I WANT TO PLAY GWEN: HE ACTUALLY SAID THAT TO YOU THIS WEEK AND I WANT TO PLAY A LITTLE BIT OF THE INTERVIEW HE YOU THIS WEEK AND I WANT TO PLAY A LITTLE BIT OF THE INTERVIEW HE DID WITH YOU EARLIER.

A LITTLE BIT OF THE INTERVIEW HE DID WITH YOU EARLIER.

>> IF WE GET IN THE HABIT WHERE DID WITH YOU EARLIER.

>> IF WE GET IN THE HABIT WHERE A FEW FOLKS -- AN EXTREMIST WING >> IF WE GET IN THE HABIT WHERE A FEW FOLKS -- AN EXTREMIST WING OF ONE PARTY, WHETHER DEMOCRAT A FEW FOLKS -- AN EXTREMIST WING OF ONE PARTY, WHETHER DEMOCRAT OREN, ARE ALLOWED TO EXTORT OF ONE PARTY, WHETHER DEMOCRAT OREN, ARE ALLOWED TO EXTORT CONCESSIONS BASED ON A THREAT OF OREN, ARE ALLOWED TO EXTORT CONCESSIONS BASED ON A THREAT OF UNDERMINING THE FULL FAITH AND CONCESSIONS BASED ON A THREAT OF UNDERMINING THE FULL FAITH AND CREDIT OF THE UNITED STATES, UNDERMINING THE FULL FAITH AND CREDIT OF THE UNITED STATES, THEN ANY PRESIDENT WHO COMES CREDIT OF THE UNITED STATES, THEN ANY PRESIDENT WHO COMES AFTER ME, NOT JUST ME, WILL FIND THEN ANY PRESIDENT WHO COMES AFTER ME, NOT JUST ME, WILL FIND THEMSELVES UNABLE TO GOVERN AFTER ME, NOT JUST ME, WILL FIND THEMSELVES UNABLE TO GOVERN EFFECTIVELY AND THAT IS NOT THEMSELVES UNABLE TO GOVERN EFFECTIVELY AND THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I'M GOING TO EFFECTIVELY AND THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I'M GOING TO ALLOW TO HAPPEN.

SOMETHING THAT I'M GOING TO ALLOW TO HAPPEN.

GWEN: SO THAT'S THE BIGGER ALLOW TO HAPPEN.

GWEN: SO THAT'S THE BIGGER PICTURE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, GWEN: SO THAT'S THE BIGGER PICTURE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, DOWN THE ROAD.

PICTURE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, DOWN THE ROAD.

NOT JUST THIS FIGHT ABOUT THE DOWN THE ROAD.

NOT JUST THIS FIGHT ABOUT THE HEALTH CARE ACT OR THE BUDGET OR NOT JUST THIS FIGHT ABOUT THE HEALTH CARE ACT OR THE BUDGET OR EVEN ABOUT THE DEBT LIMIT.

HEALTH CARE ACT OR THE BUDGET OR EVEN ABOUT THE DEBT LIMIT.

>> YES, ALTHOUGH I THINK THE EVEN ABOUT THE DEBT LIMIT.

>> YES, ALTHOUGH I THINK THE DEBT LIMIT ISSUE FOR PRESIDENT >> YES, ALTHOUGH I THINK THE DEBT LIMIT ISSUE FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA IS SO IMPORTANT.

DEBT LIMIT ISSUE FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA IS SO IMPORTANT.

IN TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO WERE OBAMA IS SO IMPORTANT.

IN TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE AT THE TIME TWO YEARS AGO IN TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE AT THE TIME TWO YEARS AGO WHEN THEY HAD THE BIG FIGHT AND THERE AT THE TIME TWO YEARS AGO WHEN THEY HAD THE BIG FIGHT AND EVERYTHING COLLAPSED -- IN WHEN THEY HAD THE BIG FIGHT AND EVERYTHING COLLAPSED -- IN TALKING TO THE PRESIDENT AFTER EVERYTHING COLLAPSED -- IN TALKING TO THE PRESIDENT AFTER THAT HE INDICATED THAT THAT WAS TALKING TO THE PRESIDENT AFTER THAT HE INDICATED THAT THAT WAS PERHAPS THE SECOND WORST MOMENT THAT HE INDICATED THAT THAT WAS PERHAPS THE SECOND WORST MOMENT OF HIS PRESIDENCY, TOPPED ONLY PERHAPS THE SECOND WORST MOMENT OF HIS PRESIDENCY, TOPPED ONLY BY HIS FIRST TRIP TO DOVER TO OF HIS PRESIDENCY, TOPPED ONLY BY HIS FIRST TRIP TO DOVER TO SEE SOME BODIES COMING BACK.

