History

- SO OFTEN, PEOPLE SAY, "I GET YOUR MESSAGE,"

BUT I DON'T THINK THAT MESSAGE

IS SO SEPARATED FROM WHAT THE OBJECT IS.

- PEOPLE ARE POSSESSIVE ABOUT HISTORY.

THEY ALWAYS WANT SOMETHING FROM IT,

WANTING TO MANIPULATE THE HISTORY ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

- PERFORMANCE IS A TOOL HOW I CAN EXPRESS MYSELF.

AND I THINK, IN A LIFE OF AN ARTIST,

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO FIND THE RIGHT TOOL.

[ horn honking ]

- I'M AN ARTIST BECAUSE THE NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR THE ARTS

USED TO GIVE GRANTS TO INDIVIDUAL ARTISTS.

SO I GOT A GRANT FOR DRAWING IN 1989.

THAT GRANT ALLOWED ME TO MAKE A DECISION,

WHICH WAS, I COULD KEEP WORKING THE JOB THAT I WAS WORKING

40, 50 HOURS A WEEK,

OR I COULD USE THAT GRANT MONEY TO TAKE SOME TIME OFF

AND REALLY DIVE INTO THIS THING CALLED

BEING AN ARTIST.

AND SO THAT GRANT WAS PIVOTAL, ACTUALLY.

- INVITES, PLEASE.

- I'M SO SORRY ABOUT THIS PARTY.

LIKE...

- IT'S FINE.

- OKAY.

- IT'S ALL GOOD.

- [ laughs ]

- IT'S ALL GOOD.

- EVERYBODY WANTS TO COME TO THIS PARTY ALL OF A SUDDEN.

- WE'RE GONNA, LIKE...

- ONE OF THE THINGS

ABOUT HAVING A RETROSPECTIVE AT THE WHITNEY

IS THAT I FEEL LIKE I AM COMING TO A PLACE

THAT I KNOW VERY WELL,

BECAUSE THE WHITNEY HAS THE LARGEST COLLECTION

OF MY WORK IN THE COUNTRY.

I STARTED SHOWING AT THE WHITNEY IN 1991, IN THE BIENNIAL.

I KNOW ALL THE GUARDS, AND I KNOW ALL THE CURATORS.

AND SO IT'S A VERY EASY PLACE TO NAVIGATE.

TODAY I WAS, LIKE, AWFUL.

- THAT'S ALL RIGHT,

BUT YOU HAVEN'T CHANGED YOUR CELL NUMBER?

- NO, NO, IT'S THE SAME.

- ALL RIGHT, ALL RIGHT.

- ANY OPENING OF AN EXHIBITION IS A BIT LIKE

THIS IS YOUR LIFE.

SO THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT I HAVEN'T SEEN IN 30 YEARS.

- I'M SO PROUD OF YOU, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY.

LOTS OF FAMILY AND LOTS OF ARTIST FRIENDS.

- I MEAN, THE LINE IS OUTSIDE...

- WE ONLY JUST GLANCE FROM ROOM TO ROOM.

- I KNOW, WE HAVE TO HAVE A PICTURE, A PICTURE TIME.

- PICTURE TIME.

[ laughs ]

I WON'T SAY IT WAS FUN TO BE THERE,

BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THAT LEVEL OF SCRUTINY AND ATTENTION.

BUT I THINK IT WAS INTERESTING

TO BE AROUND SO MANY PEOPLE WHO WISHED ME WELL.

THE SURPRISE OF A RETROSPECTIVE IS THAT THERE'S MORE CONSISTENCY

THAN I HAD THOUGHT IN HOW THE WORK APPEARS.

THERE ARE SEVERAL THREADS THAT TIE TOGETHER THE SHOW.

ONE IS AN INTEREST THROUGHOUT THE WORK

IN ISSUES OF LEGIBILITY AND ILLEGIBILITY.

I'VE USED LANGUAGE IN VARIOUS KINDS OF WAYS

THROUGHOUT MY CAREER.

ANOTHER IS CONCERN WITH AMERICAN HISTORY.

ANOTHER THING IS THE RETURN TO COLOR.

AND IT IS AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF MY CAREER,

THE EARLIEST WORKS IN THE SHOW,

BUT IT RETURNS TOWARDS THE END AS WELL.

I DIDN'T REALLY DO DRAWINGS WHEN I WAS A KID.

I MADE COPIES OF THINGS.

SO I WOULDI HAD A GOOD BUSINESS WHEN I WAS A KID

DOING DRAWINGS OF CARTOON CHARACTERS FROM THE NEWSPAPER.

AND I WOULD CUT THEM OUT AND SELL THEM

TO MY FRIENDS IN SCHOOL.

WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL,

I KNEW THAT I WANTED TO BE AN ARTIST.

AND MY MOTHER HAD SENT ME TO AFTER-SCHOOL CLASSES

AT THE METROPOLITAN MUSEUM.

AND I THINK MY MOTHER SENT ME TO ART CLASSES

BECAUSE SHE THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT A WELL-ROUNDED CITIZEN

SHOULD HAVE EDUCATION IN,

SORT OF ARTS IN A GENERAL SENSE.

BUT THERE WAS NO ONE IN MY FAMILY

WHO HAD BEEN AN ARTIST

AND SO THERE WASN'T REALLY ANY ROLE MODEL FOR IT.

I THINK THE IDEA THAT I ACTUALLY

WAS GOING TO BE AN ARTIST HORRIFIED HER,

BECAUSE ARTISTS DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY.

AND WHAT DID SHE SAY?

THE ONLY ARTISTS I'VE EVER HEARD OF ARE DEAD.

AND SHE MEANT PICASSO.

I THINK THE ARTIST THAT I WAS INTERESTED IN

WHEN I FIRST STARTED WORKING

WERE DE KOONING, FRANZ KLINE, JACKSON POLLOCK.

THAT WHOLE GENERATION OF ABSTRACT EXPRESSIONISTS.

AT A CERTAIN MOMENT, I DECIDED THAT BEING

AN ABSTRACT EXPRESSIONIST WASN'T QUITE GOING TO DO IT,

AND THAT PRODUCED A KIND OF CRISIS IN THE STUDIO.

AND WHAT I DECIDED TO DO WAS TO INCORPORATE THE THINGS

THAT I WAS THINKING ABOUT, THE THINGS I WAS READING,

INTO THE WORK DIRECTLY.

AND THE MODELS FOR THAT

WERE PEOPLE LIKE JASPER JOHNS OR RAUSCHENBERG.

PEOPLE WHO USED TEXT IN THEIR WORK.

WHEN I FIRST STARTED DOING THAT,

I DECIDED THAT I WAS JUST GOING TO USE MY HANDWRITING.

AND THEN AFTER A WHILE, I DECIDED I'M NOT INTERESTED

IN TELLING MY OWN STORIES.

I'M INTERESTED IN WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY.

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH SELF-EXPRESSION.

IT JUST HAS ITS LIMITS.

[ chuckles ]

AND I THINK THAT THE THINGS THAT I WAS INTERESTED IN

WERE ALREADY IN THE WORLD, AND SO THEY DIDN'T NEED ME

TO CREATE THEM AGAIN IN THAT WAY.

