Stories

IF YOU WANT TO DO IT AGAIN, I WILL.

OH, HI, I'M JOHN WATERS.

I LOVE COLLECTING ART BECAUSE IT MAKES OTHER PEOPLE INSANE.

I FIRST REALIZED THIS DELIGHTFUL FACT AS AN 8-YEAR-OLD KID

WHEN I BOUGHT THIS MASS-PRODUCED MOREAUX PRINT

AT THE BALTIMORE MUSEUM OF ART GIFT SHOP,

AND TOOK IT HOME AND HUNG IT ON MY BEDROOM WALL.

"THAT'S AWFUL,"

YELLED MY UNSOPHISTICATED CHILDHOOD PLAYMATES.

"IT'S UGLY, IT'S STUPID," THEY TAUNTED.

AND I SUDDENLY DISCOVERED THE WONDERFUL, EXHILARATING

POWER AND AGGRESSION OF CONTEMPORARY ART.

I LIKE ART THAT AT FIRST MAKES YOU MAD.

GOOD ART PROVOKES AND INSPIRES, IT BAFFLES AND EVEN SHOCKS US --

SOMETIMES WITH ITS BEAUTY,

SOMETIMES WITH ITS AMAZING UGLINESS.

AS A FILMMAKER, I'VE WRITTEN STORIES

ABOUT THE FILTHIEST PEOPLE ALIVE,

SERIAL KILLER MOMS, AND LESBIAN POLITICAL CORRUPTION.

NOT EVERYBODY LIKES THE STORIES I TELL.

BUT IF THEY HAVE A STRONG REACTION,

EVEN IF SOME PEOPLE HATE THEM, I GUESS I'M DOING MY JOB.

VISUAL ART CAN ALSO TELL TALES IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.

IN THIS PROGRAM, YOU'LL MEET FOUR VERY DIFFERENT ARTISTS --

TRENTON DOYLE HANCOCK, KIKI SMITH,

DO-HO SUH, AND KARA WALKER.

YOU CAN FIND A CONNECTION TO A STORY

IN EACH OF THESE ARTISTS' WORK.

WHETHER AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL, FICTIONAL,

SATIRICAL, OR HISTORICAL.

AND NOW, WELL, LET'S GET ON WITH THE SHOW.

Walker: WELL, THE CYCLORAMA, YOU KNOW

WAS A MAJOR PHENOMENON IN THE 19th CENTURY.

BUT IT'S JUST BEFORE CINEMA, YOU KNOW, AND IT'S IN THE ROUND,

SO YOU ENTER INTO THIS ROTUNDA, IT'S LIT.

IT'S LIKE THE PEAK

OF THE PAINTER'S CREATIVE ENTERPRISE,

YOU KNOW, TO MAKE THE PAINTING SURROUND THE VIEWER

AND TO CREATE THE ILLUSION OF DEPTH AND OF SPACE,

AND TO LURE THE VIEWER INTO THE FEELING

OF BEING A PART OF THE SCENE.

Walker: MOST OF MY WORK IS --

THE ILLUSION IS THAT IT'S ABOUT PAST EVENTS,

THE ILLUSION IS THAT IT'S SIMPLY ABOUT

A PARTICULAR POINT IN HISTORY AND NOTHING ELSE.

AND IT'S REALLY PART OF THE RUSE THAT I TEND TO LIKE

TO APPROACH THE COMPLEXITIES OF MY OWN LIFE

BY DISTANCING MYSELF AND FINDING A PARALLEL

IN SOMETHING PRETTIER AND MORE GENTEEL,

LIKE THAT PICTURE OF THE OLD SOUTH

THAT'S A STEREOTYPE.

I STARTED TO READ THE BOOK "GONE WITH THE WIND"

AND WAS THRILLED

HOW, YOU KNOW, ENGROSSING THAT STORY WAS

AND HOW GROTESQUE IT WAS AT THE SAME TIME.

THE ROMANCE OF IT, THE STORYTELLING,

IT WAS SO RICH AND EPIC.

AND THAT WAS WHAT I HADN'T EXPECTED.

I HADN'T EXPECTED TO BE TITILLATED IN THE WAY THAT,

YOU KNOW, STORIES LIKE THAT ARE MEANT TO TITILLATE.

IT WAS SO MUCH FODDER

FOR THE WORK THAT I WANTED TO DO.

THE DISTRESSING PART WAS ALWAYS BEING

CAUGHT UP IN THE VOICE OF THE HEROINE, SCARLETT O'HARA.

SCARLETT, IN HER DESPERATION IS, YOU KNOW, DIGGING UP

DRIED UP ROOTS AND TUBERS DOWN BY THE SLAVES' QUARTERS

AND SHE'S OVERCOME BY "A NIGGERY SCENT"

AND VOMITS.

AND IT'S SCENES LIKE THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, MIGHT GO WASHED OVER

BY THE SORT OF VAST EPIC STRUCTURE OF THE STORY,

BUT THAT IS AN EPIC MOMENT.

A LOT OF MY WORK HAS BEEN ABOUT THE UNEXPECTED...

KIND OF WANTING TO BE THE HEROINE AND YET

WANTING TO KILL THE HEROINE AT THE SAME TIME.

AND THAT KIND OF DILEMMA,

THAT PUSH AND PULL, IS THE UNDERLYING TURBULENCE

THAT I BRING TO EACH OF THE PIECES THAT I MAKE.

THE SILHOUETTE LENDS ITSELF TO AVOIDANCE OF THE SUBJECT,

YOU KNOW, NOT BEING ABLE TO LOOK AT IT DIRECTLY.

MY EARLIEST MEMORY OF WANTING TO BE AN ARTIST,

I WAS THREE,

I WAS SITTING ON MY DAD'S LAP,

AND HE WAS DRAWING IN HIS STUDIO,

WHICH WAS THE GARAGE OF OUR HOUSE IN STOCKTON, CALIFORNIA.

AND I REMEMBER THINKING TO MYSELF

THAT I WANTED TO DO WHAT HE DID.

