Systems

[soft electronic music]

[soft electronic music] >> IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN

>> IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN A BIG PART OF TRYING TO FIGURE

A BIG PART OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO I AM AND MY WORK,

OUT WHO I AM AND MY WORK, IS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND SYSTEMS.

IS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND SYSTEMS.

>> I THINK MY IDEA IS THIS:

>> I THINK MY IDEA IS THIS: NOT SO MUCH STRUCTURE THAT IT'S

NOT SO MUCH STRUCTURE THAT IT'S INHIBITING, BUT NOT SO LOOSE

INHIBITING, BUT NOT SO LOOSE THAT IT COULD BE ANYTHING.

THAT IT COULD BE ANYTHING.

>> WHENEVER I HAVE A NEW

>> WHENEVER I HAVE A NEW QUESTION, I WOULD ALWAYS LIKE TO

QUESTION, I WOULD ALWAYS LIKE TO CONTINUE.

CONTINUE.

MY WORK IS ALWAYS IN PROCESS.

MY WORK IS ALWAYS IN PROCESS.

>> WHENEVER I DESIGN A PROJECT,

>> WHENEVER I DESIGN A PROJECT, IT'S IN MY HEAD WHILE I'M

IT'S IN MY HEAD WHILE I'M DESIGNING IT THAT I WOULD BE

DESIGNING IT THAT I WOULD BE ABLE TO SHOW SOMEONE ELSE HOW TO

ABLE TO SHOW SOMEONE ELSE HOW TO DO IT.

DO IT.

[soft electronic music]

[soft electronic music] >> MY EARLIER DRAWINGS

>> MY EARLIER DRAWINGS AND PAINTINGS HAD THIS MAPLIKE,

AND PAINTINGS HAD THIS MAPLIKE, DIAGRAMMATIC ELEMENT TO THEM.

DIAGRAMMATIC ELEMENT TO THEM.

AS THE WORK HAS SHIFTED TO BEING

AS THE WORK HAS SHIFTED TO BEING MORE ATMOSPHERIC OR PAINTERLY,

MORE ATMOSPHERIC OR PAINTERLY, I REFRAINED FROM TRYING TO

I REFRAINED FROM TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT'S GOING ON IN

EXPLAIN WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE PAINTINGS AS MUCH BECAUSE

THE PAINTINGS AS MUCH BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THESE KIND OF

THEY'RE NOT THESE KIND OF RATIONAL DESCRIPTIONS OR--OR

RATIONAL DESCRIPTIONS OR--OR EFFORTS TO ARTICULATE SOMETHING

EFFORTS TO ARTICULATE SOMETHING IN THAT WAY.

IN THAT WAY.

I'M NOT TRYING TO SPELL OUT

I'M NOT TRYING TO SPELL OUT A STORY.

A STORY.

I STILL THINK YOU FEEL THE

I STILL THINK YOU FEEL THE PAINTING, AND THE REASON YOU

PAINTING, AND THE REASON YOU READ THE MARK IS ALSO BECAUSE

READ THE MARK IS ALSO BECAUSE YOU ALSO FEEL THE MARK.

[soft whirring]

>> SO THE TWO PROJECTS THAT

>> SO THE TWO PROJECTS THAT WE'RE DOING IN BERLIN: ONE IS

WE'RE DOING IN BERLIN: ONE IS A WORK THAT'S ABOUT 21 FEET BY

A WORK THAT'S ABOUT 21 FEET BY 85 FEET LONG, AND--ONE PAINTING.

AND THE OTHER IS ANOTHER PROJECT

AND THE OTHER IS ANOTHER PROJECT WHERE WE'RE DOING SEVEN

WHERE WE'RE DOING SEVEN PAINTINGS THAT ARE SMALL

PAINTINGS THAT ARE SMALL IN COMPARISON, 10x14 EACH.

IN COMPARISON, 10x14 EACH.

[airbrush hissing]

[airbrush hissing] THE 21x85-FOOT PAINTING WILL

THE 21x85-FOOT PAINTING WILL TAKE ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF.

IT'S REALLY ONE PAINTING EVEN

IT'S REALLY ONE PAINTING EVEN THOUGH THERE WILL BE EITHER FIVE

THOUGH THERE WILL BE EITHER FIVE SECTIONS OR TEN SECTIONS;

SECTIONS OR TEN SECTIONS; IT FUNCTIONS AS ONE PAINTING.

IT FUNCTIONS AS ONE PAINTING.

THE STRETCHERS THAT WE'RE USING

THE STRETCHERS THAT WE'RE USING ARE NOT GONNA BE THE STRETCHERS

ARE NOT GONNA BE THE STRETCHERS THAT WE'RE USING ON-SITE.

THAT WE'RE USING ON-SITE.

SO THESE PAINTINGS WILL BE TAKEN

SO THESE PAINTINGS WILL BE TAKEN OFF OF THESE STRETCHERS, ROLLED

OFF OF THESE STRETCHERS, ROLLED UP, SHIPPED BACK, AND THEN

UP, SHIPPED BACK, AND THEN RESTRETCHED AT THE SITE.

>> JUST WATCH OUT FOR THE

>> JUST WATCH OUT FOR THE COLUMN, THOUGH.

COLUMN, THOUGH.

>> THE REASON THAT WE'RE IN

>> THE REASON THAT WE'RE IN BERLIN IS BECAUSE JULIE'S STUDIO

BERLIN IS BECAUSE JULIE'S STUDIO IN NEW YORK CAN'T ACCOMMODATE

IN NEW YORK CAN'T ACCOMMODATE SOMETHING OF THIS SCALE.

SOMETHING OF THIS SCALE.

THIS PROJECT JUST KIND OF HAD

THIS PROJECT JUST KIND OF HAD TO DICTATE WHERE IT WAS GONNA BE

TO DICTATE WHERE IT WAS GONNA BE MORE THAN WE WERE GONNA DICTATE

MORE THAN WE WERE GONNA DICTATE WHERE IT WAS GONNA BE.

WHERE IT WAS GONNA BE.

IT'S EPIC.

IT'S EPIC.

THIS PLACE WAS THREE TIMES

THIS PLACE WAS THREE TIMES BIGGER THAN WHAT WE ENVISIONED.

BIGGER THAN WHAT WE ENVISIONED.

SO WE WERE ABLE TO DESIGN ALL

SO WE WERE ABLE TO DESIGN ALL THE WALLS, DO WHATEVER WE WANT

THE WALLS, DO WHATEVER WE WANT TO THE SPACES, AND JUST HAVE

TO THE SPACES, AND JUST HAVE EVERYTHING THAT WE NEEDED AND

EVERYTHING THAT WE NEEDED AND WANTED.

WANTED.

THIS IS JUST SOMETHING THAT YOU

THIS IS JUST SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN'T, UNFORTUNATELY, GET IN

CAN'T, UNFORTUNATELY, GET IN NEW YORK.

NEW YORK.

SO WE JUST TOOK IT AND

SO WE JUST TOOK IT AND RAN WITH IT.

RAN WITH IT.

>> THIS PROJECT IS CRAZY.

>> THIS PROJECT IS CRAZY.

[chuckles]

[chuckles] EVERYTHING IS NEW: THE SIZE,

EVERYTHING IS NEW: THE SIZE, THE SPACE, JUST WORKING IN

THE SPACE, JUST WORKING IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY, TRYING TO

A DIFFERENT COUNTRY, TRYING TO GET MATERIALS.

GET MATERIALS.

IT'S JUST--IT'S CRAZY.

[sprayer hissing]

[sprayer hissing] WE ALL KIND OF HAVE OUR OWN

WE ALL KIND OF HAVE OUR OWN DIFFERENT JOBS THAT WE'VE KIND

DIFFERENT JOBS THAT WE'VE KIND OF DEVELOPED.

OF DEVELOPED.

MOSTLY I DO THE SURFACES.

MOSTLY I DO THE SURFACES.

JULIE IS ALL FOR

JULIE IS ALL FOR EXPERIMENTATIONS.

I STARTED DEVELOPING THIS NEW

I STARTED DEVELOPING THIS NEW SURFACE: KIND OF THIS, LIKE,

SURFACE: KIND OF THIS, LIKE, ACRYLIC-BASED, ALMOST LIKE

ACRYLIC-BASED, ALMOST LIKE ABSORBENT PAPER SURFACE.

ABSORBENT PAPER SURFACE.

SO SHE CAN ACTUALLY PAINT ON

SO SHE CAN ACTUALLY PAINT ON THESE SURFACES ALMOST LIKE

THESE SURFACES ALMOST LIKE PAPER, BUT THEY CAN BE

PAPER, BUT THEY CAN BE ANY SCALE.

>> JANUARY OF 2007, I WAS

>> JANUARY OF 2007, I WAS WORKING ON SOME NEW PAINTINGS,

WORKING ON SOME NEW PAINTINGS, AND IN THAT PROCESS, I HAD BEEN

AND IN THAT PROCESS, I HAD BEEN DOING A BUNCH OF WATERCOLORS.

DOING A BUNCH OF WATERCOLORS.

WHEN I WAS WORKING ON THE

WHEN I WAS WORKING ON THE WATERCOLORS, THERE WAS THIS

WATERCOLORS, THERE WAS THIS PHENOMENON THAT WAS HAPPENING

PHENOMENON THAT WAS HAPPENING IN THOSE THAT I WANTED TO TRY

IN THOSE THAT I WANTED TO TRY AND BRING INTO THE PAINTING.

AND BRING INTO THE PAINTING.

IN ONE PAINTING, IT WAS JUST NOT

IN ONE PAINTING, IT WAS JUST NOT WORKING.

WORKING.

I KEPT PUSHING THE COLOR INTO

I KEPT PUSHING THE COLOR INTO THIS PAINTING WHERE THERE'D BEEN

THIS PAINTING WHERE THERE'D BEEN THIS INTENSE AMOUNT OF DRAWING

THIS INTENSE AMOUNT OF DRAWING AND THIS INTENSE ACTION BETWEEN

AND THIS INTENSE ACTION BETWEEN ALL THESE DIFFERENT MARKS.

ALL THESE DIFFERENT MARKS.

AND SO AT ONE POINT, I JUST

AND SO AT ONE POINT, I JUST STARTED TO SAND AWAY ALL THE--

STARTED TO SAND AWAY ALL THE-- ALL THE COLOR THAT CAME

ALL THE COLOR THAT CAME INTO THE WORK.

INTO THE WORK.

AND AT ONE POINT WHEN I HAD

AND AT ONE POINT WHEN I HAD FINISHED SANDING IT, I TURNED

FINISHED SANDING IT, I TURNED AROUND AND LOOKED AT IT,

AROUND AND LOOKED AT IT, AND IT WAS A FINISHED PAINTING.

AND IT WAS A FINISHED PAINTING.

THAT--IT WAS ALMOST--

THAT--IT WAS ALMOST-- THAT'S WHEN I CALLED IT THIS

THAT'S WHEN I CALLED IT THIS POLTERGEIST IN THE WORK.

POLTERGEIST IN THE WORK.

AND IT BECAME THIS ABSENCE,

AND IT BECAME THIS ABSENCE, THIS--THE--THE ERASURE ITSELF

THIS--THE--THE ERASURE ITSELF BECAME THE ACTION.

BECAME THE ACTION.

AND IT REMINDED ME THE CAVES OF

AND IT REMINDED ME THE CAVES OF THE BUDDHAS IN AFGHANISTAN ONCE

THE BUDDHAS IN AFGHANISTAN ONCE THE TALIBAN REMOVED THOSE

THE TALIBAN REMOVED THOSE BUDDHAS: THAT IMAGE OF THEIR

BUDDHAS: THAT IMAGE OF THEIR ABSENCE.

ABSENCE.

IT WAS ALMOST THAT TYPE OF

IT WAS ALMOST THAT TYPE OF FEELING TO THIS AREA IN THIS

FEELING TO THIS AREA IN THIS PAINTING.

PAINTING.

IT FELT TO ME TO KIND OF SUGGEST

IT FELT TO ME TO KIND OF SUGGEST A MOMENT

A MOMENT IN TERMS OF HOW

IN TERMS OF HOW SAD OR PESSIMISTIC YOU CAN FEEL

SAD OR PESSIMISTIC YOU CAN FEEL IN A POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT AND--

IN A POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT AND-- OR KIND OF HISTORICAL SITUATION

OR KIND OF HISTORICAL SITUATION THAT WE'RE IN GLOBALLY.

THAT WE'RE IN GLOBALLY.

SO IT FELT LIKE THIS REALLY,

SO IT FELT LIKE THIS REALLY, YOU KNOW, KIND OF HOPEFUL

YOU KNOW, KIND OF HOPEFUL GESTURE IN THE PAINTING, FOR ME.

I'M AN ETHIOPIAN-AMERICAN.

I'M AN ETHIOPIAN-AMERICAN.

MY--YOU KNOW, A BIG PART OF MY

MY--YOU KNOW, A BIG PART OF MY FAMILY IS ETHIOPIAN, BUT I'VE

FAMILY IS ETHIOPIAN, BUT I'VE BEEN IN THE STATES SINCE

BEEN IN THE STATES SINCE I WAS SIX.

I WAS SIX.