BY HIS FIRST TRIP TO DOVER TO SEE SOME BODIES COMING BACK.

THAT THAT DEBT CEILING FIGHT IS SEE SOME BODIES COMING BACK.

THAT THAT DEBT CEILING FIGHT IS SO SERED IN HIM THAT HE WANTS THAT THAT DEBT CEILING FIGHT IS SO SERED IN HIM THAT HE WANTS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANOTHER ONE.

SO SERED IN HIM THAT HE WANTS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANOTHER ONE.

>> THAT'S WHAT THE WHITE HOUSE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANOTHER ONE.

>> THAT'S WHAT THE WHITE HOUSE SAYS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BLINK >> THAT'S WHAT THE WHITE HOUSE SAYS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BLINK ON THIS.

SAYS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BLINK ON THIS.

IT CREATES A KIND OF ANEMIA IN ON THIS.

IT CREATES A KIND OF ANEMIA IN THE ECONOMY, IF THE ECONOMY CAN IT CREATES A KIND OF ANEMIA IN THE ECONOMY, IF THE ECONOMY CAN NEVER GET ON ITS FEET BEFORE THE ECONOMY, IF THE ECONOMY CAN NEVER GET ON ITS FEET BEFORE ANOTHER CRY SAYS.

NEVER GET ON ITS FEET BEFORE ANOTHER CRY SAYS.

THE COMBHOUSE KEEPS TALKING ANOTHER CRY SAYS.

THE COMBHOUSE KEEPS TALKING ABOUT THE CALAMITY THAT WILL THE COMBHOUSE KEEPS TALKING ABOUT THE CALAMITY THAT WILL ENSUE.

ABOUT THE CALAMITY THAT WILL ENSUE.

DAN WROTE ABOUT IT THE IN -- IN ENSUE.

DAN WROTE ABOUT IT THE IN -- IN HIS BOOK.

PEOPLE SAID WE BLAME GEORGE W. HIS BOOK.

PEOPLE SAID WE BLAME GEORGE W. BUSH FOR THE ECONOMY.

WE BLAME THE REPUBLICANS FOR NOT BUSH FOR THE ECONOMY.

WE BLAME THE REPUBLICANS FOR NOT WORKING WITH YOU BUT WE WANT THE WE BLAME THE REPUBLICANS FOR NOT WORKING WITH YOU BUT WE WANT THE PRESIDENT TO GET IT.

WORKING WITH YOU BUT WE WANT THE PRESIDENT TO GET IT.

WE WANT THE SUPERHERO TO GET THE PRESIDENT TO GET IT.

WE WANT THE SUPERHERO TO GET THE VILLAIN SO THE POLITICAL WEIGHT WE WANT THE SUPERHERO TO GET THE VILLAIN SO THE POLITICAL WEIGHT ON THE PRESIDENT, EVEN IF PEOPLE VILLAIN SO THE POLITICAL WEIGHT ON THE PRESIDENT, EVEN IF PEOPLE SEE HE'S IN THE RIGHT THEY STILL ON THE PRESIDENT, EVEN IF PEOPLE SEE HE'S IN THE RIGHT THEY STILL MAY WANT HIM TO DO SOMETHING.

SEE HE'S IN THE RIGHT THEY STILL MAY WANT HIM TO DO SOMETHING.

>> PRESIDENT OBAMA IS NOT ONE MAY WANT HIM TO DO SOMETHING.

>> PRESIDENT OBAMA IS NOT ONE YOU KNOW -- RUNNING AGAIN.

THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS HAVE TO YOU KNOW -- RUNNING AGAIN.

THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS HAVE TO DEFEND THEIR MAJORITY.

AND THEY SAID IF THERE'S ONE DEFEND THEIR MAJORITY.

AND THEY SAID IF THERE'S ONE THING THAT COULD THREATEN OUR AND THEY SAID IF THERE'S ONE THING THAT COULD THREATEN OUR MAJORITY -- PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THING THAT COULD THREATEN OUR MAJORITY -- PEOPLE TALK ABOUT JER MANNED -- GERRYMANDERING MAJORITY -- PEOPLE TALK ABOUT JER MANNED -- GERRYMANDERING DISTRICTS.