AND HE USED TO GIVE ME CHALK TO DRAW ON THE SIDEWALK,

AND, YOU KNOW, HE WOULD DOCUMENT MY CREATIONS.

WHEN WE MOVED FROM CALIFORNIA TO GEORGIA,

I KNOW THAT I WAS HAVING NIGHTMARES

ABOUT MOVING TO THE SOUTH.

YOU KNOW, THE SOUTH WAS ALREADY,

IT'S A PLACE LOADED WITH, LIKE I SAID, MYTHOLOGY

BUT ALSO A REALITY OF, YOU KNOW, VICIOUSNESS.

AND IT WAS JUST SUCH A FRIGHTENING PROSPECT

TO BE SORT OF BORDERLINE BETWEEN CHILD AND TEENAGER

AND GOING INTO AN ENVIRONMENT

WHERE BLACK KIDS ARE BEING TARGETED.

STONE MOUNTAIN, GEORGIA,

THIS IS WHERE I DID MOST OF MY GROWING UP.

IT'S LIKE A MOUNT RUSHMORE TYPE OF THING

OF THE CONFEDERATE HEROES.

THAT IS PRETTY SIGNIFICANT.

STONE MOUNTAIN WAS A HAVEN FOR THE KU KLUX KLAN.

SO THAT PLACE HAD A LITTLE BIT MORE RESONANCE.

IT WAS JUST SO IN YOUR FACE,

THERE WAS NO REAL HIDING THE FACT.

YOU KNOW, WHAT BLACK STANDS FOR IN WHITE AMERICA

AND WHAT WHITE STANDS FOR IN BLACK AMERICA

ARE ALL LOADED WITH OUR DEEPEST PSYCHOLOGICAL PERVERSIONS

AND FEARS AND LONGINGS.

MOST OF THE PIECES, I GUESS,

HAVE TO DO WITH EXCHANGES OF POWER,

ATTEMPTS TO STEAL POWER AWAY FROM OTHERS.

I WAS TRACING OUTLINES OF PROFILES,

YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT PHYSIOGNOMY

AND RACIST SCIENCES AND MINSTRELSY

AND SHADOW AND THE DARK SIDE OF THE SOUL.

AND I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT BLACK PAPER HERE.

AND I WAS MAKING SILHOUETTE PAINTINGS,

BUT THEY WEREN'T THE SAME THING.

AND IT SEEMED LIKE THE MOST OBVIOUS ANSWER,

IT TOOK ME FOREVER TO COME TO,

WHICH WAS JUST TO MAKE A CUT

IN THE SURFACE OF THIS BLACK THING.

YOU KNOW, I HAD THIS BLACK PAPER AND IF I JUST MADE A CUT IN IT,

I WAS CREATING A HOLE.

YOU KNOW, IT WAS LIKE THE WHOLE WORLD WAS IN THERE FOR ME.

I'VE ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED IN THE MELODRAMATIC,

AND SORT OF OUTRAGEOUS GESTURES.

I LOVE HISTORY PAINTING,

AND THIS ARTISTIC PAINTERLY CONCEIT,

WHICH IS TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE A PAINTING A STAGE

AND TO THINK OF YOUR CHARACTERS

OR YOUR PORTRAITS OR WHOMEVER, AS CHARACTERS ON THAT STAGE...

AND TO FREEZE FRAME A MOMENT THAT IS FULL OF

PAIN AND BLOOD AND GUTS AND DRAMA AND GLORY.

THIS WORK IS TWO PARTS RESEARCH

AND ONE PART PARANOID HYSTERIA.

IT'S CALLED "INSURRECTION."

OUR TOOLS WERE RUDIMENTARY, YET WE PRESSED ON.

AN IMAGE OF A SLAVE REVOLT IN THE ANTEBELLUM SOUTH,

WHERE THE HOUSE SLAVES GOT AFTER THEIR MASTER WITH

THEIR UTENSILS OF EVERYDAY LIFE.

AND, REALLY, IT STARTED WITH A SKETCH OF A SERIES OF SLAVES

DISEMBOWELING THE MASTER WITH A SOUP LADLE.

MY REFERENCE IN MY MIND WAS THE SURGICAL THEATER PAINTINGS

OF THOMAS EAKINS.

OVERHEAD PROJECTORS CREATED A SPACE

WHERE THE VIEWER'S SHADOW WOULD ALSO BE PROJECTED INTO THE SCENE

SO THAT MAYBE THEY WOULD, YOU KNOW, BECOME IMPLICATED.

OVERHEAD PROJECTORS ARE A DIDACTIC TOOL.

THEY'RE A SCHOOLROOM TOOL

SO THEY'RE ABOUT -- I MEAN, IN MY THINKING --

THEY'RE ABOUT CONVEYING FACTS.

THE WORK THAT I DO

IS ABOUT PROJECTION FICTIONS INTO THOSE FACTS.

I BEGAN TO LOVE THE KIND OF SELF-PROMOTION

SURROUNDING THE WORK OF THE SILHOUETTE ARTIST.

YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP IN DIFFERENT TOWNS

AND ADVERTISE THEIR SKILLS

IN SOMETIMES VERY OVERBLOWN LANGUAGE

DESCRIBING THEIR INCREDIBLE SKILLS.

YOU KNOW, ABLE TO CUT, Y KNOW, IN LESS THAN A MINUTE,

YOU KNOW, 10 SECONDS FOR YOUR SITTING

FOR YOU LIKENESS, ACCURATE LIKENESSES.

AND I'D ALSO BEGUN TO QUESTION THIS WHOLE IDEA

OF ACCURATE LIKENESSES.

THE WORK TAKES ON THIS NARRATIVE STRUCTURE,

CREATES ALL THE ELEMENTS OF THE STORY.

AND I JUST NEED THE VIEWER,

LIKE AN AUTHOR NEEDS A READER,

TO FILL IN THE REST OF THE TENSION OF THE STORY.