I WAS RAISED IN MICHIGAN.

I WAS RAISED IN MICHIGAN.

I LIVE IN NEW YORK CITY,

I LIVE IN NEW YORK CITY, FOR THE MOST PART.

FOR THE MOST PART.

I'M IN BERLIN NOW.

I'M IN BERLIN NOW.

BUT, I MEAN, WHEN I MOVE AROUND

BUT, I MEAN, WHEN I MOVE AROUND THE WORLD, I MOVE AROUND THE

THE WORLD, I MOVE AROUND THE WORLD AS AN AMERICAN.

BEING A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED

BEING A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES OR OF ANY ONE IN THE

STATES OR OF ANY ONE IN THE EUROPEAN UNION, YOU ARE

EUROPEAN UNION, YOU ARE A CITIZEN OF INCREDIBLE

A CITIZEN OF INCREDIBLE PRIVILEGE.

PRIVILEGE.

I THINK ANYONE WHO IS AWARE OF

I THINK ANYONE WHO IS AWARE OF THAT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME

THAT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME RESPONSIBILITY.

>> WE BASICALLY HAVE A PLAN

>> WE BASICALLY HAVE A PLAN FROM JULIE THAT HAS THESE

FROM JULIE THAT HAS THESE MULTI-LAYERS OF SHAPES AND

MULTI-LAYERS OF SHAPES AND LINE WORK AND THESE FORMS THAT

LINE WORK AND THESE FORMS THAT SHE'S GOTTEN FROM DIFFERENT

SHE'S GOTTEN FROM DIFFERENT AREAS, AND FOR US TO BE ABLE

AREAS, AND FOR US TO BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY REPLICATE THAT

TO ACTUALLY REPLICATE THAT SUCCESSFULLY, WE THEN HAVE TO

SUCCESSFULLY, WE THEN HAVE TO TAKE IT AND JUST SAY,

TAKE IT AND JUST SAY, "ALL RIGHT, WELL, THIS SHAPE,

"ALL RIGHT, WELL, THIS SHAPE, THIS SHAPE, THIS SHAPE IS UNDER

THIS SHAPE, THIS SHAPE IS UNDER THESE TEN SHAPES, WHICH ARE

THESE TEN SHAPES, WHICH ARE UNDER THESE FIVE SHAPES BUT ARE

UNDER THESE FIVE SHAPES BUT ARE ABOVE THESE SIX SHAPES."

ABOVE THESE SIX SHAPES."

AND THEN LAYER BY LAYER, WE'LL

AND THEN LAYER BY LAYER, WE'LL PROJECT AND, YOU KNOW, MASK AND

PROJECT AND, YOU KNOW, MASK AND PAINT OR AIRBRUSH OR DRAW,

PAINT OR AIRBRUSH OR DRAW, HOWEVER WE CAN, GET HER ORIGINAL

HOWEVER WE CAN, GET HER ORIGINAL SOURCE UP ONTO THE SURFACE.

SOURCE UP ONTO THE SURFACE.

SO SOMETIMES IT CAN BE A SIMPLE

SO SOMETIMES IT CAN BE A SIMPLE COMPOSITION THAT WE ONLY HAVE

COMPOSITION THAT WE ONLY HAVE TO BREAK APART INTO THREE OR

TO BREAK APART INTO THREE OR FOUR LAYERS, OR SOMETIMES IT'LL

FOUR LAYERS, OR SOMETIMES IT'LL BE A DETAILED COMPOSITION

BE A DETAILED COMPOSITION THAT WE HAVE BREAK INTO

THAT WE HAVE BREAK INTO 15, 20 SUBLAYERS.

[indistinct conversation]

>> FOR THIS NEXT SHOW, WHICH IS

>> FOR THIS NEXT SHOW, WHICH IS FOR THE GUGGENHEIM, I'M MAKING

FOR THE GUGGENHEIM, I'M MAKING SEVEN PAINTINGS THAT ARE 10 FEET

SEVEN PAINTINGS THAT ARE 10 FEET BY 14 FEET.

BY 14 FEET.

MANY PARTS OF THE DRAWING

MANY PARTS OF THE DRAWING WILL ALSO BE ERASED.

WILL ALSO BE ERASED.

SO THE PAINTINGS WILL BUILD UP,

SO THE PAINTINGS WILL BUILD UP, AND THEN A BIG PORTION OF THEM

AND THEN A BIG PORTION OF THEM SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER WILL

SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER WILL DISAPPEAR.

DISAPPEAR.

SO THEN HOPEFULLY, THE PAINTINGS

SO THEN HOPEFULLY, THE PAINTINGS WILL ALSO JUST INTERACT TO TALK

WILL ALSO JUST INTERACT TO TALK ABOUT DISINTEGRATION.

ABOUT DISINTEGRATION.

I TRY TO START THE GROUP OF

I TRY TO START THE GROUP OF PAINTINGS WITH EACH HAVING THEIR

PAINTINGS WITH EACH HAVING THEIR OWN KIND OF ARCHITECTURAL

OWN KIND OF ARCHITECTURAL INFORMATION.

INFORMATION.

THIS PIECE RIGHT NOW, IT'S JUST

THIS PIECE RIGHT NOW, IT'S JUST DIFFERENT VIEWS FROM GOOGLE

DIFFERENT VIEWS FROM GOOGLE EARTH, YOU KNOW, OF NEW YORK

EARTH, YOU KNOW, OF NEW YORK CITY AND TOKYO.

CITY AND TOKYO.

BASICALLY, IT'S TRACING, BECAUSE

BASICALLY, IT'S TRACING, BECAUSE THAT TAKES SO LONG, AND A LOT OF

THAT TAKES SO LONG, AND A LOT OF THE STUFF THAT THE ASSISTANTS

THE STUFF THAT THE ASSISTANTS DO, IT BECOMES A GROUND FOR

DO, IT BECOMES A GROUND FOR MY WORK.

MY WORK.

I'M SO BLESSED TO HAVE SUCH

I'M SO BLESSED TO HAVE SUCH A GREAT TEAM.

A GREAT TEAM.

THIS WOULD BE A NIGHTMARE IF IT

THIS WOULD BE A NIGHTMARE IF IT WASN'T SUCH A GREAT GROUP OF

WASN'T SUCH A GREAT GROUP OF PEOPLE.

PEOPLE.

THE DIFFICULT PART IS, WE HAVE

THE DIFFICULT PART IS, WE HAVE NOT THAT MUCH TIME.

NOT THAT MUCH TIME.

WE HAVE A YEAR FROM NOW.

WE HAVE A YEAR FROM NOW.

AND WE HAVE TO TRUST THE PROCESS

AND WE HAVE TO TRUST THE PROCESS AND TRUST THE INTUITION AND

AND TRUST THE INTUITION AND TRUST--AND TRUST THAT HOPEFULLY

TRUST--AND TRUST THAT HOPEFULLY IT MANIFESTS ITSELF, AND WE'LL--

IT MANIFESTS ITSELF, AND WE'LL-- AND THAT I'LL BE ABLE TO MAKE

AND THAT I'LL BE ABLE TO MAKE THESE PICTURES WORK, I MEAN,

THESE PICTURES WORK, I MEAN, BECAUSE AFTER THE INITIAL WORK

BECAUSE AFTER THE INITIAL WORK IS DONE BY EVERYONE ELSE,

IS DONE BY EVERYONE ELSE, IT'S UP TO ME TO REALLY GO IN

IT'S UP TO ME TO REALLY GO IN AND DRAW ON ALL OF THEM

AND DRAW ON ALL OF THEM AND COMPLETE THEM.

[indistinct conversations]

THE LARGE COMMISSION HAS

THE LARGE COMMISSION HAS A REALLY SPECIFIC POINT OF

A REALLY SPECIFIC POINT OF DEPARTURE IN TERMS OF WHAT IT'S

DEPARTURE IN TERMS OF WHAT IT'S CONCEPTUALLY TRYING TO DEAL

CONCEPTUALLY TRYING TO DEAL WITH.

IF YOU'RE GONNA MAKE A PICTURE

IF YOU'RE GONNA MAKE A PICTURE OF THAT SCALE AND EMBED THAT AND

OF THAT SCALE AND EMBED THAT AND LOCATE THAT IN LOWER MANHATTAN,

LOCATE THAT IN LOWER MANHATTAN, WHICH IS WHERE IT'S COMMISSIONED

WHICH IS WHERE IT'S COMMISSIONED FOR, CAN YOU DEAL, THEN, WITH

FOR, CAN YOU DEAL, THEN, WITH WHAT LOWER MANHATTAN SYMBOLIZES?

WHAT LOWER MANHATTAN SYMBOLIZES?

IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN

IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN A BIG PART OF TRYING TO FIGURE

A BIG PART OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO I AM AND MY WORK,

OUT WHO I AM AND MY WORK, IS TRYING UNDERSTAND SYSTEMS.

WHAT YOU'VE SEEN HERE IS ONLY

WHAT YOU'VE SEEN HERE IS ONLY THE FIRST LAYER OF INFORMATION,

THE FIRST LAYER OF INFORMATION, AND THAT FIRST LAYER OF

AND THAT FIRST LAYER OF INFORMATION IS HOPEFULLY

INFORMATION IS HOPEFULLY SOMETHING THAT MIMICS EARLY MAPS

SOMETHING THAT MIMICS EARLY MAPS FROM THE EARLY SILK ROAD

FROM THE EARLY SILK ROAD THROUGH THE EVOLUTION OF THE

THROUGH THE EVOLUTION OF THE MARKETPLACE.

CAN YOU ACTUALLY MAKE A PICTURE

CAN YOU ACTUALLY MAKE A PICTURE THAT IN SOME WAY MAPS AND GIVES

THAT IN SOME WAY MAPS AND GIVES A PICTURE OF THIS HISTORY OF THE

A PICTURE OF THIS HISTORY OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF--YOU KNOW,

DEVELOPMENT OF--YOU KNOW, CAPITALIST DEVELOPMENT,

CAPITALIST DEVELOPMENT, ECONOMIC SYSTEM?

ECONOMIC SYSTEM?

WHICH IS ABSURD.

IT'S--

WHICH IS ABSURD.

IT'S-- [chuckles]

>> CAN YOU SEPARATE IT OUT?

>> CAN YOU SEPARATE IT OUT?

>> THAT I CAN.

>> THAT I CAN.

>> NO, BUT IF THEY JUST DRAW--

>> NO, BUT IF THEY JUST DRAW-- LIKE JUST DRAW THESE

LIKE JUST DRAW THESE LITTLE SECTIONS.

LITTLE SECTIONS.

>> RIGHT.

>> RIGHT.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

>> YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

YOU CAN'T TELL WHAT'S WHAT,

YOU CAN'T TELL WHAT'S WHAT, THEN.

THEN.

THAT WHOLE--

THAT WHOLE-- WHAT IT DOES IS, IT JUST BUILDS

WHAT IT DOES IS, IT JUST BUILDS LIKE THESE PLATEAUS OF SPACE.

LIKE THESE PLATEAUS OF SPACE.

IT CREATES A SPACE.

IT CREATES A SPACE.

[machine rumbles]

[machine rumbles] >> [speaks indistinctly]

>> [speaks indistinctly] THAT KIND OF DRAWING,

THAT KIND OF DRAWING, BUT I THINK THAT IF YOU HAD IT

BUT I THINK THAT IF YOU HAD IT WITH NO RECOGNIZABLE

WITH NO RECOGNIZABLE BUILDINGS WHATSOEVER--

BUILDINGS WHATSOEVER-- >> NO.

>> NO.

>> I THINK INEVITABLY AS AN

>> I THINK INEVITABLY AS AN ARTIST COUPLE, YOU'RE GONNA

ARTIST COUPLE, YOU'RE GONNA IMPACT EACH OTHER AND INFLUENCE

IMPACT EACH OTHER AND INFLUENCE EACH OTHER AND...

EACH OTHER AND... >> IT'S, LIKE, ABOUT, LIKE,

>> IT'S, LIKE, ABOUT, LIKE, FRAGMENTED SPACE,

FRAGMENTED SPACE, AND THEN SO MUCH OF

AND THEN SO MUCH OF THAT IS LIKE...

THAT IS LIKE... >> I MEAN, WE'VE ALWAYS WORKED

>> I MEAN, WE'VE ALWAYS WORKED THAT WAY, EVER SINCE WE FIRST

THAT WAY, EVER SINCE WE FIRST STARTED LIVING AND WORKING

STARTED LIVING AND WORKING TOGETHER, EIGHT YEARS AGO NOW.

TOGETHER, EIGHT YEARS AGO NOW.

WE'VE--IT'S JUST A VERY ORGANIC

WE'VE--IT'S JUST A VERY ORGANIC PROCESS, AND THAT'S SORT OF THE

PROCESS, AND THAT'S SORT OF THE WAY WE LEAD OUR LIVES.

WAY WE LEAD OUR LIVES.

AND IN NEW YORK, OUR STUDIOS

AND IN NEW YORK, OUR STUDIOS ARE IN OUR HOUSE, SO UNTIL,

ARE IN OUR HOUSE, SO UNTIL, YOU KNOW, RECENTLY--OUR SON

YOU KNOW, RECENTLY--OUR SON STARTED GOING TO SCHOOL

STARTED GOING TO SCHOOL RECENTLY, BUT HE WAS IN AND OUT

RECENTLY, BUT HE WAS IN AND OUT OF OUR STUDIO ALL DAY TOO.