THEY JUST NEEDED FOR ME TO HAVE THEM

BE BROUGHT INTO THE WORK, YOU KNOW.

THE WORK BECAME MORE ABOUT QUOTATION,

USING TEXTS FROM VARIOUS LITERARY SOURCES.

I READ LOTS OF THINGS.

I READ WHATEVER I FEEL LIKE READING.

AND IF SOMETHING STAYS IN MY HEAD LONG ENOUGH,

IT MIGHT TURN INTO ART.

IT WAS THE ONE THING THAT WHEN I WAS A CHILD

MY MOTHER WOULD ALLOW ME: ANY BOOK I WANTED,

NO MATTER THE COST.

EXPENSIVE TOYS OR CLOTHES, NO.

BUT ANY BOOK.

SO THAT KIND OF ATTENTION TO BOOKS

WASLOVE OF BOOKS CAME EARLY.

IDEAS TAKE A LONG TIME TO BE BORN, YOU KNOW.

THEY TAKE A LONG TIME TO GESTATE.

THEY TAKE A LONG TIME TO COME INTO THE WORLD.

AND THAT PROCESS IS HARD.

GLOVES ON.

I GUESS WHAT I'M COMMITTED TO

ISI DON'T KNOW NOT LOVE OF PAINTING

BUT LOVE OF THE IDEA OF MAKING IDEAS.

FIRST TEXT PAINTINGS I MADE WERE SINGLE SENTENCES

BY AN AUTHOR NAMED ZORA NEALE HURSTON,

AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMAN,

A WRITER OF THE HARLEM RENAISSANCE.

THE WAY I WAS MAKING THE PAINTINGS

WAS TO USE PLASTIC LETTER STENCILS AND OIL CRAYONS.

IF YOU'RE USING LETTER STENCILS,

YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE SOMETHING WITH A SHARP BOUNDARY,

BUT OIL CRAYONS WANT TO BREAK OUT OF THOSE BOUNDARIES.

THEY'RE MESSY, THEY DON'T KEEP THEIR SHAPE.

AND FOR ABOUT SIX MONTHS, I THINK, I TRIED TO FIGURE OUT

HOW TO MAKE THESE OIL CRAYONS MAKE NICE, NEAT LETTERS.

AND THEN I REALIZED THAT THE FACT

THAT THEY DIDN'T MAKE NICE, NEAT LETTERS

WAS ACTUALLY MUCH MORE INTERESTING.

SMUDGING THEM AND TRANSFORMING THESE LETTERS INTO ABSTRACTION

WAS WHAT THE PAINTINGS WERE ABOUT,

BUT IT TOOK SIX MONTHS TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

[ chuckles ] YOU KNOW?

AT FIRST IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR ME THAT I MADE THESE,

YOU KNOW, FROM START TO FINISH.

NOW THAT'S NOT SO IMPORTANT TO ME.

IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAT I COME IN AT A CERTAIN POINT

WHERE THERE IS A BASE FOR ME TO WORK OFF OF.

I FIND IT INTERESTING TO WORK ON SOMETHING

THAT'S SORT OF STARTED OUT OF MY HANDS BASICALLY.

THE KINDS OF LINE BREAKS AND KINDS OF SPACING

THAT THEY WOULD MAKE IN PRESENTING A TEXT

IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I WOULD DO.

I OFTEN FIND THAT WHEN I'M WORKING,

IT'S THE MISTAKES

OR IT'S SOMEONE ELSE'S SUGGESTION OR INTERVENTION

THAT PUSHES THE WORK FORWARD, YOU KNOW?

IT'S THE THINGS THAT I DIDN'T THINK I WAS GOING TO DO

THAT END UP BEING THE THING.

AND SOMETIMES THAT MEANS YOU HAVE TO LOSE

A LITTLE BIT OF CONTROL OVER THINGS.

YOU HAVE TO LET THEM GO TO SOMEONE ELSE,

LET SOMEONE ELSE WORK ON THEM, COLLABORATE WITH PEOPLE.

SO OFTEN PEOPLE SAY, "I GET YOUR MESSAGE,"

BUT I DON'T THINK THAT MESSAGE, IF I HAVE A MESSAGE,

IS SO SEPARATED FROM WHAT THE OBJECT IS, HOW IT'S PAINTED.

INDEED, THAT'S WHERE THE WORK STARTS FROM,

A KIND OF MAKING RATHER THAN A MESSAGE

THAT IS THEN LAYERED INTO AN OBJECT.

THERE'S A SERIES OF PAINTINGS

CALLED THE COLORING BOOK PAINTINGS,

WHICH WERE BASED ON KIDS' DRAWINGS.

OFTEN, WHEN I LOOK FOR SOURCE MATERIAL,

I DON'T KNOW WHERE I'M GOING TO FIND IT,

AND SOMETIMES I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT I'M EXACTLY LOOKING FOR.

WHEN I FOUND THESE, IT WAS QUITE A SURPRISE.

I DIDN'T KNOW THEY EXISTED.

SO IT'S THE MOMENT WHEN EDUCATORS

ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, HOW DO YOU TEACH BLACK HISTORY?

SO THEY CREATE THESE COLORING BOOKS THAT HAVE IMAGES

THAT ANY COLORING BOOK WOULD HAVE IN THEM.

BOYS PLAYING BASKETBALL

JUXTAPOSED WITH IMAGES OF PEOPLE LIKE HARRIET TUBMAN.

I THOUGHT THIS WAS GOING TO BE AN EASY PROJECT FOR ME.

I REALLY HAD TO KIND OF INHABIT

THE WAY A KID WOULD HOLD A CRAYON OR PAINT A PAINTING.

YOU KNOW, PICASSO SAID HE HAD TO SPEND HIS WHOLE LIFETIME

TO LEARN TO DRAW LIKE A CHILD,

AND I KNOW WHAT HE MEANS NOW; IT'S HARD.

[ chuckles ]

BUT IT WAS VERY INSTRUCTIVE FOR ME.

THAT DISCONNECT BETWEEN

WHAT THE KIDS IMAGINE THOSE IMAGES TO BE

AND WHAT I AS AN ADULT BRING TO AN IMAGE OF, SAY, MALCOLM X

WAS WHAT THE WORK WAS ABOUT.

I FIRST STARTED DOING NEONS

BECAUSE THERE'S A NEON SHOP IN MY BUILDING.

AND ONE DAY I WAS WALKING BY THE NEON SHOP

AND THE OWNER, MATT, SAID, "DO YOU WANT A TOUR?"

AND I SAID, "SURE."

HE MAKES WORK FOR CORPORATIONS,

BUT HE ALSO MAKES WORK FOR ARTISTS TOO.

AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS AN INTERESTING PAIRING.

I'D BEEN TO THAT POINT MAKING PAINTINGS

USING BLACK TEXT ON WHITE BACKGROUNDS.

SO REALLY JUST AS A JOKE

I SAID, "YOU KNOW, IS THERE SUCH A THING AS BLACK NEON?"

AND THE OWNER OF THE SHOP, MATT,

SAID, "THAT'S AGAINST THE LAWS OF PHYSICS,

BECAUSE BLACK IS THE ABSENCE OF LIGHT."