THIS IS A BOOK I MADE IN 1997 CALLED "FREEDOM, A FABLE"

"A CURIOUS INTERPRETATION OF THE WIT OF A NEGRESS

IN TROUBLED TIMES."

THE NEGRESS, AS A TERM THAT I APPLY TO MYSELF,

IS, YOU KNOW, A REAL AND ARTIFICIAL CONSTRUCT.

EVERYTHING I'M DOING IS TRYING TO SKIRT THE LINE

BETWEEN FICTION AND REALITY.

IT'S NOT JUST EXAMINATION OF RACE RELATIONS IN AMERICA TODAY.

I MEAN, THAT'S A PART OF IT.

IT'S PART OF BEING AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMAN ARTIST.

BUT IT'S ABOUT HOW DO YOU MAKE REPRESENTATIONS

OF YOUR WORLD GIVEN WHAT YOU'VE BEEN GIVEN?

Smith: THERE AREN'T COMMEMORATIVE SCULPTURES

FOR WITCHES.

SO THEN I THOUGHT, WELL,

I WANTED TO MAKE THESE WOMEN ON PYRES.

THEIR ARMS ARE OUT LIKE CHRIST, YOU KNOW, SAYING,

"WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"

THEY SHOULD BE IN ALL THESE TOWN IN EUROPE.

YOU KNOW, SO NO ONE HAS NEEDED IT IN THEIR TOWN YET, BUT...

BUT, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT I COULD HAVE --

YEAH, I'LL JUST MAKE THEM ANYWAY.

ART IS SOMETHING THAT MOVES FROM YOUR INSIDES

INTO THE PHYSICAL WORLD.

AND AT THE SAME TIME,

IT'S JUST A REPRESENTATION OF YOUR INSIDES

IN A DIFFERENT FORM.

BASICALLY, I THINK ART IS -- IT'S JUST A WAY TO THINK.

YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE STANDING IN THE WIND AND LETTING IT PULL YOU

WHATEVER DIRECTION IT WANTS TO GO.

AND, YOU KNOW, THINGS START SAYING,

"PAY ATTENTION TO THIS AND MAKE THIS."

I THINK WHEN I WAS IN SCHOOL IT WAS

VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO LEARN HOW TO READ,

AND SO I JUST HAD TO LEARN FROM LOOKING AT THINGS.

I A SAW A PICTURE IN THE LOUVRE OF GENEVIEVE

WITH THE -- SITTING WITH THE WOLVES AND THE LAMBS.

AND GENEVIEVE IS LIKE THE SAVIOR OF PARIS.

SO I DREW MY FRIEND GENEVIEVE AS THE GENEVIEVE.

THEN I CUT UP AND MADE CARTOONS OUT OF HER.

THEN I MADE SCULPTURES AFTERWARDS.

FIRST I MADE A GENEVIEVE

WHERE SHE'S JUST STANDING NEXT TO A WOLF.

AND THEN I MADE "RAPTURE,"

WHERE THE WOMAN'S WALKING OUT OF THE WOLF.

THIS IS HER RESURRECTION.

I JUST HAVE THIS INVENTORY OF IMAGES,

AND I CAN START MIXING THEM UP.

AND IF YOU MAKE THEM LIKE A KIND OF CHARACTER,

THEY GET TO LIVE AGAIN.

THEY GET TO HAVE THIS LIFE OUTSIDE OF JUST ONE VERSION.

I HAVE ONE STANDING GENEVIEVE.

YOU KNOW, AND I JUST CUT HER UP OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

THEN RECONFIGURING IT AND SORT OF SMOOTHING THE SMS OUT.

THIS COULD HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF HEAT,

YOU KNOW, JUST TO SMOOTH OUT SLIGHTLY.

A LOT OF TIMES, I GO INTO THE MOLDS

AND JUST MAKE PAPIER-MACHE SCULPTURES.

AND THEN YOU CAN CUT THEM UP REALLY EASILY

AND, YOU KNOW, PUT THEM BACK TOGETHER.

AND WAX IS MUCH MORE COMPLICATED.

AND WE SPEND, YOU KNOW,

ENDLESS QUANTITIES OF TIME TRYING TO FIX THEM.

IT WOULD BE MUCH FASTER, IN A WAY,

JUST TO CAST ANOTHER PERSON AND REDO IT.

BUT I DON'T KNOW, IT'S JUST FUNNY TO ME,

TO MAKE IT ALL KEEP COMING OUT OF THE SAME SCULPTURE.

THEN THIS I'LL MAKE IN ALUMINUM.

AND THEY'LL GO ON THESE SORT OF WOOD CRUTCHES.

SO IT WILL KIND OF LEAN BACK.

UM, IT WILL LEAN BACK A BIT LIKE THAT.

AND THEN IT WILL BE ON THESE, SORT OF FLOATING IN AIR.

TO ME THERE'S SOMETHING INTERESTING ABOUT SCULPTURE

OR SOMETHING HOVERING OFF THE GROUND

OR HAVING THIS, LIKE,

A DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIP TO THE GROUND.

IT COULD BE LIKE THAT.

OR IT CAN BE LIKE THAT.

Man: ABOUT 5 MINUTES.

Walker: OH, THAT'S GREAT.

IT'S GOING TO BECOME A DEAD WITCH UNDER A PILE OF WOOD.

YOU KNOW, AND THEN I THOUGHT I'D LIKE ABOUT THE --

THE WICKED WITCH IN THE "WIZARD OF OZ"

BECAUSE SHE'S UNDER THE HOUSE.

SO I THOUGHT, WELL, I'M JUST UNDER A WOOD PILE.

WHEN I WAS A KID, MY FATHER HAD

MY GRANDMOTHER'S DEATH MASK.

SHE DIED, LIKE, ABOUT 20 YEARS BEFORE I WAS BORN.

THEN WHEN MY FATHER DIED, MY SISTER, BEBE, AND I

MADE A DEATH MASK OF HIS HEAD AND HANDS.

Woman: DO YOU WANT TO SIT DOWN?