OF OUR STUDIO ALL DAY TOO.

AND IT'S--YOU KNOW, WE LOOK AT

AND IT'S--YOU KNOW, WE LOOK AT EACH OTHER'S WORK ALL DAY.

EACH OTHER'S WORK ALL DAY.

WE SORT OF GIVE EACH OTHER

WE SORT OF GIVE EACH OTHER FEEDBACK.

FEEDBACK.

WE NOTICE SOMETHING IN THE

WE NOTICE SOMETHING IN THE NEWSPAPER AND MENTION IT.

NEWSPAPER AND MENTION IT.

I MEAN, IT JUST--IT'S SORT OF,

I MEAN, IT JUST--IT'S SORT OF, I DON'T KNOW--IT'S BEEN--

I DON'T KNOW--IT'S BEEN-- IT'S GROWN ORGANICALLY, AND

IT'S GROWN ORGANICALLY, AND THAT'S--IT REALLY WORKS FOR US.

>> THERE IS A LOT OF FLUIDITY

>> THERE IS A LOT OF FLUIDITY BETWEEN US.

BETWEEN US.

THERE ARE MOMENTS WHERE HER WORK

THERE ARE MOMENTS WHERE HER WORK SEEPS THROUGH MY WORK AND

SEEPS THROUGH MY WORK AND IN AND OUT OF IT.

WE LOOK AT EACH OTHER'S WORK

WE LOOK AT EACH OTHER'S WORK MORE THAN ANYBODY ELSE'S WORK,

MORE THAN ANYBODY ELSE'S WORK, AND SO THAT HAS TO HAPPEN.

AND SO THAT HAS TO HAPPEN.

ALMOST ANYTHING IN THE

ALMOST ANYTHING IN THE ENVIRONMENT TENDS TO INFORM

ENVIRONMENT TENDS TO INFORM YOUR WORK, FOR ME, IN ONE WAY

YOUR WORK, FOR ME, IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

OR ANOTHER.

DIFFERENT STUDIOS HAVE DONE THAT

DIFFERENT STUDIOS HAVE DONE THAT FOR MY WORK AS WELL.

FOR MY WORK AS WELL.

DIFFERENT--DIFFERENT--

DIFFERENT--DIFFERENT-- LIVING IN DIFFERENT PLACES,

LIVING IN DIFFERENT PLACES, WHETHER IT'S A PLACE THAT HAS

WHETHER IT'S A PLACE THAT HAS A VIEW OR NO VIEW, IT ALL--

A VIEW OR NO VIEW, IT ALL-- KIND OF THAT SPACE AND

KIND OF THAT SPACE AND THE LIGHT, ALL OF THOSE ELEMENTS

THE LIGHT, ALL OF THOSE ELEMENTS AFFECT, FOR ME, A BIG PART OF

AFFECT, FOR ME, A BIG PART OF THE WAY THAT I END UP EVOLVING

THE WAY THAT I END UP EVOLVING WITH THE WORK.

THE THING THAT KEEPS ME GOING IS

THE THING THAT KEEPS ME GOING IS THE PAINTING,

THE PAINTING, AND IN GETTING LOST IN DOING

AND IN GETTING LOST IN DOING THAT, LANGUAGE IS INVENTED.

A WAY OF WORKING IN THE LANGUAGE

A WAY OF WORKING IN THE LANGUAGE HAS EVOLVED FOR THE LAST--

HAS EVOLVED FOR THE LAST-- THROUGH THE LAST TEN YEARS,

THROUGH THE LAST TEN YEARS, BUT THE PAINTINGS HAVE CHANGED

BUT THE PAINTINGS HAVE CHANGED EVERY YEAR THROUGH THAT, SLOWLY,

EVERY YEAR THROUGH THAT, SLOWLY, BECAUSE PAINTING IS SLOW.

BECAUSE PAINTING IS SLOW.

IN THE END, IT'S ABOUT TRYING TO

IN THE END, IT'S ABOUT TRYING TO MAKE THE PAINTING.

[soft electronic music]

[soft electronic music] >> I'M ALWAYS INTERESTED IN

>> I'M ALWAYS INTERESTED IN THINGS THAT WE DON'T CALL ART,

THINGS THAT WE DON'T CALL ART, AND I'D SAY, "WELL, WHY NOT?

AND I'D SAY, "WELL, WHY NOT?

I MEAN, WHY--YOU KNOW, WHAT

I MEAN, WHY--YOU KNOW, WHAT COULD I DO THIS TO MAKE IT ART?

COULD I DO THIS TO MAKE IT ART?

HOW COULD I CHANGE PEOPLE'S

HOW COULD I CHANGE PEOPLE'S MINDS?

MINDS?

[machine humming]

[machine humming] I AM MAKING ART.

I AM MAKING ART.

I AM MAKING ART.

I AM MAKING ART.

YOU KNOW, I LOVE IT.

YOU KNOW, I LOVE IT.

LIKE--LIKE, YOU KNOW, ALL OF

LIKE--LIKE, YOU KNOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN, BECAUSE I SAID

A SUDDEN, BECAUSE I SAID IT'S ART, SOMEBODY BELIEVES ME.

WHAT INTERESTS ME IN LIFE IS THE

WHAT INTERESTS ME IN LIFE IS THE ABSURDITY IN LIFE.

ABSURDITY IN LIFE.

[laughs]

[door closes]

[door closes] >> HEY, JOHN.

>> HEY, JOHN.

>> HI, MARIE.

>> HI, MARIE.

>> OKAY, I GOT THESE NEW ONES.

>> OKAY, I GOT THESE NEW ONES.

>> OH, GOOD.

>> OH, GOOD.

>> A COUPLE OF THEM...

>> A COUPLE OF THEM... >> GOOD.

>> GOOD.

>> THAT I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS

>> THAT I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT.

ABOUT.

I'LL PUT THEM UP.

>> ART MAKING IS ABOUT MAKING

>> ART MAKING IS ABOUT MAKING A CHOICE.

A CHOICE.

FOR ME, IT WAS LIKE YOU CHOOSE

FOR ME, IT WAS LIKE YOU CHOOSE ONE THING OVER ANOTHER:

ONE THING OVER ANOTHER: THIS COLOR OVER THAT COLOR

THIS COLOR OVER THAT COLOR OR THIS OBJECT OVER THAT OBJECT

OR THIS OBJECT OVER THAT OBJECT OR--YOU KNOW, ON AND ON AND ON.

OR--YOU KNOW, ON AND ON AND ON.

AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE.

AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE.

>> OKAY, SO THE QUESTIONS THAT

>> OKAY, SO THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAD ABOUT THESE ONES ARE,

I HAD ABOUT THESE ONES ARE, I KNOW THAT YOU WANT THESE

I KNOW THAT YOU WANT THESE FRAMED INDIVIDUALLY, BUT DO YOU

FRAMED INDIVIDUALLY, BUT DO YOU ALSO WANT THESE FRAMED

ALSO WANT THESE FRAMED INDIVIDUALLY, OR ARE THEY JUST

INDIVIDUALLY, OR ARE THEY JUST GONNA BE ONE PRINT THAT'S FRAMED

GONNA BE ONE PRINT THAT'S FRAMED IN ONE FRAME?

IN ONE FRAME?

>> THEY'LL BE IN A SINGLE FRAME.

>> THEY'LL BE IN A SINGLE FRAME.

>> OKAY.

>> OKAY.

>> WELL, MAYBE NOT NOW BUT

>> WELL, MAYBE NOT NOW BUT LATER, YOU KNOW, I HAVE OTHER

LATER, YOU KNOW, I HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS THAT WE COULD TALK

QUESTIONS THAT WE COULD TALK ABOUT, YEAH.

ABOUT, YEAH.

>> OKAY.

NO PROBLEM.

>> OKAY.

NO PROBLEM.

>> MY EMERGENCE IN THE ART

>> MY EMERGENCE IN THE ART WORLD: I WAS LINKED WITH

WORLD: I WAS LINKED WITH CONCEPTUAL ART, MINIMAL ART.

CONCEPTUAL ART, MINIMAL ART.

NEVER QUITE TOTALLY SUBSCRIBED

NEVER QUITE TOTALLY SUBSCRIBED TO IT; I THOUGHT IT WAS

TO IT; I THOUGHT IT WAS A LITTLE BORING.

A LITTLE BORING.

BUT THERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS

BUT THERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS I DIDN'T WANT TO SHED, AND ONE

I DIDN'T WANT TO SHED, AND ONE OF THEM WAS BEING TASTEFUL.

OF THEM WAS BEING TASTEFUL.

THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS I GAVE

THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS I GAVE UP PAINTING, BECAUSE IT WAS ALL

UP PAINTING, BECAUSE IT WAS ALL ABOUT BEING TASTEFUL: YOU KNOW,

ABOUT BEING TASTEFUL: YOU KNOW, THE RIGHT RED NEXT TO THE RIGHT

THE RIGHT RED NEXT TO THE RIGHT BLUE, AND YOU'RE VERY CAREFULLY

BLUE, AND YOU'RE VERY CAREFULLY MIXING THE COLORS.

MIXING THE COLORS.

I JUST DECIDED TO BE

I JUST DECIDED TO BE VERY SYSTEMATIC ABOUT IT

VERY SYSTEMATIC ABOUT IT AND USE THE COLOR WHEEL.

YEAH, I LIKE THE GUY--

YEAH, I LIKE THE GUY-- THE GREEN GUY.

THE GREEN GUY.

HE MIGHT BE TOO GREEN.

HE MIGHT BE TOO GREEN.

I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T KNOW.

>> OH, YEAH?

>> OH, YEAH?

>> I'M STILL THINKING ABOUT IT.

>> I'M STILL THINKING ABOUT IT.

>> YEAH, A LITTLE TOXIC GREEN.

>> YEAH, A LITTLE TOXIC GREEN.

>> YEAH.

YEAH.

>> YEAH.

YEAH.

I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T KNOW.

ANYTHING ELSE?

ANYTHING ELSE?

MY FATHER WAS CATHOLIC.

MY FATHER WAS CATHOLIC.

MY MOTHER WAS LUTHERAN.

MY MOTHER WAS LUTHERAN.

I WENT TO A METHODIST CHURCH.

I WENT TO A METHODIST CHURCH.

THAT WAS THE LOCAL CHURCH.

THAT WAS THE LOCAL CHURCH.

I CERTAINLY GOT A LOVE OF

I CERTAINLY GOT A LOVE OF LITERATURE, READING THE BIBLE,

LITERATURE, READING THE BIBLE, YOU KNOW, THE KING JAMES

YOU KNOW, THE KING JAMES VERSION.

VERSION.

AND I GOT A REAL SENSE OF

AND I GOT A REAL SENSE OF MORAL OBLIGATION, AND I THINK

MORAL OBLIGATION, AND I THINK THAT'S WHY I WAS A LATER STARTER

THAT'S WHY I WAS A LATER STARTER IN ART, BECAUSE I--

IN ART, BECAUSE I-- ART DIDN'T SEEM TO DO ANYBODY

ART DIDN'T SEEM TO DO ANYBODY ANY GOOD THAT I COULD SEE.

ANY GOOD THAT I COULD SEE.

IT DIDN'T HEAL BONES.

IT DIDN'T HEAL BONES.

IT DIDN'T HELP PEOPLE FIND

IT DIDN'T HELP PEOPLE FIND SHELTER OR WHATEVER.

SHELTER OR WHATEVER.

AND I WANTED TO BE A SOCIAL

AND I WANTED TO BE A SOCIAL WORKER, I THINK.

GOT TO SAY, I OWE IT TO

GOT TO SAY, I OWE IT TO MY SISTER.

MY SISTER.

I GOT MY DEGREE IN ART, AND SHE

I GOT MY DEGREE IN ART, AND SHE SAID, "WELL, HOW ARE YOU GONNA

SAID, "WELL, HOW ARE YOU GONNA SUPPORT YOURSELF?"

SUPPORT YOURSELF?"

[chuckles]

[chuckles] SO I GOT A TEACHING CREDENTIAL.

SO I GOT A TEACHING CREDENTIAL.

TEACHING IS ABOUT COMMUNICATION.

TEACHING IS ABOUT COMMUNICATION.

LECTURING DOESN'T DO IT.

LECTURING DOESN'T DO IT.

YOU HAVE TO SEE THE LIGHT IN THE

YOU HAVE TO SEE THE LIGHT IN THE STUDENTS' EYES THAT THEY GET IT.

STUDENTS' EYES THAT THEY GET IT.

AND IF YOU DON'T SEE THE LIGHT,

AND IF YOU DON'T SEE THE LIGHT, THEN YOU TRY ANOTHER APPROACH

THEN YOU TRY ANOTHER APPROACH AND ANOTHER APPROACH

AND ANOTHER APPROACH UNTIL THEY GET IT.

UNTIL THEY GET IT.

AND THEN I REALIZED THAT ART WAS

AND THEN I REALIZED THAT ART WAS ABOUT COMMUNICATION.