BUT THEN WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT IT A BIT,

AND I REALIZED THAT THERE WAS A WAY TO DO IT,

BECAUSE ONE CAN TAKE A NEON TUBE

AND SIMPLY PAINT IT BLACK ON THE FRONT.

SO IT WOULD READ AS A BLACK LETTER OR A LINE,

BUT WOULD ALSO READ AS NEON,

BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE LIGHT

COMING FROM BEHIND THAT BLACK LETTER.

AND ONCE I REALIZED THAT WAS POSSIBLE,

IT BECAME THE CONNECTION BETWEEN MY PAINTING WORK

AND THESE NEONS USING TEXT.

LOTS OF ARTISTS HAVE USED NEON,

SO THERE WERE PRECEDENTS FOR WHAT I WAS DOING.

WAIT, WHAT IS THAT?

OH, SO THIS IS SORT OF TELLING YOU

WHAT THE COLOR'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE WHEN IT'S LIT INSIDE.

WOW.

HOW LONG DO YOU HAVE TO PUMP THE GAS INTO THE LETTERS?

- 10, 15 MINUTES, 20 MINUTES.

THIS IS A NEON GAS.

THIS IS ARGON WITH MERCURY.

DID YOU SEE THE MERCURY?

- YEAH.

- AND THEN THIS IS HELIUM.

- ALL RIGHT.

AND THEN THIS IS ARGON GAS.

ARGON WITH NO MERCURY.

- RIGHT.

- GLENN, YOU'VE BEEN WORKING WITH NEON,

AND YOU NEVER GOT THE EXPLANATION FOR IT?

- NO, IT JUST KIND OF ARRIVED DONE.

[ laughs ]

IT JUST ARRIVED.

FIRST NEON WAS BASED ON A LITTLE FRAGMENT

OF A GERTRUDE STEIN NOVEL CALLED THREE LIVES,

AND IT SAYS, "NEGRO SUNSHINE."

I WAS INTERESTED IN GERTRUDE STEIN

BECAUSE SHE IS INTERESTED IN AMERICA, AMERICAN HISTORY,

TRYING TO DESCRIBE WHAT AMERICA MEANS,

WHICH I THINK IS ONE OF MY PROJECTS TOO.

FOR ME, USING NEON WAS REALLY ABOUT

FINDING THE CONNECTION

BETWEEN THE WORK I WAS ALREADY DOING

AND THE NEON.

AND UNTIL WE HAD THAT DISCUSSION ABOUT BLACK LIGHT,

THAT HADN'T HAPPENED.

THERE ARE PAINTINGS THAT EMIT LIGHT.

THE COAL DUST PAINTINGS DO...

BECAUSE THEY HAVE THIS SHINY BLACK GRAVEL-LIKE SUBSTANCE

CALLED COAL DUST ON TOP OF THEM.

AND WHEN YOU SHINE A LIGHT ON THAT,

IT SPARKLES AND GLISTENS.

AND I STARTED USING COAL DUST IN RELATIONSHIP TO PAINTINGS

BECAUSE I WAS THINKING ABOUT JAMES BALDWIN

AND THE ESSAY THAT I WAS USING, STRANGER IN THE VILLAGE.

HE'S AN AMERICAN AUTHOR.

HE'S GONE TO EUROPE TO WORK ON A NOVEL,

AND HE'S IN THIS LITTLE SWISS VILLAGE.

IT WAS WRITTEN IN THE '50s.

AND THE ESSAY IS ABOUT HIS RELATIONSHIP TO THE PEOPLE

WHO HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP TO BLACK AMERICANS.

AND HE'S TRYING TO THINK THROUGH

WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A STRANGER SOMEWHERE.

THE KIND OF FASCINATION AND FEAR THAT STRANGERS PRODUCE.

I LIKE THE IDEA OF USING COAL DUST

BECAUSE IT'S A WASTE PRODUCT.

IT'S LEFTOVER STUFF FROM COAL PROCESSING.

THE WAY IT'S USED IN THE PAINTINGS WAS INTERESTING TO ME

AND SEEMED TO BE A KIND OF PARALLEL

TO WHAT BALDWIN WAS TALKING ABOUT.

IT GETS SPRAYED WITH THIS ACRYLIC GLUE,

'CAUSE OTHERWISE, ALL THAT COAL DUST

IS GONNA FALL OFF THE DRAWING.

GLUE AND SPRAYERS DON'T REALLY GO TOGETHER.

SO WHEN IT DRIES, IT DRIES CLEAR.

BASICALLY FANCY ELMER'S GLUE AND WATER.

NOTHING VERY MYSTERIOUS.

ET VOILA.

PAINT IS A VERY SENSUAL MATERIAL.

IT'S LOVELY TO WORK WITH AND LOVELY TO LOOK AT.

IT'S ALSO INEFFICIENT.

WE'RE USED TO SEEING TEXT PRINTED.

WE'RE NOT USED TO SEEING TEXT MADE OUT OF PAINT.

AND THERE'S A KIND OF SLOWNESS AND INEFFICIENCY

ABOUT RENDERING TEXT IN PAINT THAT'S INTERESTING TO ME.

IT SLOWS YOUR READING DOWN.

YOU KNOW, SLOWS THE VIEWER DOWN IN FRONT OF THE PAINTINGS.

AND I THINK WE'RE IN A WORLD THAT'S VERY FAST,

SO THINGS THAT SLOW YOU FOR A MINUTE,

GIVE YOU PAUSE, I THINK, ARE GOOD.

IF YOU USE JOKES BY A COMEDIAN LIKE RICHARD PRYOR,

THEY NEED TO BE JOKES IN COLOR.

SO THE PAINTINGS HAVE TO HAVE COLOR IN THEM.

THEY ALLOWED ME TO GO BACK TO MY ABSTRACT EXPRESSIONIST DAYS

WHEN I MADE PAINTINGS THAT WERE VERY COLORFUL.

- [ laughing ]

[ voices overlapping ]

WELL, THE STRUGGLE IS ALWAYS

THE IDEA YOU HAVE IN YOUR HEAD

ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY IN YOUR WORK

VERSUS THE MEANS YOU HAVE TO SAY IT WITH

OR YOUR ABILITIES OR YOUR SKILLS

OR THE TECHNICAL LIMITATIONS

OF THE MEDIUM YOU'RE WORKING IN.

SO IT'STHERE'S ALWAYS SORT OF, LIKE,

THE IDEAL PAINTING IN YOUR HEAD, AND YOU NEVER QUITE GET TO THAT.

AND SO YOU MAKE SOMETHING, AND IT'S ALMOST THERE.

IT'S NOT QUITE RIGHT.

YOU MAKE SOMETHING ELSE.

IT'S ALMOST THERE.

IT'S NOT QUITE RIGHT.

YOU MAKE SOMETHING ELSE.

IT'S ALMOST THERE.

IT'S NOT QUITE RIGHT.

BUT THAT PROCESS DOESN'T END, YOU KNOW?

EVENTUALLY JUST THAT IS THE PROCESS.

YOU KNOW, YOU JUST KEEP GOING.