Woman: KIKI, SIT RIGHT UP.

Smith: AND THEN WHEN MY SISTER DIED, THEN I WENT BACK

AND I MADE A DEATH MASK OF HER HANDS AND HEAD.

AND SO I HAVE, LIKE, THREE GENERATIONS OF DEATH MASKS.

THAT'S PRETTY GOOD.

WE WERE A LITTLE BIT LIKE THE ADDAMS FAMILY.

WE LIVED IN THIS BIG HOUSE AND THERE WAS A GRAVESTONE

WITH OUR NAME IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE,

AND, UM,

WITH THIS ENORMOUS SCULPTURE IN THE BACK OF THE HOUSE.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE WERE REALLY UNPOPULAR.

AND THE KIDS WOULD SAY I WAS A WITCH.

AND MY FATHER HAD A BEARD AND A PORSCHE,

AND WE WERE LIKE MORTIFIED, EMBARRASSED,

YOU KNOW, THAT HE HAD A CAR LIKE THAT

AND DIDN'T HAVE A BIG, WOODY STATION WAGON.

WE MADE MOSTLY PAPER MODELS FOR HIM,

LIKE THOUSANDS OF TETRAHEDRON-, OCTAHEDRON-FLATTENED MODELS.

AND THEN WE WOULD SIT AND PUT THEM TOGETHER

AFTER SCHOOL EVERY DAY.

IN MY FAMILY, THERE WAS ALWAYS A KIND OF MORBIDITY.

MY FATHER WOULD ALWAYS SAY THAT IT'S IRISH CATHOLIC.

ONE WHOLE PART OF OUR HOUSE WAS ALL

MY FATHER'S PARENTS' CLOTHING,

ALL FROM, YOU KNOW, THE LATE 1800s.

AND TEETH, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE'S DENTURES.

IT WAS ALL, YOU KNOW, LOTS OF DEATH, DEATH EVERYWHERE.

SO.

YOU KNOW, I SPENT A COUPLE OF YEARS DRAWING DEAD ANIMALS.

I HAD THIS VISION OF

THAT I WAS SUPPOSED TO MAKE ANOTHER NOAH'S ARK,

BUT IT WAS OF DEAD ANIMALS.

THIS WAS WHEN MY CAT DIED.

THAT I MADE ALL THESE SORT OF PIETA,

SORT OF SELF-PORTRAIT PIETA

OF ME HOLDING MY DEAD CAT.

I'VE MADE LIKE 50 BILLION PRINTS OF DEAD ANIMALS.

THEN I THINK, "HM, HOW COME I OWN ALL THOSE PRINTS STILL?"

MY BIG INVESTMENT IN MY FUTURE.

OH, JUST CALM DOWN.

VERY EASY TO CATCH.

AH, NO, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO GO DOWN, YOU DUMB BIRD.

OH, COME HERE.

I THINK I REALLY LOVE PRINT MAKING.

IT'S JUST THIS SCRATCHY, SCRATCHY, SCRATCHY MOTION

THAT I LIKE THE BEST.

Man: THE PLATE IS SO WARM, IT DRIES THE STUFF RIGHT AWAY.

IF YOU WERE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE WAY SHE WORKS,

THIS IS JUST NORMAL,

BECAUSE EVERY FIBER OF HER BODY IS ABOUT ART.

SHE CAN'T DO ANYTHING BUT WHAT SHE DOES.

Smith: MY FATHER TAUGHT US TO TRUST OUR INTUITION.

YOU KNOW, MY MOTHER WOULD ALWAYS SAY BELIEVE YOUR INTUITION,

THAT ALWAYS YOU GET IN TROUBLE

WHEN YOU DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO IT.

AND I THINK THAT NOT IN OTHER ASPECTS OF MY PERSONAL LIFE

OR DAILY LIFE DO I DO THAT, BUT ALWAYS IN MY ART I DO THAT.

AND SOMETIMES I DON'T LIKE WHERE MY ART'S GOING OR SOMETHING,

BUT I ALWAYS KNOW THAT --

YOU KNOW, AND I ALWAYS KIND OF GO LIKE,

WHY DO I HAVE TO BE MAKING THESE THINGS

WHERE IT'S EMBARRASSING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

BUT I ALWAYS TRUST THAT,

THAT'S WHAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR ME TO BE DOING.

AND FOR ME, I'M JUST TRYING TO HAVE

AS MANY EXPERIENCES AS I CAN

IN SORT OF PLAYING IN DIFFERENT FORMS.

I LOVE DOMESTIC LIFE.

I LIKE CUPBOARDS AND BLANKETS AND DISHES.

THE FIRST BLANKET I MADE HERE, SHE WAS A WITCH

WITH HER CONSORTS OF ALL HER FAMILIARS, HER ANIMALS.

AND THEN I THOUGHT THIS CAN BE

ANOTHER FEMALE IMAGE WITH ANIMALS.

I AM A BIG VIRGIN MARY FAN.

CATHOLICISM IS ABOUT STORYTELLING,

YOU KNOW, ABOUT REITERATING OVER AND OVER AGAIN

THESE SORT OF MYTHOLOGICAL STORIES.

DOLLS AND THINGS LIKE THAT ARE IN THE REALM OF FICTION.

I'LL CARRY THEM AROUND THEN I'LL BREAK THEIR LEG OFF

OR, YOU KNOW, THEIR HEAD GETS KNOCKED OFF OR SOMETHING.

BUT NONE OF THAT IS REALLY SEEN IN THE END AT ALL,

BUT TO ME, THAT'S REALLY A BIG PART ABOUT MAKING IT.

THIS STUFF MAKES ME NERVOUS BECAUSE THEY'RE SO SPECIFIC.

LIKE A STORY, I DON'T WANT TO BE SO DECLARATIVE LIKE THAT.

YOU KNOW, I'D RATHER MAKE SOMETHING THAT'S VERY OPEN-ENDED

THAT THEN -- LIKE, IT CAN HAVE A MEANING TO ME

BUT THEN IT ALSO CAN HAVE A MEANING TO -- SOMEBODY ELSE

CAN FILL IT UP WITH THEIR MEANING.