ABOUT COMMUNICATION.

I WAS LEARNING HOW TO

I WAS LEARNING HOW TO COMMUNICATE BY TEACHING.

COMMUNICATE BY TEACHING.

AND--AND THEN THE ART INFECTED

AND--AND THEN THE ART INFECTED MY CLASSROOM TEACHING, TRYING TO

MY CLASSROOM TEACHING, TRYING TO BE INVENTIVE THERE.

BE INVENTIVE THERE.

AND IN EFFECT, I WAS SAYING,

AND IN EFFECT, I WAS SAYING, "THE ART I DO IS WHAT I'M

"THE ART I DO IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IN THE CLASSROOM,

TALKING ABOUT IN THE CLASSROOM, AND VICE VERSA."

AND VICE VERSA."

YOU KNOW, THEY'RE

YOU KNOW, THEY'RE INTERCHANGEABLE.

INTERCHANGEABLE.

ONE THING--I WAS TRYING TO TEACH

ONE THING--I WAS TRYING TO TEACH STUDENTS HOW TO LOOK.

STUDENTS HOW TO LOOK.

I SAID, "IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT

I SAID, "IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT TWO THINGS, DON'T LOOK AT THEM;

TWO THINGS, DON'T LOOK AT THEM; LOOK BETWEEN THEM...

LOOK BETWEEN THEM... BECAUSE THERE'S THAT STUFF TOO.

BECAUSE THERE'S THAT STUFF TOO.

THAT'S--THIS IS IMPORTANT."

THAT'S--THIS IS IMPORTANT."

BUT WE PRIORITIZE.

BUT WE PRIORITIZE.

WE--YOU KNOW, IF I'M LOOKING AT

WE--YOU KNOW, IF I'M LOOKING AT THIS WALL OVER HERE, IT'S NORMAL

THIS WALL OVER HERE, IT'S NORMAL TO LOOK AT SOMETHING PINNED

TO LOOK AT SOMETHING PINNED TO THE WALL.

TO THE WALL.

I'M NOT LOOKING AT THE SPACE

I'M NOT LOOKING AT THE SPACE BETWEEN THOSE TWO THINGS.

BETWEEN THOSE TWO THINGS.

BUT THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

WORDS ARE JUST A WAY WE

WORDS ARE JUST A WAY WE COMMUNICATE, IMAGES ARE A WAY

COMMUNICATE, IMAGES ARE A WAY WE COMMUNICATE, AND I COULDN'T

WE COMMUNICATE, AND I COULDN'T FIGURE OUT WHY THEY HAD TO BE

FIGURE OUT WHY THEY HAD TO BE IN DIFFERENT BASKETS.

I THINK IN MY MULTIPLE-IMAGE

I THINK IN MY MULTIPLE-IMAGE PIECES, I PROBABLY HAVE THIS

PIECES, I PROBABLY HAVE THIS IDEA THAT THERE'S A WORD BEHIND

IDEA THAT THERE'S A WORD BEHIND THEM.

THEM.

I'M PROBABLY BUILDING LIKE

I'M PROBABLY BUILDING LIKE A WRITER OR A POET BUILDS

A WRITER OR A POET BUILDS WITH WORDS.

>> JOHN CAME TO MY STUDIO AT

>> JOHN CAME TO MY STUDIO AT UCLA, AND WE HAD A MEETING, AND

UCLA, AND WE HAD A MEETING, AND HE SAID, "I HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY

HE SAID, "I HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU," WHICH WAS VERY

FOR YOU," WHICH WAS VERY EXCITING, I MEAN, JUST TO HEAR

EXCITING, I MEAN, JUST TO HEAR THAT, RIGHT?

THAT, RIGHT?

LIKE, I WAS LIKE--

LIKE, I WAS LIKE-- YOU KNOW, I KNEW SOME OF MY

YOU KNOW, I KNEW SOME OF MY CLASSMATES WERE MAYBE WORKING

CLASSMATES WERE MAYBE WORKING FOR HIM, DOING A LITTLE PAINTING

FOR HIM, DOING A LITTLE PAINTING OR WORKING DOING A LITTLE

OR WORKING DOING A LITTLE PHOTOSHOP FOR HIM OR SOMETHING

PHOTOSHOP FOR HIM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

LIKE THAT.

AND I SAID, "WOW, OKAY,

AND I SAID, "WOW, OKAY, WHAT IS IT?"

WHAT IS IT?"

AND HE'S LIKE, "WELL, I JUST GOT

AND HE'S LIKE, "WELL, I JUST GOT THIS DOG, AND I NEED SOMEONE

THIS DOG, AND I NEED SOMEONE TO WALK HIM."

TO WALK HIM."

[laughing]

[laughing] AND I SAID, "OKAY."

AND I SAID, "OKAY."

I'M LIKE, "LET ME THINK

I'M LIKE, "LET ME THINK ABOUT IT."

ABOUT IT."

HE KNEW I WAS HAVING A LITTLE

HE KNEW I WAS HAVING A LITTLE TROUBLE AT SCHOOL, YOU KNOW,

TROUBLE AT SCHOOL, YOU KNOW, LIKE, WITH MY WORK AND GOING

LIKE, WITH MY WORK AND GOING THROUGH A LITTLE GRAD SCHOOL

THROUGH A LITTLE GRAD SCHOOL CRISIS IN TERMS OF IDEAS AND

CRISIS IN TERMS OF IDEAS AND SO ON.

SO ON.

SO HE SAID, "OKAY, EVERY MONDAY,

SO HE SAID, "OKAY, EVERY MONDAY, YOU HAVE TO BRING WORK TO ME."

YOU HAVE TO BRING WORK TO ME."

AND SO WE BEGAN.

I THINK HE TAUGHT ME TO BE HUMAN

I THINK HE TAUGHT ME TO BE HUMAN WHEN IT COMES TO THE WORK.

WHEN IT COMES TO THE WORK.

YOU KNOW, THERE IS SOMETHING

YOU KNOW, THERE IS SOMETHING VERY HUMBLE ABOUT THE WAY

VERY HUMBLE ABOUT THE WAY HE WORKS.

HE WORKS.

HE COMES HERE EVERY MORNING

HE COMES HERE EVERY MORNING AT THE SAME TIME.

AT THE SAME TIME.

HE SHOWS YOU HOW, YOU KNOW,

HE SHOWS YOU HOW, YOU KNOW, IT'S A LONG PROCESS.

IT'S A LONG PROCESS.

I MEAN, IT'S A LIFETIME

I MEAN, IT'S A LIFETIME COMMITMENT TO THE WORK.

>> IN THE EARLY YEARS, I WOULD

>> IN THE EARLY YEARS, I WOULD JUST MAKE WORK, AND IT WOULD BE

JUST MAKE WORK, AND IT WOULD BE SHIPPED TO THE GALLERY.

SHIPPED TO THE GALLERY.

AND THEN ONE WOULD SPEND THREE

AND THEN ONE WOULD SPEND THREE OR FOUR DAYS MOVING WORKS AROUND

OR FOUR DAYS MOVING WORKS AROUND AND SEEING HOW ONE SPOKE TO THE

AND SEEING HOW ONE SPOKE TO THE OTHER, HOW THE SIZE OF ONE WORK

OTHER, HOW THE SIZE OF ONE WORK WOULD RELATE TO THE SIZE OF THE

WOULD RELATE TO THE SIZE OF THE OTHER, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE

OTHER, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE PROBLEMS THAT WOULD MAKE HANGING

PROBLEMS THAT WOULD MAKE HANGING ONE WORK NEXT TO ANOTHER LESS

ONE WORK NEXT TO ANOTHER LESS GOOD THAN ANOTHER HANGING.

GOOD THAN ANOTHER HANGING.

[chuckles]

[chuckles] AND I WOULD ALWAYS SHIP MORE

AND I WOULD ALWAYS SHIP MORE WORK THAN I NEEDED BECAUSE YOU

WORK THAN I NEEDED BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO

NEVER KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO NEED.

NEED.

I DID A RETROSPECTIVE SHOW

I DID A RETROSPECTIVE SHOW THAT STARTED AT THE MUSEUM OF

THAT STARTED AT THE MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY ART IN LOS ANGELES.

CONTEMPORARY ART IN LOS ANGELES.

AND I SAW HOW THEY HAD A MODEL

AND I SAW HOW THEY HAD A MODEL AND WORKED WITH EVERYTHING,

AND WORKED WITH EVERYTHING, AND I SAID, "WELL, WHY DON'T

AND I SAID, "WELL, WHY DON'T I DO THAT?"

THIS IS A MODEL OF THE

THIS IS A MODEL OF THE HAUS LANGE BY MIES VAN DER ROHE

HAUS LANGE BY MIES VAN DER ROHE IN KREFELD, GERMANY.

IN KREFELD, GERMANY.

ONE OF THE PRINCIPLE THINGS I'M

ONE OF THE PRINCIPLE THINGS I'M DOING WITH THE MIES VAN DER ROHE

DOING WITH THE MIES VAN DER ROHE HAUS IS TO USE HIS MATERIALS IN

HAUS IS TO USE HIS MATERIALS IN A WAY THAT WOULD BE MORE THAN HE

A WAY THAT WOULD BE MORE THAN HE WOULD HAVE USED THEM.

WOULD HAVE USED THEM.

AND THE PRINCIPLE MATERIAL HERE

AND THE PRINCIPLE MATERIAL HERE IS BRICK, WHICH HE WASN'T

IS BRICK, WHICH HE WASN'T PARTICULARLY FOND OF.

PARTICULARLY FOND OF.

CURIOUSLY, HE DID WORK IN HIS

CURIOUSLY, HE DID WORK IN HIS FATHER'S BRICKYARD, SO HE DID

FATHER'S BRICKYARD, SO HE DID HAVE SOME FAMILIARITY WITH THE

HAVE SOME FAMILIARITY WITH THE MATERIAL.

MATERIAL.

ALL OF THE OUTSIDE WALLS, WHERE

ALL OF THE OUTSIDE WALLS, WHERE THERE'S A WINDOW, THEY'RE

THERE'S A WINDOW, THEY'RE COVERED UP WITH FAKE BRICK.

COVERED UP WITH FAKE BRICK.

SO YOU WILL SEE NO WINDOWS

SO YOU WILL SEE NO WINDOWS WHATSOEVER.

AND MIES VAN DER ROHE WAS VERY

AND MIES VAN DER ROHE WAS VERY CAREFUL IN FRAMING THE VIEWS OF

CAREFUL IN FRAMING THE VIEWS OF THE GARDEN.

WHERE THERE IS A WINDOW IN

WHERE THERE IS A WINDOW IN THE WALLS, THERE WILL BE

THE WALLS, THERE WILL BE SUBSTITUTED VIEWS OF THE

SUBSTITUTED VIEWS OF THE PACIFIC OCEAN AND LANDSCAPE

PACIFIC OCEAN AND LANDSCAPE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

BUT IN FRONT OF EACH WINDOW,

BUT IN FRONT OF EACH WINDOW, THERE'LL BE ONE MIES VAN DER

THERE'LL BE ONE MIES VAN DER ROHE CHAIR WHERE YOU CAN SIT AND

ROHE CHAIR WHERE YOU CAN SIT AND CONTEMPLATE THE VIEW.

CONTEMPLATE THE VIEW.

THEN IN ONE WALL, I'M HAVING

THEN IN ONE WALL, I'M HAVING MANUFACTURED AS AN ADDITION

MANUFACTURED AS AN ADDITION A COUCH IN THE SHAPE OF AN EAR,

A COUCH IN THE SHAPE OF AN EAR, FLANKED LEFT AND RIGHT BY TWO

FLANKED LEFT AND RIGHT BY TWO UPTURNED NOSES AS SCONCES

UPTURNED NOSES AS SCONCES SO THAT YOU'LL EITHER HAVE LIGHT

SO THAT YOU'LL EITHER HAVE LIGHT OR FLOWERS COMING OUT OF THE

OR FLOWERS COMING OUT OF THE NOSTRILS.

NOSTRILS.

SO I FIGURED IT'S EVERYTHING

SO I FIGURED IT'S EVERYTHING THAT MIES VAN DER ROHE WOULD

THAT MIES VAN DER ROHE WOULD HATE.

AND RATHER THAN GLORIFY

AND RATHER THAN GLORIFY MIES VAN DER ROHE--

MIES VAN DER ROHE-- HE'S HAD ENOUGH GLORIFICATION--

HE'S HAD ENOUGH GLORIFICATION-- I JUST THOUGHT I WOULD, YOU

I JUST THOUGHT I WOULD, YOU KNOW, POKE A LITTLE FUN OF HIM,

KNOW, POKE A LITTLE FUN OF HIM, DO REVERSE MIES VAN DER ROHE.

ACTUALLY, I STARTED USING STILLS

ACTUALLY, I STARTED USING STILLS FROM MOVIES NOT BECAUSE THEY

FROM MOVIES NOT BECAUSE THEY WERE FROM THE MOVIES;

WERE FROM THE MOVIES; I COULD GET THE PICTURES

I COULD GET THE PICTURES CHEAPLY.