- IT WAS A HUGE CHANGE TO FILM AT EMPAC

WITH ANY SORT OF TECHNOLOGICAL ASSIST YOU COULD WANT.

THE FILM THAT WE DID BEFORE, YOU MAKE ME ILIAD,

WE FILMED PARTLY IN MY PARENTS' BASEMENT

AND PARTLY IN OUR APARTMENT.

WITH A WHITE UNDERSHIRT AND THIS SHIRT,

YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO TELL.

- FANCY PANTS.

- TOTALLY.

SO FOR THIS FILM, I INVITED MY SISTER ALICE

AND ALICE'S HUSBAND, MICAH,

AND THEN MY YOUNGEST SISTER, JULIET.

- BRAINY MCBRAINYTON, MAXIMILIEN ROBES

- MAX-MILLION.

- MAXIMILIEN ROBESPIERRE

PERFECTLY MEMORIZED JEAN-JACQUES ROUSSEAU.

CITIZENS BORED BY HIS HYPER-VERBOSITY,

SHOUTED IN UNISON, MERDE, SANS CHAPEAU!

- OKAY, YOU KNOW JEAN-JACQUES ROUSSEAU

WAS AN IMPORTANT MUSIC THEORIST?

- YES, I KNOW.

- I FEEL LIKE I SHOULD SING THIS ONE.

- AND YOU KNOW WHAT HE DID?

OH, YES, YES, PLEASE.

PLEASE SING IT.

JUST SING.

IMPROVISE RIGHT NOW.

- [ laughs ] SORRY.

- WE WERE ALWAYS VERY CREATIVE GROWING UP.

AND A LOT OF WHAT WE DID GROWING UP

I KIND OF SEE IN HER ART NOW.

WE WOULD CREATE THESE ELABORATE PLAYS

THAT WE WOULD PUT ON THAT MARY, AS THE OLDEST, OF COURSE,

WAS ALWAYS THE INSTIGATOR.

- SO TRY SINGING IN YOUR AWESOME LITTLE TUNE

WITH, LIKE, PERFECTLY MEMORIZED JEAN-JACQUES ROUSSEAU

AND CITIZENS BORED, SO, LIKE, THERE'S A CHANGE IN TONE.

- OKAY.

♪ BRAINY MCBRAINYTON MAXIMILIEN ROBESPIERRE ♪

♪ PERFECTLY MEMORIZED JEAN-JACQUES ROUSSEAU ♪

♪ CITIZENS BORED BY HIS HYPER-VERBOSITY ♪

♪ SHOUTED IN UNISON ♪

all: MERDE, SANS CHAPEAU!

- ALICE, SHOW US YOUR THROAT-SLASHING GESTURE.

- [ grunts ]

- YEAH.

- IF I START UP HIGHER AND CIRCLE BELOW.

- THERE, THAT'S TOTALLY CLEAR.

- SHOULD I BARE MY TEETH?

ARRGH.

- DO WHATEVER YOU WANT.

- NO, I'M SAYING, "MERDE, SANS CHAPEAU!"

- THAT'S GOOD.

THAT LOOKS REALLY GOOD.

- I THINK ALICE SHOULD GO LIKE THIS.

- LIKE WHAT?

- CAN'T SEE THE ACTUAL, LIKE, THROAT-CUTTING.

IT'S JUST THE HAND, LIKE THIS.

- YEAH.

- YOU THINK I SHOULD USE MY LEFT HAND INSTEAD?

- ONE MORE?

- YEAH.

- BRAINY MCBRAINYTON, MAXIMILIEN ROBESPIERRE

PERFECTLY MEMORIZED JEAN-JACQUES ROUSSEAU.

CITIZENS BORED BY HIS HYPER-VERBOSITY

SHOUTED IN UNISON...

all: MERDE!

SANS CHAPEAU!

- SHE HAS ALWAYS HAD AN INTERESTING PART TO PLAY

IN THE ENTIRE FAMILY'S PERSPECTIVES ON LIFE.

WHEN I WAS IN JUNIOR HIGH, SHE WAS BRINGING HOME

FEMINIST LITERATURE FOR ME TO READ FROM COLLEGE

AND JUST GIVING ME NEW THINGS TO THINK ABOUT.

- AND I KIND OF WANT THE SNOW SHAKERS TO BE UP HIGH.

- HIGH?

LIKE THIS?

- LIKE, STILL ON THE SCREEN, BUT HIGH.

ARE WE RECORDING?

- YEAH.

- JELLY TART, JELLY TART, GENERAL BONAPARTE'S

SENTIMENTALITY WORRIED ALL FRANCE.

HE CRIED, SACCHARINE TEARS ON THE BANKS OF THE VOLGA

WHILE WATERLOO WATERWORKS SPOTTED HIS PANTS.

- THIS IS GONNA BE A TRICKY TIME FOR YOU GUYS,

CAUSE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO PUT IT TOGETHER

AND éL, "100 VOLTAIRES."

WE'LL GET YOU TO SCOOT...

- AND ACTUALLY, I SUGGEST THAT WE NEED TO START

BRINGING OUR HANDS TOGETHER TO DO THE JACOB'S LADDER BEFORE,

SO THAT WHEN THEY WHEN IT COMES TOGETHER,

IT'S, BING, "100 VOLTAIRES."

I'M AN ENGINEER,

SO I HAVE LITTLE TO NO BACKGROUND IN ART.

AND THEREFORE, WHEN I SEE MARY'S ARTWORK,

IT IS ALWAYS SO DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I NORMALLY ENCOUNTER

THAT IT MAKES ME THINK A LOT HARDER ABOUT IT.

I THINK WE'LL BE OKAY.

- SO WE'RE NOT USING AUDIO FOR THIS.

SO JUST...

READY TO GO?

- YEAH, I THINKI THINK I AM.

- MARY, COULD SINCE WE'RE NOT DOING AUDIO,

CAN YOU BE LIKE, "AND STOP"?

- YEAH.

- OKAY, I'LL JUST

- JUST HISS OR SOMETHING SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO MOVE YOUR MOUTH.

- OKAY, YEAH.

OKAY.

all: TWINKLE TOE, TWINKLE TOE, DENIS P. DIDEROT

DREAMED OF A GOVERNMENT LED BY HIS HEIRS.

NIGHTMARES SO GHASTLY, SO ANTI-ENLIGHTENMENT,

GAVE HIM THE SHOCK OF 100 VOLTAIRES.

- MARY CAME ACROSS THIS MAP.

IT'S THIS OLD MAP OF PARIS,

PRE-HAUSSMANN RENOVATION OF PARIS.

THE DESIGN OF THIS MAP IS AN INSPIRATION

FOR MAKING SOME OF THE BUILDINGS.

WHAT WE THOUGHT WE WOULD DO IS TRY TO RE-CREATE

SOME OF THE ARCHITECTURE THAT YOU SEE IN THIS MAP,

THIS SORT OF CARTOON-LIKE ETCHING,

HATCH-MARKING ARCHITECTURE,

AS THREE-DIMENSIONAL MODELS

SO THAT WE WOULD HAVE THESE OBJECTS

AS POSSIBLE VIRTUAL SET ELEMENTS.