OH, IT DOESN'T MATTER.

HI, HOW ARE YOU?

I HAVE NO INNATE ABILITY FOR DOING THINGS PHYSICALLY

AND STUFF, SO I HAVE TO REALLY LEARN AND TRY TO DO IT.

AND, UM, AND TO ME, THAT'S THE PLEASURE IN IT.

A FRIEND OF MINE'S SON DIED, AND I WENT TO A BAPTIST FUNERAL.

AND I'D NEVER BEEN IN A BAPTIST CHURCH.

AND ALL THE WOMEN WORE NURSES' UNIFORMS, ALL THE USHERS.

AND THEY STOOD THERE WITH KLEENEX BOXES.

AND IT WAS SO MOVING TO ME TO SEE, LIKE, GOD'S NURSES.

YOU KNOW, THESE WOMEN, THEY'RE JUST WITH KLEENEX.

LIKE, IT WAS SO SIMPLE AND SO BEAUTIFUL.

AND I THOUGHT ABOUT SAINTS, LIKE LITTLE SAINT SCULPTURES

OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

AND ALSO THEY MAKE EACH ONE UNIQUE.

THE MORE YOU MANIPULATE IT,

THE MORE ACTUAL LIFE YOU PUT INTO IT.

LIKE, I THINK PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT IF YOU SAY

YOU DON'T HAVE ANY, LIKE, LIKE GENETICALLY INNATE ABILITY

FOR MAKING THINGS.

LIKE, THEY GO, "OH, NO, THAT'S NOT TRUE, YOU DO."

PEOPLE LIKE THIS FANTASY OF, LIKE, ARTISTS ARE CREATING

OR, YEAH, HAVING THIS, LIKE, INSPIRATION ALL THE TIME.

AND SO FOR ME, I THINK WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE FOUNDRY ALSO

IS IT'S WORK.

YOU KNOW, LIKE, 90% OF IT IS THAT YOU HAVE TO COME HERE

AND, LIKE, YOU KNOW, FILE OUT YOUR BAD MISTAKES

AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

OR IT GIVES YOU THIS ENORMOUS FREEDOM

IN JUST FILING AND DOING THINGS LIKE THAT FOR HOURS ON END.

LIKE, I ALWAYS KNOW WHAT TO DO.

I NEVER HAVE A MOMENT IN MY LIFE WHEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

I ALWAYS KNOW THERE'S SOME FILING TO DO, YOU KNOW.

Suh: ONCE MY FORTUNE TELLER TOLD ME THAT I HAVE FIVE HORSES.

THAT MEANS THAT I TRAVEL A LOT

SO I'M BASICALLY DESTINED TO LEAVE HOME

AND LIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE.

I THINK I WANTED TO LEAVE HOME BECAUSE OF MY FATHER.

HE'S A SUCCESSFUL PAINTER.

SOMEHOW I FELT THAT HIS FAME OVERSHADOWED ME.

AND I WANTED TO DO MY OWN THING.

YOU KNOW, NEW YORK IS CRAZY.

REALLY, REALLY NOISY.

AND I COULDN'T SLEEP THAT WELL.

AND I WAS THINKING WHEN WAS

MY LAST TIME TO HAVE A REALLY GOOD SLEEP.

AND THAT WAS BACK IN KOREA.

SO I THOUGHT, LIKE, UM, HOW AM I GOING TO BRING THAT SPACE.

PHYSICALLY, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

SO I CAME UP WITH THIS IDEA OF TRANSPORTABLE FABRIC.

I WANT TO CARRY MY HOUSE, MY HOME, WITH ME ALL THE TIME,

LIKE A SNAIL.

MY HOUSE PROJECT, "SEOUL HOME/L.A.

HOME,"

IS THE REPLICA OF THE INTERIOR OF MY PARENTS' HOUSE.

I GREW UP IN THE HOUSE.

IT'S A VERY TRADITIONAL KOREAN HOUSE.

MY FATHER BUILT THE EXACT REPLICA OF THIS FAMOUS

TRADITIONAL BUILDING.

I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO SIT DOWN AND CRY FOR HOME.

I JUST WANTED TO MORE ACTIVELY DEAL WITH THE ISSUES OF LONGING.

MY MOM HELPED ME TO FIND NATIONAL TREASURES.

BASICALLY PEOPLE WHO KEEP TRADITIONAL TECHNIQUES,

CRAFTSMANSHIP, AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THOSE LADIES TAUGHT ME HOW TO

SEW CERTAIN SEAMS.

THERE'S AN EXPRESSION IN KOREA, "YOU WALK THE HOUSE."

PEOPLE ACTUALLY DISASSEMBLE THE HOUSE

AND THEN REBUILD IN A DIFFERENT LOCATION.

SO I HAD TO MAKE SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN PUT IN A SUITCASE

AND BRING IT WITH ME ALL THE TIME.

I WAS A ABLE TO DISCOVER SO MANY THINGS WHEN I WAS MEASURING.

AND THAT WAS A REALLY PERSONAL

AND KIND OF EMOTIONAL EXPERIENCE.

YOU OFTEN FIND LITTLE MARKS THAT YOU DID WHEN YOU WERE A KID.

AND THAT BRINGS ALL THE MEMORIES OF YOUR CHILDHOOD.

AND WHEN YOU GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS,

THE SPACE BECOMES, REALLY, PART OF YOU.

I REALLY LF2E THIS IDEA

OF MY ART BECOMES A PART OF THE ARCHITECTURE.

IT STARTED FROM MY INTEREST IN THE NOTION OF SPACE,

PARTICULARLY THIS NOTION OF PERSONAL SPACE,

OR INDIVIDUAL SPACE.

SEOUL IS A VERY CROWDED CITY.

AND ON THE STREET, PEOPLE BUMP INTO EACH OTHER.

AND, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY COULD JUST, YOU KNOW,

HIT YOUR SHOULDER.