JER MANNED -- GERRYMANDERING DISTRICTS.

BUT IF YOU HAVE A SITUATION DISTRICTS.

BUT IF YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE YOU ARE SHUTTING DOWN THE BUT IF YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE YOU ARE SHUTTING DOWN THE GOVERNMENT AND POTENTIALLY WHERE YOU ARE SHUTTING DOWN THE GOVERNMENT AND POTENTIALLY CAUSING A BREACH OF T DEBHET GOVERNMENT AND POTENTIALLY CAUSING A BREACH OF T DEBHET LIMIT AND CAUSING A RECESSION, CAUSING A BREACH OF T DEBHET LIMIT AND CAUSING A RECESSION, THAT'S WHERE YOU RUN THE RISK OF LIMIT AND CAUSING A RECESSION, THAT'S WHERE YOU RUN THE RISK OF ACTUALLY EXPANDING THE PLAYING THAT'S WHERE YOU RUN THE RISK OF ACTUALLY EXPANDING THE PLAYING FIELD, PUTTING MANY MORE SEATS ACTUALLY EXPANDING THE PLAYING FIELD, PUTTING MANY MORE SEATS IN JEOPARDY AND LOSING A FIELD, PUTTING MANY MORE SEATS IN JEOPARDY AND LOSING A MAJORITY.

IN JEOPARDY AND LOSING A MAJORITY.

GWEN: THIS IS A BIG DIFFERENCE MAJORITY.

GWEN: THIS IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NOW AND 1995 AND 1996 GWEN: THIS IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NOW AND 1995 AND 1996 WHEN WE HAD THAT LONG, LONG BETWEEN NOW AND 1995 AND 1996 WHEN WE HAD THAT LONG, LONG SHUTDOWN AND THAT'S BALD.

WHEN WE HAD THAT LONG, LONG SHUTDOWN AND THAT'S BALD.

WE WERE ON THE LIP OF A MIDTERM SHUTDOWN AND THAT'S BALD.

WE WERE ON THE LIP OF A MIDTERM ELECTION YEAR.

ACTUALLY OF A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION YEAR.

ACTUALLY OF A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION YEAR AND THAT AFFECTED ACTUALLY OF A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION YEAR AND THAT AFFECTED THE WAY PEOPLE RESPONDED.

ELECTION YEAR AND THAT AFFECTED THE WAY PEOPLE RESPONDED.

EVEN THE PRESIDENT NEEDED TO THE WAY PEOPLE RESPONDED.

EVEN THE PRESIDENT NEEDED TO LOOK STRONG AS THIS PRESIDENT EVEN THE PRESIDENT NEEDED TO LOOK STRONG AS THIS PRESIDENT DOES AS WELL.

LOOK STRONG AS THIS PRESIDENT DOES AS WELL.

>> THE STAKES ARE DIFFERENT DOES AS WELL.

>> THE STAKES ARE DIFFERENT POLITICALLY.

YOU DO HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO WAS POLITICALLY.

YOU DO HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO WAS SLIPPING IN TERMS OF PUBLIC YOU DO HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO WAS SLIPPING IN TERMS OF PUBLIC OPINION.

SLIPPING IN TERMS OF PUBLIC OPINION.

WE HAD THE WHOLE SYRIA CRISIS OPINION.

WE HAD THE WHOLE SYRIA CRISIS HAPPEN JUST BEFORE THIS.

THE LATEST POLLING ACTUALLY HAPPEN JUST BEFORE THIS.

THE LATEST POLLING ACTUALLY SHOWS PRESIDENT OBAMA IMPROVING THE LATEST POLLING ACTUALLY SHOWS PRESIDENT OBAMA IMPROVING IN THE POLLS.

SHOWS PRESIDENT OBAMA IMPROVING IN THE POLLS.

AGAIN, HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE IN THE POLLS.

AGAIN, HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE RE-ELECTED SO THAT DOESN'T AGAIN, HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE RE-ELECTED SO THAT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER AND THERE IS A RE-ELECTED SO THAT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER AND THERE IS A FEELING THAT HE CAN -- TO USE A REALLY MATTER AND THERE IS A FEELING THAT HE CAN -- TO USE A BAD BOXING ANALOGY, OF HOLDING FEELING THAT HE CAN -- TO USE A BAD BOXING ANALOGY, OF HOLDING THEM AGAINST THE ROPES.