- IT'S SO WILD THAT THEY HAD ELECTRICITY TO DO THIS.

- THAT'S THE ACTUAL HAUSSMANN TIME?

- MM-HMM.

MM-HMM.

HE WOULDN'T PUT ELECTRICITY ON THE STREETS.

HE WANTED GAS ON THE STREETS,

'CAUSE HE THOUGHT IT WAS MORE AESTHETIC.

BUT, HERE, DO YOU WANT TO SEE IT?

AND HERE YOU CAN SEE THE TEXTURE OF THE STREET.

IT'S LIKE A COBBLESTONE.

- WELL, YEAH, WE HAVE THAT...

- I THINK THAT ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I'M MOTIVATED

TO DO RESEARCH AND TO DO ALL THE READING

IS THAT IT'S VERY MUCH A SET OF VALUES

THAT LEARNING IS GOOD.

BOOKS ARE GOOD.

THINGS IN BOOKS WILL HELP YOU.

WHO KNOWS WHERE IT CAME FROM?

PROBABLY IN LARGE PART FROM MY PARENTS.

I GREW UP IN SOUTH CAROLINA.

I'M THE ELDEST OF FOUR CHILDREN.

MY NEXT SISTER IS ALICE AND THEN MY BROTHER, DAN,

AND THEN MY YOUNGEST SISTER, JULIET.

MY PARENTS MET DOING THEIR MASTER'S IN HISTORY.

MY MOM AND DAD ARE NOTORIOUS

FOR NEVER JUST DRIVING BY A HISTORICAL MARKER.

YOU ALWAYS PULL OVER TO SEE WHAT IT IS.

IN THE SOUTH, AT LEAST IN TERMS OF THE CIVIL WAR,

THERE'S THIS HISTORICAL BURDEN.

YOU'RE AWARE PRETTY EARLY ON

THAT THERE ISN'T JUST ONE VERSION THAT'S ACCEPTED,

THAT PEOPLE ARE KIND OF TUGGING AT THIS HISTORICAL RECORD,

YOU KNOW, WANTING TO MANIPULATE THE HISTORY

ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

OKAY, THAT'S GOOD.

THIS SHOT IS REALLY QUICK.

IT'S JUST A COUPLE SECONDS.

SO RUN OUT, PUT THE CHAIRS DOWN,

I'LL PUT THE BOARD ON,

HOP ON IT, START DOING THIS AND KIND OF KICKING MY HEELS,

AND THEN I WANT BOTH OF YOU

TO KIND OF, LIKE, LEAN OVER THE CHAIR.

THE DIRECTOR ROLE IS NOT SOMETHING

THAT COMES SUPER NATURALLY.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS

I REALLY VALUE GETTING TO WORK WITH MY FAMILY MEMBERS.

IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR ME TO ASK FOR WHAT I WANT.

OKAY, GOOD.

NOWNOW WHEN YOU DO THAT, LIKE, JOSTLE EACH OTHER, LIKE...

- YEAH, LIKE, HERE, I WANT THE BETTER VIEW.

- [ laughs ] - I WANT THE BETTER VIEW.

- NO, NO, I WANT TO GET IT.

- OKAY.

- [ laughs ]

- EXCELLENT, WE GOT IT.

YEP.

- GET BACK AND LAY BACK DOWN SO I SHOULD SEE WHEN...

- THE ENTIRE CONCEPT COMES OUT OF THE RESEARCH

AND OUT OF THE READING.

SEE, 'CAUSE I DON'T HAVE A PILLOW,

IT'S GONNA MAKE YOUR LIFE HARDER.

AND IT'S MY CHOICE OF WHAT WE DO.

SO I THINK YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO BRING IT AROUND

TO THE SIDE.

AND THEN ONCE WE'RE KIND OF ON THE WAY,

MY HUSBAND, PAT, IS VERY ENTHUSIASTIC

TO JUST PICK UP WHATEVER IS HAPPENING AND RUN WITH IT.

- DO WE WANT TO BE STRAIGHT DOWN?

- UH, YEAH.

- IS THAT ABOUT RIGHT PLACE?

- ERIC WOULD IT BE CRAZY FOR ME

TO SHOOT FROM THAT GAP RIGHT THERE?

- NO, NOT AT ALL.

- I NEVER WOULD HAVE MADE THAT BIG LEAP FROM BEING A PAINTER

TO SOMETHING AS COMPLICATED AND AS TECHNICALLY INVOLVED

AS THIS WORK WITHOUT PAT.

- SECRETLY, SECRETLY QUEEN MARIE ANTOINETTE

STUDIED HER ALGEBRA ALL NIGHT IN BED.

SCHOLARS REMARKED AT THE MATHEMATICIAN.

HER BEAUTY'S RESOLVED TO MAKE KNOWLEDGE WIDESPREAD.

- THAT WAS IT, YEAH.

THAT WAS GREAT.

- OKAY.

- AWESOME.

OKAY.

- SECRETLY, SECRETLY QUEEN MARIE ANTOINETTE

STUDIED HER ALGEBRA ALL NIGHT IN BED.

SCHOLARS REMARKED AT THE MATHEMATICIAN.

HER BEAUTY'S RESOLVED TO MAKE KNOWLEDGE WIDESPREAD.

- AFTER WE SHOOT THIS, AND WE'LL SHOOT THAT,

AND THEN WE HAVE A BREAK.

THEN YOU GUYS ARE JUST GONNA HAVE TO HANG OUT,

MAYBE EAT ANOTHER PCE OF PIZZA WHILE I GET INTO SISYPHUS,

AND THEN WE'VE GOT A COUPLE MORE LARGER, WIDER SHOTS SO...

- WE HAVE THE BAGUETTES, RIGHT?

- OH, YES, AND THE BAGUETTES.

- I BAGUETTE YOU.

- YES, THE DANDY OUTFITS, YEAH.

SO WE'RE DOING GOOD, BUT WE GOT A LOT MORE TO GO, SO...

[ sighs ]

SO STAY DOWN.

- I LOVE TO PUT ON MAKEUP.

THAT'S ONE OF MY FAVORITE PARTS OF MAKING THE WORK

IS GETTING DRAW THE FACE ON.

MY MOTHER NEVER WORE MAKEUP,

AND I WAS ALWAYS OBSESSED WITH IT.

THE EYES BLOCK OUT EVERYTHING.

WHEN I LOOK OUT OF THE EYES,

I SEE VERY LITTLE, WHICH IS GREAT.

AND IT'SIT'S HELPED ME DO THE PERFORMANCE.

AND I DON'T THINK I COULD HAVE STARTED PERFORMING WITHOUT THEM.

ABOUT IN THE RIGHT SPOT?

- MM-HMM, LOOKS GREAT.

- OKAY.

OKAY.

- WHAT EXACTLY IS THE TITLE?

THE SYPH....

- OKAY, I ALWAYS... SIS...

- SISYPHUS, THAT'S RIGHT?

SISYPHUS.

- I'M GUESSING PARTIALLY

BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY RHYMES WITH SYPHILIS.

- SYPH... SYPH...

- THE SYPHILIS OF SISYPHUS?