AND THAT'S NORMAL.

BUT I REALIZE THAT'S DIFFERENT HERE.

SO MY PERCEPTION OF THIS PERSONAL SPACE

HAS, I THINK, CHANGED.

IT WAS JUST FOR ME VERY NATURAL

TO THINK ABOUT THE INTERPERSONAL SPACE,

THE SPACE BETWEEN PEOPLE.

AND SO THAT'S HOW

THIS IDEA OF AN INDIVIDUAL AND A COLLECTIVE CAME IN.

I INTENTIONALLY CHOSE THAT POSE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THEIR, AT THE FIGURES' FACIAL EXPRESSIONS,

THEY DON'T LOOK OPPRESSED.

SO THEIR HANDS ARE LIKE KIND OF POSITIVE GESTURE.

BUT WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS ACTUALLY JUST BEARING WEIGHT.

AND I DON'T REALLY MAKE ANY, UM, STATEMENT ON THAT.

IT'S JUST REALLY UP TO THE VIEWER.

I WAS ASKED TO DO SOME PUBLIC SCULPTURE

IN THIS PUBLIC PLACE.

AND I STARTED TO THINK ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS, PUBLIC SPACE,

AND WHAT'S THE MEANING OF PUBLIC ART OR MONUMENT.

I TRIED TO RETHINK THIS WHOLE NOTION OF A MONUMENT.

WHEN YOU PUT THIS STATUE UP ON ME,

MAKE SURE THAT IS POLISHED VERY WELL.

I WANT IT TO BE VERY SHINY.

Suh: USUALLY, IT'S

A BIGGER-THAN-LIFE SIZE INDIVIDUAL,

ILLUSTRIOUS FIGURES.

BUT WHAT I DID WAS I TOOK IT DOWN

AND MAKE IT SMALLER

AND MAKE IT INTO MULTIPLES.

I JUST WANT TO RECOGNIZE ANONYMOUS, EVERYDAY LIFE,

PEOPLE WHO PASS THAT SPACE.

FOR ME IT WAS MORE IMPORTANT, ACTUALLY,

COMING FROM KOREA TO THE UNITED STATES.

AND THAT KIND OF DISPLACEMENT, THE CULTURAL DISPLACEMENT,

ALLOWS ME TO COMPARE TWO DIFFERENT CULTURES.

SO I WAS ABLE TO ACTUALLY LOOK BACK AND THINK ABOUT

THESE ISSUES OF THE INDIVIDUAL AND THE COLLECTIVE.

I SCANNED THE PORTRAIT OF 60 STUDENTS

FROM MY HIGH SCHOOL YEAR BOOK INTO THE COMPUTER.

AND I PUT MY FACE FIRST,

AND THE REST SUPERIMPOSED ON THE TOP OF EACH OTHER.

SO YOU CREATED THIS AVERAGE OF ONE CLASS.

IN A WAY, IT'S A SELF-PORTRAIT.

AND I COLLECT YEARBOOKS FROM 1917 TO '93,

OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

AND I SEE THE SAME FACE FROM DIFFERENT YEARBOOKS.

SO MAYBE WE ARE NOT THAT UNIQUE.

I WAS CURIOUS WHAT WE SHARE AND WHAT WE DON'T.

AND HOW THESE SORT OF INDIVIDUALS CONVERGE.

THE WHOLE KOREAN SOCIETY

IS VIRTUALLY BASED ON THIS KIND OF MILITARISTIC,

VERY HIERARCHICAL STRUCTURE.

WHEN YOU FINISH YOUR ELEMENTARY SCHOOL,

YOU ENTER MIDDLE SCHOOL IN KOREA.

THAT'S PROBABLY AGE OF 13.

AND THEN YOU SHAVE YOUR HAIR

AND THEN HAVE UNIFORM AND THE CAP.

AND I THINK IT BECAME SOME KIND OF TRAUMA FOR MOST OF THE KIDS.

AND ALSO YOU WERE CALLED BY NUMBERS.

NUMBER 37 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

MY NUMBER WAS FORTY...

46.

OKAY.

READY?

YEAH.

KOREANS, THEY ALL HAVE THIS KIND OF NOSTALGIA,

THIS KIND OF PERSONAL ATTACHMENT TO THE UNIFORM.

I MEAN, IT'S A FUNNY THING ABOUT THE UNIFORM

BECAUSE WE HATED TO WEAR THAT UNIFORM.

IT WAS VERY STRICT.

AND IF YOU DON'T FOLLOW THAT UNIFORM, YOU WERE PUNISHED.

BUT WE TRIED OUR BEST TO DIFFERENTIATE

OUR UNIFORM FROM ONE ANOTHER.

FROM THE MOMENT THAT YOU'RE BORN,

YOU KNOW THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN THE MILITARY

BECAUSE EVERYBODY HAS TO GO.

SO THAT'S A GREAT DEAL OF THE KOREAN MAN'S IDENTITY.

I WAS IN THE ARMY FOR ALMOST TWO YEARS.

IT WAS QUITE AN IMPORTANT PART OF MY WHOLE LIFE,

AND I THINK IT JUST COMES OUT IN MY WORK.

I FOUND THIS ARMY SURPLUS STORE,

AND THE OWNER HAPPENED TO BE THIS OLD KOREAN GUY.

AND HE GAVE A LOT OF FREE DOG TAGS

AND ALLOWED ME TO USE THIS SPECIAL TYPEWRITER

TO TYPE DOG TAGS, YOU KNOW, LETTERS AND NUMBERS.

EVERY MAN TALKS ABOUT THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE IN THE MILITARY,

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE A DRINK,

AND THEY'RE UNBELIEVABLE STORIES.

I WAS REALLY GOOD AT MANY THINGS.

I WAS SHARPSHOOTER.

AND I HAD A BLACK BELT BEFORE THE MILITARY.

AND I COULD RUN REALLY FAST AND I WAS VERY HEALTHFUL.