FOR ME, IT'S USING THIS

FOR ME, IT'S USING THIS DATA BANK OF IMAGES

DATA BANK OF IMAGES PEOPLE CARRY AROUND IN

PEOPLE CARRY AROUND IN THEIR HEAD, AND THEN PLAYING AND

THEIR HEAD, AND THEN PLAYING AND REARRANGING THOSE IMAGES

REARRANGING THOSE IMAGES FOR THEM.

A LOT OF PHOTOGRAPHS I HAD

A LOT OF PHOTOGRAPHS I HAD BOUGHT WOULD BE FROM NEWSPAPERS.

BOUGHT WOULD BE FROM NEWSPAPERS.

AND THEY WOULD BE LOCAL

AND THEY WOULD BE LOCAL CELEBRITIES, WHATEVER:

CELEBRITIES, WHATEVER: THE MAJOR, THE FIRE CHIEF,

THE MAJOR, THE FIRE CHIEF, SOME DIGNITARY.

SOME DIGNITARY.

AND A LOT THEM, THEY WOULD BE

AND A LOT THEM, THEY WOULD BE POINTING TO THINGS, SHAKING

POINTING TO THINGS, SHAKING HANDS, SMILING AT THE--

HANDS, SMILING AT THE-- YOU KNOW, IT'S A PHOTO OP,

YOU KNOW, IT'S A PHOTO OP, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THING.

YOU KNOW, KIND OF THING.

STANDING WITH THE PRESIDENT;

STANDING WITH THE PRESIDENT; THAT SORT OF THING.

THAT SORT OF THING.

AND I WAS ATTRACTED BUT REPULSED

AND I WAS ATTRACTED BUT REPULSED BY THESE, AND I REALIZED WHY

BY THESE, AND I REALIZED WHY I WAS REPULSED BY THEM WAS THAT

I WAS REPULSED BY THEM WAS THAT I WAS THERE, ISOLATED IN MY

I WAS THERE, ISOLATED IN MY STUDIO, AND THESE PEOPLE WERE

STUDIO, AND THESE PEOPLE WERE MAKING DECISIONS THAT WOULD

MAKING DECISIONS THAT WOULD PROBABLY AFFECT ME, AND,

PROBABLY AFFECT ME, AND, YOU KNOW, I WAS NOT DOING

YOU KNOW, I WAS NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE

AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS I HAD WITH ART IN THE

ARGUMENTS I HAD WITH ART IN THE FIRST PLACES, THAT, YOU KNOW,

FIRST PLACES, THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT DOING ANYTHING.

I WAS USING THESE PRICE

I WAS USING THESE PRICE STICKERS, AND I JUST PUT THEM

STICKERS, AND I JUST PUT THEM OVER THE FACES, AND I SAID,

OVER THE FACES, AND I SAID, "WOW."

"WOW."

THE PHRASE I KEEP USING IS,

THE PHRASE I KEEP USING IS, IT LEVELED THE PLAYING FIELD.

IT LEVELED THE PLAYING FIELD.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, THEY HAD NO

ALL OF A SUDDEN, THEY HAD NO POWER ON ME AND REALLY SAW THEM

POWER ON ME AND REALLY SAW THEM FOR WHAT THEY WERE.

FOR WHAT THEY WERE.

THEY WERE REPLACEABLE EVEN

THEY WERE REPLACEABLE EVEN THOUGH THE PERSON CHANGES.

I THINK MY IDEA IS THIS:

I THINK MY IDEA IS THIS: NOT SO MUCH STRUCTURE

NOT SO MUCH STRUCTURE THAT IT'S INHIBITING--I MEAN,

THAT IT'S INHIBITING--I MEAN, THAT'S THERE'S NO WIGGLE ROOM--

THAT'S THERE'S NO WIGGLE ROOM-- BUT NOT SO LOOSE THAT

BUT NOT SO LOOSE THAT IT COULD BE ANYTHING.

IT COULD BE ANYTHING.

I GUESS IT'S LIKE A CORRAL.

I GUESS IT'S LIKE A CORRAL.

IT'S A CORRAL AROUND YOUR IDEA:

IT'S A CORRAL AROUND YOUR IDEA: THAT YOU CAN MOVE

THAT YOU CAN MOVE BUT NOT TOO MUCH.

BUT NOT TOO MUCH.

AND IT'S THAT LIMITED MOVEMENT

AND IT'S THAT LIMITED MOVEMENT THAT PROMOTES CREATIVITY.

I'VE BEEN WORKING OVER THE YEARS

I'VE BEEN WORKING OVER THE YEARS WITH VARIOUS BODY PARTS.

WITH VARIOUS BODY PARTS.

I THINK I STARTED OUT WITH

I THINK I STARTED OUT WITH NOSES.

NOSES.

AND THEN EARS.

AND THEN EARS.

THEN NOSES AND EARS.

AND NOW I'M DOING FOREHEADS

AND NOW I'M DOING FOREHEADS WITH FURROWS

WITH FURROWS AND EYEBROWS.

AND EYEBROWS.

YOU KNOW, YOU ALWAYS COME BACK

YOU KNOW, YOU ALWAYS COME BACK TO THE SAME IDEA BUT FROM

TO THE SAME IDEA BUT FROM A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.

YEAH, WE'RE GONNA DO DOG

YEAH, WE'RE GONNA DO DOG EYEBROWS NEXT.

EYEBROWS NEXT.

[laughs]

[soft electronic music]

[soft electronic music] >> IN THIS VIDEO, I'M FACING THE

>> IN THIS VIDEO, I'M FACING THE NATURE, AND BEHIND IS THE HUMAN

NATURE, AND BEHIND IS THE HUMAN WATCHING ME.

WATCHING ME.

MY ARM IS TOTALLY OUTSTRETCHED

MY ARM IS TOTALLY OUTSTRETCHED ONTO THE NATURE.

ONTO THE NATURE.

MY DESIRE IS ABANDONED,

MY DESIRE IS ABANDONED, AND MY WILL IS ABANDONED.

AND MY WILL IS ABANDONED.

WITH THAT DURATION OF

WITH THAT DURATION OF PERFORMANCE, I EXPERIENCE

PERFORMANCE, I EXPERIENCE A CERTAIN TRANSCENDENCE

A CERTAIN TRANSCENDENCE OF MYSELF, AND HOPEFULLY

OF MYSELF, AND HOPEFULLY AUDIENCE DOES TOO.

I WAS, IN THE BEGINNING,

I WAS, IN THE BEGINNING, THINKING OF DOING KIND OF

THINKING OF DOING KIND OF A WALKING PERFORMANCE, BUT

A WALKING PERFORMANCE, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE

I DIDN'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE AND HOW.

AND HOW.

SO WE JUST WALKED AROUND THE

SO WE JUST WALKED AROUND THE CITY MORE THAN AN HOUR,

CITY MORE THAN AN HOUR, JUST WALKING AND WALKING

JUST WALKING AND WALKING AND WALKING, AND THEN I ARRIVED

AND WALKING, AND THEN I ARRIVED TO SHIBUYA AREA, WHERE SO MANY

TO SHIBUYA AREA, WHERE SO MANY PEOPLE WERE PASSING BY.

PEOPLE WERE PASSING BY.

AND I WAS TOTALLY OVERWHELMED

AND I WAS TOTALLY OVERWHELMED BY THE CROWDS AROUND ME,

BY THE CROWDS AROUND ME, AND MY BODY WAS FULL OF ENERGY

AND MY BODY WAS FULL OF ENERGY ACCUMULATED BY THIS WALKING

ACCUMULATED BY THIS WALKING AND THINKING OF PEOPLE.

AND THINKING OF PEOPLE.

SO AT THAT MOMENT, I AWARE THE--

SO AT THAT MOMENT, I AWARE THE-- THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN MY BODY

THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN MY BODY AND THE CROWD IN THE STREET,

AND THE CROWD IN THE STREET, AND I HAD TO STOP THERE.

AND I HAD TO STOP THERE.

I JUST COULDN'T WALK ANYMORE.

I JUST COULDN'T WALK ANYMORE.

I HAD TO STOP THERE.

MY FIRST VIDEO USING MY OWN BODY

MY FIRST VIDEO USING MY OWN BODY AS A SYMBOLIC NEEDLE WAS

AS A SYMBOLIC NEEDLE WAS IN TOKYO, '99.

THAT IS LIKE--ALMOST LIKE

THAT IS LIKE--ALMOST LIKE PUTTING, INSERTING, A NEEDLE

PUTTING, INSERTING, A NEEDLE ONTO THE EARTH, IN A WAY.

ONTO THE EARTH, IN A WAY.

AND THAT'S MORE ABOUT MY ENERGY

AND THAT'S MORE ABOUT MY ENERGY I HAD AT THE TIME.

MY SYSTEM IS VERY MUCH ROOTED TO

MY SYSTEM IS VERY MUCH ROOTED TO THE PRACTICE OF SEWING, THAT

THE PRACTICE OF SEWING, THAT USES THE NEEDLE ONTO FABRIC.

I CAME TO A CONCLUSION THAT

I CAME TO A CONCLUSION THAT I CAN BE A NEEDLE WOMAN.

I CAN BE A NEEDLE WOMAN.

[laughs]

I'M USING THE PEDESTRIANS

I'M USING THE PEDESTRIANS PASSING MOMENT AS SLOW MOTION,

PASSING MOMENT AS SLOW MOTION, AS IF THEY ARE WEAVED THROUGH

AS IF THEY ARE WEAVED THROUGH MY BODY AS A NEEDLE.

IT'S NOT ABOUT SHOWING MY

IT'S NOT ABOUT SHOWING MY IDENTITY, SO IT SHOULD BE FROM

IDENTITY, SO IT SHOULD BE FROM BEHIND, NOT TO SHOW MY FACE.

THE CAMERA LENS IS MY EYES, THAT

THE CAMERA LENS IS MY EYES, THAT SEES MY BACK, THAT SEES THE

SEES MY BACK, THAT SEES THE OTHER PEOPLE IN FRONT OF ME.

OTHER PEOPLE IN FRONT OF ME.

SO THERE IS THREE DIFFERENT

SO THERE IS THREE DIFFERENT NEEDLE WOMAN

NEEDLE WOMAN PERFORMANCES.

MY WORK, IN A WAY, HAS NEVER

MY WORK, IN A WAY, HAS NEVER BEEN COMPLETED AS A SINGLE

BEEN COMPLETED AS A SINGLE PIECE, I THINK.

PIECE, I THINK.

I'VE THOUGHT ALWAYS MY WORK IS

I'VE THOUGHT ALWAYS MY WORK IS IN TRANSITION,

IN TRANSITION, ALWAYS IN PROCESS.

ALWAYS IN PROCESS.

I CAN EVER REALLY FINALIZE,

I CAN EVER REALLY FINALIZE, "THIS IS COMPLETED,"

"THIS IS COMPLETED," OR, "THIS IS FINISHED."

OR, "THIS IS FINISHED."

WHENEVER I HAVE A NEW QUESTION,

WHENEVER I HAVE A NEW QUESTION, I WOULD ALWAYS LIKE TO CONTINUE

I WOULD ALWAYS LIKE TO CONTINUE AND SEE THROUGH DIFFERENT

AND SEE THROUGH DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

IN KOREA, WE LIVED IN A HOUSE

IN KOREA, WE LIVED IN A HOUSE WITH A STRAW ROOF AND VERY COLD.

WITH A STRAW ROOF AND VERY COLD.

IT WAS REALLY, REALLY COLD.

IT WAS REALLY, REALLY COLD.

AND EVEN THOUGH WE HAD A STOVE

AND EVEN THOUGH WE HAD A STOVE IN THE ROOM, WHEN I WOKE UP IN

IN THE ROOM, WHEN I WOKE UP IN THE MORNING, THERE WAS FROST ALL

THE MORNING, THERE WAS FROST ALL OVER ON THE WALL AROUND THE

OVER ON THE WALL AROUND THE ROOM, AND I'D BEEN SCRATCHING

ROOM, AND I'D BEEN SCRATCHING ON TOP OF IT, MAKING, LIKE,

ON TOP OF IT, MAKING, LIKE, LINES AND DRAWINGS ON IT.

LINES AND DRAWINGS ON IT.

MAYBE THAT'S MY FIRST

MAYBE THAT'S MY FIRST DRAWING PIECE.

DRAWING PIECE.

[chuckles]

[chuckles] I ALWAYS DISCOVER ARTISTIC

I ALWAYS DISCOVER ARTISTIC QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS FROM OUR

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS FROM OUR DAILY LIFE ACTIVITIES.

DAILY LIFE ACTIVITIES.

WAS ONE OF THEM.

WAS ONE OF THEM.

IN KOREAN MEANS

IN KOREAN MEANS "BUNDLE."

"BUNDLE."

USUALLY WE CARRY IT WHENEVER WE

USUALLY WE CARRY IT WHENEVER WE HAVE PRECIOUS THINGS TO KEEP.

HAVE PRECIOUS THINGS TO KEEP.