BAD BOXING ANALOGY, OF HOLDING THEM AGAINST THE ROPES.

LET'S NOT FORGET ALSO THE OTHER THEM AGAINST THE ROPES.

LET'S NOT FORGET ALSO THE OTHER REASON THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA IS LET'S NOT FORGET ALSO THE OTHER REASON THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA IS NOT GETTING INTO THAT ROOM TO REASON THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA IS NOT GETTING INTO THAT ROOM TO NEGOTIATE AND THAT'S BECAUSE NOT GETTING INTO THAT ROOM TO NEGOTIATE AND THAT'S BECAUSE HARRY REID WON'T LET HIM AND NEGOTIATE AND THAT'S BECAUSE HARRY REID WON'T LET HIM AND REID FEELS AT LEAST AS STRONGLY HARRY REID WON'T LET HIM AND REID FEELS AT LEAST AS STRONGLY IF NOT MORE THAN THE PRESIDENT REID FEELS AT LEAST AS STRONGLY IF NOT MORE THAN THE PRESIDENT THAT THESE NEGOTIATIONS, THE IF NOT MORE THAN THE PRESIDENT THAT THESE NEGOTIATIONS, THE GROUND THAVEN -- THEY'VE GIVEN THAT THESE NEGOTIATIONS, THE GROUND THAVEN -- THEY'VE GIVEN IN THE PAST.

GROUND THAVEN -- THEY'VE GIVEN IN THE PAST.

THE REPUBLICANS ARE NOT INSANE IN THE PAST.

THE REPUBLICANS ARE NOT INSANE TO THINK THE PRESIDENT MIGHT THE REPUBLICANS ARE NOT INSANE TO THINK THE PRESIDENT MIGHT CAVE BECAUSE HE'S DONE THAT IN TO THINK THE PRESIDENT MIGHT CAVE BECAUSE HE'S DONE THAT IN THE PAST.

CAVE BECAUSE HE'S DONE THAT IN THE PAST.

THE PRESIDENT IS A CONCILIATOR THE PAST.

THE PRESIDENT IS A CONCILIATOR AT HEART BUT HE'S GOT VERY THE PRESIDENT IS A CONCILIATOR AT HEART BUT HE'S GOT VERY STRONG BACKUP FROM THE SENATE, AT HEART BUT HE'S GOT VERY STRONG BACKUP FROM THE SENATE, WHICH IS TAKING SOME TOUGH VOTES STRONG BACKUP FROM THE SENATE, WHICH IS TAKING SOME TOUGH VOTES POLITICALLY.

WHICH IS TAKING SOME TOUGH VOTES POLITICALLY.

>> YOU CAN ALWAYS TELL IN A POLITICALLY.

>> YOU CAN ALWAYS TELL IN A POLITICAL FIGHT WHICH ONE IS >> YOU CAN ALWAYS TELL IN A POLITICAL FIGHT WHICH ONE IS WINNING AND LOSING BY WHICH ONE POLITICAL FIGHT WHICH ONE IS WINNING AND LOSING BY WHICH ONE IS UNITED AND WHICH ONE IS WINNING AND LOSING BY WHICH ONE IS UNITED AND WHICH ONE IS DWIGHTED -- DIVIDED.

IS UNITED AND WHICH ONE IS DWIGHTED -- DIVIDED.

>> ONE OTHER FACT ABOUT 19 5 DWIGHTED -- DIVIDED.

>> ONE OTHER FACT ABOUT 19 5 VERSUS TODAY THAT'S DIFFERENT.

THEY DID AN ANALYSIS -- A VERSUS TODAY THAT'S DIFFERENT.

THEY DID AN ANALYSIS -- A PRESIDENT PUTS PRESSURE ON THEY DID AN ANALYSIS -- A PRESIDENT PUTS PRESSURE ON MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN WHOSE PRESIDENT PUTS PRESSURE ON MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN WHOSE DISTRICT HE HAD A VICT I WILL.

MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN WHOSE DISTRICT HE HAD A VICT I WILL.

BILL CLINTON IN 1995, THERE WERE DISTRICT HE HAD A VICT I WILL.

BILL CLINTON IN 1995, THERE WERE 79 REPUBLICANS WHERE BILL BILL CLINTON IN 1995, THERE WERE 79 REPUBLICANS WHERE BILL CLINTON HAD WON.