BUT THE PROGRAM WAS BASICALLY

PUSH YOUR PSYCHOLOGICAL AND THE PHYSICAL

TO EXTREME SO ACTUALLY YOU CAN KILL SOMEONE.

I REALLY SORT OF EXPERIENCED WHAT IT MEANS TO BE DEHUMANIZED.

SO FOR ME, LIKE, EVERYTHING WAS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.

IN MY WORK, I CAN LET OTHER PEOPLE SEE THINGS DIFFERENTLY.

I THINK THIS DESPERATE SENSE OF DISPLACEMENT

GIVES ME A SPACE TO HAVE SOME KIND OF

CRITICAL DISTANCE TO EVERYTHING.

♫WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT JESUS?♫

♫I KNOW HE'S ALL RIGHT♫

♫WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT JESUS?♫

♫I KNOW HE'S ALL RIGHT♫

♫I KNOW HE'S ALL RIGHT♫

♫HE'S GONNA RETURN ONE DAY♫

♫YES, HE'S GONNA RETURN ONE DAY♫

Hancock: I GREW UP IN A VERY RELIGIOUS FAMILY.

THERE WERE SEVERAL MINISTERS IN MY FAMILY.

YOU KNOW, IT WAS A SENSE OF COMMUNITY.

IT WAS FILLED WITH BEAUTIFUL STORIES

AND GREAT MUSIC.

AND THOSE STORIES ARE THINGS

THAT YOU CAN JUST KIND OF TAKE ALONG IN YOUR POCKET

AND TAKE OUT WHENEVER YOU NEED THEM.

I THOUGHT I WANTED TO BE A COMIC BOOK ARTIST,

BUT OVER TIME, YOU KNOW, I BECAME INTERESTED

IN DIFFERENT KINDS OF ART.

BUT I NEVER LOST THAT LOVE FOR THAT KIND OF STORYTELLING,

YOU KNOW, THIS IDEA OF SUPERHEROES

AND THIS PANEL-BY-PANEL NARRATIVE.

I LIKE TO PICK LANGUAGE THAT HAS A CERTAIN KIND OF A CADENCE.

AND I LIKE TO PICK WORDS THAT HAVE DOUBLE MEANINGS,

OR IF YOU TAKE A LETTER AWAY,

IT'LL BE MAYBE EVEN AN OPPOSITE WORD.

SOMETIMES WORDS EXPLODE,

AND IT'S JUST ABOUT EACH INDIVIDUAL LETTER.

OH, COOL.

SEE, I'M GOING PUT MORE COLOR IN THESE,

THEY'RE NOT FINISHED.

THAT, OH, I WANT THAT ONE.

THAT ONE'S FUNNY.

Girl: WHAT IS IT?

Hancock: MOUNDS ARE THESE HALF-HUMAN, HALF-PLANT MUTANTS

THAT CAME TO LIFE ABOUT 50,000 YEARS AGO

WHEN AN APE-MAN MASTURBATED IN A FIELD OF FLOWERS.

HIS HUMAN PARTS ARE COMMINGLING WITH THE PLANT PARTS.

AND LIKE IT'S STARTING TO BUBBLE AND BOIL

AND SOMETHING'S ABOUT TO SPROUT OUT OF THIS MESS.

AND THAT'S THE MOUNDS.

THE STORY COMES TO ME AS VISIONS.

AFTER I REALIZED WHAT MOUNDS WERE,

I HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS FOR MYSELF.

SO WHERE DO THEY COME FROM?

HOW TALL ARE THEY?

DO THEY EAT?

LIKE, JUST ALL OF THESE TYPES OF THINGS.

AND IN ASKING A QUESTION, YOU CAN THEN

ALMOST HAVE, LIKE, AN EPIPHANY.

AND FROM THERE, YOU JUST KEEP GOING,

AND IT ACTUALLY SNOWBALLS.

AND TO ME THAT'S WHAT THE VISION IS ALL ABOUT.

THIS PAINTING HERE IS CALLED "BY AND BY."

AND THIS IS THE LAST IN A SERIES OF PAINTINGS

THAT ARE ABOUT THE LIFE OF DEATH OF MOUND #1.

AND HIS NAME WAS "THE LEGEND."

AND THE SKELETON OF MOUND #1 HAS BEEN LEFT IN THE FOREST.

AND ALL OF THE FOREST ANIMALS,

AND EVEN SOME ANIMALS THAT AREN'T FROM THE FOREST,

HAVE COME TO GRIEVE AND TO PAY THEIR RESPECTS.

I'VE ALWAYS LIKED THE STORY OF NOAH'S ARK

AND THE IDEA OF ALL OF THESE ANIMALS

THAT PUT THEIR DIFFERENCES ASIDE

TO COEXIST IN THIS ONE SPACE.

AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE.

ALL OF THE ANIMALS FROM AROUND THE WORLD HAVE GATHERED TOGETHER

TO PAY HOMAGE TO THIS GREAT CREATURE.

WHEN YOU SEE BLACK AND WHITE OR WORDS WITHIN PAINTINGS,

IT'S LOID.

AND LOID IS KIND OF A FATHER TYPE OF AN ENERGY.

AND HE'S ALSO ALL ABOUT KIND OF BLACK AND WHITE,

THERE'S NO IN BETWEEN.

PAINTER IS A SPIRIT ENERGY

WHO IS KIND OF A MOTHERING TYPE OF AN ENERGY.

ANY TIME YOU SEE COLORS WITHIN THE PAINTINGS,

THAT'S AS A RESULT OF PAINTER'S PRESENCE.

A LOT OF IT COMES BACK TO MY MOTHER.

SHE IS PAINTER AND SHE IS LOID WRAPPED UP INTO ONE.

YOU KNOW, SHE IS THE SMILING FACE OF PAINTER.

SHE IS THE COLOR THAT YOU GET FROM PAINTER.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME,

SHE WAS STERN.

WHEN SHE SPOKE HER WORD, YOU HAD TO LISTEN.

SO SHE WAS ALSO LOID.