BOTTARI

BOTTARI AS A THREE-DIMENSIONAL

AS A THREE-DIMENSIONAL SCULPTURE, IT WAS AT P.S.1

SCULPTURE, IT WAS AT P.S.1 STUDIO, WHEN I LOOKED BACK

STUDIO, WHEN I LOOKED BACK BOTTARI, WHICH

BOTTARI, WHICH I MADE BUT DIDN'T REALIZE

I MADE BUT DIDN'T REALIZE BEFORE, BECAUSE I'D BEEN ALWAYS

BEFORE, BECAUSE I'D BEEN ALWAYS TO STACK

TO STACK AND TO KEEP FABRICS IN IT,

AND TO KEEP FABRICS IN IT, LOOKED TOTALLY

LOOKED TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM THE ONES BEFORE.

BOTTARI

BOTTARI IN DIFFERENT FORMALISTIC WAY OF

IN DIFFERENT FORMALISTIC WAY OF SCULPTURE, I STARTED THOSE FOR

SCULPTURE, I STARTED THOSE FOR SOME TIME, LIKE A COUPLE OF

SOME TIME, LIKE A COUPLE OF YEARS.

YEARS.

THEN WHEN I RETURNED TO KOREA,

THEN WHEN I RETURNED TO KOREA, IS OUR

IS OUR REALITY, I STARTED SEEING THEM

REALITY, I STARTED SEEING THEM IN A DIFFERENT WAY,

IN A DIFFERENT WAY, WHICH IS MORE REALISTIC WAY:

WHICH IS MORE REALISTIC WAY: THAT IS MORE SOCIAL-,

THAT IS MORE SOCIAL-, CULTURAL-RELATED OBJECT RATHER

CULTURAL-RELATED OBJECT RATHER THAN FORMALISTIC SCULPTURE.

I DIDN'T REALIZE UNTIL I DID

I DIDN'T REALIZE UNTIL I DID CITIES ON THE MOVE:

CITIES ON THE MOVE: PERFORMANCE

PERFORMANCE ARE

ARE VERY MUCH ROOTED TO MY FAMILY

VERY MUCH ROOTED TO MY FAMILY HISTORY.

HISTORY.

WE ALWAYS ON THE ROAD.

WE ALWAYS ON THE ROAD.

MY FATHER, BECAUSE OF THE KOREAN

MY FATHER, BECAUSE OF THE KOREAN WAR, HE HAD TO GO TO MILITARY,

WAR, HE HAD TO GO TO MILITARY, AND THEN HE STAYED IN MILITARY

AND THEN HE STAYED IN MILITARY SERVICE.

SERVICE.

WE ALWAYS HAD TO MOVE.

WE ALWAYS HAD TO MOVE.

SO IT'S PART OF OUR FAMILY

SO IT'S PART OF OUR FAMILY HISTORY THAT HAD A LITTLE BIT

HISTORY THAT HAD A LITTLE BIT OF A NOMADIC LIFE.

INSTALLATION

INSTALLATION WITH TIBETAN MONK CHANT...

THAT EXAMINE THE AUDIENCE'S BODY

THAT EXAMINE THE AUDIENCE'S BODY AS A NEEDLE THAT WEAVES THROUGH

AS A NEEDLE THAT WEAVES THROUGH THE LAUNDRY FIELD.

I USE USED BEDCOVERS FROM NEWLY

I USE USED BEDCOVERS FROM NEWLY MARRIED COUPLES THAT HAS ALL

MARRIED COUPLES THAT HAS ALL THE SYMBOLS AND EMBROIDERIES

THE SYMBOLS AND EMBROIDERIES OF ALL WISHES WE WANT TO CARRY

OF ALL WISHES WE WANT TO CARRY IN OUR LIVES,

IN OUR LIVES, SUCH AS LONG LIFE, LOVE, PEACE,

SUCH AS LONG LIFE, LOVE, PEACE, AND FERTILITY.

[faint chanted music playing]

[faint chanted music playing] I WAS INVITED TO CREATE A NEW SET-SPECIFIC PROJECT

A NEW SET-SPECIFIC PROJECT IN BRUSSELS.

IN BRUSSELS.

AS A PERFECT INSTALLATION FOR

AS A PERFECT INSTALLATION FOR THAT SPACE, I THOUGHT OF

THAT SPACE, I THOUGHT OF LOTUS: ZONE OF ZERO.

LOTUS: ZONE OF ZERO.

THE SOUND YOU HEAR IN THIS PIECE

THE SOUND YOU HEAR IN THIS PIECE IS A MIXTURE OF TIBETAN MONK

IS A MIXTURE OF TIBETAN MONK CHANT, GREGORIAN CHANT,

CHANT, GREGORIAN CHANT, AND ISLAMIC CHANT.

AND ISLAMIC CHANT.

IS A CENTRAL

IS A CENTRAL LOCATION WHERE THE AUDIENCE

LOCATION WHERE THE AUDIENCE PERCEIVES THE THREE DIFFERENT

PERCEIVES THE THREE DIFFERENT RELIGIOUS CHANTS MERGED

RELIGIOUS CHANTS MERGED TOGETHER.

TOGETHER.

[merged chanted music playing]

[merged chanted music playing] I USED BUDDHIST LOTUS-SHAPE LANTERNS IN IT.

LANTERNS IN IT.

THERE IS A TRAIN STATION

THERE IS A TRAIN STATION CONNECTED TO THE SPACE,

CONNECTED TO THE SPACE, SO MANY PEOPLE WALKING BY,

SO MANY PEOPLE WALKING BY, YOU KNOW, THROUGH EVERY DAY,

YOU KNOW, THROUGH EVERY DAY, IN THE MORNING AND COMING BACK

IN THE MORNING AND COMING BACK IN THE EVENING.

IN THE EVENING.

SO IT'S LIKE A REPEATED CEREMONY

SO IT'S LIKE A REPEATED CEREMONY OF PEACE FOR THEM.

I SAW THE CRYSTAL PALACE A FEW

I SAW THE CRYSTAL PALACE A FEW YEARS BEFORE.

YEARS BEFORE.

AND I WAS REALLY STRUCK BY THE

AND I WAS REALLY STRUCK BY THE BEAUTY OF THAT STRUCTURE,

BEAUTY OF THAT STRUCTURE, AND I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING.

AND I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING.

AND I STARTED THINKING:

AND I STARTED THINKING: THIS SPACE SHOULD BE EMPTY,

THIS SPACE SHOULD BE EMPTY, AND USE IT AS SPACE ITSELF

AND USE IT AS SPACE ITSELF BY NOT REALLY CREATING SOMETHING

BY NOT REALLY CREATING SOMETHING PHYSICAL INSIDE, BUT PUTTING

PHYSICAL INSIDE, BUT PUTTING DIFFRACTION GRATING FILM

DIFFRACTION GRATING FILM THAT DEFUSES THE LIGHT INTO

THAT DEFUSES THE LIGHT INTO RAINBOW SPECTRUM,

RAINBOW SPECTRUM, AND THEN PUT MIRROR ALL OVER THE

AND THEN PUT MIRROR ALL OVER THE FLOOR THAT REFLECTS THE WHOLE

FLOOR THAT REFLECTS THE WHOLE STRUCTURE OF THE CRYSTAL PALACE.

STRUCTURE OF THE CRYSTAL PALACE.

PEOPLE ARE INVITED TO THIS SPACE

PEOPLE ARE INVITED TO THIS SPACE THAT IS FILLED WITH MY BREATHING

THAT IS FILLED WITH MY BREATHING SOUND IN IT.

SOUND IN IT.

BREATHING IN AND OUT IS ANOTHER

BREATHING IN AND OUT IS ANOTHER WAY OF WEAVING AND ANOTHER WAY

WAY OF WEAVING AND ANOTHER WAY OF SEWING.

OF SEWING.

I SEE THE CRYSTAL PALACE PIECE

I SEE THE CRYSTAL PALACE PIECE OF LIGHT AND SOUND

OF LIGHT AND SOUND AND REFLECTION.

AND REFLECTION.

I ALWAYS TRY TO FIND

I ALWAYS TRY TO FIND A TRANSCENDENT MOMENT IN SPACE

A TRANSCENDENT MOMENT IN SPACE WITHIN MY WORK.

WITHIN MY WORK.

MY INTENTION IS TO REACH TO THE

MY INTENTION IS TO REACH TO THE TOTALITY OF OUR LIFE AND IN ART.

TOTALITY OF OUR LIFE AND IN ART.

SO THAT'S ALWAYS ONE REASON

SO THAT'S ALWAYS ONE REASON MY PRACTICE IS QUITE BROAD

MY PRACTICE IS QUITE BROAD AND DIVERSE:

AND DIVERSE: TO REACH THAT COMPLEXITY

TO REACH THAT COMPLEXITY AND COMPREHENSIVENESS.

AND COMPREHENSIVENESS.

I DON'T KNOW IN THE END

I DON'T KNOW IN THE END WHERE I COULD REACH,

WHERE I COULD REACH, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO GET TO

BUT I WOULD LIKE TO GET TO THAT COMPREHENSIVE TOTALITY

THAT COMPREHENSIVE TOTALITY IN MY WORK.

IN MY WORK.

[the sound of one person

[the sound of one person inhaling and exhaling playing]

[soft electronic music]

[soft electronic music] >> IF YOU CAN DRAW THESE SIMPLE

>> IF YOU CAN DRAW THESE SIMPLE FORMS--THE BALL, CONE, CUBE,

FORMS--THE BALL, CONE, CUBE, AND CYLINDER--YOU CAN DRAW

AND CYLINDER--YOU CAN DRAW A REAL PICTURE THE VERY FIRST

A REAL PICTURE THE VERY FIRST TIME YOU TRY.

TIME YOU TRY.

>> I HAD AN UNCLE--HIS NAME WAS

>> I HAD AN UNCLE--HIS NAME WAS JON GNAGY--WHO HAD A TELEVISION

JON GNAGY--WHO HAD A TELEVISION LEARN TO DRAW.

LEARN TO DRAW.

>> TODAY WE'RE GOING TO DRAW

>> TODAY WE'RE GOING TO DRAW A SNOW SCENE, IN WHICH WE MAKE

A SNOW SCENE, IN WHICH WE MAKE THE PAPER WORK FOR US.

THE PAPER WORK FOR US.

WE DON'T HAVE TO DO TOO MUCH

WE DON'T HAVE TO DO TOO MUCH WORK OURSELVES.

WORK OURSELVES.

>> AND HE WOULD DESIGN THESE

>> AND HE WOULD DESIGN THESE DRAWINGS THAT HE COULD THEN

DRAWINGS THAT HE COULD THEN TEACH OTHER PEOPLE HOW DO TO.

TEACH OTHER PEOPLE HOW DO TO.

>> JUST PUT IN THOSE RAGGED

>> JUST PUT IN THOSE RAGGED STROKES, ALWAYS REMEMBERING THAT

STROKES, ALWAYS REMEMBERING THAT A PINE TREE IS A ROUGH CONE

A PINE TREE IS A ROUGH CONE FORM.

FORM.

THAT POST, YOU KNOW,

THAT POST, YOU KNOW, IS A CYLINDER FORM,

IS A CYLINDER FORM, SO YOU SHADE IT DOWN THE LEFT,

SO YOU SHADE IT DOWN THE LEFT, LIKE THIS, TO REALLY MAKE IT

LIKE THIS, TO REALLY MAKE IT ROUND OUT.

ROUND OUT.

REMEMBER, OUR LIGHT'S COMING

REMEMBER, OUR LIGHT'S COMING FROM THE OTHER--UPPER RIGHT.

FROM THE OTHER--UPPER RIGHT.

YES, IT USED TO BE THAT THE

YES, IT USED TO BE THAT THE MAILBOX WAS THE CHIEF POINT OF

MAILBOX WAS THE CHIEF POINT OF CONTACT, BUT, YOU KNOW,

CONTACT, BUT, YOU KNOW, NOWADAYS, A LOT OF THESE FOLKS

NOWADAYS, A LOT OF THESE FOLKS HAVE TELEVISION.

HAVE TELEVISION.

>> YOU KNOW, I KNEW HIM, AND

>> YOU KNOW, I KNEW HIM, AND I JUST GOT THE FEELING THAT IT

I JUST GOT THE FEELING THAT IT NEVER OCCURRED TO HIM TO COME UP

NEVER OCCURRED TO HIM TO COME UP WITH A PAINTING OR DRAWING THAT

WITH A PAINTING OR DRAWING THAT HE COULDN'T TELL SOMEONE ELSE

HE COULDN'T TELL SOMEONE ELSE STEP-BY-STEP HOW TO DO.

STEP-BY-STEP HOW TO DO.

SO I WAS JUST A CHILD,

SO I WAS JUST A CHILD, BUT THAT INFLUENCED ME.

BUT THAT INFLUENCED ME.

WHENEVER I DESIGN A PROJECT,

WHENEVER I DESIGN A PROJECT, IT'S IN MY HEAD WHILE I'M

IT'S IN MY HEAD WHILE I'M DESIGNING IT THAT I WOULD BE

DESIGNING IT THAT I WOULD BE ABLE TO SHOW SOMEONE ELSE HOW TO

ABLE TO SHOW SOMEONE ELSE HOW TO DO IT.

DO IT.

THIS LOOKS A LITTLE BARE UP

THIS LOOKS A LITTLE BARE UP HERE, BUT FOR NOW, IT'S OKAY,

HERE, BUT FOR NOW, IT'S OKAY, I GUESS.

I GUESS.