79 REPUBLICANS WHERE BILL CLINTON HAD WON.

RIGHT NOW ONLY 17 REPUBLICANS CLINTON HAD WON.

RIGHT NOW ONLY 17 REPUBLICANS WHERE BARACK OBAMA HAS WON IN RIGHT NOW ONLY 17 REPUBLICANS WHERE BARACK OBAMA HAS WON IN THEIR DISTRICTS.

WHERE BARACK OBAMA HAS WON IN THEIR DISTRICTS.

SO THERE ARE FEWER REPUBLICANS THEIR DISTRICTS.

SO THERE ARE FEWER REPUBLICANS WHO FEEL THE HEAT.

FOR A LOT OF THEM, THEIR WHO FEEL THE HEAT.

FOR A LOT OF THEM, THEIR CONSTITUENTS ARE OK WITH THIS FOR A LOT OF THEM, THEIR CONSTITUENTS ARE OK WITH THIS FIGHT.

CONSTITUENTS ARE OK WITH THIS FIGHT.

>> THAT'S A LONG-TERM TREND IN FIGHT.

>> THAT'S A LONG-TERM TREND IN POLITICS.

10 YEARS BEFORE THAT, IN 19 4 POLITICS.

10 YEARS BEFORE THAT, IN 19 4 WHEN REAGAN WAS RE-ELECTED IN A 10 YEARS BEFORE THAT, IN 19 4 WHEN REAGAN WAS RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE, THERE WERE 150 WHEN REAGAN WAS RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE, THERE WERE 150 DEMOCRATIC MEMBERS OF CONGRESS LANDSLIDE, THERE WERE 150 DEMOCRATIC MEMBERS OF CONGRESS FROM SEATS THAT REAGAN HAD WON.

DEMOCRATIC MEMBERS OF CONGRESS FROM SEATS THAT REAGAN HAD WON.

IT'S GONE DOWN AND DOWN.

FROM SEATS THAT REAGAN HAD WON.

IT'S GONE DOWN AND DOWN.

GWEN: TALK ABOUT THE PARTIES IT'S GONE DOWN AND DOWN.

GWEN: TALK ABOUT THE PARTIES RESORTING, I WONDER IF THIS GWEN: TALK ABOUT THE PARTIES RESORTING, I WONDER IF THIS FEELS LIKE A PIVOT POINT FOR RESORTING, I WONDER IF THIS FEELS LIKE A PIVOT POINT FOR YOU.

FEELS LIKE A PIVOT POINT FOR YOU.

SO MANY THINGS WE USED TO COUNT YOU.

SO MANY THINGS WE USED TO COUNT ON ARE FALLING APART.

THE LAST-MINUTE NEGOTIATIONS.

ON ARE FALLING APART.

THE LAST-MINUTE NEGOTIATIONS.

CONFERENCE COMMITTEES.

THE LAST-MINUTE NEGOTIATIONS.

CONFERENCE COMMITTEES.

THEY'VE GONE BY THE WAYSIDE.

CONFERENCE COMMITTEES.

THEY'VE GONE BY THE WAYSIDE.

IS THIS A PERMANENT SHIFT?

THEY'VE GONE BY THE WAYSIDE.

IS THIS A PERMANENT SHIFT?

>> NOTHING IS PERMANENT IN IS THIS A PERMANENT SHIFT?

>> NOTHING IS PERMANENT IN POLITICS.

IT IS A NEW NORMAL AND A NORMAL POLITICS.

IT IS A NEW NORMAL AND A NORMAL IN WHICH CONFRONTATION IS COMMON IT IS A NEW NORMAL AND A NORMAL IN WHICH CONFRONTATION IS COMMON PLACE AND COMPROMISE IS MUCH IN WHICH CONFRONTATION IS COMMON PLACE AND COMPROMISE IS MUCH RARER THAN IT USED TO BE.

PLACE AND COMPROMISE IS MUCH RARER THAN IT USED TO BE.

I THINK IT IS A REFLECTION OF RARER THAN IT USED TO BE.