- NO, IS THAT RIGHT?

[ chuckles ]

- THE TITLE OF THE NEW FILM IS THE SYPHILIS OF SISYPHUS.

MOST OF THE TEXT FROM THIS FILM

IS JUST KIND OF THE EXTENDED POLEMICAL MUSINGS OF THIS WOMAN,

THIS FEMALE CHARACTER, SISYPHUS.

SHE'S A PROSTITUTE.

AT THE BEGINNING, WE KIND OF SEE HER GETTING READY TO GO OUT,

AND SHE'S DOING HER TOILET AND PUTTING ON HER MAKEUP.

SO NOW, REMEMBER, WHEN SHE STARTS,

SHE'S, LIKE, NOT MAD.

- RIGHT.

- SHE'SSHE'S ALMOST SAD, BUT SHE'S BITTER.

SHE'S NOT, LIKE, SWEETLY SAD.

SHE'S NOT, LIKE, RESIGNED SAD.

SHE'S BITTER SAD.

POUTING SAD.

- FACE RIGHT.

- I CAN ACTUALLY SEE MY REFLECTION IN THE CAMERA,

IT'S KIND OF HELPFUL.

- YEAH.

[ indistinct speech ]

- THAT'S SO MAGRITTE.

I DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF THAT TILL JUST NOW.

- [ laughs ] IT IS.

- IT'S, LIKE, CRAZY KAT MEETS MAGRITTE.

NATURE SOLD ME A LIE.

AND I'VE KEPT THE DECEIT ON MY FACE

TO REMIND ME HER FALSEHOODS REPEAT LIKE THE SEASONS RENEW.

SAME ADVICE EVERY TIME BECAUSE NATURE CAN COUNSEL ME

NOTHING BUT CRIME.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT ENCOUNTERING PAINTINGS

IS LOOKING AT THEM OVER TIME

AND COMING BACK AND VIEWING IT AGAIN.

SO WHEN I MAKE VIDEO WORKS,

I LOVE THE IDEA OF PEOPLE COMING BACK TO THEM

AND SEEING THEM OVER AND OVER

AND ALWAYS GET SOMETHING NEW.

HER UTOPIAN SWINDLES PROFESS TO BE CURES,

BUT, IN FACT, GENERATIONS WHILE SMEARED WITH MANURE;

AS A YOUNG NAIVE MILKMAID IN APRON AND BRAIDS,

I, TOO, WAS REVOLTING ON TOP OF THE BARRICADES.

PRAISING THE RUSTIC, I FELL TO GOURMET,

AND MY RADICAL URGES WERE LOST DUE TO NEGLIGEE.

SHAMED BY THIS LAPSE INTO LUXURIES ERROR,

I HID MY DEFECTIONS TILL THIS HAPPY MIRROR

REVEALED A NEW CAUSE FOR WHICH SISYPHUS SHOULDERS

THE BURDENS OF CHARM, CRYING: MAKE BEAUTY BOULDER.

- AN ARTIST'S RELATION TO SOLITUDE.

AN ARTIST MUST MAKE TIME FOR THE LONG PERIOD OF SOLITUDE.

SOLITUDE IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

AWAY FROM HOME, AWAY FROM STUDIO,

AWAY FROM FAMILY, AWAY FROM FRIENDS.

AN ARTIST HAS TO UNDERSTAND SILENCE.

AN ARTIST HAS TO CREATE A SPACE FOR SILENCE TO ENTER HIS WORK.

SILENCE IS LIKE AN ISLAND

IN THE MIDDLE OF TURBULENT OCEAN.

MY PHYSICAL ENDURANCE AND THE EXTREME WILLPOWER

I THINK I GOT FROM MY MOTHER AND MY FATHER,

BECAUSE MY MOTHER AND MY FATHER,

THEY REALLY BELIEVE IN THE COMMUNISM,

AND THEY BELIEVE IN SACRIFICE FOR THE CAUSE.

YOUR PERSONAL LIFE WAS NOTHING.

IT'S IMPORTANT WHAT YOU ARE LIVING FOR.

IT'S JUST, LIKE, VERY, VERY STOIC AND VERY DEDICATED.

THAT'S HOW I WAS EDUCATED.

MY MOTHER, WHEN HER WATER BROKE WHEN SHE WAS GIVING BIRTH TO ME,

SHE WAS HAVING COMMUNIST PARTY MEETING,

AND SHE DIDN'T WANT TO STOP BEFORE SHE FINISHED IT.

AND THEN SHE WENT TO THE HOSPITAL

AND GIVE THE BIRTH TO ME.

I WAS THINKING THIS IS NORMAL.

I WAS THINKING THIS IS HOW IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE.

I DIDN'T THINK THAT EVERYTHING ELSE CAN BE DIFFERENT.

COMING FROM FORMER YUGOSLAVIA,

FROM THE REALLY INTERESTING FAMILY BACKGROUND,

WHICH MOTHER AND FATHER DON'T BELIEVE IN ANY KIND OF RELIGION

AND BEING TAKEN CARE OF BY MY GRANDMOTHER,

WHO WAS COMPLETELY RELIGIOUS FANATIC,

HAVING, YOU KNOW, GRANDFATHER

WHO WAS A SAINT OF THE ORTHODOX CHURCH,

THAT WAS A KIND OF ALMOST UNBEATABLE COMBINATION

TO GROW AS AN ARTIST.

FULL OF CONTRADICTIONS.

PERFORMANCE IS A TOOL HOW I CAN EXPRESS MYSELF.

AND I THINK, IN THE LIFE OF AN ARTIST,

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO FIND THE RIGHT TOOL.

AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT I WAS VERY LUCKY

THAT IT CAME SO EARLY TO ME, SO CLEARLY.

SINCE I REMEMBER, I WAS ALWAYS DRAWING EVERYWHERE.

I START ON THE LITTLE, YOU KNOW, PAPERS

AND THEN I WENT TO THE WALLS

AND THEN THE PARENTS REALLY UNDERSTOOD

THAT THEY SHOULD GIVE ME MORE PAPERS

AND THEN I STARTED DOING THE CANVASES

AND THEN IN NO TIME, I WAS PAINTING.

AND WITH AGE 12, I HAD MY FIRST EXHIBITION.

I REMEMBER THAT MY FIRST PERIOD WHICH I WAS PAINTING,

IT WAS SOMETHING GIVEN TO ME ALREADY; IT WAS MY DREAMS.

I HAD VERY, VERY VIVID DREAMS.

SOMETIMES THE DREAM WAS MORE THAN REALITY,

AND I WILL WAKE UP, AND REALITY WILL LOOK LIKE THE DREAM,

AND DREAM LOOK LIKE REAL THING.

SO THE DREAMS WAS ALWAYS BEING PAINTED

IN A KIND OF BLUE AND GREEN.

JUST THESE TWO COLORS I HAD.

AND LATER ON, I REMEMBER BEING VERY INTERESTED

IN TRUCK ACCIDENTS.

I WAS CRAZY ABOUT COMMUNIST BIG GREEN TRUCKS

AND HOW THEY'RE COLLIDING.

SO I WOULD GO TO THE ACTUALLY SCENES OF ACCIDENTS TOOK PLACE,

TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS, GO BACK, AND PAINT THEM.