THE DRAWINGS THAT I SENT

THE DRAWINGS THAT I SENT TO SAO PAULO WERE DONE IN 1989,

TO SAO PAULO WERE DONE IN 1989, AND THEY WERE CREATED FROM

AND THEY WERE CREATED FROM TEMPLATES THAT I MADE IN 1988.

TEMPLATES THAT I MADE IN 1988.

THE STIMULUS FOR THIS PARTICULAR

THE STIMULUS FOR THIS PARTICULAR DRAWINGS

DRAWINGS WERE TRIGGERED BY AN INTEREST

WERE TRIGGERED BY AN INTEREST IN HERALDRY AND THE WAY THAT

IN HERALDRY AND THE WAY THAT FAMILIES COME UP WITH IMAGES TO

FAMILIES COME UP WITH IMAGES TO REPRESENT THEIR FAMILY.

REPRESENT THEIR FAMILY.

AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT

AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT SYMBOLS, AND I WAS THINKING,

SYMBOLS, AND I WAS THINKING, "WELL, OKAY, WE TYPICALLY CREATE

"WELL, OKAY, WE TYPICALLY CREATE SINGULAR SYMBOLS SO THAT WE CAN

SINGULAR SYMBOLS SO THAT WE CAN ALL FEEL WE BELONG."

ALL FEEL WE BELONG."

LIKE, WE LOOK AT THE AMERICAN

LIKE, WE LOOK AT THE AMERICAN FLAG, AND WE SAY, "OH, WE'RE ALL

FLAG, AND WE SAY, "OH, WE'RE ALL AMERICANS."

AMERICANS."

IT OCCURRED TO ME THAT IF ONE

IT OCCURRED TO ME THAT IF ONE USED A CERTAIN KIND OF LOGIC

USED A CERTAIN KIND OF LOGIC AND REALLY WORKED AT IT,

AND REALLY WORKED AT IT, ONE COULD COME UP WITH A SYSTEM

ONE COULD COME UP WITH A SYSTEM THAT WOULD PRODUCE A SHAPE FOR

THAT WOULD PRODUCE A SHAPE FOR EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET.

EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET.

THE IDEA OF TRYING TO PICTURE

THE IDEA OF TRYING TO PICTURE A BILLION OR A MILLION

A BILLION OR A MILLION IS SOMETHING WE THINK WE CAN DO.

IS SOMETHING WE THINK WE CAN DO.

BUT WE CAN'T.

SAY YOU'RE A GENERAL IN THE

SAY YOU'RE A GENERAL IN THE ARMY, AND YOU HAVE TO SEND

ARMY, AND YOU HAVE TO SEND ALL THESE TROOPS OUT TO HAVE

ALL THESE TROOPS OUT TO HAVE A BATTLE, AND YOU KNOW ONLY

A BATTLE, AND YOU KNOW ONLY SO MANY ARE GOING TO COME BACK,

SO MANY ARE GOING TO COME BACK, AND IT'S GONNA BREAK YOUR HEART

AND IT'S GONNA BREAK YOUR HEART AND MAKE YOU SICK UNLESS YOU

AND MAKE YOU SICK UNLESS YOU START THINKING OF THEM AS

START THINKING OF THEM AS ALL ALIKE IN SOME WAY: JUST

ALL ALIKE IN SOME WAY: JUST SOLDIERS, JUST UNITS, YOU KNOW.

SOLDIERS, JUST UNITS, YOU KNOW.

AND, I MEAN, THAT'S AN EXTREME

AND, I MEAN, THAT'S AN EXTREME EXAMPLE, BUT THERE'S TIMES WHEN

EXAMPLE, BUT THERE'S TIMES WHEN YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT PEOPLE

YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT PEOPLE IN CATEGORIES, OR YOU'LL GO

IN CATEGORIES, OR YOU'LL GO CRAZY.

CRAZY.

BUT THAT CAN GO WRONG ALSO, AND

BUT THAT CAN GO WRONG ALSO, AND IT'S SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO WATCH

IT'S SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO WATCH AND THINK ABOUT.

AND THINK ABOUT.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT IS,

A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT IS, WHEN YOU GET, LIKE, A WHOLE

WHEN YOU GET, LIKE, A WHOLE BUNCH OF THE SAME WIDTH

BUNCH OF THE SAME WIDTH AND THE SAME...

AND THE SAME... >> MM-HMM.

>> MM-HMM.

>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST ANOTHER

>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST ANOTHER THING TO...

THING TO... >> WAIT, YOU MEAN LIKE DIFFERENT

>> WAIT, YOU MEAN LIKE DIFFERENT SIZES?

SIZES?

>> LIKE, YOU DON'T WANT TWO THE

>> LIKE, YOU DON'T WANT TWO THE SAME SIZE TOGETHER.

SAME SIZE TOGETHER.

YOU DON'T WANT TWO THE SAME

YOU DON'T WANT TWO THE SAME WIDTH TOGETHER.

WIDTH TOGETHER.

YOU DON'T WANT TWO...

YOU DON'T WANT TWO... >> YEAH.

>> YEAH.

>> I MEAN, IT'S SO FUNNY.

>> I MEAN, IT'S SO FUNNY.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT'S

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT'S IN THE FRAME, YOU KNOW?

IN THE FRAME, YOU KNOW?

[both chuckle]

SOMETIMES YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING

SOMETIMES YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, BUT IF YOU CAN,

ABOUT IT, BUT IF YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, SHIFT IT SO THAT--

YOU KNOW, SHIFT IT SO THAT-- >> OKAY, SO I'LL

>> OKAY, SO I'LL DOUBLE-CHECK THAT.

DOUBLE-CHECK THAT.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S JUST

>> YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S JUST ONE THING.

IN MY YOUTH, I WORKED IN

IN MY YOUTH, I WORKED IN FACTORIES QUITE A LOT.

FACTORIES QUITE A LOT.

I MEAN, I WORKED IN INDUSTRIAL

I MEAN, I WORKED IN INDUSTRIAL KITCHENS QUITE A LOT.

KITCHENS QUITE A LOT.

AND MY PARENTS WORKED IN

AND MY PARENTS WORKED IN FACTORIES.

I FOUND MYSELF WANTING TO TRY TO

I FOUND MYSELF WANTING TO TRY TO WORK IN QUANTITIES AND MAKE

WORK IN QUANTITIES AND MAKE THINGS THAT WERE SINGULAR AND

THINGS THAT WERE SINGULAR AND UNIQUE AT THE SAME TIME.

WE PROBABLY DEFINE UNIQUENESS BY

WE PROBABLY DEFINE UNIQUENESS BY THINKING, "OH, IT'S NOT

THINKING, "OH, IT'S NOT MASS-PRODUCED."

MASS-PRODUCED."

I FELT I WANTED TO RESOLVE THAT

I FELT I WANTED TO RESOLVE THAT ON A HIGHER LEVEL.

ON A HIGHER LEVEL.

BUT THERE IS, OF COURSE, THE

BUT THERE IS, OF COURSE, THE DRAMA OF THOUSANDS OF THINGS.

DRAMA OF THOUSANDS OF THINGS.

IT CAN BE NIGHTMARISH, OR IT CAN

IT CAN BE NIGHTMARISH, OR IT CAN BE WONDERFUL FEELING OF

BE WONDERFUL FEELING OF ABUNDANCE, AND IT CAN GO BACK

ABUNDANCE, AND IT CAN GO BACK AND FORTH.

AND FORTH.

AND THERE'S A LOT OF

AND THERE'S A LOT OF EMOTIONALITY WHEN YOU SEE

EMOTIONALITY WHEN YOU SEE THOUSANDS OF THINGS.

THOUSANDS OF THINGS.

SOME PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO RUN

SOME PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO RUN OUT OF THE ROOM WHEN THERE'S

OUT OF THE ROOM WHEN THERE'S TOO MANY OBJECTS TO LOOK AT,

TOO MANY OBJECTS TO LOOK AT, AND OTHER PEOPLE WOULD STAND

AND OTHER PEOPLE WOULD STAND THERE IN AWE.

THERE'S ALSO A KIND OF SCIENCE

THERE'S ALSO A KIND OF SCIENCE FICTION ELEMENT IN HERE WHERE--

FICTION ELEMENT IN HERE WHERE-- OF, LIKE, SOMETHING THAT SORT OF

OF, LIKE, SOMETHING THAT SORT OF TAKES OVER AND GROWS.

WHEN I'M JUGGLING IDEAS OF WHAT

WHEN I'M JUGGLING IDEAS OF WHAT I'M GONNA DO NEXT, ONE OF THE

I'M GONNA DO NEXT, ONE OF THE CONSIDERATIONS THAT'S MAJOR

CONSIDERATIONS THAT'S MAJOR ALWAYS IN MY MIND IS, "DOES IT

ALWAYS IN MY MIND IS, "DOES IT MAKE A GOOD STORY?"

MAKE A GOOD STORY?"

I PUT IT IN MY MIND THAT IT

I PUT IT IN MY MIND THAT IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO WORK

WOULD BE INTERESTING TO WORK WITH PEOPLE I HAD NEVER MET,

WITH PEOPLE I HAD NEVER MET, THAT I ONLY COMMUNICATED WITH

THAT I ONLY COMMUNICATED WITH OVER EMAIL OR TELEPHONE.

OVER EMAIL OR TELEPHONE.

LIKE, YOU GO IN TO SEE THE

LIKE, YOU GO IN TO SEE THE EXHIBIT.

EXHIBIT.

WELL, IT COULD JUST BE LOOKED AT

WELL, IT COULD JUST BE LOOKED AT AS A BUNCH OF LITTLE DECORATIVE

AS A BUNCH OF LITTLE DECORATIVE OBJECTS.

OBJECTS.

BUT THERE'S A STORY

BUT THERE'S A STORY THAT GOES WITH IT.

THAT GOES WITH IT.

YOU CAN TELL IT RATHER QUICKLY.

YOU CAN TELL IT RATHER QUICKLY.

I WANTED IT TO BE: "OH, THE

I WANTED IT TO BE: "OH, THE ARTIST WENT ON THE INTERNET.

ARTIST WENT ON THE INTERNET.

THE ARTIST FOUND FOUR PEOPLE

THE ARTIST FOUND FOUR PEOPLE FROM THE STATE OF MAINE WHO ALL

FROM THE STATE OF MAINE WHO ALL OF WHOM WORKED FROM THEIR HOMES

OF WHOM WORKED FROM THEIR HOMES AND ALL OF WHOM MADE SHAPES,

AND ALL OF WHOM MADE SHAPES, AND HE NEVER MET THEM.

AND HE NEVER MET THEM.

IT WAS SORT OF ABOUT THE--

IT WAS SORT OF ABOUT THE-- THE EXOTIC, FARAWAY PLACE,

THE EXOTIC, FARAWAY PLACE, I MEAN, WHICH, TO ME--

I MEAN, WHICH, TO ME-- I'VE ONLY BEEN TO MAINE ONCE IN

I'VE ONLY BEEN TO MAINE ONCE IN MY LIFE, AND IT SEEMS VERY

MY LIFE, AND IT SEEMS VERY EXOTIC TO ME, MAINE.

EXOTIC TO ME, MAINE.

[low, deep rumbling]

[low, deep rumbling] AND I STARTED BECOMING

AND I STARTED BECOMING INTERESTED IN PEOPLE WHO HAD

INTERESTED IN PEOPLE WHO HAD BUSINESSES IN THEIR HOMES AND

BUSINESSES IN THEIR HOMES AND ALSO KIND OF VERY INDEPENDENT.

ALSO KIND OF VERY INDEPENDENT.

AND KIND OF LIKE THE CONTRARY TO

AND KIND OF LIKE THE CONTRARY TO OUR OBSESSION WITH GLOBALISM

OUR OBSESSION WITH GLOBALISM RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, IS THAT

RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, IS THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE LOCALLY ALL

THERE ARE PEOPLE LOCALLY ALL AROUND US WORKING IN THEIR

AROUND US WORKING IN THEIR HOMES, MAKING THOUSANDS OF

HOMES, MAKING THOUSANDS OF THINGS.

THINGS.

I LOOKED ON THE WEB.

I LOOKED ON THE WEB.

I LOOKED UP "MAINE," YOU KNOW,

I LOOKED UP "MAINE," YOU KNOW, ON--GOOGLED, "MAINE, CRAFT,

ON--GOOGLED, "MAINE, CRAFT, HOME," YOU KNOW, ALL THE WORDS

HOME," YOU KNOW, ALL THE WORDS THAT WOULD LEAD ME TO PEOPLE WHO

THAT WOULD LEAD ME TO PEOPLE WHO WORKED AT HOME AND MADE CRAFT

WORKED AT HOME AND MADE CRAFT IN MAINE.

IN MAINE.

AND I HAD TO SIFT THROUGH

AND I HAD TO SIFT THROUGH HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS AND--

HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS AND-- AND SLOWLY REALIZED, "THIS IS

AND SLOWLY REALIZED, "THIS IS A HUGE THING IN MAINE: YOU KNOW,

A HUGE THING IN MAINE: YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WORKING AT HOME MAKING

PEOPLE WORKING AT HOME MAKING CRAFTS AND THEN SELLING THEM ON

CRAFTS AND THEN SELLING THEM ON THE INTERNET.