Woman: A LOT OF HIS ART, I THINK,

IS WHAT HE HAS SEEN OVER THE YEARS, OVER HIS CHILDHOOD.

SOME OF THE HURTFUL THINGS, I THINK.

AND HE WANTED TO GET IN THERE AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

AND I THINK HE HAS CREATED

SOMEONE TO DO THAT,

AND THAT HAS BECOME HIS TORPEDO PERSON.

Hancock: TORPEDO BOY IS KIND OF MY ALTER EGO.

AND I CREATED HIM WHEN I WAS, I'D SAY, IN THE FOURTH GRADE.

HE CAN FLY, HE CAN LIFT THINGS.

HE'S A SUPERHERO.

AND HE'S SUPER STRONG, EXCEPT HE HAS AN INFLATED EGO.

Briley: I THINK EVENTUALLY HE WILL REALLY FIND OUT

WHO CAN ACTUALLY SOLVE IT ALL.

AND THAT GOES RIGHT BACK TO HIS ROOTS AND TO THE BIBLE.

Hancock: PAINTER AND LOID, WITH THEIR SON TORPEDO BOY,

IS A LOT LIKE THE HOLY TRINITY.

YOU KNOW, GOD SENT HIS SON DOWN TO SAVE THE EARTH.

TORPEDO BOY WAS SENT TO, LIKE, PROTECT THESE MOUND CREATURES

AND TO DO GOOD THINGS.

BUT TORPEDO BOY IS TERRIBLY FLAWED.

HIS PRIDE AND OTHER HUMAN EMOTIONS

GET IN THE WAY OF HIM PERFORMING HIS DUTIES.

HE LOOKS LIKE ME, HE IS ME.

I EVEN I HAVE A TORPEDO BOY OUTFIT THAT I WEAR

WHILE I'M PAINTING.

IN THE SHOW, "IT CAME FROM THE STUDIO FLOOR,"

TORPEDO BOY IS THE PROTAGONIST.

AND WE ARE TAKEN STEP-BY-STEP THROUGH WHERE HE WAS

WHEN MOUND #1 WAS ATTACKED AND KILLED.

SO WE GET TO SEE WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS THE HOLD UP,

WHY DIDN'T HE MAKE IT IN TIME TO SAVE MOUND #1.

IN A WAY, THE SCALE OF THE SHOW IS KIND OF HEROIC,

LIKE THERE'S A GIANT TORPEDO BOY "T" PAINTED ON THE WALL.

BUT HE AROSE AND FELL ALL IN THE SAME SHOW.

IT'S PRETTY PATHETIC.

I TEND TO HAVE AN ENTOURAGE WITH ME WHEREVER I GO.

NOT NECESSARILY PEOPLE, BUT OBJECTS.

I HAVE A COLLECTION OF GROCERY LISTS, PLASTIC TOPS,

AMATEUR PAINTINGS, PHOTOS THAT I FIND ON THE GROUND.

BALLOONS -- NEVER HAVE TOO MANY BALLOONS.

THIS BELONGED TO MY GRANDFATHER, WHO WAS A BUTCHER.

AND I GUESS HE USED THIS TO SHIELD HIMSELF FROM OFFAL

AND VARIOUS MEAT JUICES.

I DON'T KNOW, I JUST LIKE TO HAVE ECHOES OF MY FAMILY AROUND.

AND THEN THEY ECHO INTO THE WORK.

EVEN HERE AT HOME,

I LIKE TO HAVE THINGS OUT ALL THE TIME.

I'M A BIG TOY COLLECTOR.

AND I'VE BEEN ACTIVELY TRYING TO

PIECE TOGETHER MY CHILDHOOD BY FINDING ALL OF THOSE TOYS.

IT'S JUST AN EFFORT TO RECONNECT WITH A TIME WHEN I WAS

JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE OPEN AND RECEPTIVE TO THINGS.

AND IT'S JUST GREAT TO HAVE THESE THINGS AROUND ME

AS A REMINDER.

IT'S ALMOST A DANGEROUS OBSESSION.

LIKE, I HAVE TO GET ALL OF THE TOYS.

SINCE SOME OF MY TOYS WERE TAKEN AWAY,

I HAVE TO NOW GET ALL OF THEM BACK.

I HAD ONE WHEN I WAS A KID, BUT IT GOT THROWN AWAY, SO.

Woman: SOME PEOPLE PUT THINGS IN FILES OR FOLDERS

OR STACKS, BUT HE DOESN'T STACK, HE JUST PILES.

I'M GETTING BETTER ABOUT FILING THINGS BECAUSE OF HER.

BECAUSE SHE'S ORGANIZED, SHE CAN DO THAT,

BUT IT'S HARD.

ANYWHERE I MOVE, THESE MOUNDS SEEM TO MOVE WITH ME.

IT'S LIKE IN MY CAR, THERE'S, LIKE, A PILE OF THINGS.

THAT'S A MOUND.

IN MY STUDIO, THERE'S PILES OF THINGS ALL OVER THE PLACE,

AND THAT'S HOW -- I PICK FROM THESE PILES.

WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE PIECES THAT ARE IN THE STUDIO,

I SEE THOSE AS COLORFUL BLASTS OF ENERGY

OR COMMUNICATION FROM MOUNDS.

THESE VISIONS OF HOPE.

SO IN A WAY IT'S LIKE GOD'S PROMISE WITH THE RAINBOW

AFTER THE FLOOD.

IN MY WORK, I FEEL I'M FINALLY BEING ABLE TO BRING TOGETHER

THE WORLDS OF COMIC BOOK NARRATIVES

AND, UM, THE HISTORY OF ABSTRACTION.

TO LEARN MORE ABOUT

"ART:21 -- ART IN THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY,"

AND TO DOWNLOAD THE FREE EDUCATOR'S GUIDE,

PLEASE VISIT PBS ONLINE AT pbs.org.

"ART:21 -- ART IN THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY"

IS AVAILABLE ON VIDEO CASSETTE OR DVD.

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