AND THEN I WAS THINKING,

"OKAY, BUT WHAT IF THE BIG TRUCK WILL BE HIT BY THE LITTLE CAR,

LIKE A CHILDREN CAR?"

SO I WILL GO AND BUY LITTLE TOYS

AND I WOULD PUT THEM ON THE HIGHWAYS

AND I WAITED THE BIG TRUCK, YOU KNOW, SMASH THEM.

AND WHAT HAPPENED?

THIS LITTLE TOYS WAS ALWAYS BEING UNTOUCHED

BY THE BIG TRUCKS.

SO I STARTED GOING HOME AND PAINTING THESE BIG TRUCKS

BEING SMASHED BY THESE WONDERFUL LITTLE INNOCENT

CHILDREN TRUCKS.

AND THEN AFTER TRUCKS, I GET TO NEW PERIOD ALTOGETHER,

AND I START PAINT THE SKY.

AND I WAS CRAZY ABOUT CLOUDS.

THE CLOUDS WERE COMING, THE SHADOWS AND THE CLOUDS,

AND IT KIND OF BECOME A KIND OF MYSTICAL CHEMICAL

KIND OF A DIMENSION.

AND I REMEMBER SO WELL THAT MOMENT,

AND I THINK I WAS IN MY BEGINNING OF MY 20s,

LYING ON THE GRASS FLD AND LOOKING TO THE SKY.

JUST PLAIN BLUE SKY.

AND IN THIS PLAIN BLUE SKY,

I SAW THE 12 ULTRASONIC AIRPLANES PASSING BY

AND LEAVING THIS COMPLETE SHARP LINE.

I SEE IN THE FRONT OF MY EYES, FIRST, BLUE SKY,

THEN THE LINES CREATED BY ULTRASONIC PLANES

DISSOLVE IN THE AIR INTO BLUE SKY AGAIN.

AND I THINK IT WAS, FOR ME, LIKE A SPIRITUAL REVELATION.

I REMEMBER STAND UP AND I WANT IMMEDIATELY

TO GO TO THE MILITARY HEADQUARTERS

AND ASK GENERAL THERE IF THEY CAN BORROW ME

12 ULTRASONIC PLANES TO MAKE THE DRAWINGS IN THE SKY.

MY FATHER WAS THE GENERAL.

BECAUSE THEY KNOW MY FATHER, THEY IMMEDIATELY CALLED HIM

AND SAY, "YOUR DAUGHTER'S COMPLETELY CRAZY.

"GET HER OUT OF HERE.

"DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO FLY THE ULTRASONIC PLANES

FOR HER TO MAKE DRAWINGS IN THE SKY?"

SO VERY EARLY, UNDERSTOOD THAT

THERE IS CERTAIN THINGS I CAN'T DO.

BUT IN THE SAME TIME, I GOT A REVELATION

IN THIS MOMENT OF LOOKING TO BLUE SKY

THAT ACTUALLY I CAN USE EVERYTHING I WANT.

I CAN USE THE WATER, THE ISLANDS,

THE FIRE, THE EARTH, THE AIR, AND MYSELF.

AND THIS WAS THE MOMENT THAT I DECIDED

THAT IT'S COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS TO GO TO THE STUDIO

AND MAKE SOMETHING THAT IS TWO-DIMENSIONAL

WHEN I COULD HAVE ENTIRE WORLD THERE FOR ME.

AND THAT'S WHEN I STOPPED PAINTING.

SO AFTER THIS HUGE REVELATION,

ACTUALLY WHAT FOR ME WAS VERY INTERESTING

IS TO START WORKING WITH THE SOUND.

WHAT WAS INTERESTING ME ABOUT THE SOUND

IS TO CREATE SOUND ENVIRONMENTS WHERE, YOU KNOW,

YOU HAVE ONE IMPRESSION LISTENING TO THE SOUND

BUT VISUALLY, COMPLETELY ANOTHER IMPRESSION.

SO THE FIRST IDEA I HAD, IT WAS TO PUT THE SPEAKERS

ON THE BRIDGE, OF THE MAIN BRIDGE IN BELGRADE,

WITH THE SOUND OF BRIDGE COLLAPSING.

SO WHEN YOU'RE ON THE BRIDGE ITSELF,

WITH EVERY THREE MINUTES, THE BRIDGE IS FALLING DOWN

BUT, VISUALLY, IT'S NOT.

AND OF COURSE TO DO SUCH ACTION, YOU NEED TO GET PERMISSION

FROM THE CITY MAYOR.

SO I WENT TO THE CITY MAYOR HOUSE.

AGAIN, HAPPENED THE SAME THING,

THEY ABSOLUTELY FORBID TO DO THIS,

BECAUSE THEY TOLD ME THAT, ACTUALLY, FROM THE VIBRATIONS

WITH THAT KIND OF SOUND, THE BRIDGE CAN REALLY FALL DOWN.

SO I COULD NOT DO IT.

THEN I DID IT WITH THE BUILDING WHERE I WAS LIVING,

BUT IT WAS ONLY FOR TEN MINUTES THE WHOLE PCE,

BECAUSE THE PEOPLE, INHABITANTS, WERE JUST RUNNING OUT

THINKING THAT EVERYTHING'S BOMBED.

SO THAT WAS KIND OF BIG MESS.

SOMEHOW DEALING WITH THE SOUND, I COME TO THE POINT

WHEN I HAD MY FIRST PERFORMANCE RHYTHM 10,

WHICH ACTUALLY USED THE KNIVES.

AND THE RHYTHM 10 IS A SOUND PCE, AGAIN.

I HAVE THE, YOU KNOW, TAPE RECORDERS

AND I WAS DOING CERTAIN GAME TWICE.

WHEN IT WAS MY BODY INVOLVED.

AND THE MOMENT WHEN I INVOLVED MY BODY IN THE PERFORMANCE,

THIS INCREDIBLE ENERGY DIALOGUE WAS ESTABLISHED WITH THE PUBLIC.

IT WAS SO OVERWHELMING

THAT I COULD NOT EVER COME BACK TO ANY OTHER FORM OF ART.

IN THE BEGINNING, IN MY EARLY WORK WITH PERFORMANCE,

I REALLY EMBRACED REPETITION.

IT WAS TO REPEAT CERTAIN ACTION OVER AND OVER AGAIN

TO COME TO THE KIND OF ALMOST CHARISMATIC STATE OF MIND.

AND THE PERFORMANCES IN THE BEGINNING,

QUITE VIOLENT AND VERY TOUGH.

YOU KNOW, LIKE RUN INTO THE WALL

OR BREAKING THE WALLS,

CUTTING THE STARS IN THE STOMACH,

LYING ON THE ICE, BEATING YOURSELF

TO SEE HOW FAR, PHYSICALLY, YOU CAN GO

AND TRANSCENDENT, ACTUALLY, THE PAINFUL EXPERIENCE

INTO SOMETHING ELSE.

LATER ON, THE MORE AND MORE PERFORMANCE I DEVELOP,

I BECOME MORE AND MORE INTERESTED

IN MENTAL STATE OF PCE

AND THEN EXTEND THE TIME.