THE INTERNET.

I CHOSE A NARROW GROUP OF THEM

I CHOSE A NARROW GROUP OF THEM WHO BASICALLY DID SHAPES,

WHO BASICALLY DID SHAPES, LIKE RUBBER STAMPS,

LIKE RUBBER STAMPS, ORNAMENTS,

ORNAMENTS, SILHOUETTES,

SILHOUETTES, AND COOKIE CUTTERS.

AND COOKIE CUTTERS.

AND THEN I WROTE THEM LENGTHY

AND THEN I WROTE THEM LENGTHY EMAILS ABOUT MY WORK AND WHAT

EMAILS ABOUT MY WORK AND WHAT MY INTERESTS WERE AND WHY

MY INTERESTS WERE AND WHY I WANTED DO TO THIS, I MEAN,

I WANTED DO TO THIS, I MEAN, EMAILS THAT--MUCH TOO LONG,

EMAILS THAT--MUCH TOO LONG, I'M SURE.

I'M SURE.

>> I HAD NO IDEA WHO HE WAS.

>> I HAD NO IDEA WHO HE WAS.

MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS THAT HE

MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS THAT HE MIGHT BE A KID CLAIMING

MIGHT BE A KID CLAIMING TO BE AN ARTIST.

TO BE AN ARTIST.

OF COURSE, YOU DON'T EVER KNOW

OF COURSE, YOU DON'T EVER KNOW ON AN EMAIL.

ON AN EMAIL.

AND THEN AFTER I INVESTIGATED

AND THEN AFTER I INVESTIGATED AND WENT TO HIS WEBSITE,

AND WENT TO HIS WEBSITE, I FOUND OUT THAT HE WAS QUITE

I FOUND OUT THAT HE WAS QUITE AN ACCOMPLISHED CONTEMPORARY

AN ACCOMPLISHED CONTEMPORARY ARTIST.

[metal clicks softly]

[metal clicks softly] >> THE COOKIE CUTTER PEOPLE?

>> THE COOKIE CUTTER PEOPLE?

I DON'T KNOW--

I DON'T KNOW-- I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY--

I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY-- I NEVER WATCHED HOW THEY DID

I NEVER WATCHED HOW THEY DID WHAT THEY DID, SO THEY--

WHAT THEY DID, SO THEY-- IF THEY INVENTED A NEW--

IF THEY INVENTED A NEW-- A WAY THEY HADN'T DONE BEFORE--

A WAY THEY HADN'T DONE BEFORE-- I DO KNOW THAT THEY USED TO MAKE

I DO KNOW THAT THEY USED TO MAKE SNOWFLAKES, AND THERE'S NO WAY

SNOWFLAKES, AND THERE'S NO WAY THIS SHAPE IS MORE COMPLICATED

THIS SHAPE IS MORE COMPLICATED THAN THE SNOWFLAKES

THAN THE SNOWFLAKES THEY WERE MAKING.

THEY WERE MAKING.

[laughs]

[laughs] >> SOME OF HIS SHAPES WERE VERY

>> SOME OF HIS SHAPES WERE VERY DIFFICULT.

DIFFICULT.

IT WAS CHALLENGING.

IT WAS CHALLENGING.

[chuckles]

[chuckles] AND ACTUALLY, I WOULD SAY, AFTER

AND ACTUALLY, I WOULD SAY, AFTER MAKING THE SHAPES FOR ALLAN,

MAKING THE SHAPES FOR ALLAN, THAT I'M IMPROVED.

THAT I'M IMPROVED.

I MEAN, I'M BETTER AT WHAT I DO

I MEAN, I'M BETTER AT WHAT I DO BECAUSE--BECAUSE OF THAT

BECAUSE--BECAUSE OF THAT PROJECT, BECAUSE I ACTUALLY

PROJECT, BECAUSE I ACTUALLY LEARNED HOW TO DO SOME THINGS

LEARNED HOW TO DO SOME THINGS BETTER.

>> I'VE BEEN DOING

>> I'VE BEEN DOING COMBINATORIAL PROJECTS FOR

COMBINATORIAL PROJECTS FOR 40 YEARS.

40 YEARS.

ALL MY PROJECTS HAVE HAD

ALL MY PROJECTS HAVE HAD COMBINATORIAL ELEMENTS, WHERE

COMBINATORIAL ELEMENTS, WHERE I'M TAKING A VOCABULARY OF PARTS

I'M TAKING A VOCABULARY OF PARTS AND PUTTING THEM TOGETHER TO

AND PUTTING THEM TOGETHER TO MAKE SOMETHING ELSE, YOU KNOW,

MAKE SOMETHING ELSE, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS VERY COMPUTERLIKE,

WHICH IS VERY COMPUTERLIKE, BUT THERE WAS NEVER ANY COMPUTER

BUT THERE WAS NEVER ANY COMPUTER INVOLVED.

INVOLVED.

THE SHAPES

THE SHAPES DRAWINGS

DRAWINGS INDIVIDUAL WORKS

INDIVIDUAL WORKS PROJECT, NEITHER OF WHICH

PROJECT, NEITHER OF WHICH INVOLVED ANY COMPUTERS.

INVOLVED ANY COMPUTERS.

THE DRAWINGS EVEN LOOK LIKE

THE DRAWINGS EVEN LOOK LIKE THE SHAPES THAT I'M WORKING ON

THE SHAPES THAT I'M WORKING ON NOW, BUT THEY WERE ALL DONE BY

NOW, BUT THEY WERE ALL DONE BY HAND WITH PENCIL.

HAND WITH PENCIL.

AND I DIDN'T HAVE A COMPUTER AT

AND I DIDN'T HAVE A COMPUTER AT THAT TIME.

THAT TIME.

IN THOSE DAYS, I WAS USING

IN THOSE DAYS, I WAS USING PHOTOCOPIERS AND STENCILS AND

PHOTOCOPIERS AND STENCILS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THINGS LIKE THAT.

WHEREAS IF I HAD TO DO THIS WITH

WHEREAS IF I HAD TO DO THIS WITH STENCILS, IT WOULD'VE TAKEN ME

STENCILS, IT WOULD'VE TAKEN ME AN HOUR, BUT WHAT I CAN DO NOW

AN HOUR, BUT WHAT I CAN DO NOW IS JUST REACH UP HERE

IS JUST REACH UP HERE AND COPY ONE SHAPE, LIKE THAT,

AND COPY ONE SHAPE, LIKE THAT, AND THEN GO OVER HERE

AND THEN GO OVER HERE AND COPY ANOTHER ONE,

AND COPY ANOTHER ONE, AND THEN I CAN PUT THOSE

AND THEN I CAN PUT THOSE TOGETHER.

TOGETHER.

AND THEN COPY A BOTTOM,

AND THEN COPY A BOTTOM, AND PUT THAT TOGETHER.

AND PUT THAT TOGETHER.

AND THEN COPY, YOU KNOW,

AND THEN COPY, YOU KNOW, A BOTTOM THAT GOES ON THE RIGHT,

A BOTTOM THAT GOES ON THE RIGHT, AND WE'LL PUT THAT TOGETHER.

AND WE'LL PUT THAT TOGETHER.

AND THEN I HAVE A SHAPE,

AND THEN I HAVE A SHAPE, AND IT HAS ITS OWN I.D.

NUMBER.

AND IT HAS ITS OWN I.D.

NUMBER.

I MEAN, THIS JUST DOESN'T TAKE

I MEAN, THIS JUST DOESN'T TAKE VERY LONG.

VERY LONG.

SO WITH THESE FOUR SHAPES, I CAN

SO WITH THESE FOUR SHAPES, I CAN MAKE AROUND 200 OR SO MILLION

MAKE AROUND 200 OR SO MILLION UNIQUE SHAPES.

UNIQUE SHAPES.

BUT THERE'S ANOTHER SYSTEM WHERE

BUT THERE'S ANOTHER SYSTEM WHERE I USE SIX SHAPES,

I USE SIX SHAPES, AND THEN THERE'S THESE THINGS

AND THEN THERE'S THESE THINGS I CALL NECKS, LIKE YOUR NECK.

I CALL NECKS, LIKE YOUR NECK.

LIKE, THIS IS A BODY WITH

LIKE, THIS IS A BODY WITH A NECK, AND THEN THE TOP PART

A NECK, AND THEN THE TOP PART IS A HEAD.

IS A HEAD.

SO THEN ONCE YOU START USING

SO THEN ONCE YOU START USING THIS SYSTEM, YOU CAN PRODUCE

THIS SYSTEM, YOU CAN PRODUCE 60 BILLION SHAPES.

60 BILLION SHAPES.

ONCE I GOT ALL THE SHAPES MADE,

ONCE I GOT ALL THE SHAPES MADE, I STARTED COMBINING THEM INTO

I STARTED COMBINING THEM INTO TOPS AND BOTTOMS.

TOPS AND BOTTOMS.

THEN INSTEAD OF MAKING FOUR

THEN INSTEAD OF MAKING FOUR PARTS, I WOULD ONLY HAVE TO PUT

PARTS, I WOULD ONLY HAVE TO PUT TOGETHER TWO AT A TIME.

TOGETHER TWO AT A TIME.

THEN I PUT THEM IN WHAT I CALL

THEN I PUT THEM IN WHAT I CALL ARRAYS OF 144.

ARRAYS OF 144.

SO I CAN COPY THIS ARRAY AND

SO I CAN COPY THIS ARRAY AND COMBINE IT WITH THIS ARRAY.

COMBINE IT WITH THIS ARRAY.

THEN I'M MAKING 144 SHAPES

THEN I'M MAKING 144 SHAPES AT ONCE, AND THAT'S CALLED

AT ONCE, AND THAT'S CALLED A COLLECTION.

A COLLECTION.

THAT'S HOW I PRODUCE THEM:

THAT'S HOW I PRODUCE THEM: IN COLLECTIONS OF 144.

IN COLLECTIONS OF 144.

THE NUMBER 144, THERE'S AN IRONY

THE NUMBER 144, THERE'S AN IRONY TO IT 'CAUSE IT'S CONSIDERED

TO IT 'CAUSE IT'S CONSIDERED A GROSS IN INDUSTRY.

A GROSS IN INDUSTRY.

THIS IS ONE OF THE COLLECTIONS

THIS IS ONE OF THE COLLECTIONS THAT WAS SENT TO HORACE VARNUM

THAT WAS SENT TO HORACE VARNUM TO DO THE WOODEN SHAPES.

TO DO THE WOODEN SHAPES.

>> EVERY ONE IS ABSOLUTELY

>> EVERY ONE IS ABSOLUTELY UNIQUE.

UNIQUE.

EVERY ONE IS DIFFERENT.

SOME, YOU SIT THERE,

SOME, YOU SIT THERE, AND YOU WORK WITH THEM.

AND YOU WORK WITH THEM.

YOU CUT WITH THEM.

YOU CUT WITH THEM.

AND IT'S ALMOST LIKE SITTING IN

AND IT'S ALMOST LIKE SITTING IN A PSYCHOLOGIST'S OFFICE, AND YOU

A PSYCHOLOGIST'S OFFICE, AND YOU SEE SHAPES: THIS IS A WOLF HEAD.

SEE SHAPES: THIS IS A WOLF HEAD.

THIS IS AN ANGEL.

THIS IS AN ANGEL.

THIS IS--

THIS IS-- SO IT'S FUN.

SO IT'S FUN.

[machine whirring]

SEE, IT'S SOFT ENOUGH THAT IT

SEE, IT'S SOFT ENOUGH THAT IT WON'T CAUSE ANY DAMAGE, UNLESS

WON'T CAUSE ANY DAMAGE, UNLESS YOU'RE DOING IT FOR AN HOUR

YOU'RE DOING IT FOR AN HOUR OR TWO.

IT'S WHAT THIEVES DO TO TAKE OFF

IT'S WHAT THIEVES DO TO TAKE OFF THEIR FINGERPRINTS.

[laughs]

>> THE IDEA OF MAKING AN OBJECT

>> THE IDEA OF MAKING AN OBJECT FOR EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD

FOR EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD IS ABSURD.

IS ABSURD.

YEAH, OF COURSE.

YEAH, OF COURSE.

I MEAN, I COULDN'T POSSIBLY

I MEAN, I COULDN'T POSSIBLY DO IT.

DO IT.

BUT IT WOULD BE NICE IF EVERYONE

BUT IT WOULD BE NICE IF EVERYONE IN THE WORLD--DOESN'T THIS SOUND

IN THE WORLD--DOESN'T THIS SOUND LIKE A CHILD TALKING--

LIKE A CHILD TALKING-- IF EVERYONE IN THE WORLD COULD

IF EVERYONE IN THE WORLD COULD AGREE ON A SYMBOLIC SYSTEM,

AGREE ON A SYMBOLIC SYSTEM, YOU KNOW?

YOU KNOW?

AND IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET,

AND IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET, BUT IT'S--I THINK IT'S--

BUT IT'S--I THINK IT'S-- IT MIGHT, YOU KNOW,

IT MIGHT, YOU KNOW, ONE DAY.

[soft electronic music]

[soft electronic music] CaptionMax

CaptionMax www.captionmax.com

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