I THINK IT IS A REFLECTION OF THESE DEEPER DIVISIONS IN THE I THINK IT IS A REFLECTION OF THESE DEEPER DIVISIONS IN THE COUNTRY AND INDIVIDUAL MENACE OF THESE DEEPER DIVISIONS IN THE COUNTRY AND INDIVIDUAL MENACE OF CONGRESS AND TO SOME EXTENT COUNTRY AND INDIVIDUAL MENACE OF CONGRESS AND TO SOME EXTENT SENATORS WHO ARE NOW SORT OF CONGRESS AND TO SOME EXTENT SENATORS WHO ARE NOW SORT OF MORE THAN THEY USED TO BE RED SENATORS WHO ARE NOW SORT OF MORE THAN THEY USED TO BE RED STATE AND BLUE, HEARING FROM A MORE THAN THEY USED TO BE RED STATE AND BLUE, HEARING FROM A PARTICULAR PART OF THE COUNTRY STATE AND BLUE, HEARING FROM A PARTICULAR PART OF THE COUNTRY AND NOT THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE PARTICULAR PART OF THE COUNTRY AND NOT THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE AND AS LONG AS WE'RE IN THAT AND NOT THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE AND AS LONG AS WE'RE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT, I THINK IT'S HARD AND AS LONG AS WE'RE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT, I THINK IT'S HARD TO BREAK OUT OF THIS.

ENVIRONMENT, I THINK IT'S HARD TO BREAK OUT OF THIS.

>> THE SORTING IS AN IDEOLOGICAL TO BREAK OUT OF THIS.

>> THE SORTING IS AN IDEOLOGICAL SORTING.

THE TIMES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SORTING.

THE TIMES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHERE PEOPLE USED TO SPLIT THE TIMES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHERE PEOPLE USED TO SPLIT TICKETS, A LOT OF TIMES YOU HAD WHERE PEOPLE USED TO SPLIT TICKETS, A LOT OF TIMES YOU HAD CONSERVATIVES WHO COULD VOTE FOR TICKETS, A LOT OF TIMES YOU HAD CONSERVATIVES WHO COULD VOTE FOR A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN AND CONSERVATIVES WHO COULD VOTE FOR A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN AND CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRAT ON THE SAM A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN AND CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRAT ON THE SAM BLAPT.

CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRAT ON THE SAM BLAPT.

-- SAME BALLOT.

BLAPT.

-- SAME BALLOT.

INCLEEGSINGLY YOU HAVE ALL THE -- SAME BALLOT.

INCLEEGSINGLY YOU HAVE ALL THE CONSERVATIVES IN ONE PARTY AND INCLEEGSINGLY YOU HAVE ALL THE CONSERVATIVES IN ONE PARTY AND ALL LIBERALS IN ANOTHER PARTY CONSERVATIVES IN ONE PARTY AND ALL LIBERALS IN ANOTHER PARTY AND OF COURSE IT'S HARDER TO GET ALL LIBERALS IN ANOTHER PARTY AND OF COURSE IT'S HARDER TO GET COALITIONS.

AND OF COURSE IT'S HARDER TO GET COALITIONS.

GWEN: THANK YOU ALL SOVEP SO COALITIONS.

GWEN: THANK YOU ALL SOVEP SO MUCH.

WE HAVE TO GO FOR NOW BUT THE MUCH.

WE HAVE TO GO FOR NOW BUT THE COVERAGE WILL CONTINUE ON LINE.

THE WASHINGTON WEBCAST EXTRA COVERAGE WILL CONTINUE ON LINE.

THE WASHINGTON WEBCAST EXTRA STREAMS LIVE AT :30 P.M. EASTERN THE WASHINGTON WEBCAST EXTRA STREAMS LIVE AT :30 P.M. EASTERN AND YOU CAN FIND IT ALL WEEK STREAMS LIVE AT :30 P.M. EASTERN AND YOU CAN FIND IT ALL WEEK LONG AT OUR WEBSITE.

AND YOU CAN FIND IT ALL WEEK LONG AT OUR WEBSITE.

YOU'LL FIND LENGTHS TO THE REST LONG AT OUR WEBSITE.

YOU'LL FIND LENGTHS TO THE REST OF THE STORIES.

DEEP -- KEEP UP WITH OF THE STORIES.

DEEP -- KEEP UP WITH DEVELOPMENTS NOW SEVEN DAYAS DEEP -- KEEP UP WITH DEVELOPMENTS NOW SEVEN DAYAS WEEK ON THE PBS NEWS HOUR AND DEVELOPMENTS NOW SEVEN DAYAS WEEK ON THE PBS NEWS HOUR AND WE'LL SEE YOU HERE NEXT WEEK ON WEEK ON THE PBS NEWS HOUR AND WE'LL SEE YOU HERE NEXT WEEK ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."

WE'LL SEE YOU HERE NEXT WEEK ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."

OOD NIGHT.

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