THE LONGER PERFORMANCE GETS,

THE MORE TRANSCENDENTAL CAN GET

AND TRANSFORMATIVE TO THE PERFORMER DOING IT,

BUT ALSO TO PUBLIC PARTICIPATING.

SO THIS IS THE ACTUALLY, THE DOOR

OF SOMETHING COMPLETELY ELSE.

HOW YOU CAN ELEVATE HUMAN SPIRIT.

AS YOU SEE AROUND US, OUR LIFE IS SO SHORT AND SO FAST.

MINE, I HAVE NO TIME FOR ANYTHING.

SO THE LONGER I DO PERFORMANCE, THE BETTER THINGS GET.

I THINK THAT ART SHOULD GO LONGER AND LONGER

AS LIFE BECOMES SHORTER AND SHORTER.

WHEN YOU DIE, YOU CAN'T TAKE YOUR PHYSICAL GOODS WITH YOU,

BUT A GOOD IDEA CAN STAY.

I AM VERY OCCUPIED NOW ABOUT MY LEGACY.

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR ME, PRESERVATION PERFORMANCE ART

AND HOW THEY'RE GOING TO DEVELOP

AND WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF PERFORMANCE ART.

THREE YEARS AGO, FOR MY OWN BIRTHDAY,

I PURCHASED A BUILDING IN HUDSON.

IT'S A VERY LARGE SPACE.

WE CAN HOST ABOUT 1,500 PEOPLE.

I WAS INTERESTING TO CREATE SITUATION

WHICH WILL BE REALLY CENTER FOR PRESERVATION

FOR PERFORMANCE ART,

BUT ALSO TO COMMISSION THE YOUNG ARTISTS

AND VERY KNOWN ARTISTS TO MAKE LONG DURATION

OF PERFORMANCE WORK.

BUT NOT JUST PERFORMANCE I'M DOING,

BUT ALSO THE THEATER, THE MUSIC, THE VIDEO,

THE DANCE, THE OPERA.

JUST LONG DURATION.

I'M DEVELOPING SYSTEM THAT YOU NEVER LEAVE THE SPACE.

I WANTED TO CREATE SOME KIND OF SITUATION

WHERE YOU HAVE THE SEATS,

AFTER MAYBE THREE HOURS YOU'RE REALLY TIRED,

THE SEAT RECLINING TO LITTLE BED.

YOU HAVE A LITTLE BLANKET.

YOU COVER YOURSELF.

YOU GO TO SLEEP.

YOU WAKE UP, PCE IS GOING ON.

ON THE LEFT SIDE IS A COLD DRINK

INSIDE THE CHAIR ARM.

AND THE OTHER SIDE IS HOT MEAL.

A LITTLE LAMP IF YOU WANT TO WRITE THE NOTES.

SO THAT YOU'RE REALLY INSIDE THE PCE FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

I'VE REALLY BEEN THINKING SO MUCH,

YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE ROLE OF AN ARTIST?

WHAT IS MY FUNCTION ON THIS EARTH ANYWAY?

I THINK THAT BEING AN ARTIST IS SUCH A HUGE RESPONSIBILITY.

IN MY CASE, I CREATE THREE GROUPS OF THE ATTITUDES,

WHAT I HAVE TO DO AS AN ARTIST.

I CALLED THE FIRST GROUP IS ARTIST'S BODY.

AND JUST VERY SIMPLE; IS ME PERFORMING

IN THE FRONT OF AUDIENCE.

SECOND IS THE PUBLIC BODY, IS TO CREATE OBJECTS

I CALL THEM TRANSITORY BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT SCULPTURES

AND CIRCUMSTANCES WHICH THE PUBLIC CAN ACTUALLY

PERFORM FOR THEMSELVES AND GET EXPERIENCE.

AND THE THIRD, IT WILL BE STUDENT BODY.

AND THIS IS MY FUNCTION AS A TEACHER,

THAT ACTUALLY WHEN YOU COME TO ONE POINT OF YOUR LIFE,

THAT YOU REALLY HAVE TO UNCONDITIONALLY

TRANSFER THE KNOWLEDGE

TO YOUNGER GENERATION OF ARTIST.

AND NOT ONLY TRANSFER IT

BUT ALSO HELP THEM IN THE DEVELOPMENT.

IT'S A REALLY, IN A WAY, SOME KIND OF FAIR DIALOGUE,

BECAUSE THEY GIVE YOU SENSE OF TIME YOU LIVE IN

BECAUSE THEY'RE YOUNG

AND THEY UNDERSTAND DIFFERENTLY THE WORLD,

AND YOU GIVE THEM THE EXPERIENCE.

YOU CAN'T DECIDE WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO DIE,

BUT YOU DEFINITELY CAN REHEARSE YOUR FUNERAL.

WITH A LAWYER, I ACTUALLY MADE MY TESTAMENT

WHICH MY REAL WISH ABOUT MY FUNERAL IS TO BE THREE COFFINS,

ONE WITH REAL MARINA AND TWO FAKE MARINAS.

AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE BURIED

IN THREE DIFFERENT PLACES IN THE WORLD,

WHICH I LIVED THE LONGEST.

MEANS BELGRADE, IN EX-YUGOSLAVIA, NOW SERBIA;

AMSTERDAM, IN HOLLAND;

AND NEW YORK, WHICH I LIVE RIGHT NOW.

THEY WILL BE SIMULTANEOUS BURYING.

IN ALL OF THESE FUNERALS, PEOPLE WILL NOT WEAR ANY BLACK

BUT REALLY BRIGHT CLOTHES, LIKE GREEN OR RED AND PINK

AND ACID éLOW AND SO ON.

AND IT WILL BE VERY FESTIVE SITUATION.

AND REALLY, IDEA: YOU KNOW, YOU LIVE WELL;

YOU HAVE TO DIE WELL TOO.

AN ARTIST SHOULD LOOK DEEP INSIDE THEMSELVES

FOR INSPIRATION.

THE DEEPER THEY LOOK INSIDE THEMSELVES,

THE MORE UNIVERSAL THEY BECOME.

THE ARTIST IS UNIVERSE.

THE ARTIST IS UNIVERSE.

THE ARTIST IS UNIVERSE.

announcer: NEXT TIME ON ART IN THE 21ST CENTURY...

- I GET VERY POSSESSIVE OF MY PLACES,

AND I DON'T WANT ANY OTHER ARTIST

COMING AROUND HERE AND PAINTING.

- I REALLY LIKE THIS IDEA THAT NATURAL WILDLIFE

SURVIVES IN THIS INTENSE METROPOLIS.

- MY INFLUENCE COMES FROM THE HISTORY OF ART

AND THE CULTURE OF OUR TIMES.

announcer: TO LEARN MORE ABOUT ART IN THE 21ST CENTURY

AND ITS EDUCATIONAL RESOURCES,

PLEASE VISIT US ONLINE AT:

ART IN THE 21ST CENTURY IS AVAILABLE ON DVD.

THE COMPANION BOOK IS ALSO AVAILABLE.

TO ORDER, VISIT US ONLINE AT:

OR CALL PBS HOME VIDEO AT: